Re: OT: [Computerworld:] Cisco takes aim at WiMax
see comments bottom posted [below]. thanks, Mike S. On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Carlos Macedo Gomes powerofpri...@gmail.com wrote: Full disclosure: I work for Intel but not in our Wireless Group. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Joseph Sinclair plug-discuss...@stcaz.net wrote: There are some substantial differences between WiMax and WiFi. Agreed. WiFi is 802.11 (b,a,g,n) certified by the WiFi Alliance ( http://www.wi-fi.org/ ) WiMAX is 802.16 (e or d) certified by WiMAX Forum (http://www.wimaxforum.org/ ) But there are also some basic similarities. Both are data communications standards that directly support IPv4 and IPv6. Both bring native IPv4/IPV6 to consumers via radio frequency (i.e., RF, radio, wireless). Only WiMAX does direct IPv4/IPv6 across large distances (i.e. WANs) using RF. LTE brings cellular RF over large distances closer to IPv4/IPv6 but it's still not a pure data communications standard since it has some genetic inheritance of legacy cellular designs and specifications. WiMAX and current celluar services are complementary. WiMAX and LTE are not so complementary due to basic overlaps in tech and in competing business. My elevator pitch would be: Both LTE and WiMAX bring data to RF WANs but LTE is born of cellular (with inheritance) and WiMAX is born of Ethernet/IPv4/IPV6 (with inheritance). The Muni WiFi nets are about providing 802.11 throughout an area. Considering the limited range of the 2.4GHz band used, it's fairly difficult and there tend to be a lot of small dead zones. Not to mention that 802.11 doesn't include roaming, meshing, robust security (e.g., authentication, identification, confidentiality) that are needed for continuous contiguous wide area coverage and secure access. http://www.wimaxmaps.org/ WiMax is a wide-area technology in a completely different (and fully licensed) band. WiMax placements cannot be done by consumers because you have to pay a lot of money for the location-specific license and meet FCC siting requirements. ClearWire holds most (about $3 billion worth transferred from Sprint) of the WiMax licenses in the US. Right now the carriers own the transport part of the WiMAX equation. That doesn't rule out the ability of other businesses from providing the backend now offered (or planned) by carriers. Small groups might be able to create smaller WiMAX (or 802.16) clouds that may or may not mesh w/ the carriers. Wireless Phoenix (http://www.wireless-phoenix.com/) http://www.wireless-phoenix.com/already offers private label WiMAX in Phoenix and other groups should be able to come up w/ various business models leveraging the new technology including free (as in speech and as in beer). That's assuming WiMAX succeeds as a technology... :-) Some folks are already looking into open sourcing the client side of the technology: http://www.linuxwimax.org/Home http://www.openclovis.org/project-poll/project-idea-building-wimax-wireless-broadband-802-16e-product-on-top-of-atca-platform http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/79241-1.php http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/open-source-linux/2009/02/linux-and-wimax-become-friends---finally.html WiMax is more of a competitor to 3G cellular. Some have put it forward as the 4G cellular standard, but it's not clear what will happen there, since Sprint and Intel prefer WiMax, but NGMN chose LTE, and many carriers don't care which is used, as long as everyone uses the same radio standard. I don't see WiMAX directly competing w/ 3G. WiMAX and current 3G celluar services are complementary (data vs cellular). WiMAX and LTE are not so complementary due to tech overlaps (small items) and business overlaps (large items). ymmv, C.G. -- powerofpri...@gmail.com Carlos Macedo Gomes _sic itur ad astra_ http://claimid.com/cmgomes --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss Thanks, CG.I may not have read all of your explanations half as carefully as they were written, but you (and at least some of the others, too) seem to have a good perspective on the big picture, and a good knack for putting it in to terms that help to make it easy (/easiER) to understand.-- Mike Schwartz Glendale AZ schwa...@acm.org --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: [Computerworld:] Cisco takes aim at WiMax
This is interesting this came up just now: here at our motel, we've just installed a WiMax system; unlike ClearWire, it looks like an old Motorola Canopy system, with a rooftop antenna pointed downtown, but performance wise it beats both in terms of latency and raw speed. Part of the solution was to transfer our lines going through a T-1 to VoIP and reduce the number from 14 to 4, though we have to keep a couple for the fire alarm and fax, apparently. We had a lot of problems getting everything working, which came down mostly to a bad radio, but these guys kept working at it until it was fixed, so I have no problem recommending them: http://www.televolve.com -- The phone people, doing VoIP on top of the WiMax company below--ask for Carlos. http://www.westernwimax.net formerly Black Rock Broadband -- Tim, the main tech guy and part-owner, is an ex-Cisco guy. If you buy the phone service, Televolve will handle the ordering of the WiMax service as well as the changeover from the previous carrier. The only part they couldn't handle was the PBX reprogramming and punch block rewiring. I don't think I can recommend the PBX guys, not because he didn't know what he was doing or anything, but at $150/hour, you'd think he was a lawyer or heart surgeon! Mike On Mon, 18 May 2009 17:03:55 -0700, Joseph Sinclair plug-discuss...@stcaz.net said: There are some substantial differences between WiMax and WiFi. The Muni WiFi nets are about providing 802.11 throughout an area. Considering the limited range of the 2.4GHz band used, it's fairly difficult and there tend to be a lot of small dead zones. WiMax is a wide-area technology in a completely different (and fully licensed) band. WiMax placements cannot be done by consumers because you have to pay a lot of money for the location-specific license and meet FCC siting requirements. ClearWire holds most (about $3 billion worth transferred from Sprint) of the WiMax licenses in the US. WiMax is more of a competitor to 3G cellular. Some have put it forward as the 4G cellular standard, but it's not clear what will happen there, since Sprint and Intel prefer WiMax, but NGMN chose LTE, and many carriers don't care which is used, as long as everyone uses the same radio standard. The Cisco thing is about providing the base-station equipment to ClearWire and offering a Linksys box for WiMax-to-WiFi similar to routers already available from various competitors for 3G-cellular-to-WiFi. Hope that helps. Mike Schwartz wrote: This link: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId=339523source=CWNLE_nlt_thisweek_2009-05-18 points to an article (Cisco takes aim at WiMax) from Computerworld. Does this relate to this old thread? : http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080225.172251.1ee32f7a.en.html [OT: (is this OT?) [Tempe ... isn't alone] www.computerworld.com on municipal wifi woes] or, is my ignorance about the term [WiMax] even more than I thought? see also: this other old post: http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080324.232746.84d13a21.en.html [Re: OT: (is this OT?) udpate - [news item: Sebastopol] (was: Re: [...] municipal wifi woes)] (including, the link it has, to a NY Times story...) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: [Computerworld:] Cisco takes aim at WiMax
Full disclosure: I work for Intel but not in our Wireless Group. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Joseph Sinclair plug-discuss...@stcaz.netwrote: There are some substantial differences between WiMax and WiFi. Agreed. WiFi is 802.11 (b,a,g,n) certified by the WiFi Alliance ( http://www.wi-fi.org/ ) WiMAX is 802.16 (e or d) certified by WiMAX Forum ( http://www.wimaxforum.org/ ) But there are also some basic similarities. Both are data communications standards that directly support IPv4 and IPv6. Both bring native IPv4/IPV6 to consumers via radio frequency (i.e., RF, radio, wireless). Only WiMAX does direct IPv4/IPv6 across large distances (i.e. WANs) using RF. LTE brings cellular RF over large distances closer to IPv4/IPv6 but it's still not a pure data communications standard since it has some genetic inheritance of legacy cellular designs and specifications. WiMAX and current celluar services are complementary. WiMAX and LTE are not so complementary due to basic overlaps in tech and in competing business. My elevator pitch would be: Both LTE and WiMAX bring data to RF WANs but LTE is born of cellular (with inheritance) and WiMAX is born of Ethernet/IPv4/IPV6 (with inheritance). The Muni WiFi nets are about providing 802.11 throughout an area. Considering the limited range of the 2.4GHz band used, it's fairly difficult and there tend to be a lot of small dead zones. Not to mention that 802.11 doesn't include roaming, meshing, robust security (e.g., authentication, identification, confidentiality) that are needed for continuous contiguous wide area coverage and secure access. http://www.wimaxmaps.org/ WiMax is a wide-area technology in a completely different (and fully licensed) band. WiMax placements cannot be done by consumers because you have to pay a lot of money for the location-specific license and meet FCC siting requirements. ClearWire holds most (about $3 billion worth transferred from Sprint) of the WiMax licenses in the US. Right now the carriers own the transport part of the WiMAX equation. That doesn't rule out the ability of other businesses from providing the backend now offered (or planned) by carriers. Small groups might be able to create smaller WiMAX (or 802.16) clouds that may or may not mesh w/ the carriers. Wireless Phoenix (http://www.wireless-phoenix.com/) http://www.wireless-phoenix.com/already offers private label WiMAX in Phoenix and other groups should be able to come up w/ various business models leveraging the new technology including free (as in speech and as in beer). That's assuming WiMAX succeeds as a technology... :-) Some folks are already looking into open sourcing the client side of the technology: http://www.linuxwimax.org/Home http://www.openclovis.org/project-poll/project-idea-building-wimax-wireless-broadband-802-16e-product-on-top-of-atca-platform http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/79241-1.php http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/open-source-linux/2009/02/linux-and-wimax-become-friends---finally.html WiMax is more of a competitor to 3G cellular. Some have put it forward as the 4G cellular standard, but it's not clear what will happen there, since Sprint and Intel prefer WiMax, but NGMN chose LTE, and many carriers don't care which is used, as long as everyone uses the same radio standard. I don't see WiMAX directly competing w/ 3G. WiMAX and current 3G celluar services are complementary (data vs cellular). WiMAX and LTE are not so complementary due to tech overlaps (small items) and business overlaps (large items). ymmv, C.G. -- powerofpri...@gmail.com Carlos Macedo Gomes _sic itur ad astra_ http://claimid.com/cmgomes --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
OT: [Computerworld:] Cisco takes aim at WiMax
This link: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId=339523source=CWNLE_nlt_thisweek_2009-05-18 points to an article (Cisco takes aim at WiMax) from Computerworld. Does this relate to this old thread? : http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080225.172251.1ee32f7a.en.html [OT: (is this OT?) [Tempe ... isn't alone] www.computerworld.com on municipal wifi woes] or, is my ignorance about the term [WiMax] even more than I thought? see also: this other old post: http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080324.232746.84d13a21.en.html [Re: OT: (is this OT?) udpate - [news item: Sebastopol] (was: Re: [...] municipal wifi woes)] (including, the link it has, to a NY Times story...) -- Mike Schwartz Glendale AZ schwa...@acm.org --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: [Computerworld:] Cisco takes aim at WiMax
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Mike Schwartz schwa...@acm.org wrote: This link: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId=339523source=CWNLE_nlt_thisweek_2009-05-18 points to an article (Cisco takes aim at WiMax) from Computerworld. Does this relate to this old thread? : http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080225.172251.1ee32f7a.en.html [OT: (is this OT?) [Tempe ... isn't alone] www.computerworld.com on municipal wifi woes] or, is my ignorance about the term [WiMax] even more than I thought? see also: this other old post: http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080324.232746.84d13a21.en.html [Re: OT: (is this OT?) udpate - [news item: Sebastopol] (was: Re: [...] municipal wifi woes)] (including, the link it has, to a NY Times story...) -- Yes, this is a subject for discussion, however, might not be linux specific, really. But it is something for the PLUG open source politicos? The whole discussion of where the cable/telco's are going with regards to providing information access bandwidth seems to be as varied as political ideologies. Sure, it could be managed in a non-profit way, and various muni's have big WiFi. I believe Microsoft's investment is a new technology that expands on airwaves opened recently. One of the big technologies to watch is expected to be National WiFi/WiMax. There is expected to be strong competition between the phone companies and any big wireless breakthrough. In Europe they are less controlled with regards to Voip packet traffic access than America, but the new G2 phones (and the old G1 T-Mobile Hotspot Google phones running the Android system) also provide free Wifi that actually works to automatically provide free Internet services without paying airtime. In 2003, I put in a private enterprise Nomadix in Produce Row in Portland that covered nearly half of the whole SE/Downtown area, which did a http request to ElevenWireless who handled all the billing. It WAS VERY PROFITABLE in the bars/coffee shops and uber renewed industrial artists lofts. But of course, everyone has tried to use the ASU systems (didn't work for me)? -- www.obnosis.com (503)754-4452 Contradictions do not exist. A. Rand --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: [Computerworld:] Cisco takes aim at WiMax
its that old WiMax chestnut again... :) -jmz On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Mike Schwartz schwa...@acm.org wrote: This link: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId=339523source=CWNLE_nlt_thisweek_2009-05-18 points to an article (Cisco takes aim at WiMax) from Computerworld. Does this relate to this old thread? : http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080225.172251.1ee32f7a.en.html [OT: (is this OT?) [Tempe ... isn't alone] www.computerworld.com on municipal wifi woes] or, is my ignorance about the term [WiMax] even more than I thought? see also: this other old post: http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080324.232746.84d13a21.en.html [Re: OT: (is this OT?) udpate - [news item: Sebastopol] (was: Re: [...] municipal wifi woes)] (including, the link it has, to a NY Times story...) -- Mike Schwartz Glendale AZ schwa...@acm.org --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: [Computerworld:] Cisco takes aim at WiMax
There are some substantial differences between WiMax and WiFi. The Muni WiFi nets are about providing 802.11 throughout an area. Considering the limited range of the 2.4GHz band used, it's fairly difficult and there tend to be a lot of small dead zones. WiMax is a wide-area technology in a completely different (and fully licensed) band. WiMax placements cannot be done by consumers because you have to pay a lot of money for the location-specific license and meet FCC siting requirements. ClearWire holds most (about $3 billion worth transferred from Sprint) of the WiMax licenses in the US. WiMax is more of a competitor to 3G cellular. Some have put it forward as the 4G cellular standard, but it's not clear what will happen there, since Sprint and Intel prefer WiMax, but NGMN chose LTE, and many carriers don't care which is used, as long as everyone uses the same radio standard. The Cisco thing is about providing the base-station equipment to ClearWire and offering a Linksys box for WiMax-to-WiFi similar to routers already available from various competitors for 3G-cellular-to-WiFi. Hope that helps. Mike Schwartz wrote: This link: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId=339523source=CWNLE_nlt_thisweek_2009-05-18 points to an article (Cisco takes aim at WiMax) from Computerworld. Does this relate to this old thread? : http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080225.172251.1ee32f7a.en.html [OT: (is this OT?) [Tempe ... isn't alone] www.computerworld.com on municipal wifi woes] or, is my ignorance about the term [WiMax] even more than I thought? see also: this other old post: http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/message/20080324.232746.84d13a21.en.html [Re: OT: (is this OT?) udpate - [news item: Sebastopol] (was: Re: [...] municipal wifi woes)] (including, the link it has, to a NY Times story...) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
