Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
On Dec 3, 2008, at 3:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back then when I researched the issue (about a year or so ago), you had to take the server down to get a consistent backup with the tools provided by MySQL. I haven't updated my research since... ET Setting up a replication slave just for backups is pretty simple. Then you can take down the slave to make a backup at any time without affecting the master at all. alex PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
From: Alex Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 3, 2008, at 3:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back then when I researched the issue (about a year or so ago), you had to take the server down to get a consistent backup with the tools provided by MySQL. I haven't updated my research since... Setting up a replication slave just for backups is pretty simple. Then you can take down the slave to make a backup at any time without affecting the master at all. Yes, the Fine Manual for MySQL talks about that in great detail. But using a replication slave means you need another box, which you don't always have. My personal site does mysqldump -A | gzip -9 $DATE.gz every morning at 0-dark-thirty when no one's using it... which works, but wouldn't work if I had 30G of data and a ton of users using it all the time. Also, if you stop the slave and make a file-based backup without excluding the ib_logfile* files, then restore that backup on another box, then start the server, you get an extraordinarily stupid error message. Sigh. -- Matt G / Dances With Crows The Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress/ There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
On Dec 4, 2008, at 9:00 AM, Matt Graham wrote: From: Alex Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 3, 2008, at 3:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back then when I researched the issue (about a year or so ago), you had to take the server down to get a consistent backup with the tools provided by MySQL. I haven't updated my research since... Setting up a replication slave just for backups is pretty simple. Then you can take down the slave to make a backup at any time without affecting the master at all. Yes, the Fine Manual for MySQL talks about that in great detail. But using a replication slave means you need another box, which you don't always have. My personal site does mysqldump -A | gzip -9 $DATE.gz every morning at 0-dark-thirty when no one's using it... which works, but wouldn't work if I had 30G of data and a ton of users using it all the time. You don't really need another box, just another mysql instance listening on a different port. That would add the i/o overhead of writing your data twice, but if you're short of hardware it might work out. Of course you'd then need to scp/rsync the data files somewhere, since a backup on the same hardware as primary is almost pointless, but you don't need mysql running on 2 boxes. If you use mysqldump, there's some option like --with-lock or --for- backup, or something similar that acquires a global lock before dumping data. That ensures you get a consistent backup, at the cost of cutting off all write access while it's running. My personal site does that as well, since the total dump is only a few hundred MB and takes very little time to run. Also, if you stop the slave and make a file-based backup without excluding the ib_logfile* files, then restore that backup on another box, then start the server, you get an extraordinarily stupid error message. Sigh. If memory serves, that's not completely true. If the other server is configured for different ib logfile sizes (I forget the actual config option name), you'll get an error. If both boxes have the same my.cnf values, it should 'just work'. But, if you've shut mysql down cleanly, those log files don't need to be part of the backup at all and could be excluded. alex PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
Greenplum.com? Obnosis.com BlackBerry Message -Original Message- From: Joshua Zeidner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 21:58:24 To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Subject: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services? you know I do see many of the advantages with Postgres, but the information is patchy. Can you link me some dependable comparisons? Many claim that MySQL is faster. Its not for a personal project, I need to provide real justification to management. The PostGIS extension is one of the major gains on the Postgres side, but MySQL is catching up there. -jmz On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 2:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use Postgres... :) Joshua Zeidner writes: Hello, Has anyone here used MySQL premium services? Did you think they are a good value? -jmz --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
mysqldump isn't a hot backup, it causes locks table and/or row (i cant remember off hand which). There is a myisamhotbackup or something like that for MyISAM tables (why the hell would you use MyISAM?), but for a real table you need the innodb hot backup thing that is commercial, and not cheap. Also, MySQL replication isn't as trivial as you've made it sound in previous posts. A simple master-slave setup is pretty easy, but once you get into more complex setups its definitely not easy. Also, even the master-slave type replication is by no means perfectly reliable, we have to run scripts to keep slaves sync'd with the master as we've had problems with inserts not making it into the slave. Personally, I wish we were using PG at work, but then when it was tried (years ago, before my time) it was found to be slow. Of course, in talking to the principals there, it became clear the box was memory limited, and not tuned at all. PG requires far more tuning than MySQL does. I still like it better though. On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Charles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The final single reason why I went Postgres was backups. Back in the day when I did my research (this may have changed) you could not take a hot backup in MySQL without purchasing a commercial product, as opposite as Postgres that you can simply hot-backup a fully consistent database with pgdump. man mysqldump :-) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
you know I do see many of the advantages with Postgres, but the information is patchy. Can you link me some dependable comparisons? Many claim that MySQL is faster. Its not for a personal project, I need to provide real justification to management. The PostGIS extension is one of the major gains on the Postgres side, but MySQL is catching up there. -jmz On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 2:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use Postgres... :) Joshua Zeidner writes: Hello, Has anyone here used MySQL premium services? Did you think they are a good value? -jmz --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
I shall now make a blanket statement such as; It is easier to setup replication with MySQL. :P --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
Actually we just got through that one... It seems that it is easier to set up, but the supported concepts for replication in PostGres are stronger. PG offered this feature very early on. -jmz On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Charles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I shall now make a blanket statement such as; It is easier to setup replication with MySQL. :P --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
There are many possible reasons why to choose one over another, my specific one is last... I have never run personal tests against any, so I'll repeat you what I have read over the years: one used to be faster, the other one lacked features (depending of who you asked), my understanding is that both are now catching up with each other in performance and features. The final single reason why I went Postgres was backups. Back in the day when I did my research (this may have changed) you could not take a hot backup in MySQL without purchasing a commercial product, as opposite as Postgres that you can simply hot-backup a fully consistent database with pgdump. Besides, MySQL leans more and more towards a commercial product ala Red Had, where Postgres is one of those OSS bastions. I go Postgres (with what I knew then) Enrique Joshua Zeidner writes: you know I do see many of the advantages with Postgres, but the information is patchy. Can you link me some dependable comparisons? Many claim that MySQL is faster. Its not for a personal project, I need to provide real justification to management. The PostGIS extension is one of the major gains on the Postgres side, but MySQL is catching up there. -jmz On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 2:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use Postgres... :) Joshua Zeidner writes: Hello, Has anyone here used MySQL premium services? Did you think they are a good value? -jmz --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
Eh, my last experience with setting up replication with postgres was not very fun. I have used Slony, and pgcluster, and pgpool. Setting up reliable replication with MySQL is a snap, and doesn't require any extra tools or daemons. In the past the biggest advantage of postgres over mysql was that postgres supported triggers, views, etc. But since MySQL 5 I'm not sure what postgres has that MySQL does not. If anything phpMyAdmin is 10 times more useful than pgmyadmin :-) -Charles Joshua Zeidner wrote: Actually we just got through that one... It seems that it is easier to set up, but the supported concepts for replication in PostGres are stronger. PG offered this feature very early on. -jmz On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Charles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I shall now make a blanket statement such as; It is easier to setup replication with MySQL. :P --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The final single reason why I went Postgres was backups. Back in the day when I did my research (this may have changed) you could not take a hot backup in MySQL without purchasing a commercial product, as opposite as Postgres that you can simply hot-backup a fully consistent database with pgdump. man mysqldump :-) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
Back then when I researched the issue (about a year or so ago), you had to take the server down to get a consistent backup with the tools provided by MySQL. I haven't updated my research since... ET Charles Jones writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The final single reason why I went Postgres was backups. Back in the day when I did my research (this may have changed) you could not take a hot backup in MySQL without purchasing a commercial product, as opposite as Postgres that you can simply hot-backup a fully consistent database with pgdump. man mysqldump :-) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PostgreSQL vs. MySQL, was: MySQL premium services?
yep thats in accord with my current views on this space. It seems that when mysql went commercial, certain players in this space immediately converted to PG. But for my issues, we are dealing with support costs, and it seems that MySQL offers a bit more manageability. Many suggest PG over MySQL but I can't find any dependable feature matrix to really back up these views. Unfortunately I think I am dealing more with overzealous PG proselytes than informed users. In my case there are costs X associated with switching off of MySQL, so PG has to offer something in value comparable to X. thanks! -jmz On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are many possible reasons why to choose one over another, my specific one is last... I have never run personal tests against any, so I'll repeat you what I have read over the years: one used to be faster, the other one lacked features (depending of who you asked), my understanding is that both are now catching up with each other in performance and features. The final single reason why I went Postgres was backups. Back in the day when I did my research (this may have changed) you could not take a hot backup in MySQL without purchasing a commercial product, as opposite as Postgres that you can simply hot-backup a fully consistent database with pgdump. Besides, MySQL leans more and more towards a commercial product ala Red Had, where Postgres is one of those OSS bastions. I go Postgres (with what I knew then) Enrique Joshua Zeidner writes: you know I do see many of the advantages with Postgres, but the information is patchy. Can you link me some dependable comparisons? Many claim that MySQL is faster. Its not for a personal project, I need to provide real justification to management. The PostGIS extension is one of the major gains on the Postgres side, but MySQL is catching up there. -jmz On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 2:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use Postgres... :) Joshua Zeidner writes: Hello, Has anyone here used MySQL premium services? Did you think they are a good value? -jmz --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
