Re: DefCon for kids

2011-06-28 Thread Lisa Kachold 
Hi Hans,

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 2:31 AM, der.hans  wrote:
> moin moin,
>
> Sounds like Cathy's daughter is the perfect person for DefCon according to
> Chris' "Why is DefCon like sudoku?" presentation earlier this month.
>
> http://mychildssuitcase.blogspot.com/2011/06/channelling-energy-of-geeky-techy-kids.html

There is a good deal of material presented at DefCon that gives
credence and lip service to breaking laws without consequences.  Youth
are already at a disadvantage since the human brain does not recognize
consequences until around 25 years old, while being required to be
accountable since the age of 18.

I would carefully counsel your daughters and sons about some of what
is presented, the current state of government survelliance in America,
and exactly where and when they have encroached private property and
consequences.   A good example is the back page of 2600 magazine where
jail inmates are given free classified space to write desperately for
penpals from jail for such crimes.

> ciao,
>
> der.hans
> --
> #  http://www.LuftHans.com/        http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/
> #  Science is magic explained. - der.hans
> ---

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Re: DefCon for kids

2011-06-28 Thread Kevin Brown 

Sounds like Cathy's daughter is the perfect person for DefCon according to
Chris' "Why is DefCon like sudoku?" presentation earlier this month.

http://mychildssuitcase.blogspot.com/2011/06/channelling-energy-of-geeky-techy-kids.html


There is a good deal of material presented at DefCon that gives
credence and lip service to breaking laws without consequences.  Youth
are already at a disadvantage since the human brain does not recognize
consequences until around 25 years old, while being required to be
accountable since the age of 18.


This sounds like junk science. Kids as young as 2 and 3 lie to avoid 
getting into trouble which suggests they understand consequences for 
their actions.



I would carefully counsel your daughters and sons about some of what
is presented, the current state of government surveillance in America,
and exactly where and when they have encroached private property and
consequences.   A good example is the back page of 2600 magazine where
jail inmates are given free classified space to write desperately for
penpals from jail for such crimes.

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Re: DefCon for kids

2011-06-28 Thread Jordan Aberle 
DefCon for kids? Why?  Just take them to a regular DefCon...

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Kevin Brown  wrote:

>  Sounds like Cathy's daughter is the perfect person for DefCon according to
>>> Chris' "Why is DefCon like sudoku?" presentation earlier this month.
>>>
>>> http://mychildssuitcase.**blogspot.com/2011/06/**
>>> channelling-energy-of-geeky-**techy-kids.html
>>>
>>
>> There is a good deal of material presented at DefCon that gives
>> credence and lip service to breaking laws without consequences.  Youth
>> are already at a disadvantage since the human brain does not recognize
>> consequences until around 25 years old, while being required to be
>> accountable since the age of 18.
>>
>
> This sounds like junk science. Kids as young as 2 and 3 lie to avoid
> getting into trouble which suggests they understand consequences for their
> actions.
>
>  I would carefully counsel your daughters and sons about some of what
>> is presented, the current state of government surveillance in America,
>>
>> and exactly where and when they have encroached private property and
>> consequences.   A good example is the back page of 2600 magazine where
>> jail inmates are given free classified space to write desperately for
>> penpals from jail for such crimes.
>>
> --**-
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RE: DefCon for kids

2011-06-28 Thread Lee Reynolds 
The human brain doesn't recognize consequences until age 25?  

That sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me, the kind of stuff that is used to 
make excuses for adults acting like overgrown adolescents.  Perhaps the issue 
is not a matter of neurological development, but a matter of parents allowing 
their grown children to persist in a child-like state until they are almost 30. 
 I'm only 38 myself, but I do remember the days when growing up meant you grew 
up.  Maybe you went off to college, maybe you joined the military, maybe you 
lived with your folks but paid serious rent while attending college close to 
home.  But whatever you did, you were expected to be an adult, not a child.  
Today many people in their early 20's are still living with mom and dad as if 
high school never ended.  Allowing someone to persist in that kind of a cocoon 
is a great way to wind up with someone who at first glance does not appear to 
understand consequences, when in truth they've simply never had to function in 
life as a normal adult.




Lee Reynolds
Tech Support Analyst Sr
ASU Advanced Computing Center
GWC-178

480.965.9460 (Office)
480.458.7434 (Mobile)

Have an A2C2 related question or problem?

Just send an email to the following address detailing
the nature of the question or problem and a service request 
will be created automatically:

supp...@hpchelp.asu.edu



-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us on behalf of Kevin Brown
Sent: Tue 6/28/2011 5:17 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: DefCon for kids
 
>> Sounds like Cathy's daughter is the perfect person for DefCon according to
>> Chris' "Why is DefCon like sudoku?" presentation earlier this month.
>>
>> http://mychildssuitcase.blogspot.com/2011/06/channelling-energy-of-geeky-techy-kids.html
>
> There is a good deal of material presented at DefCon that gives
> credence and lip service to breaking laws without consequences.  Youth
> are already at a disadvantage since the human brain does not recognize
> consequences until around 25 years old, while being required to be
> accountable since the age of 18.

This sounds like junk science. Kids as young as 2 and 3 lie to avoid 
getting into trouble which suggests they understand consequences for 
their actions.

> I would carefully counsel your daughters and sons about some of what
> is presented, the current state of government surveillance in America,
> and exactly where and when they have encroached private property and
> consequences.   A good example is the back page of 2600 magazine where
> jail inmates are given free classified space to write desperately for
> penpals from jail for such crimes.
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Re: DefCon for kids

2011-06-28 Thread Lisa Kachold 
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Lee Reynolds  wrote:
> The human brain doesn't recognize consequences until age 25?
>
> That sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me, the kind of stuff that is used
to make excuses for adults acting like overgrown adolescents.  Perhaps the
issue is not a matter of neurological development, but a matter of parents
allowing their grown children to persist in a child-like state until they
are almost 30.  I'm only 38 myself, but I do remember the days when growing
up meant you grew up.  Maybe you went off to college, maybe you joined the
military, maybe you lived with your folks but paid serious rent while
attending college close to home.  But whatever you did, you were expected to
be an adult, not a child.  Today many people in their early 20's are still
living with mom and dad as if high school never ended.  Allowing someone to
persist in that kind of a cocoon is a great way to wind up with someone who
at first glance does not appear to understand consequences, when in truth
they've simply never had to function in life as a normal adult.
>
> 


I am not sure if it would be called "junk" but it's neuroscience backed up
by long behavioral studies and statistics, as well as imaging.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=consequences+brain+age+25&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=1df85bb4ccbea692&biw=900&bih=330

> Lee Reynolds
> Tech Support Analyst Sr
> ASU Advanced Computing Center
> GWC-178
>
> 480.965.9460 (Office)
> 480.458.7434 (Mobile)
>
> Have an A2C2 related question or problem?
>
> Just send an email to the following address detailing
> the nature of the question or problem and a service request
> will be created automatically:
>
> supp...@hpchelp.asu.edu
>
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us on behalf of Kevin
Brown
> Sent: Tue 6/28/2011 5:17 PM
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: DefCon for kids
>
>>> Sounds like Cathy's daughter is the perfect person for DefCon according
to
>>> Chris' "Why is DefCon like sudoku?" presentation earlier this month.
>>>
>>>
http://mychildssuitcase.blogspot.com/2011/06/channelling-energy-of-geeky-techy-kids.html
>>
>> There is a good deal of material presented at DefCon that gives
>> credence and lip service to breaking laws without consequences.  Youth
>> are already at a disadvantage since the human brain does not recognize
>> consequences until around 25 years old, while being required to be
>> accountable since the age of 18.
>
> This sounds like junk science. Kids as young as 2 and 3 lie to avoid
> getting into trouble which suggests they understand consequences for
> their actions.
>
>> I would carefully counsel your daughters and sons about some of what
>> is presented, the current state of government surveillance in America,
>> and exactly where and when they have encroached private property and
>> consequences.   A good example is the back page of 2600 magazine where
>> jail inmates are given free classified space to write desperately for
>> penpals from jail for such crimes.
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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Re: DefCon for kids

2011-06-28 Thread Eric Cope 
There was a book published with the last few years talking about adolescent 
decision making. Adolescents have different value systems making their 
decisions look poor from adults point of view, but actually quite rational. 
It's was titled "the case against adolescence". 

Eric

On Jun 28, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Lisa Kachold  wrote:

> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Lee Reynolds  wrote:
> > The human brain doesn't recognize consequences until age 25?
> >
> > That sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me, the kind of stuff that is used 
> > to make excuses for adults acting like overgrown adolescents.  Perhaps the 
> > issue is not a matter of neurological development, but a matter of parents 
> > allowing their grown children to persist in a child-like state until they 
> > are almost 30.  I'm only 38 myself, but I do remember the days when growing 
> > up meant you grew up.  Maybe you went off to college, maybe you joined the 
> > military, maybe you lived with your folks but paid serious rent while 
> > attending college close to home.  But whatever you did, you were expected 
> > to be an adult, not a child.  Today many people in their early 20's are 
> > still living with mom and dad as if high school never ended.  Allowing 
> > someone to persist in that kind of a cocoon is a great way to wind up with 
> > someone who at first glance does not appear to understand consequences, 
> > when in truth they've simply never had to function in life as a normal 
> > adult.
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> I am not sure if it would be called "junk" but it's neuroscience backed up by 
> long behavioral studies and statistics, as well as imaging.
> 
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=consequences+brain+age+25&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=1df85bb4ccbea692&biw=900&bih=330
> 
> > Lee Reynolds
> > Tech Support Analyst Sr
> > ASU Advanced Computing Center
> > GWC-178
> >
> > 480.965.9460 (Office)
> > 480.458.7434 (Mobile)
> >
> > Have an A2C2 related question or problem?
> >
> > Just send an email to the following address detailing
> > the nature of the question or problem and a service request
> > will be created automatically:
> >
> > supp...@hpchelp.asu.edu
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us on behalf of Kevin Brown
> > Sent: Tue 6/28/2011 5:17 PM
> > To: Main PLUG discussion list
> > Subject: Re: DefCon for kids
> >
> >>> Sounds like Cathy's daughter is the perfect person for DefCon according to
> >>> Chris' "Why is DefCon like sudoku?" presentation earlier this month.
> >>>
> >>> http://mychildssuitcase.blogspot.com/2011/06/channelling-energy-of-geeky-techy-kids.html
> >>
> >> There is a good deal of material presented at DefCon that gives
> >> credence and lip service to breaking laws without consequences.  Youth
> >> are already at a disadvantage since the human brain does not recognize
> >> consequences until around 25 years old, while being required to be
> >> accountable since the age of 18.
> >
> > This sounds like junk science. Kids as young as 2 and 3 lie to avoid
> > getting into trouble which suggests they understand consequences for
> > their actions.
> >
> >> I would carefully counsel your daughters and sons about some of what
> >> is presented, the current state of government surveillance in America,
> >> and exactly where and when they have encroached private property and
> >> consequences.   A good example is the back page of 2600 magazine where
> >> jail inmates are given free classified space to write desperately for
> >> penpals from jail for such crimes.
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
> >
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> (623) 239-3392 Skype
> (623) 688-3392 Google Voice
> 
> HomeSmartInternational.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: DefCon for kids

2011-06-28 Thread Nathan England 
I am of the opinion that science is not always correct, regardless of how
much "study" has been done. Science telling me that the human brain is not
capable of making a decision without considering the consequences of the
decision, yet all our known life came from some primordial ooze, or all
existing matter came about through a one in a billion random chance big
bang, only proves to me that science is not always right. More like the
science is created to cater to someone's agenda.

I specifically remember as a young child considering the consequences of my
actions. Of course, I was also "spanked" as a child! oh no! someone call Dr.
Spock! I think in reality we are trying to make these punk adolescents feel
better by telling them it is not their faults, in order for a baby boomer
society to make up for a lack of discipline in their homes while raising
their children.

just my .02

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:

> There was a book published with the last few years talking about adolescent
> decision making. Adolescents have different value systems making their
> decisions look poor from adults point of view, but actually quite rational.
> It's was titled "the case against adolescence".
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Jun 28, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Lisa Kachold  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Lee Reynolds < 
> lee.reyno...@asu.edu> wrote:
> > The human brain doesn't recognize consequences until age 25?
> >
> > That sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me, the kind of stuff that is
> used to make excuses for adults acting like overgrown adolescents.  Perhaps
> the issue is not a matter of neurological development, but a matter of
> parents allowing their grown children to persist in a child-like state until
> they are almost 30.  I'm only 38 myself, but I do remember the days when
> growing up meant you grew up.  Maybe you went off to college, maybe you
> joined the military, maybe you lived with your folks but paid serious rent
> while attending college close to home.  But whatever you did, you were
> expected to be an adult, not a child.  Today many people in their early 20's
> are still living with mom and dad as if high school never ended.  Allowing
> someone to persist in that kind of a cocoon is a great way to wind up with
> someone who at first glance does not appear to understand consequences, when
> in truth they've simply never had to function in life as a normal adult.
> >
> > 
>
>
> I am not sure if it would be called "junk" but it's neuroscience backed up
> by long behavioral studies and statistics, as well as imaging.
>
>
> <http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=consequences+brain+age+25&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=1df85bb4ccbea692&biw=900&bih=330>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=consequences+brain+age+25&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=1df85bb4ccbea692&biw=900&bih=330
>
> > Lee Reynolds
> > Tech Support Analyst Sr
> > ASU Advanced Computing Center
> > GWC-178
> >
> > 480.965.9460 (Office)
> > 480.458.7434 (Mobile)
> >
> > Have an A2C2 related question or problem?
> >
> > Just send an email to the following address detailing
> > the nature of the question or problem and a service request
> > will be created automatically:
> >
> > supp...@hpchelp.asu.edu
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 
> plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us on behalf of Kevin Brown
> > Sent: Tue 6/28/2011 5:17 PM
> > To: Main PLUG discussion list
> > Subject: Re: DefCon for kids
> >
> >>> Sounds like Cathy's daughter is the perfect person for DefCon according
> to
> >>> Chris' "Why is DefCon like sudoku?" presentation earlier this month.
> >>>
> >>>
> <http://mychildssuitcase.blogspot.com/2011/06/channelling-energy-of-geeky-techy-kids.html>
> http://mychildssuitcase.blogspot.com/2011/06/channelling-energy-of-geeky-techy-kids.html
> >>
> >> There is a good deal of material presented at DefCon that gives
> >> credence and lip service to breaking laws without consequences.  Youth
> >> are already at a disadvantage since the human brain does not recognize
> >> consequences until around 25 years old, while being required to be
> >> accountable since the age of 18.
> >
> > This sounds like junk science. Kids as young as 2 and 3 lie to avoid
> > getting into trouble which suggests they understand

Re: DefCon for kids

2011-06-28 Thread keith smith 

I have not been following this thread until now.  I found the statement "The 
human brain doesn't recognize consequences until age 25?" to be very 
interesting.

I'm a little older. I joined the Marine Corps at 18.  My peers and I understood 
consequences almost from the first moment of entering boot camp.

By 25 most enlisted marines, if they stayed in, would have 7 years in and have 
made it to the rank of E-5 or E-6.  When I was in some made E-5 - Sergeant 
within the fist 4 years.  That put them in a position of authority and 
responsibility, and they were only 21, 22, or 23 years old when they took on 
that responsibility that required a thorough understanding of consequences.

  



Keith Smith

--- On Tue, 6/28/11, Nathan England  wrote:

From: Nathan England 
Subject: Re: DefCon for kids
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Tuesday, June 28, 2011, 8:43 PM

I am of the opinion that science is not always correct, regardless of how much 
"study" has been done. Science telling me that the human brain is not capable 
of making a decision without considering the consequences of the decision, yet 
all our known life came from some primordial ooze, or all existing matter came 
about through a one in a billion random chance big bang, only proves to me that 
science is not always right. More like the science is created to cater to 
someone's agenda. 


I specifically remember as a young child considering the consequences of my 
actions. Of course, I was also "spanked" as a child! oh no! someone call Dr. 
Spock! I think in reality we are trying to make these punk adolescents feel 
better by telling them it is not their faults, in order for a baby boomer 
society to make up for a lack of discipline in their homes while raising their 
children. 

just my .02
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Eric Cope  wrote:

There was a book published with the last few years talking about adolescent 
decision making. Adolescents have different value systems making their 
decisions look poor from adults point of view, but actually quite rational. 
It's was titled "the case against adolescence". 

Eric

On Jun 28, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Lisa Kachold  wrote:




On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Lee Reynolds  wrote:

> The human brain doesn't recognize consequences until age 25?
>
> That sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me, the kind of stuff that is used to 
> make excuses for adults acting like overgrown adolescents.  Perhaps the issue 
> is not a matter of neurological development, but a matter of parents allowing 
> their grown children to persist in a child-like state until they are almost 
> 30.  I'm only 38 myself, but I do remember the days when growing up meant you 
> grew up.  Maybe you went off to college, maybe you joined the military, maybe 
> you lived with your folks but paid serious rent while attending college close 
> to home.  But whatever you did, you were expected to be an adult, not a 
> child.  Today many people in their early 20's are still living with mom and 
> dad as if high school never ended.  Allowing someone to persist in that kind 
> of a cocoon is a great way to wind up with someone who at first glance does 
> not appear to understand consequences, when in truth they've simply never had 
> to function in life as a normal
 adult.


>
> 


I am not sure if it would be called "junk" but it's neuroscience backed up by 
long behavioral studies and statistics, as well as imaging.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=consequences+brain+age+25&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=1df85bb4ccbea692&biw=900&bih=330



> Lee Reynolds
> Tech Support Analyst Sr
> ASU Advanced Computing Center
> GWC-178
>
> 480.965.9460 (Office)
> 480.458.7434 (Mobile)

>
> Have an A2C2 related question or problem?

>
> Just send an email to the following address detailing
> the nature of the question or problem and a service request
> will be created automatically:
>
> supp...@hpchelp.asu.edu


>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us on behalf of Kevin Brown

> Sent: Tue 6/28/2011 5:17 PM

> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: DefCon for kids
>
>>> Sounds like Cathy's daughter is the perfect person for DefCon according to
>>> Chris' "Why is DefCon like sudoku?" presentation earlier this month.


>>>
>>> http://mychildssuitcase.blogspot.com/2011/06/channelling-energy-of-geeky-techy-kids.html


>>
>> There is a good deal of material presented at DefCon that gives
>> credence and lip service to breaking laws without consequences.  Youth
>> are already at a disadvantage s

Re: DefCon for kids

2011-06-28 Thread Lisa Kachold 
I think your understanding was of aufthority, not clear and simple
consequences?  Of course a few might argue joining the military as opposed
to some of the other opportunities available might be a perfect example.

But of course this is a subject mired in subjective experience, values
systems and symantics, possibly therefore "junk science".

I would like to see how many kids end up at DecConforkids?

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:54 PM, keith smith  wrote:

>
> I have not been following this thread until now.  I found the statement
> "The human brain doesn't recognize consequences until age 25?" to be very
> interesting.
>
> I'm a little older. I joined the Marine Corps at 18.  My peers and I
> understood consequences almost from the first moment of entering boot camp.
>
> By 25 most enlisted marines, if they stayed in, would have 7 years in and
> have made it to the rank of E-5 or E-6.  When I was in some made E-5 -
> Sergeant within the fist 4 years.  That put them in a position of authority
> and responsibility, and they were only 21, 22, or 23 years old when they
> took on that responsibility that required a thorough understanding of
> consequences.
>
>
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Tue, 6/28/11, Nathan England * wrote:
>
>
> From: Nathan England 
>
> Subject: Re: DefCon for kids
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
> Date: Tuesday, June 28, 2011, 8:43 PM
>
>
> I am of the opinion that science is not always correct, regardless of how
> much "study" has been done. Science telling me that the human brain is not
> capable of making a decision without considering the consequences of the
> decision, yet all our known life came from some primordial ooze, or all
> existing matter came about through a one in a billion random chance big
> bang, only proves to me that science is not always right. More like the
> science is created to cater to someone's agenda.
>
> I specifically remember as a young child considering the consequences of my
> actions. Of course, I was also "spanked" as a child! oh no! someone call Dr.
> Spock! I think in reality we are trying to make these punk adolescents feel
> better by telling them it is not their faults, in order for a baby boomer
> society to make up for a lack of discipline in their homes while raising
> their children.
>
> just my .02
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Eric Cope 
> http://mc/compose?to=eric.c...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> There was a book published with the last few years talking about adolescent
> decision making. Adolescents have different value systems making their
> decisions look poor from adults point of view, but actually quite rational.
> It's was titled "the case against adolescence".
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Jun 28, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Lisa Kachold 
> http://mc/compose?to=lisakach...@obnosis.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Lee Reynolds 
> <<http://mc/compose?to=lee.reyno...@asu.edu>
> lee.reyno...@asu.edu <http://mc/compose?to=lee.reyno...@asu.edu>> wrote:
> > The human brain doesn't recognize consequences until age 25?
> >
> > That sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me, the kind of stuff that is
> used to make excuses for adults acting like overgrown adolescents.  Perhaps
> the issue is not a matter of neurological development, but a matter of
> parents allowing their grown children to persist in a child-like state until
> they are almost 30.  I'm only 38 myself, but I do remember the days when
> growing up meant you grew up.  Maybe you went off to college, maybe you
> joined the military, maybe you lived with your folks but paid serious rent
> while attending college close to home.  But whatever you did, you were
> expected to be an adult, not a child.  Today many people in their early 20's
> are still living with mom and dad as if high school never ended.  Allowing
> someone to persist in that kind of a cocoon is a great way to wind up with
> someone who at first glance does not appear to understand consequences, when
> in truth they've simply never had to function in life as a normal adult.
> >
> > 
>
>
> I am not sure if it would be called "junk" but it's neuroscience backed up
> by long behavioral studies and statistics, as well as imaging.
>
>
> <http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=consequences+brain+age+25&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=1df85bb4ccbea692&biw=900&bih=330>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=consequences+brain+age+25&aq=f&aqi=

Re: DefCon for kids

2011-06-28 Thread Sam Kreimeyer 
Keith,

I have two cousins whom recently finished their tours. One is a heroin
fiend (with a penchant for killing animals), another (coincidentally
an E-5 in the USMC) is thoroughly convinced that aliens from far off
galaxies are reading our thoughts at any given moment. Suffice to say,
their judgement is quite suspect in my mind. Obviously, this is a
small sample of a large population, but it does give me reason to
think that rank alone is not proof positive of sound judgement.

More towards the point of the discussion, though, I think the point is
still valid that presentations at Defcon have a tendency to gloss over
the legal ramifications of using exploits. It would be shame for an
impressionable young person to learn about the consequences of
straying from the narrow paths of our convoluted legal system in a
courtroom. The real shame is that there is such difficulty in fully
exploring such a great learning experience for young and old alike.

On 6/28/11, Lisa Kachold  wrote:
> I think your understanding was of aufthority, not clear and simple
> consequences?  Of course a few might argue joining the military as opposed
> to some of the other opportunities available might be a perfect example.
>
> But of course this is a subject mired in subjective experience, values
> systems and symantics, possibly therefore "junk science".
>
> I would like to see how many kids end up at DecConforkids?
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:54 PM, keith smith  wrote:
>
>>
>> I have not been following this thread until now.  I found the statement
>> "The human brain doesn't recognize consequences until age 25?" to be very
>> interesting.
>>
>> I'm a little older. I joined the Marine Corps at 18.  My peers and I
>> understood consequences almost from the first moment of entering boot
>> camp.
>>
>> By 25 most enlisted marines, if they stayed in, would have 7 years in and
>> have made it to the rank of E-5 or E-6.  When I was in some made E-5 -
>> Sergeant within the fist 4 years.  That put them in a position of
>> authority
>> and responsibility, and they were only 21, 22, or 23 years old when they
>> took on that responsibility that required a thorough understanding of
>> consequences.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> Keith Smith
>>
>> --- On *Tue, 6/28/11, Nathan England * wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Nathan England 
>>
>> Subject: Re: DefCon for kids
>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
>> Date: Tuesday, June 28, 2011, 8:43 PM
>>
>>
>> I am of the opinion that science is not always correct, regardless of how
>> much "study" has been done. Science telling me that the human brain is not
>> capable of making a decision without considering the consequences of the
>> decision, yet all our known life came from some primordial ooze, or all
>> existing matter came about through a one in a billion random chance big
>> bang, only proves to me that science is not always right. More like the
>> science is created to cater to someone's agenda.
>>
>> I specifically remember as a young child considering the consequences of
>> my
>> actions. Of course, I was also "spanked" as a child! oh no! someone call
>> Dr.
>> Spock! I think in reality we are trying to make these punk adolescents
>> feel
>> better by telling them it is not their faults, in order for a baby boomer
>> society to make up for a lack of discipline in their homes while raising
>> their children.
>>
>> just my .02
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Eric Cope
>> http://mc/compose?to=eric.c...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> There was a book published with the last few years talking about
>> adolescent
>> decision making. Adolescents have different value systems making their
>> decisions look poor from adults point of view, but actually quite
>> rational.
>> It's was titled "the case against adolescence".
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On Jun 28, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Lisa Kachold
>> http://mc/compose?to=lisakach...@obnosis.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Lee Reynolds
>> <<http://mc/compose?to=lee.reyno...@asu.edu>
>> lee.reyno...@asu.edu <http://mc/compose?to=lee.reyno...@asu.edu>> wrote:
>> > The human brain doesn't recognize consequences until age 25?
>> >
>> > That sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me, the kind of stuff that is
>> used to make excuses for adults acting like overgrown adolescents.
>> Perhaps
>> the issue is n

Re: DefCon for kids

2011-06-30 Thread der.hans 

Am 28. Jun, 2011 schwätzte Lisa Kachold so:


There is a good deal of material presented at DefCon that gives
credence and lip service to breaking laws without consequences.  Youth


Agreed. Part of my responsibility as a parent is to provide guidance when
society gives contrary examples :).

In any case, I look forward to either doing some of the kids workshops
together or getting a good review after he's taken them.

ciao,

der.hans
--
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Re: DefCon for kids

2011-06-30 Thread der.hans 

Am 28. Jun, 2011 schwätzte Eric Cope so:


There was a book published with the last few years talking about adolescent decision 
making. Adolescents have different value systems making their decisions look poor from 
adults point of view, but actually quite rational. It's was titled "the case against 
adolescence".


Kids certainly understand consequences, even long before being teenagers.

It doesn't mean they give as much weight to the consequences as those who
are older might assign. It also doesn't mean that lack of patience, lack
of experience, hormones, raw impulse and many other factors don't cause
consequences to be totally ignored or highly devalued.

There's also no guarantee that those who are older and have more
experience will make good or rational decisions :).

And, as pointed out, poor decisions ( from one perspective ) might be
quite rational ( from another perspectie ). This phenomenom often exhibits
itself in individuals when alcohol is involved :).

ciao,

der.hans
--
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#  a member of my immediate family.  -- der.hans---
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