Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)
On Apr 26, 2008, at 1:58 PM, Kurt Granroth wrote: Chris Gehlker wrote: On Apr 25, 2008, at 10:36 PM, Kurt Granroth wrote: But it [the iLife suite] does so in a completely and totally locked down fashion. All files are sucked in, converted to the iLife formats, and good luck ever trying to get them out again. I don't understand what you mean here. I haven't used iLife that much but i was able to export pictures from iPhoto in TIFF or JPEG and Music from Garage Band as MIDI. As one-offs, yes. iPhoto, in fact, is even better than digikam for exporting select photos from an album into a directory without having to create a web album or some other contrivance. iMovie exports to quite a few formats as well. What I'm referring to is the original files. In iPhoto, for instance, good luck trying to share the original pictures in an album with another photo manager. It keeps the files in an odd directory ordering and orders it through a proprietary database file. iTunes is the same with their iTunes Library files. If you randomly add a file into directory tree of either app, they will *not* recognize that it's new and add it to their library. This is only done via their official import methods. I've found that it's easier to completely 'nuke' my iPhoto albums whenever I add new photos or videos (since I do it over a shared drive via another application) than to import each one at a time. Mind you, they have gotten a lot better in recent years. You can actually have multiple libraries now and even tell each not to move the original files (thus preserving whatever rational order you may have for the originals). Sharing the originals is now far easier than it used to be... still a pain, but easier. Still not good enough, IMO. Thanks for replying, Kurt. I understand your point now and agree. --- Neither a man nor a crowd nor a nation can be trusted to act humanely or to think sanely under the influence of a great fear. -Bertrand Russell, philosopher, mathematician, author, Nobel laureate (1872-1970) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)
Craig White wrote: never missing an opportunity to pile on... [snip] I honestly think that the reason Apple has customers is because the people who buy Apple think the only alternative is Windows. Which is why so many Linux people I know also have Macs wait, that doesn't follow at all. Apple has so many customers being OS X on a Mac works so incredibly well for what it was designed to do. It is unparalleled as a consumer or desktop OS. More than any other OS, it Just Works(tm). Alas, it often does so in a very MS-like proprietary manner. The iLife suite, for instance, works together wonderfully. It's almost worth buying a Mac just for iLife, if that's what you do with computers. But it does so in a completely and totally locked down fashion. All files are sucked in, converted to the iLife formats, and good luck ever trying to get them out again. It can be maddening if you use media files in a multitude of players and editors spanning multiple OSes. It goes back to Alan's question (paraphrased) on whether one can justify being proprietary if the end result is elegant enough. In the case of Macs and (in particular) iLife, the answer for a lot of people is yes. Personally, I do all of my video editing in iMovie. I capture my video and store it on my Linux server, managed mostly by digikam (which I really wish had better video support... c'est la vie). I then mirror the files to an external drive formatted in NTFS (going down the rabbit hole already) which I bring over to my iMac. I then import the entire tree into iPhoto and it does it's proprietary magic. At this point, when I pull up iMovie, it can see and use any of my videos. I then export the result into a variety of formats when I'm done (some more proprietary than others). So for me, as long as my original files are free, then I'm willing to bend any absolute principals to get the level of elegance that only a Mac can (or does) give. Kurt signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)
On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 20:28 -0700, Alan Dayley wrote: Donn wrote: Thank you Austin. That was part of my point. OS X has ONE Price and One version. It also has none of the typical Windows issues with Registry hell, reboot after sneezing hard, corruption of basic services by applications (at least typically), etc. Who has the keys to your life? I actively work to make sure I have the keys as often as possible, even if I might have to hire someone to use them for me. I'd rather have that option than have some piece of my life locked away at a time and place I did not choose. never missing an opportunity to pile on... Apple is just another company that wants you to keep purchasing the same thing over and over again. I would find that easier to accept if their software didn't seem like perpetual beta quality. As for the hardware...until you need repairs and then you have to confront a revolutionary new business model...PreferredCare. $100 extortion fee and they repair in 2/3 days. If you don't pay the fee, repair in 1/3 weeks. Warranty is not material to the discussion but the *good* thing is that you only have to pay the $100 extortion fee once each year. I honestly think that the reason Apple has customers is because the people who buy Apple think the only alternative is Windows. Craig --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)
I honestly think that the reason Apple has customers is because the people who buy Apple think the only alternative is Windows. That or they need the multimedia properties and software that have been do well done on the Mac. Simple fact is Windows can't touch them on that account for quality (and consistent quality at that). Their OS has it's issues, but what OS doesn't.. ;) Sincerely, Judd Pickell --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)
On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 20:45 -0700, Judd Pickell wrote: I honestly think that the reason Apple has customers is because the people who buy Apple think the only alternative is Windows. That or they need the multimedia properties and software that have been do well done on the Mac. Simple fact is Windows can't touch them on that account for quality (and consistent quality at that). Their OS has it's issues, but what OS doesn't.. ;) I remember being pretty happy with CP/M Craig --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)
On Apr 24, 2008, at 8:34 PM, Craig White wrote: As for the hardware...until you need repairs and then you have to confront a revolutionary new business model...PreferredCare. $100 extortion fee and they repair in 2/3 days. If you don't pay the fee, repair in 1/3 weeks. Warranty is not material to the discussion but the *good* thing is that you only have to pay the $100 extortion fee once each year. I honestly think that the reason Apple has customers is because the people who buy Apple think the only alternative is Windows. Craig - In my experience I've had only one Apple repair take longer than one day, and that was when my display needed to be shipped off for a panel replacement. All others (and there have been a number of them) have been completed the same day. ProCare does get you the ability to schedule appointments farther out, but that seems to be about all its good for. I just make my appts on Sunday night for early monday morning (if possible). The store isn't crowded, and the repair usually happens within 20 minutes. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)
On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 21:10 -0700, Mike Garfias wrote: On Apr 24, 2008, at 8:34 PM, Craig White wrote: As for the hardware...until you need repairs and then you have to confront a revolutionary new business model...PreferredCare. $100 extortion fee and they repair in 2/3 days. If you don't pay the fee, repair in 1/3 weeks. Warranty is not material to the discussion but the *good* thing is that you only have to pay the $100 extortion fee once each year. I honestly think that the reason Apple has customers is because the people who buy Apple think the only alternative is Windows. Craig - In my experience I've had only one Apple repair take longer than one day, and that was when my display needed to be shipped off for a panel replacement. All others (and there have been a number of them) have been completed the same day. ProCare does get you the ability to schedule appointments farther out, but that seems to be about all its good for. I just make my appts on Sunday night for early monday morning (if possible). The store isn't crowded, and the repair usually happens within 20 minutes. that hasn't been typical of my experiences but I'm not saying that they're bad...but it's been made entirely clear to me that you pay the $100 extortion fee if you want your computer back in under a week. Craig --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
