ubuntu 9.10
I am in possession of a linux machine installed with ubuntu 9.10. I got the computer but not the disk with the extra programs. Would someone be gracious enough to mail me that disk? I am at 3486 E Granite DR, Cottonwood, AZ 86326. Why am I oosting my address? Beecause whoever wants to come visit me is most welcome to do so. -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ubuntu 9.10
>> not the disk with the extra programs. Hm... Never heard of one... Or ever needed a CD to install anything. How'bout: sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get -y dist-upgrade Add stuff with: /usr/bin/aptitude (universal) and/or (KDE based): /usr/bin/kpackagekit There is a Gnome/Xfce/(something else) equivalent, but duno them... ET Michael Havens writes: > I am in possession of a linux machine installed with ubuntu 9.10. I got the > computer but not the disk with the extra programs. Would someone be gracious > enough to mail me that disk? I am at 3486 E Granite DR, Cottonwood, AZ > 86326. Why am I oosting my address? Beecause whoever wants to come visit me > is most welcome to do so. > > -- > :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ubuntu 9.10
98% of the applications you want to install are had via internet access to the repositories. all the software that is installed on the CD is on your computer already. (i think) http://spiceminesofkessel.com/2009/11/11/a-beginners-guide-to-installing-software-in-ubuntu-9-10/ On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Michael Havens wrote: > I am in possession of a linux machine installed with ubuntu 9.10. I got the > computer but not the disk with the extra programs. Would someone be gracious > enough to mail me that disk? I am at 3486 E Granite DR, Cottonwood, AZ > 86326. Why am I oosting my address? Beecause whoever wants to come visit me > is most welcome to do so. > > -- > :-)~MIKE~(-: > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ubuntu 9.10
when I tried to start Ruby it told me to apt-get it. Unfortunately, I do not have internet for that box. On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Stephen wrote: > 98% of the applications you want to install are had via internet > access to the repositories. all the software that is installed on the > CD is on your computer already. (i think) > > > http://spiceminesofkessel.com/2009/11/11/a-beginners-guide-to-installing-software-in-ubuntu-9-10/ > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Michael Havens wrote: > > I am in possession of a linux machine installed with ubuntu 9.10. I got > the > > computer but not the disk with the extra programs. Would someone be > gracious > > enough to mail me that disk? I am at 3486 E Granite DR, Cottonwood, AZ > > 86326. Why am I oosting my address? Beecause whoever wants to come visit > me > > is most welcome to do so. > > > > -- > > :-)~MIKE~(-: > > > > --- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > -- > A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from > rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. > > Stephen > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- :-)~MIKE~(-: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ubuntu 9.10
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Michael Havens wrote: > when I tried to start Ruby it told me to apt-get it. Unfortunately, I do not > have internet for that box. Michael, the thing about FOSS software is, because it's free nobody spends a lot of time nicely sticking everything on CD. Not with most distros anyways and certainly not on a single-CD distro like Ubuntu. If you want to load software, you need to temporarily hook it up to the 'net. The other option is to go with a multi-CD (or DVD) distro that includes more stuff in the initial install. Even then, I dunno if Ruby is going to be there. "Bigger" distros include Fedora last I checked, and OpenSuse. But again, this still won't eliminate having to hook it up to get more code. Jim --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ubuntu 9.10
Recent Fedora installs are now a livecd as well no longer DVD's On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Jim March <1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Michael Havens wrote: >> when I tried to start Ruby it told me to apt-get it. Unfortunately, I do not >> have internet for that box. > > Michael, the thing about FOSS software is, because it's free nobody > spends a lot of time nicely sticking everything on CD. Not with most > distros anyways and certainly not on a single-CD distro like Ubuntu. > > If you want to load software, you need to temporarily hook it up to the 'net. > > The other option is to go with a multi-CD (or DVD) distro that > includes more stuff in the initial install. Even then, I dunno if > Ruby is going to be there. "Bigger" distros include Fedora last I > checked, and OpenSuse. But again, this still won't eliminate having > to hook it up to get more code. > > Jim > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ubuntu 9.10
Jim March wrote: > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Michael Havens wrote: > >> when I tried to start Ruby it told me to apt-get it. Unfortunately, I do not >> have internet for that box. >> > > Michael, the thing about FOSS software is, because it's free nobody > spends a lot of time nicely sticking everything on CD. Not with most > distros anyways and certainly not on a single-CD distro like Ubuntu. > > If you want to load software, you need to temporarily hook it up to the 'net. > > The other option is to go with a multi-CD (or DVD) distro that > includes more stuff in the initial install. Even then, I dunno if > Ruby is going to be there. "Bigger" distros include Fedora last I > checked, and OpenSuse. But again, this still won't eliminate having > to hook it up to get more code. > > Jim > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > 1) Doesn't Ruby run on Windows? 2) Cant you get the packages on Windows for Ubuntu, and put the packages on the local Ubuntu machine and apt-get locally? 3) Can't you boot the Windows machine to Ubuntu (for example) using a thumb drive and sneaker the needed packages over to the target machine? 4) Cant you put a cheap network card ($10-25 or donation. 10 base T would be fine.) in the Windows machine and bridge/proxy the Ubuntu machine (maybe not with @#$% crippled Windows desktop)? Now the Ubuntu machine has web access. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ubuntu 9.10
On Wed, 2010-02-24 at 14:44 -0700, Stephen wrote: > Recent Fedora installs are now a livecd as well no longer DVD's > wrong - you simply have a choice of the installation DVD or a live-cd. There are DVD's for various cpu's (i386, x86_64, PPC, etc.) The live-cd is obviously a small footprint because of the 650 MB limitation. Even the DVD's are limited to about 4500 MB. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
anyone done a ubuntu 9.10 upgrade yet?
I have used linux for many years, and I have found that upgrades in place rarely work in the past. Has anyone done a upgrade in place using the Update Manager for ubuntu 9.10? Did it work? Or would it be better to just create a tarball of my home directory, save it off, download and burn the iso, and just do a full install? -- Hobbit Name: Pimpernel Loamsdown Registered Linux User: 275424 K7AZJ This email's Fortune: If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people? --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Installing Ubuntu 9.10 on Dell M6400 with Raid
Hi all, I was trying to install Ubuntu 9.10 on my new Dell Precision M6400, that I bought from the Dell Depot. As soon as I got it I installed 2 Western Digital 320gb Scorpio Sata drives. I used the onboard Intel Matrix Storage Manager (v8.0.0.1039) ICH9M-E to mirror the drives, (Raid 1). I gave the new volume a name, "WDscorpioV01". So far, so good. I downloaded the new Ubuntu 9.10 installation cd for amd64. I ran the installation cd and was able to install 94% of the OS. Then, I got an error message, "The 'grub' package failed to install into '/taget/'. I tried installing 9.10 several times varing a few settings each time, always with the same error about not being able to install grub. I then tried installing 9.04 and it installs okay, however, when the system reboots, it just sits there with a blinking cursor and does not boot into the new system. I decided to try installing 9.10 again, and during the partitioning portion, I noticed that partitioner was seeing a 320gb hard disk. This is where I believe the core of the problem is. It should only be seeing a 298gb hard disk, since I am using hardware raid. Next, I re-entered the Intel Raid Controller and deleted the raid volume. Then, I re-entered the bios and changed the hard drive configuration mode from Raid to S-ATA. Finally, I tried the install again onto the first Sata drive, (without hardware raid). I only partitioned the first drive and left the second drive unpartitioned. (I was going to setup software raid, but that option is not available on the normal install cd. It is available on the 'alternate' install cd). On step 8 of 8, I clicked the 'Advanced...' menu and set it to install the boot loader into /dev/sda1. The installation was succesful and finished without any errors. Although, I am glad to know 9.10 runs on my new computer, this piece of success really does not help me. I decided to try installing 9.10 from the 'alternate' install cd next. I went through the installation process as usual and when I got to the partitioning section I setup software raid. I finished the installation and rebooted into the new system successfully. This is a useable configuration for me, although, I would prefer using hardware raid instead of software raid. If anybody knows how to setup hardware raid with ubuntu 9.10 (karmic koala), I would love to hear about it. MatthewMPP --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: anyone done a ubuntu 9.10 upgrade yet?
I downloaded the ISO and it would even install on a Tpad R40. -jmz On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Jerry Davis wrote: > I have used linux for many years, and I have found that upgrades in place > rarely work in the past. > > Has anyone done a upgrade in place using the Update Manager for ubuntu 9.10? > Did it work? > > Or would it be better to just create a tarball of my home directory, save it > off, download and burn the iso, and just do a full install? > > -- > Hobbit Name: Pimpernel Loamsdown > Registered Linux User: 275424 > K7AZJ > > This email's Fortune: > If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people? > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: anyone done a ubuntu 9.10 upgrade yet?
This depends on what you want out of the upgrade: For most desktop use, upgrading from 9.04 to 9.10 is pretty smooth and painless, although you'll be stuck with the stupid chooser login, all of the other GDM options are gone. There are some other "new" "features" that eliminate all choice in various areas, but most users won't notice those (picky types like me will probably want to "apt-get purge" about 200 packages jammed in by the new version in order to restore some semblance of a desktop that works your way, rather than the "Microsoft" way). If you want to run ext4 partitions, you'll want to backup your homedir and do a clean install. "Upgrades" from ext3 to ext4 aren't complete due to technical limitations, so it's best to do a clean format as ext4 if you want to use it. After install, use "sudo apt-get purge update-manager update-notifier update-manager-core update-notifier-common" to get rid of the pop-under stupidity in update manager (introduced in 9.04 and still present in 9.10). You'll have to run "apt-get update;apt-get -d dist-upgrade" nightly via cron (and then run "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" manually on occasion to do actual upgrades) to replicate the useful functionality that update-notifier used to offer, but it's a small price to pay for not having the stupid thing interrupt your work constantly. ==Joseph++ Jerry Davis wrote: > I have used linux for many years, and I have found that upgrades in place > rarely work in the past. > > Has anyone done a upgrade in place using the Update Manager for ubuntu 9.10? > Did it work? > > Or would it be better to just create a tarball of my home directory, save it > off, download and burn the iso, and just do a full install? > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: anyone done a ubuntu 9.10 upgrade yet?
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 22:09 -0700, Jerry Davis wrote: > I have used linux for many years, and I have found that upgrades in place > rarely work in the past. I've had the opposite experience, for the most part... my main desktop has been upgrading in-place since ubuntu 6.10 > Has anyone done a upgrade in place using the Update Manager for ubuntu 9.10? > Did it work? On 3 of the 4 computer's I've done so far, the upgrade was flawless, aside from the new firefox icon not automatically appearing. Of the successful ones, 2 were AMD/nVidia-based desktops, both relatively new, custom builds w/ Gigabyte mobos, and 1 was a Dell Inspiron 1545 w/ integrated Intel graphics. The computer that misbehaved slightly was my main desktop (which usually misbehaves)... a slightly older (about 4-5 years now), but still custom built, AMD/ATI box on an MSI mobo, with lots of extra hardware (webcam, dual-head video, SB Audio deluxe sound card, Logitech G15 keyboard...). The fglrx modules failed to build for the new kernel and I had to remove them manually and replace them with the FOSS Radeon driver (which has gotten a lot better since I last used it, imho), and the flashplugin-installer broke, and I'm w/o flash atm because I haven't bothered to fix it yet. Additionally after the first reboot X failed to start automatically, and I had to login/startx myself. After the second reboot though, everything worked as expected...just had to redo my speaker config because I chose to overwrite the old pulseaudio daemon.conf file during the upgrade. Other than that though, everything seems to be working just fine. > Or would it be better to just create a tarball of my home directory, save it > off, download and burn the iso, and just do a full install? I always back up the really important stuff anyway, but it's probably not entirely needed anymore, unless you really want to. If you're unsure/nervous though, just back everything up anyway and try the upgrade. if it works, keep it and no harm done...if the upgrade doesn't work like you want for whatever reason, do a fresh install and start over. Alternatively, you can always try downloading the alternate CD, and upgrading from that. I usually do that for my laptops since I'm using them on the go, and downloading the whole upgrade takes a pretty long time. I didn't this time, but the last time I did with my old laptop (which is still on 8.04 for an LTS-to-LTS upgrade test) it worked fine. Hope that helps :) -- Andrew _ Registered Linux User: 473690 Registered Ubuntu User: 22747 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: anyone done a ubuntu 9.10 upgrade yet?
Ext4 is one of the best new features, now fully stable. It's worth the clean install to get. Jim --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: anyone done a ubuntu 9.10 upgrade yet?
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 22:30 -0700, Joseph Sinclair wrote: > This depends on what you want out of the upgrade: > For most desktop use, upgrading from 9.04 to 9.10 is pretty smooth and > painless, although you'll be stuck with the stupid chooser login, all > of the other GDM options are gone. [snip] There's actually a ton of new ways to configure the new GDM, there's just not a GUI to do it while logged into a session yet. To customize the GUI: 1. log out 2. ctrl+alt+F1 to a tty terminal 3. login, then run the following 2 commands: 1. export DISPLAY=:0.0 2. sudo -u gdm gnome-control-center 4. ctrl+alt+F7 back to the gdm login, and rejoice at the menu available 5. Configure away. you can change the fonts/wallpaper of the gdm screen from 'Appearences', as well as the window borders, colors, etc 6. If you're like me and have dual-screens, you can go to 'Display' and configure them so they don't just mirror each-other. 7. You can even enable basic desktop effects using metacity's compositing feature, if you want to by going back to the TTY1, and typing in sudo -u gdm gconf-editor, and editing the /apps/metacity/compositing key [snip] > After install, use "sudo apt-get purge update-manager update-notifier > update-manager-core update-notifier-common" to get rid of the > pop-under stupidity in update manager (introduced in 9.04 and still > present in 9.10). or... you could restore the traditional notification functionality of update-manager by doing: gconftool -s --type bool /apps/update-notifier/auto_launch false as prescribed here: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/904 I agree that the update-manager popping up to tell you about updates is very annoying and distracting... theres ALWAYS better ways to give information to your users than popups (though I'll admit, the new notify-osd system is pretty slick). hope that proves useful to you! -- Andrew _ Registered Linux User: 473690 Registered Ubuntu User: 22747 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: anyone done a ubuntu 9.10 upgrade yet?
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 22:09 -0700, Jerry Davis wrote: > I have used linux for many years, and I have found that upgrades in place > rarely work in the past. > > Has anyone done a upgrade in place using the Update Manager for ubuntu 9.10? > Did it work? > > Or would it be better to just create a tarball of my home directory, save it > off, download and burn the iso, and just do a full install? > Of course, you want to back-up all your files any time you make major changes to your operating system, just in case something weird happens, like continuous re-boots, or the system refuses to let you do a clean install from an upgrade... I ran the 9.10 upgrade from the update manager. I started the process, then went to bed. When I got up in the morning, everything was up and running. For my part, the upgrade fixed a lot of minor issues I had with 9.04, and then some. It was a painless process for me. If you plan to save your home directory to do a clean install anyway, why not just give the update manager upgrade a shot anyway? The worst that can happen is you'll end up saving yourself a lot of time! Stu --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
Folks, I have a laptop with the mediocre Intel 965/X3100 chipset. In Ubuntu Jaunty it ran like a turd until major tweaks were applied, and the results weren't 100% stable. Jaunty came out right as the Intel video support was in flux and Jaunty basically caught about half of what was needed between the kernel, xorg, Intel driver, Mesa and Compiz. Karmic has the whole package. I've been running it for five days now, ever since alpha4 came out, and it's more solid (and FASTER) than I ever got out of Jaunty. I did a full re-install with the alternate installer (as I use whole disk encryption) and I went with Ext4 - it's working great. On a lark I loaded the 64bit Adobe Flash "alpha" and it's rock solid too - best flash Linux experience I've ever had, period, end of discussion. I think Karmic is going to be a really sweet Ubuntu flavor when it ships and the improvements in Intel video support are so amazingly vast I'd say anybody with at least moderate technical chops able to cope with minor pre-release glitches should switch NOW. I'm told the fixes also apply perfectly to the Intel 4500 chipset found on the newest el cheapo laptops. WARNING: this applies to all Intel video drivers except the GMA500 chipset. That thing is a major turd and will remain so until the Ubuntu distro post-Karmic at a minimum. The most common GMA500 machine is the Dell "mini 10" I think it's called, and for some reason that thing is an excellent Hackintosh candidate. While I'm not normally a proponent of running Apple OSX on non-Apple hardware (as Apple is actively trying to stomp your install with updates!), the difference in support for the GMA500 between Linux generally and OSX is severe enough I'd consider it, at least until Intel helps get the driver situation under control. (The issue is, Intel recently bought the GMA500 tech from another company that was very Linux-hostile...Intel is getting it sorted out but it's just not done yet. That company did do some OSX drivers for Apple...) --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installing Ubuntu 9.10 on Dell M6400 with Raid
Matthew A Coulliette wrote: > Hi all, > > I was trying to install Ubuntu 9.10 on my new Dell Precision M6400, that > I bought from the Dell Depot. > > As soon as I got it I installed 2 Western Digital 320gb Scorpio Sata > drives. I used the onboard Intel Matrix Storage Manager (v8.0.0.1039) > ICH9M-E to mirror the drives, (Raid 1). I gave the new volume a name, > "WDscorpioV01". So far, so good. > > I downloaded the new Ubuntu 9.10 installation cd for amd64. I ran the > installation cd and was able to install 94% of the OS. Then, I got an > error message, "The 'grub' package failed to install into '/taget/'. > > I tried installing 9.10 several times varing a few settings each time, > always with the same error about not being able to install grub. > > I then tried installing 9.04 and it installs okay, however, when the > system reboots, it just sits there with a blinking cursor and does not > boot into the new system. > > I decided to try installing 9.10 again, and during the partitioning > portion, I noticed that partitioner was seeing a 320gb hard disk. This > is where I believe the core of the problem is. It should only be seeing > a 298gb hard disk, since I am using hardware raid. > > Next, I re-entered the Intel Raid Controller and deleted the raid > volume. Then, I re-entered the bios and changed the hard drive > configuration mode from Raid to S-ATA. > > Finally, I tried the install again onto the first Sata drive, (without > hardware raid). I only partitioned the first drive and left the second > drive unpartitioned. (I was going to setup software raid, but that > option is not available on the normal install cd. It is available on the > 'alternate' install cd). On step 8 of 8, I clicked the 'Advanced...' > menu and set it to install the boot loader into /dev/sda1. The > installation was succesful and finished without any errors. Although, I > am glad to know 9.10 runs on my new computer, this piece of success > really does not help me. > > I decided to try installing 9.10 from the 'alternate' install cd next. I > went through the installation process as usual and when I got to the > partitioning section I setup software raid. I finished the installation > and rebooted into the new system successfully. This is a useable > configuration for me, although, I would prefer using hardware raid > instead of software raid. > > If anybody knows how to setup hardware raid with ubuntu 9.10 (karmic > koala), I would love to hear about it. > > MatthewMPP > I prefer software raid myself. One less piece of hardware that might fail. Plus when it does fail, you'll be hard pressed to find another one like it that can read your drives. With processing power such as it is today, I really need no good reason for hardware raid. Unless you need raid for that other OS. ;) -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installing Ubuntu 9.10 on Dell M6400 with Raid
Matthew, The "hardware" RAID that is built into most desktop motherboards (including yours) is not really hardware RAID it's software RAID in bios. Running with software RAID in Linux is actually better than the horribly limited BIOS-based software RAID. The onboard RAID in consumer motherboards is intended to allow gamers to run a limited RAID in Windows, it's a waste of MB space and power for Linux users (and I prefer machines without it, except there aren't many available any more). Real hardware RAID is important in server systems when the reliability is critical and the better performance with external arrays is worth the extra $1000 or so for a real ASIC-based battery-backed hardware RAID card with it's own cache RAM. For home use it's just not worth it. Software RAID is pretty effective in Linux, and you'll almost certainly be fine with performance unless you're running an ancient single-core CPU or a tiny little atom chip. ==Joseph++ Matthew A Coulliette wrote: > Hi all, > > I was trying to install Ubuntu 9.10 on my new Dell Precision M6400, that > I bought from the Dell Depot. > <>> > > If anybody knows how to setup hardware raid with ubuntu 9.10 (karmic > koala), I would love to hear about it. > > MatthewMPP signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installing Ubuntu 9.10 on Dell M6400 with Raid
Intel raid is a firmware based soft raid So it won't work as is Linux just has no drivers Likely never will On 11/6/09, Matthew A Coulliette wrote: > Hi all, > > I was trying to install Ubuntu 9.10 on my new Dell Precision M6400, that > I bought from the Dell Depot. > > As soon as I got it I installed 2 Western Digital 320gb Scorpio Sata > drives. I used the onboard Intel Matrix Storage Manager (v8.0.0.1039) > ICH9M-E to mirror the drives, (Raid 1). I gave the new volume a name, > "WDscorpioV01". So far, so good. > > I downloaded the new Ubuntu 9.10 installation cd for amd64. I ran the > installation cd and was able to install 94% of the OS. Then, I got an > error message, "The 'grub' package failed to install into '/taget/'. > > I tried installing 9.10 several times varing a few settings each time, > always with the same error about not being able to install grub. > > I then tried installing 9.04 and it installs okay, however, when the > system reboots, it just sits there with a blinking cursor and does not > boot into the new system. > > I decided to try installing 9.10 again, and during the partitioning > portion, I noticed that partitioner was seeing a 320gb hard disk. This > is where I believe the core of the problem is. It should only be seeing > a 298gb hard disk, since I am using hardware raid. > > Next, I re-entered the Intel Raid Controller and deleted the raid > volume. Then, I re-entered the bios and changed the hard drive > configuration mode from Raid to S-ATA. > > Finally, I tried the install again onto the first Sata drive, (without > hardware raid). I only partitioned the first drive and left the second > drive unpartitioned. (I was going to setup software raid, but that > option is not available on the normal install cd. It is available on the > 'alternate' install cd). On step 8 of 8, I clicked the 'Advanced...' > menu and set it to install the boot loader into /dev/sda1. The > installation was succesful and finished without any errors. Although, I > am glad to know 9.10 runs on my new computer, this piece of success > really does not help me. > > I decided to try installing 9.10 from the 'alternate' install cd next. I > went through the installation process as usual and when I got to the > partitioning section I setup software raid. I finished the installation > and rebooted into the new system successfully. This is a useable > configuration for me, although, I would prefer using hardware raid > instead of software raid. > > If anybody knows how to setup hardware raid with ubuntu 9.10 (karmic > koala), I would love to hear about it. > > MatthewMPP > > > > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- Sent from my mobile device A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installing Ubuntu 9.10 on Dell M6400 with Raid
Note Intel is probably the best of the firmware/softraids On 11/7/09, Joseph Sinclair wrote: > Matthew, > The "hardware" RAID that is built into most desktop motherboards > (including yours) is not really hardware RAID it's software RAID in bios. > Running with software RAID in Linux is actually better than the horribly > limited BIOS-based software RAID. The onboard RAID in consumer motherboards > is intended to allow gamers to run a limited RAID in Windows, it's a waste > of MB space and power for Linux users (and I prefer machines without it, > except there aren't many available any more). > Real hardware RAID is important in server systems when the reliability is > critical and the better performance with external arrays is worth the extra > $1000 or so for a real ASIC-based battery-backed hardware RAID card with > it's own cache RAM. For home use it's just not worth it. > Software RAID is pretty effective in Linux, and you'll almost certainly be > fine with performance unless you're running an ancient single-core CPU or a > tiny little atom chip. > > ==Joseph++ > > Matthew A Coulliette wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I was trying to install Ubuntu 9.10 on my new Dell Precision M6400, that >> I bought from the Dell Depot. >> > <>> >> >> If anybody knows how to setup hardware raid with ubuntu 9.10 (karmic >> koala), I would love to hear about it. >> >> MatthewMPP > > > -- Sent from my mobile device A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Jim March<1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > Folks, > > I have a laptop with the mediocre Intel 965/X3100 chipset. In Ubuntu > Jaunty it ran like a turd until major tweaks were applied, and the > results weren't 100% stable. Jaunty came out right as the Intel video > support was in flux and Jaunty basically caught about half of what was > needed between the kernel, xorg, Intel driver, Mesa and Compiz. > > Karmic has the whole package. I've been running it for five days now, > ever since alpha4 came out, and it's more solid (and FASTER) than I > ever got out of Jaunty. I did a full re-install with the alternate > installer (as I use whole disk encryption) and I went with Ext4 - it's > working great. > > On a lark I loaded the 64bit Adobe Flash "alpha" and it's rock solid > too - best flash Linux experience I've ever had, period, end of > discussion. > > I think Karmic is going to be a really sweet Ubuntu flavor when it > ships and the improvements in Intel video support are so amazingly > vast I'd say anybody with at least moderate technical chops able to > cope with minor pre-release glitches should switch NOW. I'm told the > fixes also apply perfectly to the Intel 4500 chipset found on the > newest el cheapo laptops. > > WARNING: this applies to all Intel video drivers except the GMA500 > chipset. That thing is a major turd and will remain so until the > Ubuntu distro post-Karmic at a minimum. The most common GMA500 > machine is the Dell "mini 10" I think it's called, and for some reason > that thing is an excellent Hackintosh candidate. While I'm not > normally a proponent of running Apple OSX on non-Apple hardware (as > Apple is actively trying to stomp your install with updates!), the > difference in support for the GMA500 between Linux generally and OSX > is severe enough I'd consider it, at least until Intel helps get the > driver situation under control. (The issue is, Intel recently bought > the GMA500 tech from another company that was very > Linux-hostile...Intel is getting it sorted out but it's just not done > yet. That company did do some OSX drivers for Apple...) Fedora never had these problems :) *ducks* -- Thanks and best regards, Ryan Rix OnBoard-NG --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
> Fedora never had these problems :) > *ducks* Heh. Sure. It just does auto-updates to the release versions that break things. Fedora 11 shipped a bit after Jaunty and caught a few more of the Intel update bits, but still not "the whole deal" the way Karmic has. Karmic is what us Intel video guys have needed for a while now. Jaunty really should have been held back a couple months same as Dapper was. A couple months more and they'd have been on kernel 2.6.29 instead of .28, and had more of the Intel bits. That also would have allowed ATI to catch up to what xorg was doing...as it was, Jaunty shipped with the ATI proprietary drivers totally borked and Intel almost as screwed. Big mistake. Ubuntu really needs to be a bit more flexible on the whole "six months" thing or this is going to happen again eventually. Karmic is, fortunately, going to hit right on a "sweet spot". Jim --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
I just upgraded from ibex to jaunty and to Karmic on my laptop, and I've been having some major issues with it. No intel (thank goodness) to deal with, so can't attest to it. Suspend functions for me are now broken, gnome power manager is buggy at best, and my screen saver refuses to work. For a laptop these are killing me... VMware barely works with some hackery, and some of the alsa devices get figured out backward now. Even going from ibex to jaunty, network manager simply refused to adequately control the wireless hardware which was entirely a deal breaker, forcing me to roll the dice on karmic. This all from a perfectly working install in hardy or ibex. Otherwise, I am mostly pleased with the overall performance of it, definitely improved from Ibex. I'm assuming you did a clean install that everything works ok for you? Those typically work well for me too, but upgrades for me have been entirely crapshoots, which is really disappointing as otherwise I'm quite fond of ubuntu. I'm curious what success others have had here with upgrades, as the ubuntu forms tend to indicate it's a perpetual kludge of a process with destruction and mayhem as a result. I've always had major cleanup and fixage after a dist-upgrade. I long ago gave up on Fedora/RedHat when pretty much installing/upgrading/compiling any software just led to dependency hell. This has gotten somewhat better since yellowdog cloned apt with yum for RH-ish distros, but I'm still not ready to bother trying fedora again quite yet. If ubuntu keeps annoying me, perhaps I might. -mb On Mon, 2009-08-17 at 23:39 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote: > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Jim March<1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Folks, > > > > I have a laptop with the mediocre Intel 965/X3100 chipset. In Ubuntu > > Jaunty it ran like a turd until major tweaks were applied, and the > > results weren't 100% stable. Jaunty came out right as the Intel video > > support was in flux and Jaunty basically caught about half of what was > > needed between the kernel, xorg, Intel driver, Mesa and Compiz. > > > > Karmic has the whole package. I've been running it for five days now, > > ever since alpha4 came out, and it's more solid (and FASTER) than I > > ever got out of Jaunty. I did a full re-install with the alternate > > installer (as I use whole disk encryption) and I went with Ext4 - it's > > working great. > > > > On a lark I loaded the 64bit Adobe Flash "alpha" and it's rock solid > > too - best flash Linux experience I've ever had, period, end of > > discussion. > > > > I think Karmic is going to be a really sweet Ubuntu flavor when it > > ships and the improvements in Intel video support are so amazingly > > vast I'd say anybody with at least moderate technical chops able to > > cope with minor pre-release glitches should switch NOW. I'm told the > > fixes also apply perfectly to the Intel 4500 chipset found on the > > newest el cheapo laptops. > > > > WARNING: this applies to all Intel video drivers except the GMA500 > > chipset. That thing is a major turd and will remain so until the > > Ubuntu distro post-Karmic at a minimum. The most common GMA500 > > machine is the Dell "mini 10" I think it's called, and for some reason > > that thing is an excellent Hackintosh candidate. While I'm not > > normally a proponent of running Apple OSX on non-Apple hardware (as > > Apple is actively trying to stomp your install with updates!), the > > difference in support for the GMA500 between Linux generally and OSX > > is severe enough I'd consider it, at least until Intel helps get the > > driver situation under control. (The issue is, Intel recently bought > > the GMA500 tech from another company that was very > > Linux-hostile...Intel is getting it sorted out but it's just not done > > yet. That company did do some OSX drivers for Apple...) > > Fedora never had these problems :) > *ducks* > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
Yeah, it was a clean install of Karmic Alpha4 that's so far worked great. That's also the only way to get the Ext4 benefits, so...yeah, I have to recommend that, bigtime. Jim --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
I rebuilt fresh my HTPC box with Jaunty not long ago with ext4, but I don't really see much of a difference than my favoured reiserfs. I built my video lvm slice with xfs as it comes most recommended for managing large files like the 12-20gb bluray rips it sees now, but once I add some disk space I might check out ext4 to see how it compares. -mb On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 00:49 -0700, Jim March wrote: > Yeah, it was a clean install of Karmic Alpha4 that's so far worked great. > > That's also the only way to get the Ext4 benefits, so...yeah, I have > to recommend that, bigtime. > > Jim > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
The best way to upgrade an OS is to do a fresh install. Nobody can catch everything, these distro's have so much stuff included, there is bound to be some complications. If you are going to do the upgrade route, then I recommend Mondo Rescue. It can make a bare metal backup of your machine and if and when you find any problems that are deal breakers you can roll back. Another thing I always consider when I build a system, is where I put my data. I put all the data I want to keep on a separate disk (I.E. I create a link from /usr/local/ to /mydisk/local/ ) After a fresh install, it's easy to recreate the links There are still files I make copies of (I.E. /etc stuff and other things), I then have a list of files that need to be looked at in the new system. Doing these things makes a fresh install easier. -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Michael Butash Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 12:42 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers... I just upgraded from ibex to jaunty and to Karmic on my laptop, and I've been having some major issues with it. No intel (thank goodness) to deal with, so can't attest to it. Suspend functions for me are now broken, gnome power manager is buggy at best, and my screen saver refuses to work. For a laptop these are killing me... VMware barely works with some hackery, and some of the alsa devices get figured out backward now. Even going from ibex to jaunty, network manager simply refused to adequately control the wireless hardware which was entirely a deal breaker, forcing me to roll the dice on karmic. This all from a perfectly working install in hardy or ibex. Otherwise, I am mostly pleased with the overall performance of it, definitely improved from Ibex. I'm assuming you did a clean install that everything works ok for you? Those typically work well for me too, but upgrades for me have been entirely crapshoots, which is really disappointing as otherwise I'm quite fond of ubuntu. I'm curious what success others have had here with upgrades, as the ubuntu forms tend to indicate it's a perpetual kludge of a process with destruction and mayhem as a result. I've always had major cleanup and fixage after a dist-upgrade. I long ago gave up on Fedora/RedHat when pretty much installing/upgrading/compiling any software just led to dependency hell. This has gotten somewhat better since yellowdog cloned apt with yum for RH-ish distros, but I'm still not ready to bother trying fedora again quite yet. If ubuntu keeps annoying me, perhaps I might. -mb On Mon, 2009-08-17 at 23:39 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote: > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Jim March<1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Folks, > > > > I have a laptop with the mediocre Intel 965/X3100 chipset. In > > Ubuntu Jaunty it ran like a turd until major tweaks were applied, > > and the results weren't 100% stable. Jaunty came out right as the > > Intel video support was in flux and Jaunty basically caught about > > half of what was needed between the kernel, xorg, Intel driver, Mesa and Compiz. > > > > Karmic has the whole package. I've been running it for five days > > now, ever since alpha4 came out, and it's more solid (and FASTER) > > than I ever got out of Jaunty. I did a full re-install with the > > alternate installer (as I use whole disk encryption) and I went with > > Ext4 - it's working great. > > > > On a lark I loaded the 64bit Adobe Flash "alpha" and it's rock solid > > too - best flash Linux experience I've ever had, period, end of > > discussion. > > > > I think Karmic is going to be a really sweet Ubuntu flavor when it > > ships and the improvements in Intel video support are so amazingly > > vast I'd say anybody with at least moderate technical chops able to > > cope with minor pre-release glitches should switch NOW. I'm told > > the fixes also apply perfectly to the Intel 4500 chipset found on > > the newest el cheapo laptops. > > > > WARNING: this applies to all Intel video drivers except the GMA500 > > chipset. That thing is a major turd and will remain so until the > > Ubuntu distro post-Karmic at a minimum. The most common GMA500 > > machine is the Dell "mini 10" I think it's called, and for some > > reason that thing is an excellent Hackintosh candidate. While I'm > > not normally a proponent of running Apple OSX on non-Apple hardware > > (as Apple is actively trying to stomp your install with updates!), > > the difference in support for the GMA500 between Linux
RE: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
Oh trust me, I tar the /etc directory, sync important local directories with unison, and keep everything else on a dedicated filer, but I still don't like having to spend a night reinstalling and tweaking to get it back to where I had it. I don't mind fixing problems when they arise after installs, as I see them as adventures in learning more about systems, but they're no less annoying when they arise. I guess I'm lame in assuming or expecting that if they're going to offer an upgrade function, that it work. Microsoft has punished people for 25 years thinking such heretical thoughts even trying to use their *upgrades* between os's, but it's nice to dream that one day it might just be reality with some os. Ubuntu has been about as close as I've found, though FreeBSD used to be really good about dist-upgrades too when it was my choice in server os. -mb On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 13:14 -0700, Bob Elzer wrote: > The best way to upgrade an OS is to do a fresh install. Nobody can catch > everything, these distro's have so much stuff included, there is bound to be > some complications. > > If you are going to do the upgrade route, then I recommend Mondo Rescue. It > can make a bare metal backup of your machine and if and when you find any > problems that are deal breakers you can roll back. > > Another thing I always consider when I build a system, is where I put my > data. I put all the data I want to keep on a separate disk (I.E. I create a > link from /usr/local/ to /mydisk/local/ ) > > After a fresh install, it's easy to recreate the links > > There are still files I make copies of (I.E. /etc stuff and other things), I > then have a list of files that need to be looked at in the new system. > > Doing these things makes a fresh install easier. > > > -Original Message- > From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Michael > Butash > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 12:42 AM > To: Main PLUG discussion list > Subject: Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers... > > I just upgraded from ibex to jaunty and to Karmic on my laptop, and I've > been having some major issues with it. No intel (thank goodness) to deal > with, so can't attest to it. Suspend functions for me are now broken, gnome > power manager is buggy at best, and my screen saver refuses to work. For a > laptop these are killing me... VMware barely works with some hackery, and > some of the alsa devices get figured out backward now. Even going from ibex > to jaunty, network manager simply refused to adequately control the wireless > hardware which was entirely a deal breaker, forcing me to roll the dice on > karmic. This all from a perfectly working install in hardy or ibex. > Otherwise, I am mostly pleased with the overall performance of it, > definitely improved from Ibex. > > I'm assuming you did a clean install that everything works ok for you? > Those typically work well for me too, but upgrades for me have been entirely > crapshoots, which is really disappointing as otherwise I'm quite fond of > ubuntu. I'm curious what success others have had here with upgrades, as the > ubuntu forms tend to indicate it's a perpetual kludge of a process with > destruction and mayhem as a result. I've always had major cleanup and > fixage after a dist-upgrade. > > I long ago gave up on Fedora/RedHat when pretty much > installing/upgrading/compiling any software just led to dependency hell. > This has gotten somewhat better since yellowdog cloned apt with yum for > RH-ish distros, but I'm still not ready to bother trying fedora again quite > yet. If ubuntu keeps annoying me, perhaps I might. > > -mb > > > On Mon, 2009-08-17 at 23:39 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Jim March<1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > > > I have a laptop with the mediocre Intel 965/X3100 chipset. In > > > Ubuntu Jaunty it ran like a turd until major tweaks were applied, > > > and the results weren't 100% stable. Jaunty came out right as the > > > Intel video support was in flux and Jaunty basically caught about > > > half of what was needed between the kernel, xorg, Intel driver, Mesa and > Compiz. > > > > > > Karmic has the whole package. I've been running it for five days > > > now, ever since alpha4 came out, and it's more solid (and FASTER) > > > than I ever got out of Jaunty. I did a full re-install with the > > > alternate installer (as I use whole disk encryption) and I went with > > > E
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
Michael Butash wrote: > I guess I'm lame in assuming or expecting that if they're going to offer > an upgrade function, that it work. Microsoft has punished people for 25 > years thinking such heretical thoughts even trying to use their > *upgrades* between os's, but it's nice to dream that one day it might > just be reality with some os. Ubuntu has been about as close as I've > found, though FreeBSD used to be really good about dist-upgrades too > when it was my choice in server os. > > -mb Here's a thought; Why do distros even need 'releases' at all? If a constant update cycle was used, rather than one huge dist-upgrade, these problems would hardly ever arise... And when they did, it would be with one or two components, hopefully NOT mission critical, and could be fixed with five minutes of hunting and updating an /etc config file. installer ISOs could be generated weekly or so, or just be netinst images I guess Distrowatch would be out of business in that case. Upgrades suck, I reinstall ;) Ryan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
It's actually a good point Ryan - if they'd just backport more newer builds of software, it would obviate the need for massive upheaval which inevitably breaks half the things it does. The big-bang approach of dist-upgrades between revisions just simply doesn't work as it's been proven throughout time. I understand backports become a problem to maintain for someone like Canonical, but it would seem a necessity to blur that line a bit further than they tend to, or simply have better q/a on their major builds, especially once they actually dub them releases. My motivation to upgrade lately has been mostly centered around networkmanager, pulseaudio, and alsa, which simply doesn't offer much in the way of backports for any older revisions of Ubuntu. I really couldn't give a rat's ass to use the newest kernels most of the time, unless it's new hardware, which means a new install anyways. Some of the periphery software however offers compelling features that I consider a necessity and hence worth the effort of upgrade, just to get some nugget feature that was lacking. Then I end up with more broken than fixed for that one little nugget. Redhat really turned me off from ever compiling anything in linux, where Slackware was my first love that let me compile just about anything safely. Ubuntu is somewhere in between, where I've fallen into recursive dependency recompile hell, but has steadily gotten better to roll my own. This just typically borks any future package updates, that I have to be pretty desperate to want to roll my own. I compile a lot of packages on my HTPC box to get VDPAU accelerated mplayer codes, behaving pulseaudio/alsa, and somewhat stable Boxee/XBMC software, but at that point I don't maintain regular updates at all, security be damned. Either this or I roll the dice on dist-upgrades, and take the kick in the groin when I do. -mb On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 14:39 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote: > Michael Butash wrote: > > I guess I'm lame in assuming or expecting that if they're going to offer > > an upgrade function, that it work. Microsoft has punished people for 25 > > years thinking such heretical thoughts even trying to use their > > *upgrades* between os's, but it's nice to dream that one day it might > > just be reality with some os. Ubuntu has been about as close as I've > > found, though FreeBSD used to be really good about dist-upgrades too > > when it was my choice in server os. > > > > -mb > > Here's a thought; Why do distros even need 'releases' at all? If a > constant update cycle was used, rather than one huge dist-upgrade, these > problems would hardly ever arise... And when they did, it would be with > one or two components, hopefully NOT mission critical, and could be > fixed with five minutes of hunting and updating an /etc config file. > installer ISOs could be generated weekly or so, or just be netinst images > I guess Distrowatch would be out of business in that case. > > Upgrades suck, I reinstall ;) > > Ryan > > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
> Bob Elzer wrote: >> The best way to upgrade an OS is to do a fresh install. How extraordinarily annoying. I have installed Gentoo once on my laptop, when I got it, 3 years ago, and have kept it up to date with the portage system. In most cases, that approach Just Works from what I can see. I'm a huge fan of the gradual update process as done in Gentoo, since it rarely breaks everything and you can almost always tell what broke and then fix it. (Like a few months ago, when libexpat upgrades made all KDE and GNOME apps throw a wobbly. revdep-rebuild to the rescue) From: Michael Butash > don't like having to spend a night reinstalling and tweaking to get > it back to where I had it. I don't mind fixing problems when they > arise after installs, as I see them as adventures in learning more > about systems, but they're no less annoying when they arise. > > I guess I'm lame in assuming or expecting that if they're going to > offer an upgrade function, that it work. Ubuntu's problem AFAICT is that they're trying to be New! Shiny! and Awesome!. This is a worthy goal, but it can lead to the system being as stable as a stegosaurus on rocket-powered roller skates. Debian seems to be much better at the whole upgrade thing because they're so conservative in moving forward in stable. -- Matt G / Dances With Crows The Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress/ There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
Because my widget still relies on those square pegs, so that means everybody's widget has to be changed at the same time. Or it won't work. lol Oh and I'm still using that same widget I had back in 1980. But it still works. -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Ryan Rix Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:40 PM To: mich...@butash.net; Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers... Michael Butash wrote: > I guess I'm lame in assuming or expecting that if they're going to > offer an upgrade function, that it work. Microsoft has punished > people for 25 years thinking such heretical thoughts even trying to > use their > *upgrades* between os's, but it's nice to dream that one day it might > just be reality with some os. Ubuntu has been about as close as I've > found, though FreeBSD used to be really good about dist-upgrades too > when it was my choice in server os. > > -mb Here's a thought; Why do distros even need 'releases' at all? If a constant update cycle was used, rather than one huge dist-upgrade, these problems would hardly ever arise... And when they did, it would be with one or two components, hopefully NOT mission critical, and could be fixed with five minutes of hunting and updating an /etc config file. installer ISOs could be generated weekly or so, or just be netinst images I guess Distrowatch would be out of business in that case. Upgrades suck, I reinstall ;) Ryan --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 14:39 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote: > Michael Butash wrote: > > I guess I'm lame in assuming or expecting that if they're going to offer > > an upgrade function, that it work. Microsoft has punished people for 25 > > years thinking such heretical thoughts even trying to use their > > *upgrades* between os's, but it's nice to dream that one day it might > > just be reality with some os. Ubuntu has been about as close as I've > > found, though FreeBSD used to be really good about dist-upgrades too > > when it was my choice in server os. > > > > -mb > > Here's a thought; Why do distros even need 'releases' at all? If a > constant update cycle was used, rather than one huge dist-upgrade, these > problems would hardly ever arise... And when they did, it would be with > one or two components, hopefully NOT mission critical, and could be > fixed with five minutes of hunting and updating an /etc config file. > installer ISOs could be generated weekly or so, or just be netinst images > I guess Distrowatch would be out of business in that case. > > Upgrades suck, I reinstall ;) unfortunately it is not all around making your life easier but rather there are libraries which provide dependencies for many different packages and the incremental option will always hold back items because software X requires newer version of library Y and software Z can live with either but must be rebuilt to use library Y which is updated for software X It doesn't take long to figure this out when you start getting involved with packaging software. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Matt Graham wrote: > > How extraordinarily annoying. I have installed Gentoo once on my > laptop, when I got it, 3 years ago, and have kept it up to date with > the portage system. I'm not surprised since it takes about 3 years to run 'emerge -u world' :-P --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
" This is a worthy goal, but it can lead to the system being as stable as a stegosaurus on rocket-powered roller skates." This honestly to me would be very stable as he would squash the skates and suffocate the rockets... :-D On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Matt Graham wrote: >> Bob Elzer wrote: >>> The best way to upgrade an OS is to do a fresh install. -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
only on those ever so powerful p4's ;-) On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Jared Anderson wrote: > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Matt Graham > wrote: >> >> How extraordinarily annoying. I have installed Gentoo once on my >> laptop, when I got it, 3 years ago, and have kept it up to date with >> the portage system. > > I'm not surprised since it takes about 3 years to run 'emerge -u world' :-P > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
Well, I haven't used gentoo, but I have used Redhat, Fedora, Centos, AIX, HP-UX NCR-MPRAS, Ultrix, DG-UX, Ubuntu, OSF1/Tru64, Solaris, Slackware, yggdrasil, and probably bunch I'm forgetting. Oh yeah and a bunch of MS windows systems. Sometimes upgrades work, but most times it's easier to do the fresh install. With a fresh install you know you're using the latest drivers and library's, not some old ones that are still laying around and were missed in the delete, or because they were being used during the upgrade. Another thing a fresh install does, is get rid of all that extraneous crap, like tons of upgrade files. When you upgrade stuff, you don't know if it's working and using all the new stuff, or because it's using some old stuff lying around. Fresh installs aren't perfect either, so sometimes you have to skip and upgrade, anyone remember redhat 8. And as some say, if it ain't broke. As one Control Data Business plan proved, when we went to a proprietary system to Unix. Management said everyone will want the new stuff. 80% said, it wasn't broke. Thus the end of a great product. Because CDC stopped making the old equipment. LOL -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Matt Graham Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 3:02 PM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: RE: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers... > Bob Elzer wrote: >> The best way to upgrade an OS is to do a fresh install. How extraordinarily annoying. I have installed Gentoo once on my laptop, when I got it, 3 years ago, and have kept it up to date with the portage system. In most cases, that approach Just Works from what I can see. I'm a huge fan of the gradual update process as done in Gentoo, since it rarely breaks everything and you can almost always tell what broke and then fix it. (Like a few months ago, when libexpat upgrades made all KDE and GNOME apps throw a wobbly. revdep-rebuild to the rescue) From: Michael Butash > don't like having to spend a night reinstalling and tweaking to get it > back to where I had it. I don't mind fixing problems when they arise > after installs, as I see them as adventures in learning more about > systems, but they're no less annoying when they arise. > > I guess I'm lame in assuming or expecting that if they're going to > offer an upgrade function, that it work. Ubuntu's problem AFAICT is that they're trying to be New! Shiny! and Awesome!. This is a worthy goal, but it can lead to the system being as stable as a stegosaurus on rocket-powered roller skates. Debian seems to be much better at the whole upgrade thing because they're so conservative in moving forward in stable. -- Matt G / Dances With Crows The Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress/ There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
I've never seen a stegosaurus on rocket-powered roller skates loose their balance ever. :-) -Original Message- From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 3:29 PM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers... " This is a worthy goal, but it can lead to the system being as stable as a stegosaurus on rocket-powered roller skates." This honestly to me would be very stable as he would squash the skates and suffocate the rockets... :-D On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Matt Graham wrote: >> Bob Elzer wrote: >>> The best way to upgrade an OS is to do a fresh install. -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
Craig White wrote: > unfortunately it is not all around making your life easier but rather > there are libraries which provide dependencies for many different > packages and the incremental option will always hold back items because > software X requires newer version of library Y and software Z can live > with either but must be rebuilt to use library Y which is updated for > software X > > It doesn't take long to figure this out when you start getting involved > with packaging software. > > Craig > That's because debian's package manager SUCKS and can't even install multiple versions of a package at once. Apparently it only knows about the latest package release, older packages are removed entirely. Portage, what Gentoo uses (and some other distros too iirc), has it right (except for the fact it is written in Python). It can compile from source or install a binary, and install multiple versions of a package if necessary to resolve a dependency (or maybe you just want to have multiple web browsers for testing, you can do that too). You can specify what features you want to install, why bother supporting apache if you are never going to use it? You just specify the list of packages you personally depend on (the special "world" package) and features (USE flags), and it figures out everything it needs to do. Austin Wright. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic" Alpha4 and the Intel video drivers...
On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 15:02 -0700, Matt Graham wrote: > Ubuntu's problem AFAICT is that they're trying to be New! Shiny! and > Awesome!. This is a worthy goal, but it can lead to the system > being as stable as a stegosaurus on rocket-powered roller skates. > Debian seems to be much better at the whole upgrade thing because > they're so conservative in moving forward in stable. Which is basically the difference between a standard release and an LTS release. The LTS releases are conservative, while the more standard releases look at user features as well as risk. Sometimes the benefit long term is worth a little risk short term. At the end of the day, release management is a real pain. If it's for your own project where you're the only developer, it's a pain because you have to stop developing to do it. If there's more than one, you have to start agreeing on when to freeze, etc. When there's thousands of developers on thousands of projects -- I'm glad that I'm not a release manager for a distro. Just to add some information to the discussion. All Ubuntu releases are tested as upgrades from the previous release and from the last LTS (e.g. Hardy -> Karmic). Of course that can't cover every package everywhere, but some testing is done in that regard. Also, to cover settings that require some user interaction in Jaunty the "Computer Janitor" has been added to try and clean up the stuff that "may be on purpose." Personally, I only clean install when I get new hard drives. --Ted signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
