Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Simon]

This hasn't had the take up I hoped it would have from the community,
but I'm ready to get the ball rolling and cough up with my committed offer.
Just give me that bank account number please?

Simon

On 21 May 2011 05:55, DaveG  wrote:

>
>
> On 5/20/2011 3:29 AM, Petko Yotov wrote:
>
>> On Friday 20 May 2011 05:01:10, Radu Luchian wrote :
>>
>>> Quote from top of donations page: "Also note that although Petko has
>>> estimated the likely effort, no-one has yet committed to actually doing
>>> the
>>> work."
>>>
>>> ... and further down, quoting Petko's email: "The cost of this work is
>>> estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't collect VAT. A receipt or
>>> a
>>> number of receipts will be available."
>>>
>>> That last part sounded pretty committed to me...
>>>
>>
>> Indeed, that part sounds committed.
>>
> I was not comfortable writing a commitment on someone else's behalf --
> hence the original text. Text on the page has been changed.
>
>
>
>  I'm not sure if the word "donations" is correct. When you hire a
>> contractor,
>> do you make donations to his company? When you go to work, are they paying
>> you
>> in donations? (English is not my native language, but in the other
>> languages I
>> use, the word is different.)
>>
> Donation is probably a little more volunteer oriented. I've changed the
> page to consistently use 'pledge'. Also moved the page over to
> Cookbook/WYSIWYGFundDrive, original page redirects.
>
>  ~ ~ Dave
>
>
___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[DaveG]

On 5/20/2011 3:29 AM, Petko Yotov wrote:

On Friday 20 May 2011 05:01:10, Radu Luchian wrote :

Quote from top of donations page: "Also note that although Petko has
estimated the likely effort, no-one has yet committed to actually doing the
work."

... and further down, quoting Petko's email: "The cost of this work is
estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't collect VAT. A receipt or a
number of receipts will be available."

That last part sounded pretty committed to me...


Indeed, that part sounds committed.
I was not comfortable writing a commitment on someone else's behalf -- 
hence the original text. Text on the page has been changed.




I'm not sure if the word "donations" is correct. When you hire a contractor,
do you make donations to his company? When you go to work, are they paying you
in donations? (English is not my native language, but in the other languages I
use, the word is different.)
Donation is probably a little more volunteer oriented. I've changed the 
page to consistently use 'pledge'. Also moved the page over to 
Cookbook/WYSIWYGFundDrive, original page redirects.


 ~ ~ Dave

___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Petko Yotov]

On Friday 20 May 2011 05:01:10, Radu Luchian wrote :
> Quote from top of donations page: "Also note that although Petko has
> estimated the likely effort, no-one has yet committed to actually doing the
> work."
> 
> ... and further down, quoting Petko's email: "The cost of this work is
> estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't collect VAT. A receipt or a
> number of receipts will be available."
> 
> That last part sounded pretty committed to me...

Indeed, that part sounds committed.

I'm not sure if the word "donations" is correct. When you hire a contractor, 
do you make donations to his company? When you go to work, are they paying you 
in donations? (English is not my native language, but in the other languages I 
use, the word is different.)

> Petko, you mentioned that you have a list of things you plan to do for the
> editor; what's on the donations page sounds pretty vague.

As I mentioned already, the thing is not yet written, it needs planning and 
some decisions need to be made before it works. We have a goal (visual rich 
text editing in PmWiki), we don't have all the technical details of exactly 
how it will be done - if someone did, the thing would have been written.

> Especially "The
> rich-text editor will be in addition to the normal wiki-text editor."
> sounds strange... why have 2 toolbars?

I intend to keep the ?action=edit mode that is used now, and likely to have a 
different mode ?action=something that will enable editing of rich-text page 
sections.

> Are we going to wind up with html AND wiki markup in the pages? 

Extremely unlileky.

> I could not make it cross-browser - it
> would work only in IE5.5, so I gave it up.

The RTE will most likely not work in antique browsers. I'll do my best for it 
to work in the browsers, currently used by at least 2/3 of the desktop users.

  http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php#dashboard

Petko

___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Ville Takanen]

I agree.

If the WYSIWYG edit is complementary to normal wiki edit - supporting older
browsers for WYSIWYG is not really worth the effort. Especially as (IIRC
and) IE8 is available on WinXP.

ps.
Petkos Alpha version is excellent POC work. I feel that WYSIWYG should only
support basic wikisyntax and just display all directives etc as inline
wiki-code. IMO the WYSIWYG's main audience is basic users and quick editing.
Not page layout or wiki content design.

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Simon  wrote:

> Re Browsers, I wouldn't hope for support for more than a subset of
> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/
> perhaps Chrome, IE8/9, Firefox 4, Opera 11.
>
> cheers
>
> S
>
>
> On 20 May 2011 15:01, Radu Luchian  wrote:
>
>> I could not make it cross-browser - it would work only in IE5.5, so I gave
>> it up.
>>
>>
> ___
> pmwiki-users mailing list
> pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
> http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users
>
>


-- 
--
Ville Takanen
___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Simon]

Re Browsers, I wouldn't hope for support for more than a subset of
http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/
perhaps Chrome, IE8/9, Firefox 4, Opera 11.

cheers

S


On 20 May 2011 15:01, Radu Luchian  wrote:

> I could not make it cross-browser - it would work only in IE5.5, so I gave
> it up.
>
>
___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Radu Luchian]

Quote from top of donations page: "Also note that although Petko has
estimated the likely effort, no-one has yet committed to actually doing the
work."

... and further down, quoting Petko's email: "The cost of this work is
estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't collect VAT. A receipt or a
number of receipts will be available."

That last part sounded pretty committed to me...

Petko, you mentioned that you have a list of things you plan to do for the
editor; what's on the donations page sounds pretty vague. Especially "The
rich-text editor will be in addition to the normal wiki-text editor." sounds
strange... why have 2 toolbars?

Are we going to wind up with html AND wiki markup in the pages? If so, I
would not use it... I worked a bit a while ago on a layer-based toggle
(working in a rich-text field that would switch to a normal edit textarea
with the markup exposed and back). I could not make it cross-browser - it
would work only in IE5.5, so I gave it up.

Cheers,
Radu


On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 18:57, DaveG  wrote:

> I added a page Cookbook/WYSIWYG-donations, and included the pledges made in
> this thread. For those who pledged, please check I have your information
> correct.
>
>
>  ~ ~ Dave
>
>
>
> On 5/17/2011 9:10 PM, Patrick R. Michaud wrote:
>
>> I'm willing to set up whatever accounts etc. are needed to
>> sure the funds all make it to the right places, whether that's
>> through pledgie, kickstarter, etc.  (I have plenty of paypal,
>> amazon associate, etc. accounts that I can use for this.)
>>
>> But I don't want to start setting things up until we have at
>> least 60% of the pledges needed to reach the goal.  So, until
>> then it might be worthwhile to just create a page on PmWiki.org
>> describing the campaign, the target, what will be delivered,
>> and how close we are to the final goal.  When the number reaches
>> around 60% of the total, I'll start making the official transfer
>> channels open.
>>
>> Pm
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 05:56:31PM -0400, DaveG wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps something like pledgie http://pledgie.com/site/faq (used
>>> within Github for project support) would be useful to track
>>> commitments to the goal.
>>>
>>> I'd set it up, but the recipient needs to enter a Paypal address to
>>> facilitate funds transfer.
>>>
>>>
>>>  ~ ~ Dave
>>>
>>> On 5/14/2011 5:25 PM, Al Louis Ripskis wrote:
>>>
 Petko Yotov<5...@5ko.fr>Sent: May 14, 2011 3:36 PM
> The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
> collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.
>
 Guys,
 I'm relatively new to this list, so I have no idea how this type of
 contract has been handled in the past.
 My first instinct would be to consult Pm on this. Also how would the
 collection be handled?
 As to the cost, it of course would depend on how many of would
 contribute.
 Today the euro to $US dollar rate is 1 to 1.411. So 2100 euros translate
 to $US2,963.10.
 So if a 100 of us contributed, it would be $29.63 each.
 If 50 then it would be $59.26.
 If thirty, then it would be $98.77, or round off to $100.
 Now could we have a show of hands--or in this case e-mails--as to how
 many of you and how much you would be willing to contribute.
 I'll start of with $100, if necessary.
 Cheers,
 Al

  To: Al Louis Ripskis
> Cc: pmwiki-users
> Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [pmwiki-users] Follow-Up:Whither WYSIWYG?
> Contract/Contribution
>
> On Saturday 14 May 2011 14:30:30 Al Louis Ripskis wrote:
>
>> Did my email slip through the cracks? Or is there some
>> other reason why you haven't responded?
>>
>
> It is not easy to estimate this kind of work. Such a module can be done
> fairly
> quickly (2-3 days) but without a good integration with PmWiki and with
> potential security holes, as a couple of users expressed their
> concerns.
>
> PmWiki has lots of features and different configurations. Such a module
> has to
> work in many different environments, like different settings for
> passwords,
> diffrent uploads directories, different servers, and different
> browsers.
> Additional modules need to be written - file picker (with thumbnails?),
> asynchronous uploader (upload a file while you edit a page), internal
> link
> picker (autocomplete?). The most difficult decision is how to store and
> differenciate the feature-limited RichText input from wiki-code which
> can have
> unlimited features and local customizations.
>
> Last but not least, it is not possible to write such a complex program
> at once
> - there will certainly be bugs to be fixed as they are uncovered,
> features
> added or changed, and the module has to be supported in the future.
>
>  "What do you estimate it would take to do it, and how long would it
>> take? What cost?"
>>

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[DaveG]

On 5/18/2011 8:38 AM, Al Louis Ripskis wrote:

Sent: May 17, 2011 9:57 PM; DaveG wrote:
I added a page Cookbook/WYSIWYG-donations, and included the pledges made
in this thread. For those who pledged, please check I have your
information correct.


Hey, Dave, I'm real glad to see that you set up our "Score Card," even 
reflecting the changes in the euro/USD exchange rates.
Are you going to be updating it regularly?
The page is there. Contributors can either edit the page direct, or as I 
see pledges via the list, I'll add them to the page.


If you mean will I be updating the USD/EU exchange rate -- probably not. 
Unless there is a real tectonic shift in rates the variation is too 
small to be concerned with.



 ~ ~ David

___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Al Louis Ripskis]

>Sent: May 17, 2011 9:57 PM; DaveG wrote:
>I added a page Cookbook/WYSIWYG-donations, and included the pledges made 
>in this thread. For those who pledged, please check I have your 
>information correct.

Hey, Dave, I'm real glad to see that you set up our "Score Card," even 
reflecting the changes in the euro/USD exchange rates.
Are you going to be updating it regularly?
Thanks,
Al 


-Original Message-
>From: DaveG 
>Sent: May 17, 2011 9:57 PM
>To: pmwiki-users 
>Subject: Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2,963 bid for WYSIWYG 
>capability
>
>I added a page Cookbook/WYSIWYG-donations, and included the pledges made 
>in this thread. For those who pledged, please check I have your 
>information correct.
>
>
>  ~ ~ Dave
>
>
>On 5/17/2011 9:10 PM, Patrick R. Michaud wrote:
>> I'm willing to set up whatever accounts etc. are needed to
>> sure the funds all make it to the right places, whether that's
>> through pledgie, kickstarter, etc.  (I have plenty of paypal,
>> amazon associate, etc. accounts that I can use for this.)
>>
>> But I don't want to start setting things up until we have at
>> least 60% of the pledges needed to reach the goal.  So, until
>> then it might be worthwhile to just create a page on PmWiki.org
>> describing the campaign, the target, what will be delivered,
>> and how close we are to the final goal.  When the number reaches
>> around 60% of the total, I'll start making the official transfer
>> channels open.
>>
>> Pm
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 05:56:31PM -0400, DaveG wrote:
>>> Perhaps something like pledgie http://pledgie.com/site/faq (used
>>> within Github for project support) would be useful to track
>>> commitments to the goal.
>>>
>>> I'd set it up, but the recipient needs to enter a Paypal address to
>>> facilitate funds transfer.
>>>
>>>
>>>   ~ ~ Dave
>>>
>>> On 5/14/2011 5:25 PM, Al Louis Ripskis wrote:
>>>>> Petko Yotov<5...@5ko.fr>Sent: May 14, 2011 3:36 PM
>>>>> The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
>>>>> collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.
>>>> Guys,
>>>> I'm relatively new to this list, so I have no idea how this type of 
>>>> contract has been handled in the past.
>>>> My first instinct would be to consult Pm on this. Also how would the 
>>>> collection be handled?
>>>> As to the cost, it of course would depend on how many of would contribute.
>>>> Today the euro to $US dollar rate is 1 to 1.411. So 2100 euros translate 
>>>> to $US2,963.10.
>>>> So if a 100 of us contributed, it would be $29.63 each.
>>>> If 50 then it would be $59.26.
>>>> If thirty, then it would be $98.77, or round off to $100.
>>>> Now could we have a show of hands--or in this case e-mails--as to how many 
>>>> of you and how much you would be willing to contribute.
>>>> I'll start of with $100, if necessary.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Al
>>>>
>>>>> To: Al Louis Ripskis
>>>>> Cc: pmwiki-users
>>>>> Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [pmwiki-users] Follow-Up:Whither WYSIWYG? 
>>>>> Contract/Contribution
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday 14 May 2011 14:30:30 Al Louis Ripskis wrote:
>>>>>> Did my email slip through the cracks? Or is there some
>>>>>> other reason why you haven't responded?
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not easy to estimate this kind of work. Such a module can be done 
>>>>> fairly
>>>>> quickly (2-3 days) but without a good integration with PmWiki and with
>>>>> potential security holes, as a couple of users expressed their concerns.
>>>>>
>>>>> PmWiki has lots of features and different configurations. Such a module 
>>>>> has to
>>>>> work in many different environments, like different settings for 
>>>>> passwords,
>>>>> diffrent uploads directories, different servers, and different browsers.
>>>>> Additional modules need to be written - file picker (with thumbnails?),
>>>>> asynchronous uploader (upload a file while you edit a page), internal link
>>>>> picker (autocomplete?). The most difficult decision is how to store and
>>>>> differenciate the feature-limited RichText input from wiki-code which can 
>>>>> h

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[DaveG]

I added a page Cookbook/WYSIWYG-donations, and included the pledges made 
in this thread. For those who pledged, please check I have your 
information correct.



 ~ ~ Dave


On 5/17/2011 9:10 PM, Patrick R. Michaud wrote:

I'm willing to set up whatever accounts etc. are needed to
sure the funds all make it to the right places, whether that's
through pledgie, kickstarter, etc.  (I have plenty of paypal,
amazon associate, etc. accounts that I can use for this.)

But I don't want to start setting things up until we have at
least 60% of the pledges needed to reach the goal.  So, until
then it might be worthwhile to just create a page on PmWiki.org
describing the campaign, the target, what will be delivered,
and how close we are to the final goal.  When the number reaches
around 60% of the total, I'll start making the official transfer
channels open.

Pm


On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 05:56:31PM -0400, DaveG wrote:

Perhaps something like pledgie http://pledgie.com/site/faq (used
within Github for project support) would be useful to track
commitments to the goal.

I'd set it up, but the recipient needs to enter a Paypal address to
facilitate funds transfer.


  ~ ~ Dave

On 5/14/2011 5:25 PM, Al Louis Ripskis wrote:

Petko Yotov<5...@5ko.fr>Sent: May 14, 2011 3:36 PM
The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.

Guys,
I'm relatively new to this list, so I have no idea how this type of contract 
has been handled in the past.
My first instinct would be to consult Pm on this. Also how would the collection 
be handled?
As to the cost, it of course would depend on how many of would contribute.
Today the euro to $US dollar rate is 1 to 1.411. So 2100 euros translate to 
$US2,963.10.
So if a 100 of us contributed, it would be $29.63 each.
If 50 then it would be $59.26.
If thirty, then it would be $98.77, or round off to $100.
Now could we have a show of hands--or in this case e-mails--as to how many of 
you and how much you would be willing to contribute.
I'll start of with $100, if necessary.
Cheers,
Al


To: Al Louis Ripskis
Cc: pmwiki-users
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [pmwiki-users] Follow-Up:Whither WYSIWYG? 
Contract/Contribution

On Saturday 14 May 2011 14:30:30 Al Louis Ripskis wrote:

Did my email slip through the cracks? Or is there some
other reason why you haven't responded?


It is not easy to estimate this kind of work. Such a module can be done fairly
quickly (2-3 days) but without a good integration with PmWiki and with
potential security holes, as a couple of users expressed their concerns.

PmWiki has lots of features and different configurations. Such a module has to
work in many different environments, like different settings for passwords,
diffrent uploads directories, different servers, and different browsers.
Additional modules need to be written - file picker (with thumbnails?),
asynchronous uploader (upload a file while you edit a page), internal link
picker (autocomplete?). The most difficult decision is how to store and
differenciate the feature-limited RichText input from wiki-code which can have
unlimited features and local customizations.

Last but not least, it is not possible to write such a complex program at once
- there will certainly be bugs to be fixed as they are uncovered, features
added or changed, and the module has to be supported in the future.


"What do you estimate it would take to do it, and how long would it
take? What cost?"


Here is a Quote:

2 weeks of work for a working beta prototype, including:
* integration with PmWiki pages, passwords and upload directories
* modules file picker/uploader, link picker
* full documentation
* 1 year bugfixing/support on the Cookbook Talk page or in the PITS
* free software under the GNU GPL, MIT-style license or WTFPL/PD (the best
things in life are free)

The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.

Note that the features of the rich-text editor will be limited - not all
existing HTML tags or attributes can be available, and not all PmWiki markups
can have a rich-text "button". The rich-text editor will be in addition to the
normal wiki-text editor.

Thanks,
Petko





___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users





___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Patrick R. Michaud]

I'm willing to set up whatever accounts etc. are needed to
sure the funds all make it to the right places, whether that's
through pledgie, kickstarter, etc.  (I have plenty of paypal,
amazon associate, etc. accounts that I can use for this.)

But I don't want to start setting things up until we have at 
least 60% of the pledges needed to reach the goal.  So, until
then it might be worthwhile to just create a page on PmWiki.org
describing the campaign, the target, what will be delivered,
and how close we are to the final goal.  When the number reaches
around 60% of the total, I'll start making the official transfer
channels open.

Pm


On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 05:56:31PM -0400, DaveG wrote:
> Perhaps something like pledgie http://pledgie.com/site/faq (used
> within Github for project support) would be useful to track
> commitments to the goal.
> 
> I'd set it up, but the recipient needs to enter a Paypal address to
> facilitate funds transfer.
> 
> 
>  ~ ~ Dave
> 
> On 5/14/2011 5:25 PM, Al Louis Ripskis wrote:
> >>Petko Yotov<5...@5ko.fr>Sent: May 14, 2011 3:36 PM
> >>The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
> >>collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.
> >Guys,
> >I'm relatively new to this list, so I have no idea how this type of contract 
> >has been handled in the past.
> >My first instinct would be to consult Pm on this. Also how would the 
> >collection be handled?
> >As to the cost, it of course would depend on how many of would contribute.
> >Today the euro to $US dollar rate is 1 to 1.411. So 2100 euros translate to 
> >$US2,963.10.
> >So if a 100 of us contributed, it would be $29.63 each.
> >If 50 then it would be $59.26.
> >If thirty, then it would be $98.77, or round off to $100.
> >Now could we have a show of hands--or in this case e-mails--as to how many 
> >of you and how much you would be willing to contribute.
> >I'll start of with $100, if necessary.
> >Cheers,
> >Al
> >
> >>To: Al Louis Ripskis
> >>Cc: pmwiki-users
> >>Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [pmwiki-users] Follow-Up:Whither WYSIWYG? 
> >>Contract/Contribution
> >>
> >>On Saturday 14 May 2011 14:30:30 Al Louis Ripskis wrote:
> >>>Did my email slip through the cracks? Or is there some
> >>>other reason why you haven't responded?
> >>
> >>It is not easy to estimate this kind of work. Such a module can be done 
> >>fairly
> >>quickly (2-3 days) but without a good integration with PmWiki and with
> >>potential security holes, as a couple of users expressed their concerns.
> >>
> >>PmWiki has lots of features and different configurations. Such a module has 
> >>to
> >>work in many different environments, like different settings for passwords,
> >>diffrent uploads directories, different servers, and different browsers.
> >>Additional modules need to be written - file picker (with thumbnails?),
> >>asynchronous uploader (upload a file while you edit a page), internal link
> >>picker (autocomplete?). The most difficult decision is how to store and
> >>differenciate the feature-limited RichText input from wiki-code which can 
> >>have
> >>unlimited features and local customizations.
> >>
> >>Last but not least, it is not possible to write such a complex program at 
> >>once
> >>- there will certainly be bugs to be fixed as they are uncovered, features
> >>added or changed, and the module has to be supported in the future.
> >>
> >>>"What do you estimate it would take to do it, and how long would it
> >>>take? What cost?"
> >>
> >>Here is a Quote:
> >>
> >>2 weeks of work for a working beta prototype, including:
> >>* integration with PmWiki pages, passwords and upload directories
> >>* modules file picker/uploader, link picker
> >>* full documentation
> >>* 1 year bugfixing/support on the Cookbook Talk page or in the PITS
> >>* free software under the GNU GPL, MIT-style license or WTFPL/PD (the best
> >>things in life are free)
> >>
> >>The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
> >>collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.
> >>
> >>Note that the features of the rich-text editor will be limited - not all
> >>existing HTML tags or attributes can be available, and not all PmWiki 
> >>markups
> >>can have a rich-text "button". The rich-text editor will be in addition to 
> >>the
> >>normal wiki-text editor.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Petko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >___
> >pmwiki-users mailing list
> >pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
> >http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users
> >

___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[DaveG]

Perhaps something like pledgie http://pledgie.com/site/faq (used within 
Github for project support) would be useful to track commitments to the 
goal.


I'd set it up, but the recipient needs to enter a Paypal address to 
facilitate funds transfer.



 ~ ~ Dave

On 5/14/2011 5:25 PM, Al Louis Ripskis wrote:

Petko Yotov<5...@5ko.fr>Sent: May 14, 2011 3:36 PM
The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.

Guys,
I'm relatively new to this list, so I have no idea how this type of contract 
has been handled in the past.
My first instinct would be to consult Pm on this. Also how would the collection 
be handled?
As to the cost, it of course would depend on how many of would contribute.
Today the euro to $US dollar rate is 1 to 1.411. So 2100 euros translate to 
$US2,963.10.
So if a 100 of us contributed, it would be $29.63 each.
If 50 then it would be $59.26.
If thirty, then it would be $98.77, or round off to $100.
Now could we have a show of hands--or in this case e-mails--as to how many of 
you and how much you would be willing to contribute.
I'll start of with $100, if necessary.
Cheers,
Al


To: Al Louis Ripskis
Cc: pmwiki-users
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [pmwiki-users] Follow-Up:Whither WYSIWYG? 
Contract/Contribution

On Saturday 14 May 2011 14:30:30 Al Louis Ripskis wrote:

Did my email slip through the cracks? Or is there some
other reason why you haven't responded?


It is not easy to estimate this kind of work. Such a module can be done fairly
quickly (2-3 days) but without a good integration with PmWiki and with
potential security holes, as a couple of users expressed their concerns.

PmWiki has lots of features and different configurations. Such a module has to
work in many different environments, like different settings for passwords,
diffrent uploads directories, different servers, and different browsers.
Additional modules need to be written - file picker (with thumbnails?),
asynchronous uploader (upload a file while you edit a page), internal link
picker (autocomplete?). The most difficult decision is how to store and
differenciate the feature-limited RichText input from wiki-code which can have
unlimited features and local customizations.

Last but not least, it is not possible to write such a complex program at once
- there will certainly be bugs to be fixed as they are uncovered, features
added or changed, and the module has to be supported in the future.


"What do you estimate it would take to do it, and how long would it
take? What cost?"


Here is a Quote:

2 weeks of work for a working beta prototype, including:
* integration with PmWiki pages, passwords and upload directories
* modules file picker/uploader, link picker
* full documentation
* 1 year bugfixing/support on the Cookbook Talk page or in the PITS
* free software under the GNU GPL, MIT-style license or WTFPL/PD (the best
things in life are free)

The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.

Note that the features of the rich-text editor will be limited - not all
existing HTML tags or attributes can be available, and not all PmWiki markups
can have a rich-text "button". The rich-text editor will be in addition to the
normal wiki-text editor.

Thanks,
Petko





___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users



___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Radu Luchian]

Thank you, Finar. For the record, another $45 for the visual editor project.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:19, Philipp Kazakow  wrote:

> Yes, thanks, it looks like it can be done this way.
> OK, please take my email fi...@finar.ru in the list of contributers with
> 45$ donation.
>
> Finar.
>
>
>
>
> 2011/5/17 Radu Luchian 
>
>> PayPal takes Visa cards. Have you tried it on paypal.com?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 03:40, Philipp Kazakow  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> I'm ready to donate around 40-50$, but I really do not know how to do it.
>>> Here in Russia we do not have PayPal. Is there any way to donate via Visa
>>> Classic card? Or probably make a transfer via Western 
>>> Union?
>>>
>>>
>>> Finar.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011/5/15 Al Louis Ripskis 
>>>
 > Petko Yotov <5...@5ko.fr >Sent: May 14, 2011 3:36 PM
 >The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
 >collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.
 Guys,
 I'm relatively new to this list, so I have no idea how this type of
 contract has been handled in the past.
 My first instinct would be to consult Pm on this. Also how would the
 collection be handled?
 As to the cost, it of course would depend on how many of would
 contribute.
 Today the euro to $US dollar rate is 1 to 1.411. So 2100 euros translate
 to $US2,963.10.
 So if a 100 of us contributed, it would be $29.63 each.
 If 50 then it would be $59.26.
 If thirty, then it would be $98.77, or round off to $100.
 Now could we have a show of hands--or in this case e-mails--as to how
 many of you and how much you would be willing to contribute.
 I'll start of with $100, if necessary.
 Cheers,
 Al

 >To: Al Louis Ripskis 
 >Cc: pmwiki-users 
 >Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [pmwiki-users] Follow-Up:Whither WYSIWYG?
 Contract/Contribution
 >
 >On Saturday 14 May 2011 14:30:30 Al Louis Ripskis wrote:
 >> Did my email slip through the cracks? Or is there some
 >> other reason why you haven't responded?
 >
 >It is not easy to estimate this kind of work. Such a module can be done
 fairly
 >quickly (2-3 days) but without a good integration with PmWiki and with
 >potential security holes, as a couple of users expressed their
 concerns.
 >
 >PmWiki has lots of features and different configurations. Such a module
 has to
 >work in many different environments, like different settings for
 passwords,
 >diffrent uploads directories, different servers, and different
 browsers.
 >Additional modules need to be written - file picker (with thumbnails?),
 >asynchronous uploader (upload a file while you edit a page), internal
 link
 >picker (autocomplete?). The most difficult decision is how to store and
 >differenciate the feature-limited RichText input from wiki-code which
 can have
 >unlimited features and local customizations.
 >
 >Last but not least, it is not possible to write such a complex program
 at once
 >- there will certainly be bugs to be fixed as they are uncovered,
 features
 >added or changed, and the module has to be supported in the future.
 >
 >> "What do you estimate it would take to do it, and how long would it
 >> take? What cost?"
 >
 >Here is a Quote:
 >
 >2 weeks of work for a working beta prototype, including:
 >* integration with PmWiki pages, passwords and upload directories
 >* modules file picker/uploader, link picker
 >* full documentation
 >* 1 year bugfixing/support on the Cookbook Talk page or in the PITS
 >* free software under the GNU GPL, MIT-style license or WTFPL/PD (the
 best
 >things in life are free)
 >
 >The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
 >collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.
 >
 >Note that the features of the rich-text editor will be limited - not
 all
 >existing HTML tags or attributes can be available, and not all PmWiki
 markups
 >can have a rich-text "button". The rich-text editor will be in addition
 to the
 >normal wiki-text editor.
 >
 >Thanks,
 >Petko




 ___
 pmwiki-users mailing list
 pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
 http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> pmwiki-users mailing list
>>> pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
>>> http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users
>>>
>>>
>>
>
___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Russ]

If there's enough support to get to the US$2,900, I'll also be in for 
US$100.  Do we want to set up a "fundable" campaign (or similar) to take 
pledges, that automatically takes payment when we reach the target, or 
can Pm run it through the "donate to Pm" account?


Russ Jackman




2011/5/15 Al Louis Ripskis >



So if a 100 of us contributed, it would be $29.63 each.
If 50 then it would be $59.26.
If thirty, then it would be $98.77, or round off to $100.
Now could we have a show of hands--or in this case e-mails--as to
how many of you and how much you would be willing to contribute.
I'll start of with $100, if necessary.
Cheers,
Al


___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Philipp Kazakow]

Hello!

I'm ready to donate around 40-50$, but I really do not know how to do it.
Here in Russia we do not have PayPal. Is there any way to donate via Visa
Classic card? Or probably make a transfer via Western
Union?


Finar.


2011/5/15 Al Louis Ripskis 

> > Petko Yotov <5...@5ko.fr >Sent: May 14, 2011 3:36 PM
> >The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
> >collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.
> Guys,
> I'm relatively new to this list, so I have no idea how this type of
> contract has been handled in the past.
> My first instinct would be to consult Pm on this. Also how would the
> collection be handled?
> As to the cost, it of course would depend on how many of would contribute.
> Today the euro to $US dollar rate is 1 to 1.411. So 2100 euros translate to
> $US2,963.10.
> So if a 100 of us contributed, it would be $29.63 each.
> If 50 then it would be $59.26.
> If thirty, then it would be $98.77, or round off to $100.
> Now could we have a show of hands--or in this case e-mails--as to how many
> of you and how much you would be willing to contribute.
> I'll start of with $100, if necessary.
> Cheers,
> Al
>
> >To: Al Louis Ripskis 
> >Cc: pmwiki-users 
> >Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [pmwiki-users] Follow-Up:Whither WYSIWYG?
> Contract/Contribution
> >
> >On Saturday 14 May 2011 14:30:30 Al Louis Ripskis wrote:
> >> Did my email slip through the cracks? Or is there some
> >> other reason why you haven't responded?
> >
> >It is not easy to estimate this kind of work. Such a module can be done
> fairly
> >quickly (2-3 days) but without a good integration with PmWiki and with
> >potential security holes, as a couple of users expressed their concerns.
> >
> >PmWiki has lots of features and different configurations. Such a module
> has to
> >work in many different environments, like different settings for
> passwords,
> >diffrent uploads directories, different servers, and different browsers.
> >Additional modules need to be written - file picker (with thumbnails?),
> >asynchronous uploader (upload a file while you edit a page), internal link
> >picker (autocomplete?). The most difficult decision is how to store and
> >differenciate the feature-limited RichText input from wiki-code which can
> have
> >unlimited features and local customizations.
> >
> >Last but not least, it is not possible to write such a complex program at
> once
> >- there will certainly be bugs to be fixed as they are uncovered, features
> >added or changed, and the module has to be supported in the future.
> >
> >> "What do you estimate it would take to do it, and how long would it
> >> take? What cost?"
> >
> >Here is a Quote:
> >
> >2 weeks of work for a working beta prototype, including:
> >* integration with PmWiki pages, passwords and upload directories
> >* modules file picker/uploader, link picker
> >* full documentation
> >* 1 year bugfixing/support on the Cookbook Talk page or in the PITS
> >* free software under the GNU GPL, MIT-style license or WTFPL/PD (the best
> >things in life are free)
> >
> >The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
> >collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.
> >
> >Note that the features of the rich-text editor will be limited - not all
> >existing HTML tags or attributes can be available, and not all PmWiki
> markups
> >can have a rich-text "button". The rich-text editor will be in addition to
> the
> >normal wiki-text editor.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Petko
>
>
>
>
> ___
> pmwiki-users mailing list
> pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
> http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users
>
___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Petko Yotov]

On Sunday 15 May 2011 02:12:38, Radu Luchian wrote :
> Petko, I think you agree that without PM this already excellent wiki engine
> would not exist.
> If you don't agree to the split, I'll just send in 80 for this and then
> figure out how to donate the other chunks myself to the other two :)

In my quote, Pm gets 5%, as it is stated on my profile page and on my entry at  
PmWiki/ForHire.

If you change the conditions, I can make another offer/quote.

However, practically and administratively (taxes, accounting) it is far easier 
to pay me just for the work you hire me to do, and make separate donations to 
other people for their contributions.

Petko

___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Radu Luchian]

Far from me to tell you (or anyone else) what to do with your (their) money,
PM :) I know you're modest, and this is between you and Petko. The condition
I stated was for what _I_ am willing to contribute, and it stands.

Incidentally, is anyone keeping track of these pledges? Do we have any
recipe for markup like
(:bar target="2963" now="1200":) which would render (with an HTML table or
CSS, *not* php-generated graphics)
___
|  | 2963
600

It's a jungle in thar Cookbook ;) For something like this I usually code it
myself rather than search in there. *shiver*

According to other people on this thread, PITS.00421 was closed prematurely,
but PM did it, so who am I to change that page? ;)

My opinion on the WYSIWYG editors on wikis is poor, especially on a modular
system like pmwiki. There's no way I can imagine to have such design open
enough for cookbook recipes to easily tie into, *and* include all the fancy
things people may want in their wikis. Or more specifically NOT want. I
don't like bloated tools and UIs and I usually strip down (or build up) the
Edit toolbar to only the buttons that a project really needs, sometimes
group-based or even page-based. But if Petko thinks he can do it, hats off
to him :) I could definitely use it, as I often encounter people who can't
see through markup and email me stuff that can be done with
copy/paste/modify existing lines in a page.

*Surfing off to find a paypal inlet for Hans*

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 19:13, Patrick R. Michaud wrote:

> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 06:12:38PM -0600, Radu Luchian wrote:
> > I'm also in for $100, with the following condition: at least 10% of it
> goes
> > to PM and 5% of it goes to Hans, whose skins and help I've been using for
> > years now.
>
> I appreciate the notion of making sure I get credit for past work,
> but somehow I think I'd rather this effort not be diluted or
> complicated by too many strings or conditions.  In other words,
> I'd simply turn around and re-pledge any amounts dedicated to
> me from this effort back to Petko, who is doing excellent work.
>
> For those who really want to see me credited for any contributions
> I've made to PmWiki (that leads to whatever Petko produces), just
> make them separately on the donations page.
>
> (I also agree that Hans is worthy of support for his PmWiki
> contributions, as are many more whose names are too numerous
> for me to remember or list.  It's all part of the beauty and
> value of open source, in my mind.)
>
> Pm
>
___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Jeff Greer]

I agree, PM would deserve a share as well as Hans.

I would  be in for $100.

Jeff

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Radu Luchian  wrote:

> No, this never happened in pmwiki. Like with Wikipedia, whenever I made a
> chunk of money on my programming, I donate $20 through paypal. For pmwiki
> this happened only once so far :)
>
> I'm also in for $100, with the following condition: at least 10% of it goes
> to PM and 5% of it goes to Hans, whose skins and help I've been using for
> years now.
>
> Petko, I think you agree that without PM this already excellent wiki engine
> would not exist.
> If you don't agree to the split, I'll just send in 80 for this and then
> figure out how to donate the other chunks myself to the other two :)
>
> Cheers,
> Radu
>
> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 16:28, Simon  wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure this has been handled before in the PmWiki community,
>> although I did commission a recipe (to be released) some time ago, and
>> there are other developers  for 
>> hire
>> .
>> I'm in, count me in for $US100.
>>
>> S
>>
>>
>> On 15 May 2011 09:25, Al Louis Ripskis  wrote:
>>
>>> > Petko Yotov <5...@5ko.fr >Sent: May 14, 2011 3:36 PM
>>> >The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
>>> >collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.
>>> Guys,
>>> I'm relatively new to this list, so I have no idea how this type of
>>> contract has been handled in the past.
>>> My first instinct would be to consult Pm on this. Also how would the
>>> collection be handled?
>>> As to the cost, it of course would depend on how many of would
>>> contribute.
>>> Today the euro to $US dollar rate is 1 to 1.411. So 2100 euros translate
>>> to $US2,963.10.
>>> So if a 100 of us contributed, it would be $29.63 each.
>>> If 50 then it would be $59.26.
>>> If thirty, then it would be $98.77, or round off to $100.
>>> Now could we have a show of hands--or in this case e-mails--as to how
>>> many of you and how much you would be willing to contribute.
>>> I'll start of with $100, if necessary.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Al
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> pmwiki-users mailing list
>> pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
>> http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users
>>
>>
>
> ___
> pmwiki-users mailing list
> pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
> http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users
>
>


-- 
http://teacherwikiweb.com
___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Patrick R. Michaud]

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 06:12:38PM -0600, Radu Luchian wrote:
> I'm also in for $100, with the following condition: at least 10% of it goes
> to PM and 5% of it goes to Hans, whose skins and help I've been using for
> years now.

I appreciate the notion of making sure I get credit for past work,
but somehow I think I'd rather this effort not be diluted or
complicated by too many strings or conditions.  In other words, 
I'd simply turn around and re-pledge any amounts dedicated to
me from this effort back to Petko, who is doing excellent work.

For those who really want to see me credited for any contributions
I've made to PmWiki (that leads to whatever Petko produces), just
make them separately on the donations page.

(I also agree that Hans is worthy of support for his PmWiki
contributions, as are many more whose names are too numerous
for me to remember or list.  It's all part of the beauty and
value of open source, in my mind.)

Pm

___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Radu Luchian]

No, this never happened in pmwiki. Like with Wikipedia, whenever I made a
chunk of money on my programming, I donate $20 through paypal. For pmwiki
this happened only once so far :)

I'm also in for $100, with the following condition: at least 10% of it goes
to PM and 5% of it goes to Hans, whose skins and help I've been using for
years now.

Petko, I think you agree that without PM this already excellent wiki engine
would not exist.
If you don't agree to the split, I'll just send in 80 for this and then
figure out how to donate the other chunks myself to the other two :)

Cheers,
Radu

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 16:28, Simon  wrote:

> I'm not sure this has been handled before in the PmWiki community,
> although I did commission a recipe (to be released) some time ago, and
> there are other developers  for 
> hire
> .
> I'm in, count me in for $US100.
>
> S
>
>
> On 15 May 2011 09:25, Al Louis Ripskis  wrote:
>
>> > Petko Yotov <5...@5ko.fr >Sent: May 14, 2011 3:36 PM
>> >The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
>> >collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.
>> Guys,
>> I'm relatively new to this list, so I have no idea how this type of
>> contract has been handled in the past.
>> My first instinct would be to consult Pm on this. Also how would the
>> collection be handled?
>> As to the cost, it of course would depend on how many of would contribute.
>> Today the euro to $US dollar rate is 1 to 1.411. So 2100 euros translate
>> to $US2,963.10.
>> So if a 100 of us contributed, it would be $29.63 each.
>> If 50 then it would be $59.26.
>> If thirty, then it would be $98.77, or round off to $100.
>> Now could we have a show of hands--or in this case e-mails--as to how many
>> of you and how much you would be willing to contribute.
>> I'll start of with $100, if necessary.
>> Cheers,
>> Al
>>
>
> ___
> pmwiki-users mailing list
> pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
> http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users
>
>
___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users

Re: [pmwiki-users] Petko's E2100/US$2, 963 bid for WYSIWYG capability

[Simon]

I'm not sure this has been handled before in the PmWiki community,
although I did commission a recipe (to be released) some time ago, and there
are other developers  for hire .
I'm in, count me in for $US100.

S

On 15 May 2011 09:25, Al Louis Ripskis  wrote:

> > Petko Yotov <5...@5ko.fr >Sent: May 14, 2011 3:36 PM
> >The cost of this work is estimated to be 2100 euros. My company doesn't
> >collect VAT. A receipt or a number of receipts will be available.
> Guys,
> I'm relatively new to this list, so I have no idea how this type of
> contract has been handled in the past.
> My first instinct would be to consult Pm on this. Also how would the
> collection be handled?
> As to the cost, it of course would depend on how many of would contribute.
> Today the euro to $US dollar rate is 1 to 1.411. So 2100 euros translate to
> $US2,963.10.
> So if a 100 of us contributed, it would be $29.63 each.
> If 50 then it would be $59.26.
> If thirty, then it would be $98.77, or round off to $100.
> Now could we have a show of hands--or in this case e-mails--as to how many
> of you and how much you would be willing to contribute.
> I'll start of with $100, if necessary.
> Cheers,
> Al
>
___
pmwiki-users mailing list
pmwiki-users@pmichaud.com
http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users