Re: 1st half-ironic cover? (was sucking in the 70s)

1999-03-03 Thread BARNARD

Yes I wish I could read Jake's piece too.  Can someone respost this in
plain mail form so all of us can get a look?  Thanks...

--jooonyah



Re: 1st half-ironic cover? (was sucking in the 70s)

1999-03-03 Thread Dina Gunderson

Junior says:
In my mind, it was always the Byrd's version of "The Christian Life." 
I couldn't understand it any other way than as an ironic gesture at 
the time

Why do you say that?  And do you still think so?

Dina



Re: 1st half-ironic cover? (was sucking in the 70s)

1999-03-03 Thread jon byrd

Considering R. McG. ended up doing 700 Club commercials for Pat
Robertson I now wonder if there was ever any irony in it.
jb



Re: 1st half-ironic cover? (was sucking in the 70s)

1999-03-03 Thread Barry Mazor

Considering R. McG. ended up doing 700 Club commercials for Pat
Robertson I now wonder if there was ever any irony in it.
jb

Well, the ironies really pile on here.  The one who was taking the song
reasonably seriously at THAT time was almost surely future drug casualty
Gram Parsons, who brought it up, and was certainly at least serious about
wanting to take the radical step of saluting the Louvins' sincerity about
these matters...It's almost impossible to see how startling Parsons'
country meets rock mission was in 1968 without taking these cultural facts
of that moment into account.  THAT seriousness about the song--the serious
suggestion that it had something to tell us in its unabshed sincerity, was
certainly lost in the recording--and I don't recall anybody taking it
straight.  People who'd cover that version  live virtually always did it
ironically--lacking the scruples Junior mentioned to NOT do it as an
offense to the seriously Christian.

(And  it's also useful to remember; when country artists attempted to speak
to the rock and rollers after Gram,  coming from The Other Side, they'd
generally do it with  vague or specific references to drug use, sex
etcI guess this is what we meant by meteing half way.  Thgere really
was a kind of truce  among those in these alt.country circles for a while
there.  Rock topics with country sounds and country topics with rock sounds
are still pretty much  among the alt.country staples, no? )

..Meanwhile, back at the rodeo: .'Christian Life"  was one of the
Sweetheart cuts replaced by a McGuinn version, and ol' Roger was years away
from that Christian Conversion at that time...The song SOUNDS
tongue-in-cheek as McGuinn sings it on the released version, always
has--and is difficult to hear any other way.  (The Gram version has since
become available for comparison.)

Here are the comments of Johnny Rogan in His Byrds book Timeless Flight,
after pointing out that Chris Hillman had brought in "I Am a Pilgrim",
which he of course new from his bluegrass background:

 "The Christian Life" continued  to stress the religious theme, and to hear
the Byrds celebrating the virtues of godliness seemed, to many listeners,
almost ironic.  This was one of the tracks that had to be reerecorded with
McGuinn replacing Parsons on lead vocal.  Roger clearly attempts to imitate
Parsons' vocal style and the entire effect is bizarre.  What is,
presumably, meant to be a serious song, in celebration of the Christian
faith, comes across as unintentionally parodic; with McGuinn sounding as
though he's mimicking rather than imitating Parsons' vocal phrasing."

That McGuinn would later get all-so-serious about these matters just goes
to show that ironic training wheels sometimes get dropped...
I guess the kind of arguments that have been had here over "ironic" rock
takes on twang culture did not start with P2, eh!

Barry






1st half-ironic cover? (was sucking in the 70s)

1999-03-02 Thread Ph. Barnard

Carl starts a thread:

  I also have some thread-sparking questions (what was the first known 
  instance of the half-ironic cover - is he right in naming the 'Mats's  
  Kiss cover as Patient Zero - and also how to relate this web of 
  analysis to the various levels of irony in alt-country covers of both 
  rock and country so-called cheeze). 

In my mind, it was always the Byrd's version of "The Christian Life." 
I couldn't understand it any other way than as an ironic gesture at 
the time

--junior



Re: 1st half-ironic cover? (was sucking in the 70s)

1999-03-02 Thread Will Miner



On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Ph. Barnard wrote:

 Carl starts a thread:
 
   what was the first known 
   instance of the half-ironic cover 
 
 In my mind, it was always the Byrd's version of "The Christian Life." 
 I couldn't understand it any other way than as an ironic gesture at 
 the time


Well, the Byrds had sorta made a habit of doing tongue-in-cheek songs
right from the start, like "Oh, Susannah" and that song from Dr. 
Strangelove.  So it wasnt too far of a jump to an obscure Louvin Brothers 
song. 

I wish I could read Jake's piece on this.  It seems to be that much of the
irony lies in the listener.  (And havent we been through this thread
before?) When I first heard "March 16-20, 1992," the gospel tunes sounded
ironic to me.  And of course a song like "Warfare" still does, but UT's
version of "Atomic Power" no longer does (especially since they left off
the last verse).  And I think that has a lot to do with my loosening up
about the idea of a rock band doing a gospel song.  Or maybe it's because 
as the years go by I doubt the ability of Jay Farrar to be ironic.

Will Miner
Denver, CO