Re: [postgis-users] Help in Defending FOSS SDI
Please feel free to provide your management with the technical design document for the SDI in the Netherlands. http://www.geonovum.nl/sites/default/files/MOT_20100618_TechnicalDesign_v1.01.pdf The document is in English, so you don't have to brush off your Dutch language skills. Also read Paul Ramsey's take on the document: http://blog.opengeo.org/2010/07/08/tulips-pancakes-and-open-source-mapping/ Kind regards, Edward Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 15:31:10 -0700 From: ravivundava...@yahoo.com To: grassu...@grass.itc.it; grass-u...@lists.osgeo.org; postgis-users@postgis.refractions.net Subject: [postgis-users] Help in Defending FOSS SDI Some so called SDI experts feel that FOSS SDI cannot perform at-par with Proprietary SDI. Please provide examples to fight a case from an Indian state which swears by Free and Open Source Software. We can never expect a better level playing field. Kerala - India Here are some excerpts from a document that has false claims supporting Proprietary Software. However, it is worthwhile to mention here that the OSS (Open Source Software) does not match the advanced functionalities of many of the commercial (proprietory) software that is in the market. Image processing and analysis capabilities of the open source software is not comparable to the commercial software when one require to carry out advanced data manipulations, image fusion, 3D modeling, ortho-correction, auto-georeferencing, stereo-image/air photo interpretation (PROBABLY REFERRING TO GRASS), advanced geospatial analysis etc., In such cases, certain proprietary software become an integral part of the Spatial Data Infrastructures, which can not be avoided. At a later stage the some of the proprietary software need to be purchased. It is a well known fact that web portal that run with OSS are neither OGC-compliant norinteroperable(PostGIS and Webservers to react). At the present juncture it is only possible to establish the KSDI Geoportalwith the available COTS enterprise software. The detailed PDF document will be emailed on demand. This is a case that has the potential to set trends in India. Hope to have a good discussion such that we can sum it up and present at a meeting being conducted on August 11th 2010, to settle the issue. Ravi Kumar ___ postgis-users mailing list postgis-users@postgis.refractions.net http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users ___ postgis-users mailing list postgis-users@postgis.refractions.net http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
Re: [postgis-users] Help in Defending FOSS SDI
Ravi wrote: Some so called SDI experts feel that FOSS SDI cannot perform at-par with Proprietary SDI. Please provide examples to fight a case from an Indian state which swears by Free and Open Source Software. We can never expect a better level playing field. Kerala - India Here are some excerpts from a document that has false claims supporting Proprietary Software. However, it is worthwhile to mention here that the OSS (Open Source Software) does not match the advanced functionalities of many of the commercial (proprietory) software that is in the market. Image processing and analysis capabilities of the open source software is not comparable to the commercial software when one require to carry out advanced data manipulations, image fusion, 3D modeling, ortho-correction, auto-georeferencing, stereo-image/air photo interpretation (PROBABLY REFERRING TO GRASS), advanced geospatial analysis etc., In such cases, certain proprietary software become an integral part of the Spatial Data Infrastructures, which can not be avoided. At a later stage the some of the proprietary software need to be purchased. The issue I see with this paragraph is that it is merely handwaving and FUD; I don't see any specifics given. In particular, I would ask for the specific processes and workflows they are referring to (in particular which software/plugins they are using) so that you can point them towards an equivalent OSS solution. It is a well known fact that web portal that run with OSS are neither OGC-compliant nor interoperable(PostGIS and Webservers to react). At the present juncture it is only possible to establish the KSDI Geoportal with the available COTS enterprise software. This is just completely wrong; PostGIS is based upon the OGC SFS for storing geometries and we have worked hard to ensure that it meets the standard in all regards. In terms of other applications, servers like Mapserver and Geoserver speak standards-compliant WMS/WFS/KML so again I am amazed that they are making this claim. If they are looking for ex-commercial software, there is always Autodesk's open-sourced MapGuide application. Or, if they really do want to use proprietary software in the stack somewhere, then ArcGIS Server supports PostGIS from version 9.3. This is a case that has the potential to set trends in India. Hope to have a good discussion such that we can sum it up and present at a meeting being conducted on August 11th 2010, to settle the issue. If the above sample is representative of the document, then you need to do a lot of research into debunking these false claims and the FUD around them. The excerpts you have provided are so full of lies that I can't help but feel there is a clash of commercial interest somewhere in this project. ATB, Mark. -- Mark Cave-Ayland - Senior Technical Architect PostgreSQL - PostGIS Sirius Corporation plc - control through freedom http://www.siriusit.co.uk t: +44 870 608 0063 Sirius Labs: http://www.siriusit.co.uk/labs ___ postgis-users mailing list postgis-users@postgis.refractions.net http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
Re: [postgis-users] Help in Defending FOSS SDI
Gee, somebody is desperate. S On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:07:55 +1000, Mark Cave-Ayland mark.cave-ayl...@siriusit.co.uk wrote: Ravi wrote: Some so called SDI experts feel that FOSS SDI cannot perform at-par with Proprietary SDI. Please provide examples to fight a case from an Indian state which swears by Free and Open Source Software. We can never expect a better level playing field. Kerala - India Here are some excerpts from a document that has false claims supporting Proprietary Software. However, it is worthwhile to mention here that the OSS (Open Source Software) does not match the advanced functionalities of many of the commercial (proprietory) software that is in the market. Image processing and analysis capabilities of the open source software is not comparable to the commercial software when one require to carry out advanced data manipulations, image fusion, 3D modeling, ortho-correction, auto-georeferencing, stereo-image/air photo interpretation (PROBABLY REFERRING TO GRASS), advanced geospatial analysis etc., In such cases, certain proprietary software become an integral part of the Spatial Data Infrastructures, which can not be avoided. At a later stage the some of the proprietary software need to be purchased. The issue I see with this paragraph is that it is merely handwaving and FUD; I don't see any specifics given. In particular, I would ask for the specific processes and workflows they are referring to (in particular which software/plugins they are using) so that you can point them towards an equivalent OSS solution. It is a well known fact that web portal that run with OSS are neither OGC-compliant nor interoperable(PostGIS and Webservers to react). At the present juncture it is only possible to establish the KSDI Geoportal with the available COTS enterprise software. This is just completely wrong; PostGIS is based upon the OGC SFS for storing geometries and we have worked hard to ensure that it meets the standard in all regards. In terms of other applications, servers like Mapserver and Geoserver speak standards-compliant WMS/WFS/KML so again I am amazed that they are making this claim. If they are looking for ex-commercial software, there is always Autodesk's open-sourced MapGuide application. Or, if they really do want to use proprietary software in the stack somewhere, then ArcGIS Server supports PostGIS from version 9.3. This is a case that has the potential to set trends in India. Hope to have a good discussion such that we can sum it up and present at a meeting being conducted on August 11th 2010, to settle the issue. If the above sample is representative of the document, then you need to do a lot of research into debunking these false claims and the FUD around them. The excerpts you have provided are so full of lies that I can't help but feel there is a clash of commercial interest somewhere in this project. ATB, Mark. -- SpatialDB Advice and Design, Solutions Architecture and Programming, Oracle Database 10g Administrator Certified Associate; Oracle Database 10g SQL Certified Professional Oracle Spatial, SQL Server, PostGIS, MySQL, ArcSDE, Manifold GIS, FME, Radius Topology and Studio Specialist. 39 Cliff View Drive, Allens Rivulet, 7150, Tasmania, Australia. Website: www.spatialdbadvisor.com Email: si...@spatialdbadvisor.com Voice: +61 362 396397 Mobile: +61 418 396391 Skype: sggreener Longitude: 147.20515 (147° 12' 18 E) Latitude: -43.01530 (43° 00' 55 S) GeoHash: r22em9r98wg NAC:W80CK 7SWP3 ___ postgis-users mailing list postgis-users@postgis.refractions.net http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
Re: [postgis-users] Help in Defending FOSS SDI
Hi all, one thing you may want to point out to the Indian Authorities is also that the phrase A highly scalable system may therefore be confronted with high license costs should be be understood according to what geoinformation is. A large system has a large number of potential external users, many of which DO NOT get financed from the same source. A national govt may well be (at least temporarily) rich enough to scale proprietary software, but the local govt cannot, so cannot NGOs and other actors that can actually play a big role in creating and managing additional information layers, if they are allowed to do it. So the concept of scalability needs to be read not as a constant, in the case of proprietary software, but rather as space with higly modulated local needs. Yet, no matter how modulated they get, a zero cost fits them all. There is also, obviously, the question of resource availability. How many programmers can you hire at an acceptable price to cope with proprietary software vs FOSS? If you are interested in producing such comparison I can have a look at my contacts in India. I'm aware of some organisations that deal with FOSS in India, and I suppose they can provide us with cost comparisons. Bèrto ___ postgis-users mailing list postgis-users@postgis.refractions.net http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
Re: [postgis-users] Help in Defending FOSS SDI
For what it's worth: I cannot speak about FOSS in general, but for raster servers I dare to take position. Open-source rasdaman repeatedly has been reported to have a performance way superior to ArcSDE. Some more voices (look at the Oracle one!): “world leading technology. -- Aerovista France (market survey, 2004) “I am not easy to impress, but this is unique. -- Eng. Hans Jacoby, Infrastructure Management, German Railways “Most favourable tool for Data Mgmnt Services -- NIMA (USA) Pathfinder evaluation 2003; 700 vendors invited “Impressive software - Oracle will never do anything that elaborate in functionality and architecture. -- Jeffrey Xie, Senior Tech. Staff, GeoRaster, Oracle USA Your performance continues to amaze me. -- David Adler, Senior Database Engineer, IBM USA most comprehensive implementation -- Rona Machlin, ACM SIGMOD, 2007 Starting this fall rasdaman will be integrated with GDAL (works already), MapServer, PostGIS. Rasdaman can exploit multiple processors and can be distributed (free version) and supports transparent tape silo access (commercial version). Installations grow by just adding the new compute nodes and editing a configuration script. Multi-Petabyte scalability is not an issue. As for FOSS standards support, your folks may want to have a look at www.earthlook.org which gives demos of 1-D to 4-D earth science use cases, all based on OGC standards. I myself am leading the raster-relevant working groups within OGC, plus editor of currently 9 specification documents. In this capacity I know that FOSS is of high importance to OGC and receives high attention there. The forthcoming WCS 2.0 standard (adoption vote ends by August 17) will have open-source rasdaman as its reference implementation. We already have done first steps on the way to make sure the specification is implementable and scalable. BTW, WCS 2.0 will rely on a unified coverage model which allows coverages to float between services relying on different OGC standards, such as WPS, WCS, SWE Common, GML. HTH - best of luck, Peter On 08/02/2010 12:31 AM, Ravi wrote: Some so called SDI experts feel that FOSS SDI cannot perform at-par with Proprietary SDI. Please provide examples to fight a case from an Indian state which swears by Free and Open Source Software. We can never expect a better level playing field. Kerala - India Here are some excerpts from a document that has false claims supporting Proprietary Software. However, it is worthwhile to mention here that the OSS (Open Source Software) does not match the advanced functionalities of many of the commercial (proprietory) software that is in the market. Image processing and analysis capabilities of the open source software is not comparable to the commercial software when one require to carry out advanced data manipulations, image fusion, 3D modeling, ortho-correction, auto-georeferencing, stereo-image/air photo interpretation (PROBABLY REFERRING TO GRASS), advanced geospatial analysis etc., In such cases, certain proprietary software become an integral part of the Spatial Data Infrastructures, which can not be avoided. At a later stage the some of the proprietary software need to be purchased. It is a well known fact that web portal that run with OSS are neither OGC-compliant nor interoperable(PostGIS and Webservers to react). At the present juncture it is only possible to establish the KSDI Geoportal with the available COTS enterprise software. The detailed PDF document will be emailed on demand. This is a case that has the potential to set trends in India. Hope to have a good discussion such that we can sum it up and present at a meeting being conducted on August 11th 2010, to settle the issue. Ravi Kumar -- Dr. Peter Baumann - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann mail: p.baum...@jacobs-university.de tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178 - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 147737) www.rasdaman.com, mail: baum...@rasdaman.com tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882 Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata. (mail disclaimer, AD 10xx) ___ postgis-users mailing list postgis-users@postgis.refractions.net http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
[postgis-users] Help in Defending FOSS SDI
Some so called SDI experts feel that FOSS SDI cannot perform at-par with Proprietary SDI. Please provide examples to fight a case from an Indian state which swears by Free and Open Source Software. We can never expect a better level playing field. Kerala - India Here are some excerpts from a document that has false claims supporting Proprietary Software. However, it is worthwhile to mention here that the OSS (Open Source Software) does not match the advanced functionalities of many of the commercial (proprietory) software that is in the market. Image processing and analysis capabilities of the open source software is not comparable to the commercial software when one require to carry out advanced data manipulations, image fusion, 3D modeling, ortho-correction, auto-georeferencing, stereo-image/air photo interpretation (PROBABLY REFERRING TO GRASS), advanced geospatial analysis etc., In such cases, certain proprietary software become an integral part of the Spatial Data Infrastructures, which can not be avoided. At a later stage the some of the proprietary software need to be purchased. It is a well known fact that web portal that run with OSS are neither OGC-compliant nor interoperable(PostGIS and Webservers to react). At the present juncture it is only possible to establish the KSDI Geoportal with the available COTS enterprise software. The detailed PDF document will be emailed on demand. This is a case that has the potential to set trends in India. Hope to have a good discussion such that we can sum it up and present at a meeting being conducted on August 11th 2010, to settle the issue. Ravi Kumar ___ postgis-users mailing list postgis-users@postgis.refractions.net http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
