Re: Threading
Hans Glomme scripsit dd. Mon, 26 Nov 2007 01:04:16 +0100 (internet: @044) Hello, I'm new with powermail and now I'm looking for the features. Because I'm described to many mailing lists, I was looking for a feature that shows me the threads for example sorted by message ID or subject. That makes it more easy for me to read the threads. Can anyone tell me how to do it? Sorry for my maybe badly english. Hope someone can help me with that. -- Greetings out of Munich Hans Hi Hans, Sort your messages by Date Sent by clicking on that column in the message browser. Then enter (part of) the subject of the thread in the filter in the upper right corner of the browser. It is not entirely the feature you are looking for, but nonetheless a good part of it. Kind regards, Jan Storms
Re: Threading
Hans Glomme ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: - reciept- and reading confirmation There is no way to be sure someone has really read your mail unless they've said so, and anyway, a request for automatic confirmation can be construed as an intrusion on privacy. If PowerMail should support this feature in a future version, I would instantly turn it off. This kind of information is nobody's business unless I decide it is. - Threading I've never used a mail client that supported threading, so I don't know _what_ I miss -- but I cannot say that I miss it. All I hear is people complaining about threading not working reliably. For example, I have subscribed to several mailing lists in digest mode. When I am replying to a message within a digest, I am necessarily breaking the thread; there's nothing I can do about it. - In some clients also the possibility to filter for mailing lists Maybe I don't understand what you are missing, but I have filters set up for all the mailing lists I have subscribed to. What is it that filters should do that they don't do already? - Michael Michael J. Hußmann E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
Re: Threading
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:49:35 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hans Glomme ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: - reciept- and reading confirmation There is no way to be sure someone has really read your mail unless they've said so, and anyway, a request for automatic confirmation can be construed as an intrusion on privacy. If PowerMail should support this feature in a future version, I would instantly turn it off. This kind of information is nobody's business unless I decide it is. You are right ;) But my business partner normally confirm it that they read. But what you can do and what the most server understood is, that you can ask the server for a delivery confirmation. Of course you never can be sure that the recipient has read your mail, understood it or put it unread in the trash. - Threading I've never used a mail client that supported threading, so I don't know _what_ I miss -- but I cannot say that I miss it. All I hear is people complaining about threading not working reliably. For example, I have subscribed to several mailing lists in digest mode. When I am replying to a message within a digest, I am necessarily breaking the thread; there's nothing I can do about it. Well if you got 500 Mails each day from different lists and searching for a special theme or want follow a longer thread you will know what I mean ;) Think it's very exhausting if you don't have such a feature. - In some clients also the possibility to filter for mailing lists Maybe I don't understand what you are missing, but I have filters set up for all the mailing lists I have subscribed to. What is it that filters should do that they don't do already? Ok show me the filter for list-id ;) Because the list-id is allways the same address. In some lists you have the list mail into cc in other ones from an also in reply to. -- Greetings Hans
Re: Threading
On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 2:05 pm +0100, Hans Gomme wrote: - In some clients also the possibility to filter for mailing lists Maybe I don't understand what you are missing, but I have filters set up for all the mailing lists I have subscribed to. What is it that filters should do that they don't do already? Ok show me the filter for list-id ;) Because the list-id is allways the same address. In some lists you have the list mail into cc in other ones from an also in reply to. There isn't a ready-made filter, but in the 'Filters' pane you can select 'Other field...', and type 'List-Id' into the box. -- TimH PowerMail 5.5.2 (build 4475) | OS X 10.4.9 | PowerBook FW/500 | 1GB RAM
Re: Threading
Hans Gomme ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Ok show me the filter for list-id ;) Because the list-id is allways the same address. In some lists you have the list mail into cc in other ones from an also in reply to. Well, if there is a list-id (whatever that is) in the header, then you can filter for it (select Anderes Feld ... if it's not in the standard list of header fields). - Michael Michael J. Hußmann E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
Re: Threading
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:31:54 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hans Gomme ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Ok show me the filter for list-id ;) Because the list-id is allways the same address. In some lists you have the list mail into cc in other ones from an also in reply to. Well, if there is a list-id (whatever that is) in the header, then you can filter for it (select Anderes Feld ... if it's not in the standard list of header fields). Sorry to say it ;) You are wrong here an example header from a mailman list and that's a header what is strict RFC: List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users mailman-users.python.org List-Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman- users, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] if you look for example in entourage you also will find there a possibility to filter for that x-header. And all Mailing lists use it doesn't matter if Wikipedia, Yahoo, mailman etc. Also the Postfix developer Mailing list use this and I can't think that special this guys don't use non RFC headers :) -- Greetings Hans
Re: Threading
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:28:49 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There isn't a ready-made filter, but in the 'Filters' pane you can select 'Other field...', and type 'List-Id' into the box. Thank you I will try this :) Will be very helpful for me if it works. -- Greetings Hans
Re: Threading
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:33:38 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You would use the Other Field... option to define your filter criterion. Hi Jan, I try but not so the hit :( Because I see I allways must copy it and paste it into the filter. I also looked into entourage (example) and see that they have a special ruleset for Mailing list called Malinglist rules. Into Gyazmail the field in the rule manager exist. Also for thunderbird you can get a mailing list plugin to make rules using the list-id. But think also must work without that field for now till the developer have change it. How normally they will be informed about missing things? Means how can a user make a suggestion? Thnx for your answer. -- Greetings Hans
Re: Threading
Hans Glomme ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Sorry to say it ;) You are wrong here an example header from a mailman list and that's a header what is strict RFC: Well, it is as I (and others) have said: If there is a list-id field in the header (not for this list, as far as I can tell), then you can filter for it using Other field ... (I had mentioned the German localization Anderes Feld..., assuming you were German). - Michael Michael J. Hußmann E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
Re: Threading
Hi Barbara On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:40:59 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have discussed threading before and it seems that threading is difficult to implement in a mail application. At that time it was something that was NOT going to be included in Power Mail. I missed threading when I first came to Power Mail but now with the other advantages I keep Power Mail anyway. Well think nothing seems easy if you try it :) Some things are difficult other ones not so :) Well the point is not that is will be really difficult to sor a mail from [EMAIL PROTECTED] But think at that situation. You have a mailing list with 100 e-mails and more each day. Now at first you have a thread let's say A. Then you become answers on that. You will be very interested into that Thread. Then someone say Hey I must look first something before I answer, during the time he think about comes another 500 Mails with other threads. Then you have the thread you ar interested at the bottom some answers maybe in the middle and other ones at the top. Think that's not really a good working. Or you see it not like me? Ok now you can go and say for each thread I'm interested I make a subfolder and filter by topic but think that can't be really a solution?! I'm not sure but I think normal the MUA's I know do the threading by using the message ID. Normal every thread have a starting message id and if you look for example the message ID here (Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) will be during the thread allways the same (local part) only if a reply of a reply follows the host part change. But I'm not the real expert in this thing I only think to remember to read something bout the threading and how it normal works in MUA's. As for as sorting into folders by mailing list, that is easy to set up. Usually I use the Reply-To address when setting up the filter. Now, if you mean some sort WITHIN a mailing list folder, I don't do that. But I have a whole section of mailing lists divided by their names. I make a top folder that says Mailing Lists. Nothing actually goes in to that folder. Then under that there are sub-folders with the name of each list I am on. The List-id field was only a smal problem for me. And for me it's not so necessary like the possibility to sort by thread.
Re: Threading
Hans Gomme ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I'm not sure but I think normal the MUA's I know do the threading by using the message ID. Normal every thread have a starting message id and if you look for example the message ID here (Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) will be during the thread allways the same (local part) only if a reply of a reply follows the host part change. But I'm not the real expert in this thing I only think to remember to read something bout the threading and how it normal works in MUA's. The message ID will be different for each mail within a thread, but there is an In-Reply-To field that contains the message ID of the message replied to; this is used for threading. For example, copying from the header of your message: Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the ID of Barbara's message that you replied to. However, sometimes threading doesn't work, either because someone participating in an exchange doesn't use reply or because the reply is to a message within a digest (which has its own message ID that is not connected to any thread). Or someone hits Reply, but edits the subject as he really wants to start a new thread. In the first case, the thread breaks up into two subthreads, and in the second case, mail clients supporting threading will display the message within a thread it doesn't belong to. The List-id field was only a smal problem for me. And for me it's not so necessary like the possibility to sort by thread. But thankfully, filtering for List-id isn't a problem at all; you can do it if you want. If the mail headers do contain a List-id field, that is: of the 16 mailing lists I've subscribed to, only 6 use list-id. - Michael Michael J. Hußmann E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
Re: Threading
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:27:51 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The message ID will be different for each mail within a thread, but there is an In-Reply-To field that contains the message ID of the message replied to; this is used for threading. For example, copying from the header of your message: Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the ID of Barbara's message that you replied to. I see. However, sometimes threading doesn't work, either because someone participating in an exchange doesn't use reply or because the reply is to a message within a digest (which has its own message ID that is not connected to any thread). Or someone hits Reply, but edits the subject as he really wants to start a new thread. In the first case, the thread breaks up into two subthreads, and in the second case, mail clients supporting threading will display the message within a thread it doesn't belong to. Well that can happend allways that someone destroy the thread. The List-id field was only a smal problem for me. And for me it's not so necessary like the possibility to sort by thread. But thankfully, filtering for List-id isn't a problem at all; you can do it if you want. If the mail headers do contain a List-id field, that is: of the 16 mailing lists I've subscribed to, only 6 use list-id. Well at me (ok only subscribed to yahoo and mailman lists (think yahoo also use mailman) there is a list-id. I looked into Gyazmail (because was interested) and also here the thread was displayed good. (without list-id). So I asked myself how other MUA's will do it? They also like I would say cook only with water. But thank you for explaining it to me. Like always to learn new things.
Re: Threading
Hallo Hans, You can NOT sort by threading, only by subject. To sort by subject click on the top of the list view onto SUBJECT - if you want to change ascending to descending, clicl onto the little triangle at the top right of the window. Let us know if that worked out for you. If you have troubles understanding my English, let me know and I will re- send this email in German. ---marlyse former message(s) quotes: - Hello, I'm new with powermail and now I'm looking for the features. Because I'm described to many mailing lists, I was looking for a feature that shows me the threads for example sorted by message ID or subject. That makes it more easy for me to read the threads. Can anyone tell me how to do it? Sorry for my maybe badly english. Hope someone can help me with that. -- Greetings out of Munich Hans
Re: Threading
Hallo Hans, You can NOT sort by threading, only by subject. To sort by subject click on the top of the list view onto SUBJECT - if you want to change ascending to descending, clicl onto the little triangle at the top right of the window. Let us know if that worked out for you. If you have troubles understanding my English, let me know and I will re- send this email in German. ---marlyse former message(s) quotes: - Hello, I'm new with powermail and now I'm looking for the features. Because I'm described to many mailing lists, I was looking for a feature that shows me the threads for example sorted by message ID or subject. That makes it more easy for me to read the threads. Can anyone tell me how to do it? Sorry for my maybe badly english. Hope someone can help me with that. -- Greetings out of Munich Hans Hi Marlyse, well think maybe wrote it here. Maybe to show it what I mean here an example: Start Thread (1) answer (1) answer on the answer (1) Next Thread (2) answer (2) answer on the answer (2) Thats what I mean and also miss in PM. Don't know if it will be possible and also don't know how to say it in English exactly. I don't want only sort by date or subject, what I mean is that I whant have a discussion on a mailing list together so that each discussion is together and not that you found the starting thread at the end and a answer onto the thread 50 mails later. Thnx for your answer. -- Greetings out of Munich Hans
Re: Threading
Hello, Am/On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 03:27:45 +0100 schrieb/wrote Hans Glomme: well think maybe wrote it here. Maybe to show it what I mean here an example: Start Thread (1) answer (1) answer on the answer (1) Next Thread (2) answer (2) answer on the answer (2) Thats what I mean and also miss in PM. Don't know if it will be possible and also don't know how to say it in English exactly. I don't want only sort by date or subject, what I mean is that I whant have a discussion on a mailing list together so that each discussion is together and not that you found the starting thread at the end and a answer onto the thread 50 mails later. your question was understood. Sorting by Thread is still a missing feature in PM. We hope, that CTM will implement that in one of the next versions. I'm also waiting to see that, meanwhile I use filters and folders for sorting the mails of different lists. Although other mailclients do have that feature, I still use PM, because it's the most stable client on the Mac, especially, when you get a lot of mails per day. Thanks and all the best Matthias
Re: Threading
John Hay on 9/16/05 said Apple's mail.app has a feature whereby when you select a message all the other related threads get highlighted automatically, thus showing the user some history. Does PowerMail do this and I'm just missing it? No, it doesn't. There have been discussions about this before and I believe that the result is that it isn't going to; the search function makes it not quite so necessary although I admit sometimes I would like it. But then I go try thunderbird which does have threading and keep coming back to PM... I use mail at work because we're on a MS server and the IMAP features of Mail seem to behave better in it. Anyhow, when I worked at Apple Cricket, one of the programmers for Mail, told me how they really have to guess on the threading since there isn't any internet standard to do it. They have worked out some pretty good algorithms, but I still get quite a few messages that get threaded that have nothing to do with each other. I would always vote for either NO on putting it in PowerMail, or at least make it an option. Wayne -- All human rules are more or less idiotic. - Mark Twain
