Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Antwort: Autorouter
Mike Thanks for this detailed answer. It seems that I have to try the "classes trick" to get design rules easier to specctra. I was not aware of this - currently we work with manually edited .rul files. Emanuel --- MPL AG www.mpl.ch Emanuel Zimmermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Manager R&D Phone: +41 56 483'34'34 Taefernstrasse 20 Fax: +41 56 493'30'20 CH-5405 Daettwil --- "edsi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am 21.01.2004 14:16:46: > Emanuel > We also suspect Protel is at fault for the 28 mil holes. I think it > is a default in Protel setup. > As far as High Speed design rules, You will need to stick with > spectra for now, since Electra does not support differential pairs > of matched lengths. I did not try blind and buried vias, but I did > use prerouted "via in pad". Electra was cleaner since it let these > connections alone and I did not have to create any "forget" commands. > We also tested the "BUS" command on both routers. The test board was > a simple backplane with identical connectors on same Grid. Spectra > was slightly better however, neither Electra or Spectra routing > would be acceptable with this command. > One thing we did noticesince both routers use a "manhattan" > topology to place traces, On large busses, Electra has very few > loops. It sticks to the floorplan very well. I have a tendency to > use the "limit way" command on most of my designs. This forces the > router to lay traces parrallel to each other on the same layer. This > increases the density of the routing. Limit way is a little tighter > on Spectra. I ran tests on both routers, using limit way then ran > test without limit way. In both cases, Electra managed 500-700 less > vias out of 7800. > > What I was most impressed with was that it left the locked preroutes > tollally alone. Honestly, this is the first router that this worked > with. If you think Spectra is leaving them alone, look closly at > your design. On some occasions it place traces either over or > around your preroutes. The only way to avoid this is to create > "forget" classes. > > Here is the way the classes and DSN file works in Protel. Protel > does not export classes. I wish it would. If you want to create > widths lets say for DATA D0-D7, created a classs called DAT0_7, then > create and invidual width rule for that class. When Protel exports > the DSN file , it will assign an INDIVIDUAL rule to the nets in the > class. The same applies to via type, toplogy, max via, and > clearance. Protel extracts the class and breaks it down to net. > That is perfectly fine ...perhaps cumbersome but it works. You > still may want to look at this router. ELecta is working on adding > High Speed rules > > > Mike Reagan > EDSI > Frederick MD > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Antwort: Autorouter
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Steve, > > same here. Even medium designs won't route and end up with an "unable to > initialise". Does anyone know a reason and workaround for this effect? A couple well-known, but not well documented things. The most important is to have a keepout border around all the components that is made up entirely of lines. No arcs, and no fills. The software needs this to set up a boundary to its search space. (You can have fills in the interior of the keepout, but the border should not contain any.) I think arcs anywhere on the keepout may cause problems. You need to assign nets to all split planes, and make sure the split plane interior regions don't overlap. (The lines which delimit the split plane regions can overlap.) Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Antwort: Autorouter
> same here. Even medium designs won't route and end up with an "unable to > initialise". Does anyone know a reason and workaround for this effect? I have found this to usually be due to components outside the keepout area or the keepout area being incomplete or inside out. The other thing that will cause this is certain DRC errors, but I can't remember which exactly. So check your keepout and components then run a DRC. Yes it would be better if it would give you a good error message like "unable to initalize due to component outside keepout", but I think this is more a specification error than a real software bug. Rob * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Antwort: Autorouter
Steve, same here. Even medium designs won't route and end up with an "unable to initialise". Does anyone know a reason and workaround for this effect? Regards, Gisbert Auge N.A.T. GmbH "Steve Wiseman" se.org.uk> Kopie: Gesendet von:Thema: Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Autorouter "Steve Wiseman,SJC,57852 4" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 16.11.2001 19:44 Bitte antworten an "Protel EDA Forum" On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Tim Fifield wrote: > Ivan, > I'm also interested in what button you push. Same here. I've got Specctra, so I don't care so much about the ARs inability, but I've just convinced a customer of mine to buy Protel so they can do their own maintenance of the board I've just done for them - it doesn't require Specctra, but to hand-route it would be very very dull. I suspect I'll need to know answers pretty soon. (My experiences with the autorouter normally end up with an "unable to initialise", or a design where the router seems to paint itself into a complete no-hope situation, and gives up / stops trying. All very depressing). Specctra, of course, may not be available as a standalone product - I have little love for Cadence. Steve * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Antwort: Autorouter
"Antwort" is filled in automatically by the mail tool and means "reply" in German language. Gisbert "Bagotronix Tech Support" An: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thema: Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Autorouter 16.11.2001 18:32 Bitte antworten an "Protel EDA Forum" Hey, what does "Antwort" mean in the subject line of some of these list messages? Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: http://www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Protel EDA Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Autorouter * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
