Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
Steve and the Forum, There appears to be some confusion in several of the posts in response to your original question, and I believe that I can clear up some of that confusion. Most of the "tables" or "calculators" available today have their basis in the old MIL STD 275 tables which plotted "current" in amps against "rise in temperature above ambient" in degrees C for a given "thickness" or weight of copper on a PC Board. These tables can be found today in IPC-2221 on page 38 as Figure 6-4. There are numerous other versions of these "tables" and also many "calculators" available today which offer basically the same information. What appears to be the basic misunderstanding in the posts in reply to your question is that they seem to be talking about a given amount of current through a given conductor size of a given layer thickness at a given temperature. This is not the correct application of the charts or calculators. The results are not to be viewed at a specific temperature, but rather viewed as generating additional heat and "adding" a certain amount of heat to the "ambient" or normal temperature. That means that if the normal temperature in a given area of the PCB is 25 degrees C, and you can tolerate an additional 10 degrees C temperature rise in the copper conductors in that area due to current being passed thru them, then such and such a current can be passed thru such and such a width of such and such thickness of copper in that area. In other words, passing X amount of current through a conductor of Y width and Z thickness will cause the conductor to rise so much in temperature. Please remember that only the thickness of the copper counts in these current calculations, since solder is only about 16% as conductive as copper. There have been a number of recent related posts to the "PCDList" listserver forum lately, and much useful related information may be gleened by looking at some of those archives. The "list" can be accessed via the PCDMag site at: ==> http://lyris.mfi.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=pcdlist Hopefully this clears up some of the confusion. JaMi Smith Optical Crossing Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Stephen Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:07 AM To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] Copper Calculations Does anyone know a simple way of calculating copper track size (in, mm), when you know the amount of copper (in, ounces), and the current flow (in, Amps)?? I've never had to do any high current circuits before, so any help much appreciated. Steve * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
Rene Tschaggelar wrote: > This unit 'ounces of copper', does it apply to > 1)square foot ? > 2)square yard ? > 3)square meter ? It is ounces Avoirdupois per square foot, and is about .0014" thick, which should equal about 55 uM, if I did the conversion right. Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
Hi Rene, I believe the way the story (legend) goes is: The British housing industry used to make copper shingles for roofing... they were 1 foot by 1 foot square and had a weight 1 oz. ... I'm told that's where the measurement technique was invented... This of course, yields the familiar 1.4 mils thick copper we all know and love That copper sheet material was then laminated or applied to an insulator backing and the PCB was born.. :) (don't ya love legends) Can't remember where I heard it... but it made sense... Might as well retell it... - Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 12:05 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations This unit 'ounces of copper', does it apply to 1)square foot ? 2)square yard ? 3)square meter ? European thicknesses are 35, 70, 105, 150, 200 and 300 micrometer. I just wondered how they relate. One ounce is 28 grams, isn't it ? Rene Stephen Smith wrote: > > Does anyone know a simple way of calculating copper track size (in, mm), > when you know the amount of copper (in, ounces), and the current flow > (in, Amps)?? > I've never had to do any high current circuits before, so any help much > appreciated. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
At 09:04 PM 11/19/01 +0100, you wrote: >This unit 'ounces of copper', does it apply to >1)square foot ? >2)square yard ? >3)square meter ? square foot. >European thicknesses are 35, 70, 105, 150, 200 and 300 micrometer. >I just wondered how they relate. One ounce of copper is about 1.4 mils thick. That is 35 micrometers. I'm surprised that half-ounce copper, 17.5 micrometers, was not in that list. >One ounce is 28 grams, isn't it ? close enough. as I recall, 1 pound is 453.59 grams, one pound is 16 ounces, so 1 ounce is 28.3 grams. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
This unit 'ounces of copper', does it apply to 1)square foot ? 2)square yard ? 3)square meter ? European thicknesses are 35, 70, 105, 150, 200 and 300 micrometer. I just wondered how they relate. One ounce is 28 grams, isn't it ? Rene Stephen Smith wrote: > > Does anyone know a simple way of calculating copper track size (in, mm), > when you know the amount of copper (in, ounces), and the current flow > (in, Amps)?? > I've never had to do any high current circuits before, so any help much > appreciated. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
Useful information on copper and temperature calculations can be found at http://www.aracnet.com/cgi-usr/gpatrick/ Trace Width Calculator at http://www.aracnet.com/cgi-usr/gpatrick/trace.pl and references and formula at http://www.aracnet.com/~gpatrick/trace_ref.html I think there are some misplaced decimal points in the table. More realistic values are: 7 AMP 45C (113F) .145 10 AMP 45C (113F) .225 > > Minimum Conductor Widths For PCBs > > Temperature Rise Above Ambient > > For 1/2 oz Copper > > Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width > > 1 AMP 45C (113F) .013 > > 1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .025 > > 2 AMP 45C (113F) .033 > > 3 AMP 45C (113F) .050 > > 4 AMP 45C (113F) .073 > > 5 AMP 45C (113F) .110 > > 6 AMP 45C (113F) .125 > > 7 AMP 45C (113F) 1.45 > > 10 AMP 45C (113F) 2.25 > >Hmmm, seems AWFULLY nonlinear! 13 mils is good for >one amp, but you need 173 times more for 10 A? I find that >hard to believe, unless this was done at RF frequencies where >edge effects dominate. I've been building servo amps and >such gear running 10 A on roughly 250 mil traces (1 Oz Cu), >but that is low frequency. > >Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
Ted Tontis wrote: > Minimum Conductor Widths For PCBs > Temperature Rise Above Ambient > For 1/2 oz Copper > Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width > 1 AMP 45C (113F) .013 > 1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .025 > 2 AMP 45C (113F) .033 > 3 AMP 45C (113F) .050 > 4 AMP 45C (113F) .073 > 5 AMP 45C (113F) .110 > 6 AMP 45C (113F) .125 > 7 AMP 45C (113F) 1.45 > 10 AMP 45C (113F) 2.25 Hmmm, seems AWFULLY nonlinear! 13 mils is good for one amp, but you need 173 times more for 10 A? I find that hard to believe, unless this was done at RF frequencies where edge effects dominate. I've been building servo amps and such gear running 10 A on roughly 250 mil traces (1 Oz Cu), but that is low frequency. Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
Try Pcbtemp.exe at Utracad design its free and very usefull. www.ultracad.com/calc.htm -Original Message- From: Stephen Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:07 AM To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] Copper Calculations Does anyone know a simple way of calculating copper track size (in, mm), when you know the amount of copper (in, ounces), and the current flow (in, Amps)?? I've never had to do any high current circuits before, so any help much appreciated. Steve * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
he writes articles for PCD magazine. Here is there web sight www.pcdmag.com very helpful. Ted -Original Message- From: Stephen Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:05 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations That's very helpful, thanks. But, one more thingWho is Chris Robertson? Steve -Original Message- From: Ted Tontis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 16 November 2001 15:06 To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations Minimum Conductor Widths For PCBs Temperature Rise Above Ambient For 1/2 oz Copper Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width 1 AMP 45C (113F) .013 1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .025 2 AMP 45C (113F) .033 3 AMP 45C (113F) .050 4 AMP 45C (113F) .073 5 AMP 45C (113F) .110 6 AMP 45C (113F) .125 7 AMP 45C (113F) 1.45 10 AMP 45C (113F) 2.25 This information is from Chris Robertson's web page. Hope this helps. Regards, Ted Temperature Rise Above Ambient 1 oz Copper Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width 1 AMP 45C (113F) .008 1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .012 2 AMP 45C (113F) .016 3 AMP 45C (113F) .025 4 AMP 45C (113F) .040 5 AMP 45C (113F) .050 6 AMP 45C (113F) .065 7 AMP 45C (113F) .080 10 AMP 45C (113F) 1.20 Minimum Conductor Widths For PCBs Temperature Rise Above Ambient 2 oz Copper Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width 1 AMP 45C (113F) .003 1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .006 2 AMP 45C (113F) .008 3 AMP 45C (113F) .013 4 AMP 45C (113F) .020 5 AMP 45C (113F) .025 6 AMP 45C (113F) .030 7 AMP 45C (113F) .040 10 AMP 45C (113F) .060 -Original Message- From: Stephen Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 8:07 AM To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] Copper Calculations Does anyone know a simple way of calculating copper track size (in, mm), when you know the amount of copper (in, ounces), and the current flow (in, Amps)?? I've never had to do any high current circuits before, so any help much appreciated. Steve * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
That's very helpful, thanks. But, one more thingWho is Chris Robertson? Steve -Original Message- From: Ted Tontis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 16 November 2001 15:06 To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations Minimum Conductor Widths For PCBs Temperature Rise Above Ambient For 1/2 oz Copper Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width 1 AMP 45C (113F) .013 1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .025 2 AMP 45C (113F) .033 3 AMP 45C (113F) .050 4 AMP 45C (113F) .073 5 AMP 45C (113F) .110 6 AMP 45C (113F) .125 7 AMP 45C (113F) 1.45 10 AMP 45C (113F) 2.25 This information is from Chris Robertson's web page. Hope this helps. Regards, Ted Temperature Rise Above Ambient 1 oz Copper Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width 1 AMP 45C (113F) .008 1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .012 2 AMP 45C (113F) .016 3 AMP 45C (113F) .025 4 AMP 45C (113F) .040 5 AMP 45C (113F) .050 6 AMP 45C (113F) .065 7 AMP 45C (113F) .080 10 AMP 45C (113F) 1.20 Minimum Conductor Widths For PCBs Temperature Rise Above Ambient 2 oz Copper Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width 1 AMP 45C (113F) .003 1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .006 2 AMP 45C (113F) .008 3 AMP 45C (113F) .013 4 AMP 45C (113F) .020 5 AMP 45C (113F) .025 6 AMP 45C (113F) .030 7 AMP 45C (113F) .040 10 AMP 45C (113F) .060 -Original Message- From: Stephen Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 8:07 AM To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] Copper Calculations Does anyone know a simple way of calculating copper track size (in, mm), when you know the amount of copper (in, ounces), and the current flow (in, Amps)?? I've never had to do any high current circuits before, so any help much appreciated. Steve * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
Minimum Conductor Widths For PCBs Temperature Rise Above Ambient For 1/2 oz Copper Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width 1 AMP 45C (113F) .013 1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .025 2 AMP 45C (113F) .033 3 AMP 45C (113F) .050 4 AMP 45C (113F) .073 5 AMP 45C (113F) .110 6 AMP 45C (113F) .125 7 AMP 45C (113F) 1.45 10 AMP 45C (113F) 2.25 This information is from Chris Robertson's web page. Hope this helps. Regards, Ted Temperature Rise Above Ambient 1 oz Copper Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width 1 AMP 45C (113F) .008 1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .012 2 AMP 45C (113F) .016 3 AMP 45C (113F) .025 4 AMP 45C (113F) .040 5 AMP 45C (113F) .050 6 AMP 45C (113F) .065 7 AMP 45C (113F) .080 10 AMP 45C (113F) 1.20 Minimum Conductor Widths For PCBs Temperature Rise Above Ambient 2 oz Copper Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width 1 AMP 45C (113F) .003 1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .006 2 AMP 45C (113F) .008 3 AMP 45C (113F) .013 4 AMP 45C (113F) .020 5 AMP 45C (113F) .025 6 AMP 45C (113F) .030 7 AMP 45C (113F) .040 10 AMP 45C (113F) .060 -Original Message- From: Stephen Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 8:07 AM To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] Copper Calculations Does anyone know a simple way of calculating copper track size (in, mm), when you know the amount of copper (in, ounces), and the current flow (in, Amps)?? I've never had to do any high current circuits before, so any help much appreciated. Steve * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Copper Calculations
Does anyone know a simple way of calculating copper track size (in, mm), when you know the amount of copper (in, ounces), and the current flow (in, Amps)?? I've never had to do any high current circuits before, so any help much appreciated. Steve * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
