RE: A thanks to Slau and others; Pro tools Levels.
Ok Chuck, those are some hard words to crack in light of the current way of thinking, but I may start reevaluating some of this information in order to become better informed about all of it. Thanks for sharing From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of CHUCK REICHEL Sent: Friday, May 09, 2014 11:40 AM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: A thanks to Slau and others; Pro tools Levels. Hi Poppa, What you noticed from that vocal session is where I basically keep my levels, for the last 13 years using PT. I've gotten very good results keeping it up there. I will admit you half to be very diligent while running levels up there! Heres some further clarification of the level discussion from my design Engineer friend. From tom Graefe My ANALOG console has a dynamic range greater than any Protools system. The -20 dB standard by Sony I set for the SDDS system I designed. The -20 dB is a reference for a nominal sound pressure level when mixing motion pictures. It allows 20 dB of headroom for the loud passages and a nominal sound pressure level to be the same in all Theaters. If you gave this guy some real test equipment and show him how to run it he would be surprised how foolish he really is. I have a $20,000.00 Audio Precision test set. If you run an IMD (intermodulation Distortion, a 4 to one mix of 60Hz and 7KHz) at -1dBFS and then do the same at -18 dBFS the IMD can be up to an order of magnitude higher. Your Buddy has no idea about how Digital audio or A/D converters work. Later Tom http://GraefeDesigns.com/ End of reply; So in conclusion! You can record at any level you want, that will determine the LEVEL of quality you get! I always refer back to the Creator for the real story! Your Signal to noise ratio mileage will definitely vary! :) Chuck On May 9, 2014, at 2:34 PM, Poppa Bear wrote: Thanks for sharing this Chuck, I am a bit on the fence about this still. I do understand that many plugs such as the waves are calibrated for about minus 18 DB or so, but at the same time there are controls to adjust many aspects of levels as well as the way plugs respond to signals and such. I had a friend who recorded a session in my studio yesterday with a client and when I checked his session after they left the vocals were sitting at only minus 4DB on the track and minus 10DB on the vocal bus and it sounded really good. Given he doesn't use many plugs and he recorded with compression from a Universal audio peace and as I said, it sounded pretty good with only a touch of reverb. I also notice that I have some clients who are so dynamic that I need to go even lower and some who really know how to project their selves in a consistent way into the mic and I can be less conservative on signal levels. From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of CHUCK REICHEL Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 11:57 AM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: A thanks to Slau and others Hi Poppa, Just a couple of clarifications for you from my life time Friend tom Graefe who was on the Sony Oxford console design teem. :) Heres a couple of quick pointers to remember when tracking. First 24 bit is the resolution of the A/D converter. Yes theoretically the Dynamic range of 24 bits is 144 dB. The reality of usable range is substantially less. That 140+dB has nothing to do with volume or sound pressure level. You should always record to maximum level before clipping to get the maximum signal to noise ratio when recording individual tracks. As you get further away from 0dBFS you start showing up more of the non linearities of the A/D process. This is especially noticeable at very low levels. There is no need for headroom when recording Digital. This is not tape. The A/D is most linear and least artifacts just before 0 dBFS. When designing a system you measure the IMD, Signal to Noise etc. of an A/D at -1 dBFS. Sometimes at -0.5 dBFS. Check out Tom's latest designs here; http://GraefeDesigns.com/ HTH Chuck CHUCK REICHEL soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com www.SoundPictureRecording.com 954-742-0019 GUFFAWING :) In GOD I Trust On May 8, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Poppa Bear wrote: I missed the talk, but in general I record vocals and instruments at about minus 9 to minus 12DB. I do still get projects to mix from clients where vocals are pushed to 0DB and the instrument track is often clipping so your not alone in your experience. - Original Message - From: Slau Halatyn mailto:slauhala...@gmail.com To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 4:33 AM Subject: Re: A thanks to Slau and others Common mistake. People think they need to record as hot as possible and that's not the case. Back when DAWs recorded in 16 bits, it was common practice but with 24 bits, it's absolutely unnecessary. Glad it helped. Slau On May 8, 2014,
RE: A thanks to Slau and others
Thanks for sharing this Chuck, I am a bit on the fence about this still. I do understand that many plugs such as the waves are calibrated for about minus 18 DB or so, but at the same time there are controls to adjust many aspects of levels as well as the way plugs respond to signals and such. I had a friend who recorded a session in my studio yesterday with a client and when I checked his session after they left the vocals were sitting at only minus 4DB on the track and minus 10DB on the vocal bus and it sounded really good. Given he doesn't use many plugs and he recorded with compression from a Universal audio peace and as I said, it sounded pretty good with only a touch of reverb. I also notice that I have some clients who are so dynamic that I need to go even lower and some who really know how to project their selves in a consistent way into the mic and I can be less conservative on signal levels. From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of CHUCK REICHEL Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 11:57 AM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: A thanks to Slau and others Hi Poppa, Just a couple of clarifications for you from my life time Friend tom Graefe who was on the Sony Oxford console design teem. :) Heres a couple of quick pointers to remember when tracking. First 24 bit is the resolution of the A/D converter. Yes theoretically the Dynamic range of 24 bits is 144 dB. The reality of usable range is substantially less. That 140+dB has nothing to do with volume or sound pressure level. You should always record to maximum level before clipping to get the maximum signal to noise ratio when recording individual tracks. As you get further away from 0dBFS you start showing up more of the non linearities of the A/D process. This is especially noticeable at very low levels. There is no need for headroom when recording Digital. This is not tape. The A/D is most linear and least artifacts just before 0 dBFS. When designing a system you measure the IMD, Signal to Noise etc. of an A/D at -1 dBFS. Sometimes at -0.5 dBFS. Check out Tom's latest designs here; http://GraefeDesigns.com/ HTH Chuck CHUCK REICHEL soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com www.SoundPictureRecording.com 954-742-0019 GUFFAWING :) In GOD I Trust On May 8, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Poppa Bear wrote: I missed the talk, but in general I record vocals and instruments at about minus 9 to minus 12DB. I do still get projects to mix from clients where vocals are pushed to 0DB and the instrument track is often clipping so your not alone in your experience. - Original Message - From: Slau Halatyn mailto:slauhala...@gmail.com To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 4:33 AM Subject: Re: A thanks to Slau and others Common mistake. People think they need to record as hot as possible and that's not the case. Back when DAWs recorded in 16 bits, it was common practice but with 24 bits, it's absolutely unnecessary. Glad it helped. Slau On May 8, 2014, at 7:05 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland clgillan...@gmail.com wrote: Just wanted to thank everyone for their help yesterday with my issue regarding clipping and how to better set levels. Slau, I used the techniques that you outlined. I'll admit, it's a bit out of my comfort zone. I'm not use to recording initially at such a low impedance, but man! I did a track that way, then I raised the volume through a master fader, plus a very very slight bit of compression, and man! god almighty! what! a difference! I mean literally! Night! and day! I've never! heard myself sound so clean! and so crisp! I think guys that was a huge bit where I wasn't getting that crispness I've been looking for all these years when I kept saying even dating back to midi mag, about how it was just real muddy. Well, yeah, duh! Of corse it's gonna be! I mean, when you set yourself up to master and mix at the same time? Judice! Priest! No frickin wonder! I sounded all muddy! I mean, I think I was starting my levels on the input gain right at! 0DB. So yeah... W'w'w'w'w'w'w'wayyy! too hot! Man, I cranked that thing back, and boy! did that smoothen things out! I don't know why! I thought it was so necessary to run things so hot! How could I a been so stupid! It's a wonder! I didn't fry my equipment putting so much juice through it! Is it normal, guys? that most people make this mistake when they first get started? I hope I'm not alone, otherwise, I'm gonna be pretty imbarrassed. LOL! Chris. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools
Re: A thanks to Slau and others; Pro tools Levels.
Hi Poppa, What you noticed from that vocal session is where I basically keep my levels, for the last 13 years using PT. I've gotten very good results keeping it up there. I will admit you half to be very diligent while running levels up there! Heres some further clarification of the level discussion from my design Engineer friend. From tom Graefe My ANALOG console has a dynamic range greater than any Protools system. The -20 dB standard by Sony I set for the SDDS system I designed. The -20 dB is a reference for a nominal sound pressure level when mixing motion pictures. It allows 20 dB of headroom for the loud passages and a nominal sound pressure level to be the same in all Theaters. If you gave this guy some real test equipment and show him how to run it he would be surprised how foolish he really is. I have a $20,000.00 Audio Precision test set. If you run an IMD (intermodulation Distortion, a 4 to one mix of 60Hz and 7KHz) at -1dBFS and then do the same at -18 dBFS the IMD can be up to an order of magnitude higher. Your Buddy has no idea about how Digital audio or A/D converters work. Later Tom http://GraefeDesigns.com/ End of reply; So in conclusion! You can record at any level you want, that will determine the LEVEL of quality you get! I always refer back to the Creator for the real story! Your Signal to noise ratio mileage will definitely vary! :) Chuck On May 9, 2014, at 2:34 PM, Poppa Bear wrote: Thanks for sharing this Chuck, I am a bit on the fence about this still. I do understand that many plugs such as the waves are calibrated for about minus 18 DB or so, but at the same time there are controls to adjust many aspects of levels as well as the way plugs respond to signals and such. I had a friend who recorded a session in my studio yesterday with a client and when I checked his session after they left the vocals were sitting at only minus 4DB on the track and minus 10DB on the vocal bus and it sounded really good. Given he doesn't use many plugs and he recorded with compression from a Universal audio peace and as I said, it sounded pretty good with only a touch of reverb. I also notice that I have some clients who are so dynamic that I need to go even lower and some who really know how to project their selves in a consistent way into the mic and I can be less conservative on signal levels. From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of CHUCK REICHEL Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 11:57 AM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: A thanks to Slau and others Hi Poppa, Just a couple of clarifications for you from my life time Friend tom Graefe who was on the Sony Oxford console design teem. :) Heres a couple of quick pointers to remember when tracking. First 24 bit is the resolution of the A/D converter. Yes theoretically the Dynamic range of 24 bits is 144 dB. The reality of usable range is substantially less. That 140+dB has nothing to do with volume or sound pressure level. You should always record to maximum level before clipping to get the maximum signal to noise ratio when recording individual tracks. As you get further away from 0dBFS you start showing up more of the non linearities of the A/D process. This is especially noticeable at very low levels. There is no need for headroom when recording Digital. This is not tape. The A/D is most linear and least artifacts just before 0 dBFS. When designing a system you measure the IMD, Signal to Noise etc. of an A/D at -1 dBFS. Sometimes at -0.5 dBFS. Check out Tom's latest designs here; http://GraefeDesigns.com/ HTH Chuck CHUCK REICHEL soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com www.SoundPictureRecording.com 954-742-0019 GUFFAWING :) In GOD I Trust On May 8, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Poppa Bear wrote: I missed the talk, but in general I record vocals and instruments at about minus 9 to minus 12DB. I do still get projects to mix from clients where vocals are pushed to 0DB and the instrument track is often clipping so your not alone in your experience. - Original Message - From: Slau Halatyn To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 4:33 AM Subject: Re: A thanks to Slau and others Common mistake. People think they need to record as hot as possible and that's not the case. Back when DAWs recorded in 16 bits, it was common practice but with 24 bits, it's absolutely unnecessary. Glad it helped. Slau On May 8, 2014, at 7:05 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland clgillan...@gmail.com wrote: Just wanted to thank everyone for their help yesterday with my issue regarding clipping and how to better set levels. Slau, I used the techniques that you outlined. I'll admit, it's a bit out of my comfort zone. I'm not use to recording initially at such a low impedance, but man! I did a track that way, then I raised the volume through
Re: A thanks to Slau and others
I missed the talk, but in genral I record vocals and instruments at about minus 9 to minus 12DB. I do still get projects to mix from clients where vocals are pushed to 0DB and the instrument track is often clipping so your not alone in your experience. - Original Message - From: Slau Halatyn To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 4:33 AM Subject: Re: A thanks to Slau and others Common mistake. People think they need to record as hot as possible and that's not the case. Back when DAWs recorded in 16 bits, it was common practice but with 24 bits, it's absolutely unnecessary. Glad it helped. Slau On May 8, 2014, at 7:05 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland clgillan...@gmail.com wrote: Just wanted to thank everyone for their help yesterday with my issue regarding clipping and how to better set levels. Slau, I used the techniques that you outlined. I'll admit, it's a bit out of my comfort zone. I'm not use to recording initially at such a low impedance, but man! I did a track that way, then I raised the volume through a master fader, plus a very very slight bit of compression, and man! god almighty! what! a difference! I mean literally! Night! and day! I've never! heard myself sound so clean! and so crisp! I think guys that was a huge bit where I wasn't getting that crispness I've been looking for all these years when I kept saying even dating back to midi mag, about how it was just real muddy. Well, yeah, duh! Of corse it's gonna be! I mean, when you set yourself up to master and mix at the same time? Judice! Priest! No frickin wonder! I sounded all muddy! I mean, I think I was starting my levels on the input gain right at! 0DB. So yeah... W'w'w'w'w'w'w'wayyy! too hot! Man, I cranked that thing back, and boy! did that smoothen things out! I don't know why! I thought it was so necessary to run things so hot! How could I a been so stupid! It's a wonder! I didn't fry my equipment putting so much juice through it! Is it normal, guys? that most people make this mistake when they first get started? I hope I'm not alone, otherwise, I'm gonna be pretty imbarrassed. LOL! Chris. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: A thanks to Slau and others
That is certainly normal. Because we always hear about mixed down. Let me tell you brother it is easier to mix up then to mix down any day thank God for digital. When we hear about mixed down that is probably why most people have their levels that hot. I found that out by accident with Sonar never will set those things so hot. Ricky Prevatte LMBT1154 On May 8, 2014, at 7:05 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland clgillan...@gmail.com wrote: Just wanted to thank everyone for their help yesterday with my issue regarding clipping and how to better set levels. Slau, I used the techniques that you outlined. I'll admit, it's a bit out of my comfort zone. I'm not use to recording initially at such a low impedance, but man! I did a track that way, then I raised the volume through a master fader, plus a very very slight bit of compression, and man! god almighty! what! a difference! I mean literally! Night! and day! I've never! heard myself sound so clean! and so crisp! I think guys that was a huge bit where I wasn't getting that crispness I've been looking for all these years when I kept saying even dating back to midi mag, about how it was just real muddy. Well, yeah, duh! Of corse it's gonna be! I mean, when you set yourself up to master and mix at the same time? Judice! Priest! No frickin wonder! I sounded all muddy! I mean, I think I was starting my levels on the input gain right at! 0DB. So yeah... W'w'w'w'w'w'w'wayyy! too hot! Man, I cranked that thing back, and boy! did that smoothen things out! I don't know why! I thought it was so necessary to run things so hot! How could I a been so stupid! It's a wonder! I didn't fry my equipment putting so much juice through it! Is it normal, guys? that most people make this mistake when they first get started? I hope I'm not alone, otherwise, I'm gonna be pretty imbarrassed. LOL! Chris. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: A thanks to Slau and others
Yep, it's a very common mistake, especially if you first started doing this when most things were 16-bit, and recording hot was a lot more important. And also don't forget that most people are used to hearing commercial recordings with all the dynamics removed, and everything boosted as loud as possible. At 07:05 AM 5/8/2014, you wrote: Just wanted to thank everyone for their help yesterday with my issue regarding clipping and how to better set levels. Slau, I used the techniques that you outlined. I'll admit, it's a bit out of my comfort zone. I'm not use to recording initially at such a low impedance, but man! I did a track that way, then I raised the volume through a master fader, plus a very very slight bit of compression, and man! god almighty! what! a difference! I mean literally! Night! and day! I've never! heard myself sound so clean! and so crisp! I think guys that was a huge bit where I wasn't getting that crispness I've been looking for all these years when I kept saying even dating back to midi mag, about how it was just real muddy. Well, yeah, duh! Of corse it's gonna be! I mean, when you set yourself up to master and mix at the same time? Judice! Priest! No frickin wonder! I sounded all muddy! I mean, I think I was starting my levels on the input gain right at! 0DB. So yeah... W'w'w'w'w'w'w'wayyy! too hot! Man, I cranked that thing back, and boy! did that smoothen things out! I don't know why! I thought it was so necessary to run things so hot! How could I a been so stupid! It's a wonder! I didn't fry my equipment putting so much juice through it! Is it normal, guys? that most people make this mistake when they first get started? I hope I'm not alone, otherwise, I'm gonna be pretty imbarrassed. LOL! Chris. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mailto:ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optouthttps://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: A thanks to Slau and others
Hi Poppa, Just a couple of clarifications for you from my life time Friend tom Graefe who was on the Sony Oxford console design teem. :) Heres a couple of quick pointers to remember when tracking. First 24 bit is the resolution of the A/D converter. Yes theoretically the Dynamic range of 24 bits is 144 dB. The reality of usable range is substantially less. That 140+dB has nothing to do with volume or sound pressure level. You should always record to maximum level before clipping to get the maximum signal to noise ratio when recording individual tracks. As you get further away from 0dBFS you start showing up more of the non linearities of the A/D process. This is especially noticeable at very low levels. There is no need for headroom when recording Digital. This is not tape. The A/D is most linear and least artifacts just before 0 dBFS. When designing a system you measure the IMD, Signal to Noise etc. of an A/D at -1 dBFS. Sometimes at -0.5 dBFS. Check out Tom's latest designs here; http://GraefeDesigns.com/ HTH Chuck CHUCK REICHEL soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com www.SoundPictureRecording.com 954-742-0019 GUFFAWING :) In GOD I Trust On May 8, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Poppa Bear wrote: I missed the talk, but in general I record vocals and instruments at about minus 9 to minus 12DB. I do still get projects to mix from clients where vocals are pushed to 0DB and the instrument track is often clipping so your not alone in your experience. - Original Message - From: Slau Halatyn To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 4:33 AM Subject: Re: A thanks to Slau and others Common mistake. People think they need to record as hot as possible and that's not the case. Back when DAWs recorded in 16 bits, it was common practice but with 24 bits, it's absolutely unnecessary. Glad it helped. Slau On May 8, 2014, at 7:05 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland clgillan...@gmail.com wrote: Just wanted to thank everyone for their help yesterday with my issue regarding clipping and how to better set levels. Slau, I used the techniques that you outlined. I'll admit, it's a bit out of my comfort zone. I'm not use to recording initially at such a low impedance, but man! I did a track that way, then I raised the volume through a master fader, plus a very very slight bit of compression, and man! god almighty! what! a difference! I mean literally! Night! and day! I've never! heard myself sound so clean! and so crisp! I think guys that was a huge bit where I wasn't getting that crispness I've been looking for all these years when I kept saying even dating back to midi mag, about how it was just real muddy. Well, yeah, duh! Of corse it's gonna be! I mean, when you set yourself up to master and mix at the same time? Judice! Priest! No frickin wonder! I sounded all muddy! I mean, I think I was starting my levels on the input gain right at! 0DB. So yeah... W'w'w'w'w'w'w'wayyy! too hot! Man, I cranked that thing back, and boy! did that smoothen things out! I don't know why! I thought it was so necessary to run things so hot! How could I a been so stupid! It's a wonder! I didn't fry my equipment putting so much juice through it! Is it normal, guys? that most people make this mistake when they first get started? I hope I'm not alone, otherwise, I'm gonna be pretty imbarrassed. LOL! Chris. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: A thanks to Slau and others
For what it's worth to all, I'll say this once and I won't comment again because, frankly, this is not a general recording forum, per se. I'm not going to dissuade anyone from commenting further but I personally won't participate because it's a waste of time. What Chuck is suggesting is pure nonsense and I don't care what his friend says. The leading engineers and designers of audio hardware have long ago abandoned the notion of recording as hot as possible. Anyone who interfaces their system with any analog gear immediately runs into problems with gain staging because analog equipment has nowhere near the dynamic range of digital equipment. The reason why Pro Tools has a calibration mode is because of the need for standardization of nominal level. SONY recommends -20 dB FS for nominal level (so Chuck's friend is simply wrong) and Pro Tools defaults to -18 dB FS. I only bring this up to state the facts and, again, I won't comment any further. Slau On May 8, 2014, at 3:56 PM, CHUCK REICHEL soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Poppa, Just a couple of clarifications for you from my life time Friend tom Graefe who was on the Sony Oxford console design teem. :) Heres a couple of quick pointers to remember when tracking. First 24 bit is the resolution of the A/D converter. Yes theoretically the Dynamic range of 24 bits is 144 dB. The reality of usable range is substantially less. That 140+dB has nothing to do with volume or sound pressure level. You should always record to maximum level before clipping to get the maximum signal to noise ratio when recording individual tracks. As you get further away from 0dBFS you start showing up more of the non linearities of the A/D process. This is especially noticeable at very low levels. There is no need for headroom when recording Digital. This is not tape. The A/D is most linear and least artifacts just before 0 dBFS. When designing a system you measure the IMD, Signal to Noise etc. of an A/D at -1 dBFS. Sometimes at -0.5 dBFS. Check out Tom's latest designs here; http://GraefeDesigns.com/ HTH Chuck CHUCK REICHEL soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com www.SoundPictureRecording.com 954-742-0019 GUFFAWING :) In GOD I Trust On May 8, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Poppa Bear wrote: I missed the talk, but in general I record vocals and instruments at about minus 9 to minus 12DB. I do still get projects to mix from clients where vocals are pushed to 0DB and the instrument track is often clipping so your not alone in your experience. - Original Message - From: Slau Halatyn To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 4:33 AM Subject: Re: A thanks to Slau and others Common mistake. People think they need to record as hot as possible and that's not the case. Back when DAWs recorded in 16 bits, it was common practice but with 24 bits, it's absolutely unnecessary. Glad it helped. Slau On May 8, 2014, at 7:05 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland clgillan...@gmail.com wrote: Just wanted to thank everyone for their help yesterday with my issue regarding clipping and how to better set levels. Slau, I used the techniques that you outlined. I'll admit, it's a bit out of my comfort zone. I'm not use to recording initially at such a low impedance, but man! I did a track that way, then I raised the volume through a master fader, plus a very very slight bit of compression, and man! god almighty! what! a difference! I mean literally! Night! and day! I've never! heard myself sound so clean! and so crisp! I think guys that was a huge bit where I wasn't getting that crispness I've been looking for all these years when I kept saying even dating back to midi mag, about how it was just real muddy. Well, yeah, duh! Of corse it's gonna be! I mean, when you set yourself up to master and mix at the same time? Judice! Priest! No frickin wonder! I sounded all muddy! I mean, I think I was starting my levels on the input gain right at! 0DB. So yeah... W'w'w'w'w'w'w'wayyy! too hot! Man, I cranked that thing back, and boy! did that smoothen things out! I don't know why! I thought it was so necessary to run things so hot! How could I a been so stupid! It's a wonder! I didn't fry my equipment putting so much juice through it! Is it normal, guys? that most people make this mistake when they first get started? I hope I'm not alone, otherwise, I'm gonna be pretty imbarrassed. LOL! Chris. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this
Re: A thanks to Slau and others
People get confused by the terminology involved. Nominal does not mean average level. Neither, for that matter, does crest factor mean average. Please check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_level Also, consult various plug-in manufacturers to see what level they recommend for best performance of their various plug-ins. It can vary, but -18 is common. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pro Tools Accessibility group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
