Re: [ptxdist] Python 3.5 and the use of getrandom() system call

[Clemens Gruber]

Hi,

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 09:56:59AM +0100, Alexander Dahl wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 02:21:36PM +0100, David Jander wrote:
> > Or is there a way (that I ignore) to speed-up the generation of
> > entropy in the Linux kernel?
> 
> I heard other people use haveged for this. I have two experimental
> patches for adding a haveged package, but did not test it thouroughly
> yet. Maybe someone else wants to try?

The URL for haveged seems to be down?

From the ArchLinux wiki: "Unless you have a specific reason to not trust
any hardware random number generator on your system, you should try to
use them with the rng-tools first and if it turns out not to be enough
(or if you do not have a hardware random number generator available),
then use Haveged."

Cheers,
Clemens

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Re: [ptxdist] Python 3.5 and the use of getrandom() system call

[Michael Olbrich]

Hi,

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 09:56:59AM +0100, Alexander Dahl wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 02:21:36PM +0100, David Jander wrote:
> > Or is there a way (that I ignore) to speed-up the generation of
> > entropy in the Linux kernel?

I agree with the other that such a patch is not a good idea for ptxdist
upstream.
Collecting enough entropy is not easy. But working around it like this is
imho not something that should be the default.

> I heard other people use haveged for this. I have two experimental
> patches for adding a haveged package, but did not test it thouroughly
> yet. Maybe someone else wants to try?
> 
> https://github.com/LeSpocky/ptxdist/tree/haveged

I prefer a patch (hint, hint :-))...

Michael

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Re: [ptxdist] Python 3.5 and the use of getrandom() system call

[Alexander Dahl]

Hei hei,

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 02:21:36PM +0100, David Jander wrote:
> Or is there a way (that I ignore) to speed-up the generation of
> entropy in the Linux kernel?

I heard other people use haveged for this. I have two experimental
patches for adding a haveged package, but did not test it thouroughly
yet. Maybe someone else wants to try?

https://github.com/LeSpocky/ptxdist/tree/haveged

Greets
Alex

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the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all 
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Re: [ptxdist] Python 3.5 and the use of getrandom() system call

[David Jander]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 18:15:58 +0100
Clemens Gruber  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 02:21:36PM +0100, David Jander wrote:
> > Or is there a way (that I ignore) to speed-up the generation of entropy in 
> > the
> > Linux kernel?  
> 
> Did you build your kernel with CONFIG_CRYPTO_JITTERENTROPY=y and
> CONFIG_CRYPTO_DRBG_HASH=y ?

Yes I had those.

> Also, depending on your platform, there might be hardware support.
> We use an i.MX6 which also includes a hardware RNG in its Cryptographic
> Acceleration And Assurance Module (CAAM).
> So we enabled CONFIG_CRYPTO_DEV_FSL_CAAM and use rngd to feed /dev/hwrng
> into the kernel's entropy pool.

Ah. There it is. I was already wondering if there wasn't any CAAM support. I
expected it under drivers/char/hwrng. Instead it is hidden under /crypto/.

> Could you try with above options and rngd started early? There should be
> much more entropy available in a short time.

Will try that out.

> It's probably a bad idea to just patch python for every PTXdist user.

Yes, I was thinking about making that patch configurable somehow.

> Not everybody is willing to trade security for faster start times.

I agree.

> Besides, not having enough entropy will lead to other problems as well.
> 
> If you are using systemd, verify that
> PTXCONF_SYSTEMD_DISABLE_RANDOM_SEED is not set.
> systemd-random-seed restores the random seed of the system at early boot
> and saves it at shutdown. So only the first boot would take longer.

Thanks a lot.

Best regards,

-- 
David Jander
Protonic Holland.

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Re: [ptxdist] Python 3.5 and the use of getrandom() system call

[Roland Hieber]

On 18.11.2016 18:15, Clemens Gruber wrote:
> It's probably a bad idea to just patch python for every PTXdist user.
> Not everybody is willing to trade security for faster start times.

Judging from Python-3.5.0/Python/random.c:118, it will use the
getrandom() syscall with flags=0, and according to the getrandom(2) man
page, this will read from /dev/urandom, and also block if the
nonblocking entropy pool is not initialized yet. (The man page also
mentions explicitly that the random bytes returned by it can be used for
cryptographic purposes, for all else, see Filippo Valsordas talk at 32c3
[0] ;-)) So, even if it does not solve the original problem (long boot
times), I see nothing wrong with doing this for every user.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8JAlZ-HJQI

> Besides, not having enough entropy will lead to other problems as well.

Oh, could you please elaborate on that? :-)

 - Roland



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Re: [ptxdist] Python 3.5 and the use of getrandom() system call

[Clemens Gruber]

Hi,

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 02:21:36PM +0100, David Jander wrote:
> Or is there a way (that I ignore) to speed-up the generation of entropy in the
> Linux kernel?

Did you build your kernel with CONFIG_CRYPTO_JITTERENTROPY=y and
CONFIG_CRYPTO_DRBG_HASH=y ?

Also, depending on your platform, there might be hardware support.
We use an i.MX6 which also includes a hardware RNG in its Cryptographic
Acceleration And Assurance Module (CAAM).
So we enabled CONFIG_CRYPTO_DEV_FSL_CAAM and use rngd to feed /dev/hwrng
into the kernel's entropy pool.

Could you try with above options and rngd started early? There should be
much more entropy available in a short time.

It's probably a bad idea to just patch python for every PTXdist user.
Not everybody is willing to trade security for faster start times.
Besides, not having enough entropy will lead to other problems as well.

If you are using systemd, verify that
PTXCONF_SYSTEMD_DISABLE_RANDOM_SEED is not set.
systemd-random-seed restores the random seed of the system at early boot
and saves it at shutdown. So only the first boot would take longer.

Regards,
Clemens

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