Re: Offline Web Applications status

2012-05-04 Thread Tab Atkins Jr. 
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 9:09 PM, SULLIVAN, BRYAN L  wrote:
> I like the idea. This would be useful for various things, especially if we 
> could integrate the discovery and selection of this feature (the local proxy 
> Web service) through Web Intents.

I don't understand how Web Intents would be useful here.

~TJ

Re: Offline Web Applications status

2012-05-04 Thread SULLIVAN, BRYAN L 
I like the idea. This would be useful for various things, especially if we 
could integrate the discovery and selection of this feature (the local proxy 
Web service) through Web Intents.

Thanks,
Bryan Sullivan

On May 4, 2012, at 6:48 PM, "Tab Atkins Jr."  wrote:

> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Ian Hickson  wrote:
>> An idea I was kicking around for this would be to simplify the three
>> points above to instead have just a way to declare a JS file as being a
>> local interceptor, and then have that JS file be automatically launched in
>> a worker thread, and then every network request gets proxied through that
>> worker in some well-defined manner. The worker could then either say "do
>> whatever you would normally do for that URL", or "redirect to this URL and
>> try again", or "here's the data for that URL".
>> 
>> How does that sound?
> 
> So this is, more or less, running a local server in JS, right?  (One
> that only the page can talk to, of course.)
> 
> If so, I definitely approve.  I think this is a great way to handle
> offline webapps, so the front-end can be written to assume that
> there's always *something* on the back-end that it can talk to.  This
> invariant greatly simplifies the mental cost of writing an app, I
> think.
> 
> ~TJ
>

Re: Offline Web Applications status

2012-05-04 Thread Tab Atkins Jr. 
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Ian Hickson  wrote:
> An idea I was kicking around for this would be to simplify the three
> points above to instead have just a way to declare a JS file as being a
> local interceptor, and then have that JS file be automatically launched in
> a worker thread, and then every network request gets proxied through that
> worker in some well-defined manner. The worker could then either say "do
> whatever you would normally do for that URL", or "redirect to this URL and
> try again", or "here's the data for that URL".
>
> How does that sound?

So this is, more or less, running a local server in JS, right?  (One
that only the page can talk to, of course.)

If so, I definitely approve.  I think this is a great way to handle
offline webapps, so the front-end can be written to assume that
there's always *something* on the back-end that it can talk to.  This
invariant greatly simplifies the mental cost of writing an app, I
think.

~TJ

Re: [IndexedDB] Bug 14404: What happens when a versionchange transaction is aborted?

2012-05-04 Thread Jonas Sicking 
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Joshua Bell  wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Jonas Sicking  wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Israel Hilerio 
>> wrote:
>> > On Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:30 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
>> >> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:30 AM, Jonas Sicking  wrote:
>> >> > Hi All,
>> >> >
>> >> > The issue of bug 14404 came up at the WebApps face-to-face today. I
>> >> > believe it's now the only remaining non-editorial bug. Since we've
>> >> > tried to fix this bug a couple of times in the spec already, but it
>> >> > still remains confusing/ambigious, I wanted to re-iterate what I
>> >> > believe we had decided on the list already to make sure that we're
>> >> > all
>> >> > on the same page:
>> >> >
>> >> > Please note that in all cases where I say "reverted", it means that
>> >> > the properties on the JS-object instances are actually *changed*.
>> >> >
>> >> > When a versionchange transaction is aborted, the following actions
>> >> > will be taken:
>> >> >
>> >> > IDBTransaction.name is not modified at all. I.e. even if is is a
>> >> > transaction used to create a new database, and thus there is no
>> >> > on-disk database, IDBTransaction.name remains as it was.
>> >> >
>> >> > IDBTransaction.version will be reverted to the version the on-disk
>> >> > database had before the transaction was started. If the versionchange
>> >> > transaction was started because the database was newly created, this
>> >> > means reverting it to version 0, if it was started in response to a
>> >> > version upgrade, this means reverting to the version it had before
>> >> > the
>> >> > transaction was started. Incidentally, this is the only time that the
>> >> > IDBTransaction.version property ever changes value on a given
>> >> > IDBTransaction instance.
>> >> >
>> >> > IDBTransaction.objectStoreNames is reverted to the list of names that
>> >> > it had before the transaction was started. If the versionchange
>> >> > transaction was started because the database was newly created, this
>> >> > means reverting it to an empty list, if it was started in response to
>> >> > a version upgrade, this means reverting to the list of object store
>> >> > names it had before the transaction was started.
>> >> >
>> >> > IDBObjectStore.indexNames for each object store is reverted to the
>> >> > list of names that it had before the transaction was started. Note
>> >> > that while you can't get to object stores using the
>> >> > transaction.objectStore function after a transaction is aborted, the
>> >> > page might still have references to objec store instances and so
>> >> > IDBObjectStore.indexNames can still be accessed. This means that for
>> >> > any object store which was created by the transaction, the list is
>> >> > reverted to an empty list. For any object store which existed before
>> >> > the transaction was started, it means reverting to the list of index
>> >> > names it had before the transaction was started. For any object store
>> >> > which was deleted during the transaction, the list of names is still
>> >> > reverted to the list it had before the transaction was started, which
>> >> > potentially is a non-empty list.
>> >> >
>> >> > (We could of course make an exception for deleted objectStore and
>> >> > define that their .indexNames property remains empty. Either way we
>> >> > should explicitly call it out).
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > The alternative is that when a versionchange transaction is aborted,
>> >> > the
>> >> >
>> >> > IDBTransaction.name/IDBTransaction.objectStoreNames/IDBObjectStore.ind
>> >> > exNames properties all remain the value that they have when the
>> >> > transaction is aborted. But last we talked about this Google,
>> >> > Microsoft and Opera preferred the other solution (at least that's how
>> >> > I understood it).
>> >>
>> >> Oh, and I should add that no matter what solution with go with (i.e.
>> >> whether we change the properties back to the values they had before the
>> >> transaction, or if we leave them as they were at the time when the
>> >> transaction is
>> >> aborted), we should *of course* on disk revert any changes that were
>> >> done to
>> >> the database.
>> >>
>> >> The question is only what we should do to the properties of the
>> >> in-memory JS
>> >> objects.
>> >>
>> >> / Jonas
>> >
>> > What you describe at the beginning of your email is what we recall too
>> > and like :-).  In other words, the values of the transacted objects (i.e.
>> > database, objectStores, indexes) will be reverted to their original values
>> > when an upgrade transaction fails to commit, even if it was aborted.  And
>> > when the DB is created for the first time, we will leave the objectStore
>> > names as an empty list and the version as 0.
>>
>> I'll assume that this includes updating IDBObjectStore.indexNames on
>> objectStores that were deleted.
>>
>> Sounds like this is the way we should go then, unless Google is very
>> opposed to it.
>>
>> > We're assuming that i

Re: [IndexedDB] Bug 14404: What happens when a versionchange transaction is aborted?

2012-05-04 Thread Joshua Bell 
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Jonas Sicking  wrote:

> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Israel Hilerio 
> wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:30 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
> >> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:30 AM, Jonas Sicking  wrote:
> >> > Hi All,
> >> >
> >> > The issue of bug 14404 came up at the WebApps face-to-face today. I
> >> > believe it's now the only remaining non-editorial bug. Since we've
> >> > tried to fix this bug a couple of times in the spec already, but it
> >> > still remains confusing/ambigious, I wanted to re-iterate what I
> >> > believe we had decided on the list already to make sure that we're all
> >> > on the same page:
> >> >
> >> > Please note that in all cases where I say "reverted", it means that
> >> > the properties on the JS-object instances are actually *changed*.
> >> >
> >> > When a versionchange transaction is aborted, the following actions
> >> > will be taken:
> >> >
> >> > IDBTransaction.name is not modified at all. I.e. even if is is a
> >> > transaction used to create a new database, and thus there is no
> >> > on-disk database, IDBTransaction.name remains as it was.
> >> >
> >> > IDBTransaction.version will be reverted to the version the on-disk
> >> > database had before the transaction was started. If the versionchange
> >> > transaction was started because the database was newly created, this
> >> > means reverting it to version 0, if it was started in response to a
> >> > version upgrade, this means reverting to the version it had before the
> >> > transaction was started. Incidentally, this is the only time that the
> >> > IDBTransaction.version property ever changes value on a given
> >> > IDBTransaction instance.
> >> >
> >> > IDBTransaction.objectStoreNames is reverted to the list of names that
> >> > it had before the transaction was started. If the versionchange
> >> > transaction was started because the database was newly created, this
> >> > means reverting it to an empty list, if it was started in response to
> >> > a version upgrade, this means reverting to the list of object store
> >> > names it had before the transaction was started.
> >> >
> >> > IDBObjectStore.indexNames for each object store is reverted to the
> >> > list of names that it had before the transaction was started. Note
> >> > that while you can't get to object stores using the
> >> > transaction.objectStore function after a transaction is aborted, the
> >> > page might still have references to objec store instances and so
> >> > IDBObjectStore.indexNames can still be accessed. This means that for
> >> > any object store which was created by the transaction, the list is
> >> > reverted to an empty list. For any object store which existed before
> >> > the transaction was started, it means reverting to the list of index
> >> > names it had before the transaction was started. For any object store
> >> > which was deleted during the transaction, the list of names is still
> >> > reverted to the list it had before the transaction was started, which
> >> > potentially is a non-empty list.
> >> >
> >> > (We could of course make an exception for deleted objectStore and
> >> > define that their .indexNames property remains empty. Either way we
> >> > should explicitly call it out).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The alternative is that when a versionchange transaction is aborted,
> >> > the
> >> > IDBTransaction.name/IDBTransaction.objectStoreNames/IDBObjectStore.ind
> >> > exNames properties all remain the value that they have when the
> >> > transaction is aborted. But last we talked about this Google,
> >> > Microsoft and Opera preferred the other solution (at least that's how
> >> > I understood it).
> >>
> >> Oh, and I should add that no matter what solution with go with (i.e.
> >> whether we change the properties back to the values they had before the
> >> transaction, or if we leave them as they were at the time when the
> transaction is
> >> aborted), we should *of course* on disk revert any changes that were
> done to
> >> the database.
> >>
> >> The question is only what we should do to the properties of the
> in-memory JS
> >> objects.
> >>
> >> / Jonas
> >
> > What you describe at the beginning of your email is what we recall too
> and like :-).  In other words, the values of the transacted objects (i.e.
> database, objectStores, indexes) will be reverted to their original values
> when an upgrade transaction fails to commit, even if it was aborted.  And
> when the DB is created for the first time, we will leave the objectStore
> names as an empty list and the version as 0.
>
> I'll assume that this includes updating IDBObjectStore.indexNames on
> objectStores that were deleted.
>
> Sounds like this is the way we should go then, unless Google is very
> opposed to it.
>
> > We're assuming that instead of
> IDBTransaction.name/objectStoreNames/version you meant to write IDBDatabase.
>
> Yes. Thanks for catching this.
>
> Someone needs to edit this into the spec as the current spec text
> i

Re: [IndexedDB] Bug 14404: What happens when a versionchange transaction is aborted?

2012-05-04 Thread Jonas Sicking 
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Israel Hilerio  wrote:
> On Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:30 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:30 AM, Jonas Sicking  wrote:
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > The issue of bug 14404 came up at the WebApps face-to-face today. I
>> > believe it's now the only remaining non-editorial bug. Since we've
>> > tried to fix this bug a couple of times in the spec already, but it
>> > still remains confusing/ambigious, I wanted to re-iterate what I
>> > believe we had decided on the list already to make sure that we're all
>> > on the same page:
>> >
>> > Please note that in all cases where I say "reverted", it means that
>> > the properties on the JS-object instances are actually *changed*.
>> >
>> > When a versionchange transaction is aborted, the following actions
>> > will be taken:
>> >
>> > IDBTransaction.name is not modified at all. I.e. even if is is a
>> > transaction used to create a new database, and thus there is no
>> > on-disk database, IDBTransaction.name remains as it was.
>> >
>> > IDBTransaction.version will be reverted to the version the on-disk
>> > database had before the transaction was started. If the versionchange
>> > transaction was started because the database was newly created, this
>> > means reverting it to version 0, if it was started in response to a
>> > version upgrade, this means reverting to the version it had before the
>> > transaction was started. Incidentally, this is the only time that the
>> > IDBTransaction.version property ever changes value on a given
>> > IDBTransaction instance.
>> >
>> > IDBTransaction.objectStoreNames is reverted to the list of names that
>> > it had before the transaction was started. If the versionchange
>> > transaction was started because the database was newly created, this
>> > means reverting it to an empty list, if it was started in response to
>> > a version upgrade, this means reverting to the list of object store
>> > names it had before the transaction was started.
>> >
>> > IDBObjectStore.indexNames for each object store is reverted to the
>> > list of names that it had before the transaction was started. Note
>> > that while you can't get to object stores using the
>> > transaction.objectStore function after a transaction is aborted, the
>> > page might still have references to objec store instances and so
>> > IDBObjectStore.indexNames can still be accessed. This means that for
>> > any object store which was created by the transaction, the list is
>> > reverted to an empty list. For any object store which existed before
>> > the transaction was started, it means reverting to the list of index
>> > names it had before the transaction was started. For any object store
>> > which was deleted during the transaction, the list of names is still
>> > reverted to the list it had before the transaction was started, which
>> > potentially is a non-empty list.
>> >
>> > (We could of course make an exception for deleted objectStore and
>> > define that their .indexNames property remains empty. Either way we
>> > should explicitly call it out).
>> >
>> >
>> > The alternative is that when a versionchange transaction is aborted,
>> > the
>> > IDBTransaction.name/IDBTransaction.objectStoreNames/IDBObjectStore.ind
>> > exNames properties all remain the value that they have when the
>> > transaction is aborted. But last we talked about this Google,
>> > Microsoft and Opera preferred the other solution (at least that's how
>> > I understood it).
>>
>> Oh, and I should add that no matter what solution with go with (i.e.
>> whether we change the properties back to the values they had before the
>> transaction, or if we leave them as they were at the time when the 
>> transaction is
>> aborted), we should *of course* on disk revert any changes that were done to
>> the database.
>>
>> The question is only what we should do to the properties of the in-memory JS
>> objects.
>>
>> / Jonas
>
> What you describe at the beginning of your email is what we recall too and 
> like :-).  In other words, the values of the transacted objects (i.e. 
> database, objectStores, indexes) will be reverted to their original values 
> when an upgrade transaction fails to commit, even if it was aborted.  And 
> when the DB is created for the first time, we will leave the objectStore 
> names as an empty list and the version as 0.

I'll assume that this includes updating IDBObjectStore.indexNames on
objectStores that were deleted.

Sounds like this is the way we should go then, unless Google is very
opposed to it.

> We're assuming that instead of IDBTransaction.name/objectStoreNames/version 
> you meant to write IDBDatabase.

Yes. Thanks for catching this.

Someone needs to edit this into the spec as the current spec text
isn't really sufficient. I believe this is the only thing preventing
us from going into Last Call!! (woot!)

/ Jonas

RE: [IndexedDB] Bug 14404: What happens when a versionchange transaction is aborted?

2012-05-04 Thread Israel Hilerio 
On Thursday, May 03, 2012 3:30 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:30 AM, Jonas Sicking  wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > The issue of bug 14404 came up at the WebApps face-to-face today. I
> > believe it's now the only remaining non-editorial bug. Since we've
> > tried to fix this bug a couple of times in the spec already, but it
> > still remains confusing/ambigious, I wanted to re-iterate what I
> > believe we had decided on the list already to make sure that we're all
> > on the same page:
> >
> > Please note that in all cases where I say "reverted", it means that
> > the properties on the JS-object instances are actually *changed*.
> >
> > When a versionchange transaction is aborted, the following actions
> > will be taken:
> >
> > IDBTransaction.name is not modified at all. I.e. even if is is a
> > transaction used to create a new database, and thus there is no
> > on-disk database, IDBTransaction.name remains as it was.
> >
> > IDBTransaction.version will be reverted to the version the on-disk
> > database had before the transaction was started. If the versionchange
> > transaction was started because the database was newly created, this
> > means reverting it to version 0, if it was started in response to a
> > version upgrade, this means reverting to the version it had before the
> > transaction was started. Incidentally, this is the only time that the
> > IDBTransaction.version property ever changes value on a given
> > IDBTransaction instance.
> >
> > IDBTransaction.objectStoreNames is reverted to the list of names that
> > it had before the transaction was started. If the versionchange
> > transaction was started because the database was newly created, this
> > means reverting it to an empty list, if it was started in response to
> > a version upgrade, this means reverting to the list of object store
> > names it had before the transaction was started.
> >
> > IDBObjectStore.indexNames for each object store is reverted to the
> > list of names that it had before the transaction was started. Note
> > that while you can't get to object stores using the
> > transaction.objectStore function after a transaction is aborted, the
> > page might still have references to objec store instances and so
> > IDBObjectStore.indexNames can still be accessed. This means that for
> > any object store which was created by the transaction, the list is
> > reverted to an empty list. For any object store which existed before
> > the transaction was started, it means reverting to the list of index
> > names it had before the transaction was started. For any object store
> > which was deleted during the transaction, the list of names is still
> > reverted to the list it had before the transaction was started, which
> > potentially is a non-empty list.
> >
> > (We could of course make an exception for deleted objectStore and
> > define that their .indexNames property remains empty. Either way we
> > should explicitly call it out).
> >
> >
> > The alternative is that when a versionchange transaction is aborted,
> > the
> > IDBTransaction.name/IDBTransaction.objectStoreNames/IDBObjectStore.ind
> > exNames properties all remain the value that they have when the
> > transaction is aborted. But last we talked about this Google,
> > Microsoft and Opera preferred the other solution (at least that's how
> > I understood it).
> 
> Oh, and I should add that no matter what solution with go with (i.e.
> whether we change the properties back to the values they had before the
> transaction, or if we leave them as they were at the time when the 
> transaction is
> aborted), we should *of course* on disk revert any changes that were done to
> the database.
> 
> The question is only what we should do to the properties of the in-memory JS
> objects.
> 
> / Jonas

What you describe at the beginning of your email is what we recall too and like 
:-).  In other words, the values of the transacted objects (i.e. database, 
objectStores, indexes) will be reverted to their original values when an 
upgrade transaction fails to commit, even if it was aborted.  And when the DB 
is created for the first time, we will leave the objectStore names as an empty 
list and the version as 0.

We're assuming that instead of IDBTransaction.name/objectStoreNames/version you 
meant to write IDBDatabase.

Israel

Re: [webcomponents] Custom Elements Spec

2012-05-04 Thread Ian Hickson 
On Fri, 4 May 2012, Marat Tanalin | tanalin.com wrote:
> >
> > So what happens in browsers that don't support components? Or in 
> > search engines or other data analysis tools that are trying to extract 
> > the semantics from the page?
> 
> Elements with custom tag-names would have EXACTLY SAME semantic (as for 
> core HTML5 semantics) meaning as a common container (SPAN or DIV) with a 
> class. No more and no less.

If it's purely stylistic, then using  and not having semantics is 
fine. Stylistic components should just be invoked from the CSS layer.

Components that are not purely stylistic, e,g, things like form controls
or data (tables or graphical), need to have fallback semantics. Those are 
the ones that appear in the markup.

-- 
Ian Hickson   U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/   U+263A/,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

Re: [webcomponents] Custom Elements Spec

2012-05-04 Thread Marat Tanalin | tanalin . com 
> So what happens in browsers that don't support components? Or in search
> engines or other data analysis tools that are trying to extract the
> semantics from the page?

Elements with custom tag-names would have EXACTLY SAME semantic (as for core 
HTML5 semantics) meaning as a common container (SPAN or DIV) with a class. No 
more and no less.

P.S. FWIW: my proposal for custom elements:
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14011


04.05.2012, 22:58, "Ian Hickson" :
> On Fri, 4 May 2012, Marat Tanalin | tanalin.com wrote:
>
>>  Instead, they have _local_ semantics which purpose is known exclusively
>>  for document author/scripts and/or consumers of the document. No any
>>  "fallbacks" needed here at all.
>
> So what happens in browsers that don't support components? Or in search
> engines or other data analysis tools that are trying to extract the
> semantics from the page?
>
> Having elements with no well-defined semantic meaning is counter to the
> entire philosophy of the Web, IMHO. I strongly disagree that we should be
> even attempting to allow it, let alone optimising for it.
>
> --
> Ian Hickson   U+1047E    )\._.,--,'``.    fL
> http://ln.hixie.ch/   U+263A    /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
> Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

Re: [webcomponents] Custom Elements Spec

2012-05-04 Thread Ian Hickson 
On Fri, 4 May 2012, Marat Tanalin | tanalin.com wrote:
> 
> Instead, they have _local_ semantics which purpose is known exclusively 
> for document author/scripts and/or consumers of the document. No any 
> "fallbacks" needed here at all.

So what happens in browsers that don't support components? Or in search 
engines or other data analysis tools that are trying to extract the 
semantics from the page?

Having elements with no well-defined semantic meaning is counter to the 
entire philosophy of the Web, IMHO. I strongly disagree that we should be 
even attempting to allow it, let alone optimising for it.

-- 
Ian Hickson   U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/   U+263A/,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

Typo in NotReadableError defintion?

2012-05-04 Thread Sharon Newman (COHEN) 
I noticed this yesterday: 
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/FileAPI/#dfn-NotReadableError 

the NotReadableError is defined as: 

If the File or Blob cannot be read, typically due due to permission problems 
that occur after a reference to a File or Blob has been acquired (e.g. 
concurrent lock with another application) then for asynchronous read methods 
the error attribute MUST return a "NotFoundError" DOMError and synchronous read 
methods MUST throw a NotFoundError exception.

Is this a typo?  Shouldn't the instances here of "NotFoundError" be 
"NotReadableError"?

- sharon

Re: CfC: publish a FPWD of Web Components Explainer; deadline May 9

2012-05-04 Thread Dimitri Glazkov 
FYI: I buffed up the explainer to conform to PubRules:
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/explainer/index.html

:DG<

Re: [webcomponents] Custom Elements Spec

2012-05-04 Thread Marat Tanalin | tanalin . com 
Ian, it seems you are continuing to confuse two very different things:

1. local semantics;
2. extending existing elements.

They have completely different purposes. Web-developers generally do not need 
to _extend_ existing elements (purpose of such extending itself is quite 
mysterious for me).

What we need is local semantics that has more elegant code representation than 
_common_ container (SPAN or DIV) with a class. For example:



looks far better, compact, readable, and sensible than:



(at the same extent as  is better and smarter then  
even if P had no any semantic sense).

Both  and  have NO global semantics at all like 
that SELECT element have.

Instead, they have _local_ semantics which purpose is known exclusively for 
document author/scripts and/or consumers of the document. No any "fallbacks" 
needed here at all.

Some of possible additional practical benefits of custom tag-names are:

 * browsers could implement more effective markup error correction
   based on equality of tag-name of opening and closing tags;

 * microformats that would not forced to rely on classes,
   but would use tag names instead.

As for markup error correction: for example, in case of multiple nested DIVs, 
browser cannot unambiguously determine what exact DIV a closing tag is related 
to:






With custom tag-names, browser could easily determine exact element that has 
closing tag absent:






Again: local semantics (custom _tag-names_) has nothing to do with "custom 
elements" in their current form like .

Thanks.

04.05.2012, 08:19, "Ian Hickson" :
> On Tue, 1 May 2012, Dimitri Glazkov wrote:
>
>>  Custom tags vs. "is" attribute
>>  - "is" attribute is awkward, overly verbose
>>  - custom tags introduce local semantics
>>  - perhaps start with something as simple as reserving "x-" prefix on
>>  HTML tags for local semantics.
>
> Whether it's
>
>    
>
> ...or:
>
>    
>
> ...you have the same level of awkwardness. The advantage of the second
> one, aside from being less ugly and generally terser, is that it actually
> has workable fallback in legacy UAs -- the first one would only work in
> UAs that supported components or at a minimum knew enough about components
> to know how the fallback mechanism worked. (Also, the first one runs the
> risk that authors would start forgetting to give a fallback, with its
> resulting implications on accessibility, search engines, etc.)
>
> --
> Ian Hickson   U+1047E    )\._.,--,'``.    fL
> http://ln.hixie.ch/   U+263A    /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
> Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

[Bug 16930] I don't like public data

2012-05-04 Thread bugzilla 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16930

Art Barstow  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 CC||art.bars...@nokia.com
 Resolution||WORKSFORME

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[Bug 16931] In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.. my

2012-05-04 Thread bugzilla 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16931

Art Barstow  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 CC||art.bars...@nokia.com
 Resolution||INVALID

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[Bug 16932] In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.. my

2012-05-04 Thread bugzilla 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16932

Art Barstow  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 CC||art.bars...@nokia.com
 Resolution||INVALID

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[Bug 16933] In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.. my

2012-05-04 Thread bugzilla 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16933

Art Barstow  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 CC||art.bars...@nokia.com
 Resolution||INVALID

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[Bug 16934] In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.. my

2012-05-04 Thread bugzilla 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16934

Art Barstow  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 CC||art.bars...@nokia.com
 Resolution||INVALID

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Re: [webcomponents] Custom Elements Spec

2012-05-04 Thread Dimitri Glazkov 
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Ian Hickson  wrote:
> On Tue, 1 May 2012, Dimitri Glazkov wrote:
>>
>> Custom tags vs. "is" attribute
>> - "is" attribute is awkward, overly verbose
>> - custom tags introduce local semantics
>> - perhaps start with something as simple as reserving "x-" prefix on
>> HTML tags for local semantics.
>
> Whether it's
>
>   
>
> ...or:
>
>   
>
> ...you have the same level of awkwardness. The advantage of the second
> one, aside from being less ugly and generally terser, is that it actually
> has workable fallback in legacy UAs -- the first one would only work in
> UAs that supported components or at a minimum knew enough about components
> to know how the fallback mechanism worked. (Also, the first one runs the
> risk that authors would start forgetting to give a fallback, with its
> resulting implications on accessibility, search engines, etc.)

I completely agree, given these two choices. However, it's possible we
have more choices that these two -- they just haven't been discovered.

I am happy to see that there is a momentum in JS frameworks toward
using DOM tree as a composition medium (Microsoft's WinJS, AngularJS,
QuickUI, and others), and they will undoubtedly have to solve this
problem. I'll be watching for cowpaths.

:DG<

>
> --
> Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--,'``.    fL
> http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
> Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

[Bug 16933] New: In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.

2012-05-04 Thread bugzilla 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16933

   Summary: In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed
that for how many months always asking my self what
can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im
not expert of computer.. my technician and my freind
partners in crime.. my account was hacked si
   Product: WebAppsWG
   Version: unspecified
  Platform: Other
   URL: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#top
OS/Version: other
Status: NEW
  Severity: normal
  Priority: P3
 Component: Web Storage (editor: Ian Hickson)
AssignedTo: i...@hixie.ch
ReportedBy: contribu...@whatwg.org
 QAContact: public-webapps-bugzi...@w3.org
CC: i...@hixie.ch, m...@w3.org, public-webapps@w3.org


Specification: http://www.w3.org/TR/webstorage/
Multipage: http://www.whatwg.org/C#top
Complete: http://www.whatwg.org/c#top

Comment:
In a good manner, sir/madaam,
i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can
i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.. my
technician and my freind partners in crime.. my account was hacked since oct,
2011,i only fully detect cause why my boyriend asking me why you are public
document online? you ad ur self in website he ask me? but i swear to god i
never ad and never know how to apply and what kind of this works.. i really
get anger cause in this case,i have a death treat due to money here in
website, the sell my daughter, and me also using my fb account, skype,
cherryblossom, filipino cupid. badoo site. i dont know in other site cause
that is only i were go to check? i accused my freind and tech. why this doing
to me cause no one can touch my computer except my freind and my tech.this is
criminal case without my authority using my identity,i do not have already
dignity and privacy cause my document and system sale already here. this
hacker is crazy, she use alot of user name and i dentity cause she have a lot
of computer? that without knowing in other ladies add online...please? i am
asking from the buttom of my heart help me i change already my desktop,,,
cause i dont know how to fixed, but does not the answer cause im still
modified in hacker the way detecting in my name celpon and all contacts... sir
pardon me i hope before i die you can change and disable account in web. this
is the business of hacker can make money usng diff face and account,,, were is
our freedom and privacy?...GOD BLESS AND THANK YOU

Posted from: 121.54.32.134
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko)
Chrome/18.0.1025.168 Safari/535.19

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[Bug 16932] New: In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.

2012-05-04 Thread bugzilla 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16932

   Summary: In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed
that for how many months always asking my self what
can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im
not expert of computer.. my technician and my freind
partners in crime.. my account was hacked si
   Product: WebAppsWG
   Version: unspecified
  Platform: Other
   URL: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#top
OS/Version: other
Status: NEW
  Severity: normal
  Priority: P3
 Component: Web Storage (editor: Ian Hickson)
AssignedTo: i...@hixie.ch
ReportedBy: contribu...@whatwg.org
 QAContact: public-webapps-bugzi...@w3.org
CC: i...@hixie.ch, m...@w3.org, public-webapps@w3.org


Specification: http://www.w3.org/TR/webstorage/
Multipage: http://www.whatwg.org/C#top
Complete: http://www.whatwg.org/c#top

Comment:
In a good manner, sir/madaam,
i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can
i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.. my
technician and my freind partners in crime.. my account was hacked since oct,
2011,i only fully detect cause why my boyriend asking me why you are public
document online? you ad ur self in website he ask me? but i swear to god i
never ad and never know how to apply and what kind of this works.. i really
get anger cause in this case,i have a death treat due to money here in
website, the sell my daughter, and me also using my fb account, skype,
cherryblossom, filipino cupid. badoo site. i dont know in other site cause
that is only i were go to check? i accused my freind and tech. why this doing
to me cause no one can touch my computer except my freind and my tech.this is
criminal case without my authority using my identity,i do not have already
dignity and privacy cause my document and system sale already here. this
hacker is crazy, she use alot of user name and i dentity cause she have a lot
of computer? that without knowing in other ladies add online...please? i am
asking from the buttom of my heart help me i change already my desktop,,,
cause i dont know how to fixed, but does not the answer cause im still
modified in hacker the way detecting in my name celpon and all contacts... sir
pardon me i hope before i die you can change and disable account in web. this
is the business of hacker can make money usng diff face and account,,, were is
our freedom and privacy?...GOD BLESS AND THANK YOU

Posted from: 121.54.32.134
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko)
Chrome/18.0.1025.168 Safari/535.19

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[Bug 16934] New: In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.

2012-05-04 Thread bugzilla 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16934

   Summary: In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed
that for how many months always asking my self what
can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im
not expert of computer.. my technician and my freind
partners in crime.. my account was hacked si
   Product: WebAppsWG
   Version: unspecified
  Platform: Other
   URL: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#top
OS/Version: other
Status: NEW
  Severity: normal
  Priority: P3
 Component: Web Storage (editor: Ian Hickson)
AssignedTo: i...@hixie.ch
ReportedBy: contribu...@whatwg.org
 QAContact: public-webapps-bugzi...@w3.org
CC: i...@hixie.ch, m...@w3.org, public-webapps@w3.org


Specification: http://www.w3.org/TR/webstorage/
Multipage: http://www.whatwg.org/C#top
Complete: http://www.whatwg.org/c#top

Comment:
In a good manner, sir/madaam,
i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can
i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.. my
technician and my freind partners in crime.. my account was hacked since oct,
2011,i only fully detect cause why my boyriend asking me why you are public
document online? you ad ur self in website he ask me? but i swear to god i
never ad and never know how to apply and what kind of this works.. i really
get anger cause in this case,i have a death treat due to money here in
website, the sell my daughter, and me also using my fb account, skype,
cherryblossom, filipino cupid. badoo site. i dont know in other site cause
that is only i were go to check? i accused my freind and tech. why this doing
to me cause no one can touch my computer except my freind and my tech.this is
criminal case without my authority using my identity,i do not have already
dignity and privacy cause my document and system sale already here. this
hacker is crazy, she use alot of user name and i dentity cause she have a lot
of computer? that without knowing in other ladies add online...please? i am
asking from the buttom of my heart help me i change already my desktop,,,
cause i dont know how to fixed, but does not the answer cause im still
modified in hacker the way detecting in my name celpon and all contacts... sir
pardon me i hope before i die you can change and disable account in web. this
is the business of hacker can make money usng diff face and account,,, were is
our freedom and privacy?...GOD BLESS AND THANK YOU

Posted from: 121.54.32.134
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko)
Chrome/18.0.1025.168 Safari/535.19

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[Bug 16931] New: In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.

2012-05-04 Thread bugzilla 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16931

   Summary: In a good manner, sir/madaam, i am very disapointed
that for how many months always asking my self what
can i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im
not expert of computer.. my technician and my freind
partners in crime.. my account was hacked si
   Product: WebAppsWG
   Version: unspecified
  Platform: Other
   URL: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#top
OS/Version: other
Status: NEW
  Severity: normal
  Priority: P3
 Component: Web Storage (editor: Ian Hickson)
AssignedTo: i...@hixie.ch
ReportedBy: contribu...@whatwg.org
 QAContact: public-webapps-bugzi...@w3.org
CC: i...@hixie.ch, m...@w3.org, public-webapps@w3.org


Specification: http://www.w3.org/TR/webstorage/
Multipage: http://www.whatwg.org/C#top
Complete: http://www.whatwg.org/c#top

Comment:
In a good manner, sir/madaam,
i am very disapointed that for how many months always asking my self what can
i do my computer, and how to fixed it, shortly im not expert of computer.. my
technician and my freind partners in crime.. my account was hacked since oct,
2011,i only fully detect cause why my boyriend asking me why you are public
document online? you ad ur self in website he ask me? but i swear to god i
never ad and never know how to apply and what kind of this works.. i really
get anger cause in this case,i have a death treat due to money here in
website, the sell my daughter, and me also using my fb account, skype,
cherryblossom, filipino cupid. badoo site. i dont know in other site cause
that is only i were go to check? i accused my freind and tech. why this doing
to me cause no one can touch my computer except my freind and my tech.this is
criminal case without my authority using my identity,i do not have already
dignity and privacy cause my document and system sale already here. this
hacker is crazy, she use alot of user name and i dentity cause she have a lot
of computer? that without knowing in other ladies add online...please? i am
asking from the buttom of my heart help me i change already my desktop,,,
cause i dont know how to fixed, but does not the answer cause im still
modified in hacker the way detecting in my name celpon and all contacts... sir
pardon me i hope before i die you can change and disable account in web. this
is the business of hacker can make money usng diff face and account,,, were is
our freedom and privacy?...GOD BLESS AND THANK YOU

Posted from: 121.54.32.134
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko)
Chrome/18.0.1025.168 Safari/535.19

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[Bug 16930] New: I don't like public data

2012-05-04 Thread bugzilla 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16930

   Summary: I don't like public data
   Product: WebAppsWG
   Version: unspecified
  Platform: Other
   URL: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#top
OS/Version: other
Status: NEW
  Severity: normal
  Priority: P3
 Component: WebSocket API (editor: Ian Hickson)
AssignedTo: i...@hixie.ch
ReportedBy: contribu...@whatwg.org
 QAContact: public-webapps-bugzi...@w3.org
CC: m...@w3.org, public-webapps@w3.org


Specification: http://www.w3.org/TR/websockets/
Multipage: http://www.whatwg.org/C#top
Complete: http://www.whatwg.org/c#top

Comment:
I don't like public data 

Posted from: 141.0.11.57
User agent: Opera/9.80 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/4.4.29476/27.1597; U; en)
Presto/2.8.119 Version/11.10

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[Bug 16927] New: HTML reference was changed from W3C version to WHATWG version

2012-05-04 Thread bugzilla 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16927

   Summary: HTML reference was changed from W3C version to WHATWG
version
   Product: WebAppsWG
   Version: unspecified
  Platform: All
   URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/websockets/#references
OS/Version: All
Status: NEW
  Severity: normal
  Priority: P2
 Component: WebSocket API (editor: Ian Hickson)
AssignedTo: i...@hixie.ch
ReportedBy: julian.resc...@gmx.de
 QAContact: public-webapps-bugzi...@w3.org
CC: m...@w3.org, public-webapps@w3.org


:

[HTML]
HTML5, I. Hickson. W3C.

:

[HTML]
HTML, I. Hickson. WHATWG.

Why did this change from the CR?

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Inking out a PenObserver, was Re: GamepadObserver (ie. MutationObserver + Gamepad)

2012-05-04 Thread Charles Pritchard 
Glenn, all of your points apply well to pressure sensitive pen input. 
Pen vendors are not on the list, but their devices are quite similar.
I've changed the subject line and my responses are to your gamepad notes 
in respect to their application to pen input.


Pen input in this case is pressure sensitive input with high sensitivity 
to time, pressure and coordinates, with a sample rate faster than 60hz. 
Pen devices are commonly connected via USB.
The Gamepad API is an experimental API which deals with similar device 
characteristics. Pen vendors are not active with the W3C though the 
InkML specification did make it into recommendation status.


On 5/3/2012 9:14 PM, Glenn Maynard wrote:
Here are some piecemeal thoughts on the subject of gamepads and the 
"gamepad" spec.  I havn't closely followed earlier discussions (and 
there don't seem to have been any in a while), so much of this may 
have been covered before.


- It should be possible to tell what's changed, not just the current 
state of the device.  Needing to compare each piece of input to the 
previous state is cumbersome.


There's a variety of options that may not ever change. Some devices may 
simply not support the values. With pen, we've got items like azimuth 
and altitude. Few pens support it.
As authors, we just ignore that input or do feature tests (if pressure 
exists, and those metrics are still 0, then they're likely not supported).



- Native deadzone handling (by the OS or internally to the device) is 
the only way to correctly handle deadzones when you don't have 
intimate knowledge of the hardware.  It should be explicitly (if 
non-normatively) noted that native deadzone handling should be used 
when available.


- It's very important that it's possible to receive gamepad data 
without polling.  We don't need more web pages running setTimeout(0) 
loops as fast as browsers will let them, which is what it encourages.  
Not all pages are based on a requestAnimationFrame loop.


Recently, I found a setTimeout(20ms, then rAF) to work reasonably well 
for my little laptop.  Any faster, and I lose more data points, and 
slower and the lag [drawing to the screen] is disorienting.
That's just a subjective observation on a light-duty laptop with one 
vendor, just using a track pad.



- An API that can only return the current state loses button presses 
if they're released too quickly.  It's common to press a button while 
the UI thread is held up for one reason or another--and you also can't 
assume that users can't press and release a button in under 16ms (they 
can).


The rAF loop can in some circumstances "slow" the polling or otherwise 
result in data loss.
It's a real pain. We get our best fidelity if the screen is empty and 
we're not drawing. Once we start drawing, we're bound to lose some data.




- APIs like that also lose the *order* of button presses, when they're 
pressed too quickly.  (I've encountered this problem in my own 
experience; it's definitely possible--it's not even particularly 
hard--for a user to press two buttons in a specific order in under 16ms.)


My pen has two buttons in addition to two high sensitivity pressure 
inputs. Wacom introduced "onpressurechange" events in their Flash SDL. 
In some sense, it's an experimental plugin for WebKit as it runs in Air, 
but it's really closer to the Flash side of things.




I'd suggest a halfway point between polling and events: a function to 
retrieve a list of device changes since the last call, and an event 
fired on the object the first time a new change is made.  For example,


var gamepad = window.openGamepad(0);
gamepad.addEventListener("input", function(e) {
var changes = gamepad.readChanges();
}, false);

with changes being an array of objects, each object describing a 
timestamped change of state, eg:


changes = [
{
button: 0,
state: 1.0,
lastState: 0.85,
timestamp: 1336102719319
}
]


At what point would we consider entries to be stale? Is that something 
that should be a concern?

It'd take quite a lot of changes to be a problem.

As a security issue -- do we need to point out that two windows should 
not have concurrent access to the same gamepad (such as applies to 
keyboard and mouse)?

That's another issue I noticed with pen tablet plugins.

-Charles