Re: [gamepad] Seeking status and plans [Was: [TPAC2014] Creating focused agenda]
On 10/22/2014 8:08 AM, Arthur Barstow wrote: * Gamepad: Ted and Scott; plan and expectations to get the spec to feature complete state (aka Last Call) and implementation status. Sorry about the late response, I had a vacation in the middle of things there. The Gamepad spec currently has one major issue and a handful of minor issues that prevent it from moving forward. Unfortunately I haven't found time to fix them up, I'm planning on making time in the near future to get those cleaned up. Major issue: Need to spec liveness of Gamepad objects[1]. This was discussed on the list[2] with lots of useful feedback but without really convincing me one way or the other. However, at this point Chrome (and IE's dev preview) have implemented the snapshot behavior, so I think I'm going to write spec text to that effect and change Firefox's implementation to match. A few other minor issues[3] are filed in the tracker, several of which were filed by implementers (Microsoft, Apple) and as such represent real spec issues that need to be clarified to ensure interoperability. Some of them have straightforward answers, some do not. Implementation status: Microsoft has shipped an implementation in their IE developer preview release[4], which I believe means it should ship in IE 12. Chrome and Firefox have been shipping for some time now, and I believe Apple will ship in the near future. The implementations are mostly-compatible modulo the liveness issue discussed above (and probably a few other corner cases including some of the minor issues). Despite these incompatibilities it's quite possible to write code that works across Firefox/Chrome/IE without trouble. Microsoft's own demos work fine on Firefox and Chrome. -Ted 1. https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21434 2. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2014AprJun/0238.html 3. https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Gamepadlist_id=34439product=WebAppsWGresolution=--- 4. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/dn753843%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
[minutes] 2014-Oct-28 f2f meeting in Santa Clara, CA
The minutes from the October 27 f2f meeting are at the following and copied below: http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html If anyone wants any major corrections, please speak up. Thanks to all the Scribes: Josh, Chaals, Travis and anyone else that helped. -Thanks, AB W3C http://www.w3.org/ - DRAFT - WebApps WG F2F 28 Oct 2014 Agenda https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/November2014Meeting#Agenda_Tuesday_October_28 See also:IRC log http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-irc Attendees Present Brian_Raymor, Art_Barstow, Josh_Soref, chaals, Yves_Lafon, Ben_Peters, Xiaoqian_Wu, Adrian_Bateman, Ali_Alabbas, Mohammed, Dadas, Sam_Weinig, Hiroyuki_Aizu, Shijun_Sun, Sakari_Poussa, Alan_Iida, dom, Kenneth_Christiansen, Jonas_Sicking, Olli_Pettay, Laszlo_Gombos, Israel_Hilerio, Wooglae_Kim, Claes_Nilsson, igarashi, Anssi_Kostiainen, Jungkee_Song, Robin_Berjon, Benjamin_Poulain, Bryan_Sullivan, Dan_Appelquist, Ted_Oconnor, Joerg_Heuer, Marcos_Caceres, Mounir_Lamouri, Sam_Ruby, Stephan_Steglich, Travis_Leithead, Kevin_Hill, miterho, Mikko, Terho, Huawei, Mark_Nottingham, Larry_Masinter, Peter_Linss, Phillipe_LeHegaret, Paul_Cotton, Mike_Smith, Alex_Russel, James_Craig, Michael_Cooper, Richard_Schwerdtfeger, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Janina_Sajka, Norbert_Lindenberg Regrets Chair ArtB, chaals Scribe timeless, Travis, Travis_ Contents * Topics http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#agenda 1. Introductions http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item01 2. Agenda http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item02 3. Screen Orientation http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item03 4. Manifest http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item04 5. Permissions API http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item05 6. SysApps specifications http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item06 7. URL http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item07 8. Editing http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item08 9. Intentions http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item09 10. Editing http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item10 11. Next Meeting http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item11 * Summary of Action Items http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#ActionSummary timeless scribe: timeless ArtB ScribeNick: timeless Introductions chaals:good morning ... We'll wait until 9:30 until we start our first item ... as we traditionally do, we'll go around the room asking people to introduce themselves ... I'm chaals, from Yandex, co-chair of this group ArtB:Arthur, I work for Nokia ... i'm also one of the chairs Josh_Soref:Josh Soref, BlackBerry, Scribe, Observer spoussa:Sakari Poussa, Intel kenneth_:Kenneth Christiansen, Intel weinig:Sam Weinig, Apple dka ‘ello benjamp:Ben Peters, Microsoft sicking:Jonas Sicking, Mozilla ShijunS:Shijun Sun, Microsoft alan-i:Ali, Microsoft xiaoqian:Xiao, W3 Team Contact Yves:Yves, W3C a12u:XXX, jcdufourd jcdufourd: Jean-Claude Dufourd, Institut Mines Telecom, observer Louay Louay Bassbouss StephanSteglcih:Stephan Steglich, Fraunhofer Fokus, observer Dong-Young Dong-Young Lee (LG) youngwoojo:youngwoojo, LGE, Observer bryan bryan: Bryan Sullivan Bill Hsiung, MSTAR Semiconductor, alia s/alia: Alan/alia: Ali richt:Rich Tibbet, Opera shoko:Shoko Okuma, Tomo-Digi Corporation, Observer ZZZ AAA BBB CCC DDD:France Telecom, Obs EEE Evangelos Evangelos Vlachogiannis Fraunhofer FIT, observer FFF:Observer GGG:Observer HHH:LG Mohammed Dadas Orange GeunHyung GeunHyung Kim JJJ KKK LLL:Japan, Observer bryan s/PPP PPZ/ Bill Hsiung, MSTAR Semiconductor MMM:Oracle marcosc_:Marcos Caseras, Mozilla VVV WWW XXX Observer dom:Dominique, W3C EWQ Softbank RFE WQQ POQ LMN Xitong Huang Tencent dka Dan Appelquist: dka, @torgo; WebApps wg member; TAG Co-Chair; URL fan; #FirefoxOS fanboy; also A.C. rep for Telefónica. adrianba Adrian Bateman, Microsoft dka:Dan Appelquist adrianba:Adrian, Microsoft IQQ DQQ [ Scribe apologizes ] smaug:Olli Pettay, Mozilla lgombos:Laszlo Gombos, Samsung inserted anssik: Anssi Kostiainen, Intel inserted rubys: Sam Ruby, Apple Agenda ArtB:we were considering talking with sysapps marcosc_:let's get it out of the way ... what APIs can be salvaged from SysApps ... brought over to this group ArtB:put that in at 1pm ... look around for wonsuk ... could one of you send an email to public-sysapps mounir:marcosc_ would be glad to do that ArtB:1-1:30pm mounir:Permissions API ? ... after the break at 11am? chaals:yeah... ... anything else for the agenda? ... we could start on Screen Orientation Screen Orientation mounir:we just finished a new WD ArtBScreen Orientation ED
RE: [minutes] 2014-Oct-28 f2f meeting in Santa Clara, CA
For folks involved in the URL discussion; please review my scribed notes to make sure they are accurate--I had someone point out that I may have swapped a W3C for a WHATWG (or vice-versa) a couple of times which was accidental. Thanks! -Original Message- From: Arthur Barstow [mailto:art.bars...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 7:15 AM To: public-webapps Subject: [minutes] 2014-Oct-28 f2f meeting in Santa Clara, CA The minutes from the October 27 f2f meeting are at the following and copied below: http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html If anyone wants any major corrections, please speak up. Thanks to all the Scribes: Josh, Chaals, Travis and anyone else that helped. -Thanks, AB W3C http://www.w3.org/ - DRAFT - WebApps WG F2F 28 Oct 2014 Agenda https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/November2014Meeting#Agenda_Tuesday_October_28 See also:IRC log http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-irc Attendees Present Brian_Raymor, Art_Barstow, Josh_Soref, chaals, Yves_Lafon, Ben_Peters, Xiaoqian_Wu, Adrian_Bateman, Ali_Alabbas, Mohammed, Dadas, Sam_Weinig, Hiroyuki_Aizu, Shijun_Sun, Sakari_Poussa, Alan_Iida, dom, Kenneth_Christiansen, Jonas_Sicking, Olli_Pettay, Laszlo_Gombos, Israel_Hilerio, Wooglae_Kim, Claes_Nilsson, igarashi, Anssi_Kostiainen, Jungkee_Song, Robin_Berjon, Benjamin_Poulain, Bryan_Sullivan, Dan_Appelquist, Ted_Oconnor, Joerg_Heuer, Marcos_Caceres, Mounir_Lamouri, Sam_Ruby, Stephan_Steglich, Travis_Leithead, Kevin_Hill, miterho, Mikko, Terho, Huawei, Mark_Nottingham, Larry_Masinter, Peter_Linss, Phillipe_LeHegaret, Paul_Cotton, Mike_Smith, Alex_Russel, James_Craig, Michael_Cooper, Richard_Schwerdtfeger, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Janina_Sajka, Norbert_Lindenberg Regrets Chair ArtB, chaals Scribe timeless, Travis, Travis_ Contents * Topics http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#agenda 1. Introductions http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item01 2. Agenda http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item02 3. Screen Orientation http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item03 4. Manifest http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item04 5. Permissions API http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item05 6. SysApps specifications http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item06 7. URL http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item07 8. Editing http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item08 9. Intentions http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item09 10. Editing http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item10 11. Next Meeting http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item11 * Summary of Action Items http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#ActionSummary timeless scribe: timeless ArtB ScribeNick: timeless Introductions chaals:good morning ... We'll wait until 9:30 until we start our first item ... as we traditionally do, we'll go around the room asking people to introduce themselves ... I'm chaals, from Yandex, co-chair of this group ArtB:Arthur, I work for Nokia ... i'm also one of the chairs Josh_Soref:Josh Soref, BlackBerry, Scribe, Observer spoussa:Sakari Poussa, Intel kenneth_:Kenneth Christiansen, Intel weinig:Sam Weinig, Apple dka 'ello benjamp:Ben Peters, Microsoft sicking:Jonas Sicking, Mozilla ShijunS:Shijun Sun, Microsoft alan-i:Ali, Microsoft xiaoqian:Xiao, W3 Team Contact Yves:Yves, W3C a12u:XXX, jcdufourd jcdufourd: Jean-Claude Dufourd, Institut Mines Telecom, observer Louay Louay Bassbouss StephanSteglcih:Stephan Steglich, Fraunhofer Fokus, observer Dong-Young Dong-Young Lee (LG) youngwoojo:youngwoojo, LGE, Observer bryan bryan: Bryan Sullivan Bill Hsiung, MSTAR Semiconductor, alia s/alia: Alan/alia: Ali richt:Rich Tibbet, Opera shoko:Shoko Okuma, Tomo-Digi Corporation, Observer ZZZ AAA BBB CCC DDD:France Telecom, Obs EEE Evangelos Evangelos Vlachogiannis Fraunhofer FIT, observer FFF:Observer GGG:Observer HHH:LG Mohammed Dadas Orange GeunHyung GeunHyung Kim JJJ KKK LLL:Japan, Observer bryan s/PPP PPZ/ Bill Hsiung, MSTAR Semiconductor MMM:Oracle marcosc_:Marcos Caseras, Mozilla VVV WWW XXX Observer dom:Dominique, W3C EWQ Softbank RFE WQQ POQ LMN Xitong Huang Tencent dka Dan Appelquist: dka, @torgo; WebApps wg member; TAG Co-Chair; URL fan; #FirefoxOS fanboy; also A.C. rep for Telefónica. adrianba Adrian Bateman, Microsoft dka:Dan Appelquist adrianba:Adrian, Microsoft IQQ DQQ [ Scribe apologizes ] smaug:Olli Pettay, Mozilla lgombos:Laszlo Gombos, Samsung inserted anssik: Anssi Kostiainen, Intel inserted rubys: Sam Ruby, Apple Agenda ArtB:we were considering talking with sysapps marcosc_:let's get it out
[url] follow-ups from the TPAC F2F Meeting
Minuted here: http://www.w3.org/2014/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#item07 Note that this is a lengthy and comprehensive email covering a number of topics. I encourage replies to have new subject lines and to limit themselves to only one part and to aggressively excerpt out the parts of this email that are not relevant to the reply. --- Short term, there should be a heart-beat of the W3C URL document published ASAP. The substantive content should be identical to the current WHATWG URL Standard. The spec should say this, likely do so with a huge red tab at the bottom like the one that can be found in the following document: http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/WD-encoding-20140603/ The Status section should also reference the current Formal Objections so that any readers of this document may be aware that the final disposition of this draft may be in the form of a tombstone note. The current Formal Objections I am aware of are listed here: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/UrlStatus#Formal_Objections Finally, I would encourage the status section to mention bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25946 so that readers may be aware that the URL parsing section may be rewritten. This indirectly references the work I am about to describe, and it does so in a non-exclusive manner meaning that others are welcome to propose alternate resolutions. I am willing to help with this effort. --- Separately, at this time I would like to solicit feedback on some work I have been doing which includes a JavaScript reference implementation, a concrete albeit incomplete proposal for resolution to bug 25946, and some comparative test results with a number of browser and non-browser implementations. For the impatient, here are some links: http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/liveview.html http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/url.html http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/urltest-results/ For those that want to roll up their proverbial sleeves and dive in, check out the code here: https://github.com/rubys/url You will find a list of prerequisites that you need to install first at the top of the Makefile. Possible ways to contribute (in order of preference): pull requests, github issues, and emails to this (public-webapps@w3.org) mailing list. I've already gotten and closed one, you can be next :-). https://github.com/rubys/url/pulls?q=is%3Apr My plans include addressing the Todos listed in the document, and begin work on the merge. That work is complicated by a need to migrate the URL Standard from anolis to bikeshed. You can see progress on that effort in a separate branch, as well as the discussion that has happened to date: https://github.com/rubys/url/tree/anolis2bikeshed https://github.com/rubys/url/commit/e617fd66135bd75b1052700081de5319914168a5#commitcomment-8259740 To be clear, my proposed resolution for bug 25946 requires this conversion, but this conversion doesn't require my proposed resolution to bug 25946. I mention this as Anne seems to want this document to be converted, and that effort can be pulled separately. --- Now to get to what I personally am most interested in: identifying changes to the expected test results, and therefore to the URL specification -- independent of the approach that specification takes to describing parsing. To kick off the discussion, here are three examples: 1) http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/urltest-results/7357a04b5b A number of browsers, namely Internet Explorer, Opera(Presto), and Safari seem to be of the opinion that exposing passwords is a bad idea. I suggest that this is a defensible position, and that the specification should either standardize on this approach or at a minimum permit this. 2) http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/urltest-results/4b60e32190 This is not a valid URL syntax, nor does any browser vendor implement it. I think it is fairly safe to say that given this state that there isn't a wide corpus of existing web content that depends on it. I'd suggest that the specification be modified to adopt the behavior that Chrome, Internet Explorer, and Opera(Presto) implement. 3) http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/urltest-results/61a4a14209 This is an example of a problem that Anne is currently wrestling with. Note in particular the result produced by Chrome, which identifies the host as a IPV4 address and canonicalizes it. These are a few that caught my eye. Feel free to comment on these, or any others, or even to propose new tests. - Sam Ruby
