Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Support for audio envelopes
Jaska Uimonen jaska.uimo...@helsinki.fi writes: Hi Jaska, Hello, For some reason the company mail server is holding back the patches, doing some checking or what not... I sent the patches to the mailing list last Thursday. This happened to me once before, but I didn't remember to take it into account... Anyway if they are not appearing soon to the list, I will resend them from home. br, Jaska Could you re-send the patches, i think your company blocked them. Quoting Flavio Ceolin flavio.ceo...@profusion.mobi: Hi folks, Tanu Kaskinen ta...@iki.fi writes: Hi Tanu, On Fri, 2012-07-20 at 17:32 -0300, Flavio Ceolin wrote: Tanu Kaskinen ta...@iki.fi writes: There were problems with the code. I don't remember what exactly was broken, though. But at least I didn't like the concurrency handling: I really dislike doing inter-thread communication by using shared variables. Instead, message passing should be used, in my opinion. I'll investigate how to solve it. Btw, do you think it's better start from the scratch or it's ok start from this code ? I really don't know. I'm not familiar enough with the code to know how much of it needs rewriting. I know that Jaska Uimonen has been working with volume envelopes too, and asked him yesterday about the status. He said he will post the code to the mailing list on Monday. I haven't seen the code, but if it's good, then it might be a good starting point too (Jaska said that it's lacking multichannel support, so work will be needed). It's really good to heard it. 2) How an application should use this code, AFAIK this code is not being exported. What's your use case? If we are talking about sink volume ramping, I don't see the need for a client interface at all, because it should be done automatically by the server. Basically I want to set an envelope which apply a filter changing the sound balance and/or the volume, it's easier demonstrating an idea of an envelope: But what's the use case (user-visible feature) that you're interested in? My answer to the how an application should use this code depends on the use case. I want make possible an application associate an action with an audio effect. For example, a dialog pops up and you want to keep that sample pattern playing but you want to fade it out so its really quiet. So over 2 seconds you fade it out. Another example would be you shift balance to the left or right according with the mobile phone (or whatever you want) position. Regards, Flavio Ceolin Trying to continue this matter, the idea of make this funcionality so generic is facilitating for other applications. I believe several applications (like media players) that use PA are implementing it's own basic effects as crossfading or fade-in/out for pause. I think make it easier is a goal. Other benefit of supporting it, is make possible the ducking[1] effect on audio streams, as we've discussed on irc, a good example for this is the sms case (when a sms comes the others samples should fade-out). Another point to have it is the sample cache. If the sample is already in the cache and the application should do fade-in/out or change the balance, the only way to do that is re-uploading the sample. So guys, what you think about, it worth to implement ? If not, what you think should be changed ? I'm open to discuss it. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducking Regards, Flavio Ceolin ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss Regards, Flavio Ceolin ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Support for audio envelopes
Hello, For some reason the company mail server is holding back the patches, doing some checking or what not... I sent the patches to the mailing list last Thursday. This happened to me once before, but I didn't remember to take it into account... Anyway if they are not appearing soon to the list, I will resend them from home. br, Jaska Quoting Flavio Ceolin flavio.ceo...@profusion.mobi: Hi folks, Tanu Kaskinen ta...@iki.fi writes: Hi Tanu, On Fri, 2012-07-20 at 17:32 -0300, Flavio Ceolin wrote: Tanu Kaskinen ta...@iki.fi writes: There were problems with the code. I don't remember what exactly was broken, though. But at least I didn't like the concurrency handling: I really dislike doing inter-thread communication by using shared variables. Instead, message passing should be used, in my opinion. I'll investigate how to solve it. Btw, do you think it's better start from the scratch or it's ok start from this code ? I really don't know. I'm not familiar enough with the code to know how much of it needs rewriting. I know that Jaska Uimonen has been working with volume envelopes too, and asked him yesterday about the status. He said he will post the code to the mailing list on Monday. I haven't seen the code, but if it's good, then it might be a good starting point too (Jaska said that it's lacking multichannel support, so work will be needed). It's really good to heard it. 2) How an application should use this code, AFAIK this code is not being exported. What's your use case? If we are talking about sink volume ramping, I don't see the need for a client interface at all, because it should be done automatically by the server. Basically I want to set an envelope which apply a filter changing the sound balance and/or the volume, it's easier demonstrating an idea of an envelope: But what's the use case (user-visible feature) that you're interested in? My answer to the how an application should use this code depends on the use case. I want make possible an application associate an action with an audio effect. For example, a dialog pops up and you want to keep that sample pattern playing but you want to fade it out so its really quiet. So over 2 seconds you fade it out. Another example would be you shift balance to the left or right according with the mobile phone (or whatever you want) position. Regards, Flavio Ceolin Trying to continue this matter, the idea of make this funcionality so generic is facilitating for other applications. I believe several applications (like media players) that use PA are implementing it's own basic effects as crossfading or fade-in/out for pause. I think make it easier is a goal. Other benefit of supporting it, is make possible the ducking[1] effect on audio streams, as we've discussed on irc, a good example for this is the sms case (when a sms comes the others samples should fade-out). Another point to have it is the sample cache. If the sample is already in the cache and the application should do fade-in/out or change the balance, the only way to do that is re-uploading the sample. So guys, what you think about, it worth to implement ? If not, what you think should be changed ? I'm open to discuss it. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducking Regards, Flavio Ceolin ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Support for audio envelopes
Jaska Uimonen jaska.uimo...@helsinki.fi writes: Hi Jaska, Hello, For some reason the company mail server is holding back the patches, doing some checking or what not... I sent the patches to the mailing list last Thursday. This happened to me once before, but I didn't remember to take it into account... Anyway if they are not appearing soon to the list, I will resend them from home. br, Jaska Thanks for update me, i'm waiting your patch so. Regards, Flavio Ceolin Quoting Flavio Ceolin flavio.ceo...@profusion.mobi: Hi folks, Tanu Kaskinen ta...@iki.fi writes: Hi Tanu, On Fri, 2012-07-20 at 17:32 -0300, Flavio Ceolin wrote: Tanu Kaskinen ta...@iki.fi writes: There were problems with the code. I don't remember what exactly was broken, though. But at least I didn't like the concurrency handling: I really dislike doing inter-thread communication by using shared variables. Instead, message passing should be used, in my opinion. I'll investigate how to solve it. Btw, do you think it's better start from the scratch or it's ok start from this code ? I really don't know. I'm not familiar enough with the code to know how much of it needs rewriting. I know that Jaska Uimonen has been working with volume envelopes too, and asked him yesterday about the status. He said he will post the code to the mailing list on Monday. I haven't seen the code, but if it's good, then it might be a good starting point too (Jaska said that it's lacking multichannel support, so work will be needed). It's really good to heard it. 2) How an application should use this code, AFAIK this code is not being exported. What's your use case? If we are talking about sink volume ramping, I don't see the need for a client interface at all, because it should be done automatically by the server. Basically I want to set an envelope which apply a filter changing the sound balance and/or the volume, it's easier demonstrating an idea of an envelope: But what's the use case (user-visible feature) that you're interested in? My answer to the how an application should use this code depends on the use case. I want make possible an application associate an action with an audio effect. For example, a dialog pops up and you want to keep that sample pattern playing but you want to fade it out so its really quiet. So over 2 seconds you fade it out. Another example would be you shift balance to the left or right according with the mobile phone (or whatever you want) position. Regards, Flavio Ceolin Trying to continue this matter, the idea of make this funcionality so generic is facilitating for other applications. I believe several applications (like media players) that use PA are implementing it's own basic effects as crossfading or fade-in/out for pause. I think make it easier is a goal. Other benefit of supporting it, is make possible the ducking[1] effect on audio streams, as we've discussed on irc, a good example for this is the sms case (when a sms comes the others samples should fade-out). Another point to have it is the sample cache. If the sample is already in the cache and the application should do fade-in/out or change the balance, the only way to do that is re-uploading the sample. So guys, what you think about, it worth to implement ? If not, what you think should be changed ? I'm open to discuss it. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducking Regards, Flavio Ceolin ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Support for audio envelopes
Hi folks, Tanu Kaskinen ta...@iki.fi writes: Hi Tanu, On Fri, 2012-07-20 at 17:32 -0300, Flavio Ceolin wrote: Tanu Kaskinen ta...@iki.fi writes: There were problems with the code. I don't remember what exactly was broken, though. But at least I didn't like the concurrency handling: I really dislike doing inter-thread communication by using shared variables. Instead, message passing should be used, in my opinion. I'll investigate how to solve it. Btw, do you think it's better start from the scratch or it's ok start from this code ? I really don't know. I'm not familiar enough with the code to know how much of it needs rewriting. I know that Jaska Uimonen has been working with volume envelopes too, and asked him yesterday about the status. He said he will post the code to the mailing list on Monday. I haven't seen the code, but if it's good, then it might be a good starting point too (Jaska said that it's lacking multichannel support, so work will be needed). It's really good to heard it. 2) How an application should use this code, AFAIK this code is not being exported. What's your use case? If we are talking about sink volume ramping, I don't see the need for a client interface at all, because it should be done automatically by the server. Basically I want to set an envelope which apply a filter changing the sound balance and/or the volume, it's easier demonstrating an idea of an envelope: But what's the use case (user-visible feature) that you're interested in? My answer to the how an application should use this code depends on the use case. I want make possible an application associate an action with an audio effect. For example, a dialog pops up and you want to keep that sample pattern playing but you want to fade it out so its really quiet. So over 2 seconds you fade it out. Another example would be you shift balance to the left or right according with the mobile phone (or whatever you want) position. Regards, Flavio Ceolin Trying to continue this matter, the idea of make this funcionality so generic is facilitating for other applications. I believe several applications (like media players) that use PA are implementing it's own basic effects as crossfading or fade-in/out for pause. I think make it easier is a goal. Other benefit of supporting it, is make possible the ducking[1] effect on audio streams, as we've discussed on irc, a good example for this is the sms case (when a sms comes the others samples should fade-out). Another point to have it is the sample cache. If the sample is already in the cache and the application should do fade-in/out or change the balance, the only way to do that is re-uploading the sample. So guys, what you think about, it worth to implement ? If not, what you think should be changed ? I'm open to discuss it. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducking Regards, Flavio Ceolin ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Support for audio envelopes
On Fri, 2012-07-20 at 17:32 -0300, Flavio Ceolin wrote: Tanu Kaskinen ta...@iki.fi writes: There were problems with the code. I don't remember what exactly was broken, though. But at least I didn't like the concurrency handling: I really dislike doing inter-thread communication by using shared variables. Instead, message passing should be used, in my opinion. I'll investigate how to solve it. Btw, do you think it's better start from the scratch or it's ok start from this code ? I really don't know. I'm not familiar enough with the code to know how much of it needs rewriting. I know that Jaska Uimonen has been working with volume envelopes too, and asked him yesterday about the status. He said he will post the code to the mailing list on Monday. I haven't seen the code, but if it's good, then it might be a good starting point too (Jaska said that it's lacking multichannel support, so work will be needed). 2) How an application should use this code, AFAIK this code is not being exported. What's your use case? If we are talking about sink volume ramping, I don't see the need for a client interface at all, because it should be done automatically by the server. Basically I want to set an envelope which apply a filter changing the sound balance and/or the volume, it's easier demonstrating an idea of an envelope: But what's the use case (user-visible feature) that you're interested in? My answer to the how an application should use this code depends on the use case. -- Tanu ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Support for audio envelopes
On Thu, 2012-07-19 at 14:35 -0300, Flavio Ceolin wrote: Hi floks, I'm trying to implement support for audio envelopes on pulse audio and several doubts come to me. First i've checked that we already had support for it, but it was removed. So my first doubt is, there were problems with this code or it was removed just because no one was using ? There were problems with the code. I don't remember what exactly was broken, though. But at least I didn't like the concurrency handling: I really dislike doing inter-thread communication by using shared variables. Instead, message passing should be used, in my opinion. For purpose tests, i've re-applied the old code (doing just the necessary things to compile). So far so good, it was pretty easy. Now i've other questions: 1) Should evenlopes be applied in source too, or just in the sink ? Probably also in sources, but I think you don't need to care about sources at this point. Once it's done for sinks, then we can copy it to sources. 2) How an application should use this code, AFAIK this code is not being exported. What's your use case? If we are talking about sink volume ramping, I don't see the need for a client interface at all, because it should be done automatically by the server. Besides these points, i would enjoy any kind of tip/idea related with this subject. You'll need to keep rewinds in mind. That is, if a rewind affects the envelope, you need to update the envelope state accordingly. -- Tanu ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Support for audio envelopes
Tanu Kaskinen ta...@iki.fi writes:
Hi Tanu,
First of all, thanks for the answer.
On Thu, 2012-07-19 at 14:35 -0300, Flavio Ceolin wrote:
Hi floks,
I'm trying to implement support for audio envelopes on pulse audio and
several doubts come to me. First i've checked that we already had
support for it, but it was removed. So my first doubt is, there were
problems with this code or it was removed just because no one was using ?
There were problems with the code. I don't remember what exactly was
broken, though. But at least I didn't like the concurrency handling: I
really dislike doing inter-thread communication by using shared
variables. Instead, message passing should be used, in my opinion.
I'll investigate how to solve it. Btw, do you think it's better start
from the scratch or it's ok start from this code ?
For purpose tests, i've re-applied the old code (doing just the necessary
things to compile). So far so good, it was pretty easy. Now i've other
questions:
1) Should evenlopes be applied in source too, or just in the sink ?
Probably also in sources, but I think you don't need to care about
sources at this point. Once it's done for sinks, then we can copy it to
sources.
Ok, I agree with you.
2) How an application should use this code, AFAIK this code is not being
exported.
What's your use case? If we are talking about sink volume ramping, I
don't see the need for a client interface at all, because it should be
done automatically by the server.
Basically I want to set an envelope which apply a filter changing the
sound balance and/or the volume, it's easier demonstrating an idea of an
envelope:
envelope {
gain: 1.0; /* gain or volume - total multiplier of envelope 1.0
(full volume) */
type: LINEAR;/* or any ohter algorithm, for example SPLINE */
/* point = x (time) y (balance) */
/* if stereo position values ate 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.5 == center, 0.0 ==
left, 1.0 == right */
point: 0 0.50; // middle
point: 4 0.70; // right-ish
point: 8 0.30; // left-ish
point: 12 0.60; // a little right
point: 16 0.40; // a little left
point: 20 0.55; // very little right
point: 24 0.45; // very little left
point: 28 0.50; // back to middle
}
Besides these points, i would enjoy any kind of tip/idea related with
this subject.
You'll need to keep rewinds in mind. That is, if a rewind affects the
envelope, you need to update the envelope state accordingly.
I'll keep it in mind.
Regards,
Flavio Ceolin
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