Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Pulseaudio as a systemwide deamon and as the default ALSA plugin doesn't seem to work right.... ?

2007-11-16 Thread Kevin Williams
On November 16, 2007 07:59:35 pm Nix wrote:
> Well it works for me without any of the problems you've mentioned.
>
> Which apps are you seeing this behaviour with? How are they talking to
> the sound system? (ALSA, OSS, native PulseAudio...)


Well, the way I've setup is launch pulseaudio as the systemwide daemon with 
alsa-sink module while ALSA is configured  to use pulseaudio as the default 
driver. 

I have left all the multimedia apps at their default audio setup which happens 
to be auto for most while, I've setup the others to use alsa as the default 
audio driver.

For eg. xine and all the apps using the xine engine use the "auto" setup for 
audio while, I've setup mplayer and avidemux to use alsa.

The above setup works perfectly well, if I stop using pulseaudio and leaving 
alsa as the only audio server. With pulseaudio as the system daemon the 
earlier mentioned problmes start to appear. Almost all the apps complain 
about the audio device being not available.  Amarok also, complains the same 
but, at times it doesn't and there's no sound output though, I can see that 
the file is being played.

I've just setup pulseaudio to launch as per user instance and quite 
surprisingly (or may be not ?), all the apps are working just perfect ! :-)

I guess, the problem lies with pulseaudio running as the system daemon !?

Anyways, thank everyone for your help, I really appreciate it.

Kevin



> On 15 Nov 2007, Kevin Williams uttered the following:
> > On November 15, 2007 05:46:49 am Colin Guthrie wrote:
> >> I'm not 100% sure but with 0.9.7 pa I don't think there are many reasons
> >> to run PA system wide any more. User switching is supported so that
> >> switching from one user to another work pretty well (tho' I have to
> >> admit I've not personally tested this!)
> >
> > Does that mean, a systemwide instance is not recommended and wouldn't
> > work as expected, likely to cause problems ?
>
> Well it works for me without any of the problems you've mentioned.
>
> Which apps are you seeing this behaviour with? How are they talking to
> the sound system? (ALSA, OSS, native PulseAudio...)


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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Pulseaudio as a systemwide deamon and as the default ALSA plugin doesn't seem to work right.... ?

2007-11-16 Thread Nix
On 15 Nov 2007, Kevin Williams uttered the following:

> On November 15, 2007 05:46:49 am Colin Guthrie wrote:
>> I'm not 100% sure but with 0.9.7 pa I don't think there are many reasons
>> to run PA system wide any more. User switching is supported so that
>> switching from one user to another work pretty well (tho' I have to
>> admit I've not personally tested this!)
>
> Does that mean, a systemwide instance is not recommended and wouldn't work as 
> expected, likely to cause problems ?

Well it works for me without any of the problems you've mentioned.

Which apps are you seeing this behaviour with? How are they talking to
the sound system? (ALSA, OSS, native PulseAudio...)

-- 
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such people shouldn't be allowed to program.' --- Linus Torvalds
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] pulse gui

2007-11-16 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 14.11.07 22:19, Esteban Salazar ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> Hi, I have been trying to get pulse audio working on gutsy and have had some
> trouble, mainly I think because I'm confused by the gui.
> 
> What about something like the attached image?  Instead of having to go to a
> stream mixing dialog you can just right click on the apps and reroute audio
> right there.  The menu options could even appear and disappear depending on
> if their are any input or output streams.

In fact something like this has been on my TODO list. For that to work
we however need to attach more meta information to each stream (like
X11 window id, or PID), which is on my TODO list however.

> Then the preferences could be just:
> 
> Server Name [ ]
> Allow other computers to browse? [x]
> Require Password? [x]
>Set Password []
> Default output device [ ]
> Default input device [ ]

Have you seen the paprefs 0.9.6? It makes configuration of remote
audio devices exceptionally easy if you have zeroconf: click on one
checkbox and open the local devices for the network. Click on a second
one to make all devices that are available on the LAN available
locally. i.e. you don't even have to specify a server name or
suchlike. However right now there is no way to to configure passwords
or something like that. I am not happy with the state of the whole
authentication business in PA right now. But when I rework this I will
probably move to something like TLS, which however is a non-trivial
amount of work. And I am probably not going for passwords. 

paprefs 0.9.6 and zeroconf is demoed here:

 http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/pa-097.html

> For authentication when trying to play to a remote device, just prompt the
> user when they try and check the output box

This is more problematic than it might sound at first. I am not sure
how to best implment the whole auth stuff. but see above.

Lennart

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[pulseaudio-discuss] Mixing streams

2007-11-16 Thread Dennis Fleming
I have noticed that in pa_mix streams are clipped when they exceed the
threshold.  Has there been any discussion on normalizing the output
rather than clipping?  Or am I looking in the wrong place.

 

Dennis

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Mixing streams

2007-11-16 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 14.11.07 09:56, Dennis Fleming ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

Hi!

> I have noticed that in pa_mix streams are clipped when they exceed the
> threshold.  Has there been any discussion on normalizing the output
> rather than clipping?  Or am I looking in the wrong place.

It might indeed make sense to apply some kind of normalization based
on dynamic range compression when mixing audio.

The TAP LADSPA plugins contain a supposedly very good limiter. It
might make sense to steal that code (license permitting) and use it in
the PA mixer -- if it doesn't add extra latency.

Patches welcome!

Lennart

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Pulseaudio as a systemwide deamon and as the default ALSA plugin doesn't seem to work right.... ?

2007-11-16 Thread Colin Guthrie
Kevin Williams wrote:
> I have installed pulseaudio from the cvs repo and have configure the PA 
> daemon 
> to run as a system wide instance. To ensure all the apps work without needing 
> to configure each of them individually, I have set the pulseaudio as the 
> default ALSA plugin in /etc/asound.conf following the guide "Perfect Setup". 

I'm not 100% sure but with 0.9.7 pa I don't think there are many reasons
to run PA system wide any more. User switching is supported so that
switching from one user to another work pretty well (tho' I have to
admit I've not personally tested this!)

> PA lauches without any problems. But, the problem shows up when I launch any 
> of the multimedia apps. Sometimes, I see a message which says "Audio device 
> not available. May be it is in use by another application". I'm pretty sure, 
> there're no other apps at that same time yet, I receive those messages, don't 
> know why !??

Are the users in the relevant group for accessing pulse? IIRC the
default is "pulse-access"

Col

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Pulseaudio as a systemwide deamon and as the default ALSA plugin doesn't seem to work right.... ?

2007-11-16 Thread Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò
Kevin Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>  Sometimes, I see a message which says "Audio device not
> available. May be it is in use by another application". I'm pretty
> sure, there're no other apps at that same time yet, I receive those
> messages, don't know why !??

This sounds like a message coming from xine, or at least it is quite
similar from the xine message expressing the same problem. If this is
the case, make sure that you're not using hw:0 as device in the xine
configuration; ideally you should be using the PulseAudio output
directly (although I know already that the version shipped with 1.1
isn't all that good, nor is 1.2 version perfect; I'm working on it).

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò
http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/


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[pulseaudio-discuss] pulse gui

2007-11-16 Thread Esteban Salazar
So I watched the video.   I guess what I find confusing is this notion of
"Moving" streams.  I think a lot could be resolved instead by getting rid of
the notion of moving streams and instead conceptually have streams exist
always and independent (similar to now) but instead of moving streams you
just specify which outputs they are conneced to.

So, if I want to direct a stream to my three outputs (o1,o2,o3), I can just
specify in the gui by checking those three boxes.  This really simplifies
things because some of the more confusing concepts in pulse just go away.
For example, you don't need virtual devices anymore (you might keep them
around as a convenient shorthand for saying hook up these a,b,c devices to
this stream but you don't need them anymore and only advanced users would
care about the shortcut).  Also the confusion with multicast streams and
looping back to speakers goes away.  You just treat multicast output as
another output device and if you also want audio to come out of your local
speakers, you just also leave your local speakers checked.

I think the current gui actually has a bug because you are using check boxes
instead of radio boxes for moving streams but in the change I'm talking
about, that would actually be what you want except that you could check
multiple boxes at once.

So on a stream when I right clicked, instead of seeing "Move stream", I
would see "Set stream output devices" and I could do something like this:

[ x ] Speakers
[] Headphones
[ x ] Audio broadcast (Multicast Stream)
[ x ] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Somewhere you could specify the list of what outputs are enabled by default.

My idea in the image I send was just in recognition of that fact that many
gui apps are associated with a single stream so it makes sense to also
expose this exact dialog in the window menu so you can direct the output of
that app direct from the app instead of having to open and extra pulse
dialogs.

Anyway, this just seems more intuitive to me and eliminates a few existing
dialogs and concepts so simpler seems better to me.  Also, it allows you to
implement access to all the important access people would want 99% of the
time right in the application window menu which is also simpler and more
intuitive.

Having things associated with the window manager is also cool because just
like remembering window locations and dimensions when a program is launched,
the window manager (or whatever) could remember audio settings from previous
launches so you wouldn't really have to ever set this stuff up except when
you wanted to change it which for most streams you never would.  For
example, once I specify that I want all my desktop sounds only to go to the
local speakers, I'm never going to change that, same thing with directing my
audio player outputs to my living room stereo.

Also, the concept of multicast streams is very confusing.  Right now if the
gui for this stuff is confusing and I have only gotten network play to work
by pure trial and error.  Most of that is simply not needed if you rearrange
things like I suggesting except for playing someone else's stream locally.
For that a person probably would need to go to a dedicated stream manager or
something but that could be done from the existing stream/output/input
dialogs or there could be a pulse audio "player" that does only that.  Then
you don't need the stream/output/input tool at all.

Again, just my 2c.

Thanks and good luck with this great project.
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Pulseaudio as a systemwide deamon and as the default ALSA plugin doesn't seem to work right.... ?

2007-11-16 Thread Kevin Williams
On November 15, 2007 05:46:49 am Colin Guthrie wrote:
> I'm not 100% sure but with 0.9.7 pa I don't think there are many reasons
> to run PA system wide any more. User switching is supported so that
> switching from one user to another work pretty well (tho' I have to
> admit I've not personally tested this!)

Does that mean, a systemwide instance is not recommended and wouldn't work as 
expected, likely to cause problems ?

> Are the users in the relevant group for accessing pulse? IIRC the
> default is "pulse-access"

Yes, the user is a member of the pulse-access group.

Thanks for the reply.

Kevin

> Kevin Williams wrote:
> > I have installed pulseaudio from the cvs repo and have configure the PA
> > daemon to run as a system wide instance. To ensure all the apps work
> > without needing to configure each of them individually, I have set the
> > pulseaudio as the default ALSA plugin in /etc/asound.conf following the
> > guide "Perfect Setup".
>
> I'm not 100% sure but with 0.9.7 pa I don't think there are many reasons
> to run PA system wide any more. User switching is supported so that
> switching from one user to another work pretty well (tho' I have to
> admit I've not personally tested this!)
>
> > PA lauches without any problems. But, the problem shows up when I launch
> > any of the multimedia apps. Sometimes, I see a message which says "Audio
> > device not available. May be it is in use by another application". I'm
> > pretty sure, there're no other apps at that same time yet, I receive
> > those messages, don't know why !??
>
> Are the users in the relevant group for accessing pulse? IIRC the
> default is "pulse-access"
>
> Col
>
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Mixing streams

2007-11-16 Thread Tanu Kaskinen
On Wed, Nov 14, 2007 at 09:56:19AM -0800, Dennis Fleming wrote:
> I have noticed that in pa_mix streams are clipped when they exceed the
> threshold.  Has there been any discussion on normalizing the output
> rather than clipping?  Or am I looking in the wrong place.

If I understood correctly, you would like PA to lower the
volume whenever the sample values get too high while mixing.
Should it then raise the volume back to original level after
there has been quieter signal for a few seconds or something
like that? I'd say that automatically turning the volume up
and down isn't the solution. I might accept automatic
"normalizing", if the volume stays down after there's been
need to lower it. But that's not much better than just
adjusting the stream volumes "manually" so that they don't
clip in the first place.

I put "manually" inside quotation marks, because the volumes
can be adjusted automatically to a predefined level using
module-match. I use it to set the default volume of all
streams to about 50%. Maybe 50% could be the default,
because at 100% clipping is quite probable with multiple
streams.

-- 
Tanu


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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Pulseaudio as a systemwide deamon and as the default ALSA plugin doesn't seem to work right.... ?

2007-11-16 Thread Kevin Williams
On November 15, 2007 06:17:07 am Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> This sounds like a message coming from xine, or at least it is quite
> similar from the xine message expressing the same problem. If this is
> the case, make sure that you're not using hw:0 as device in the xine
> configuration; ideally you should be using the PulseAudio output
> directly (although I know already that the version shipped with 1.1
> isn't all that good, nor is 1.2 version perfect; I'm working on it).

I do get similar messages from the audio apps like mplayer, avidemux, rezound 
etc. Repeatedly clicking on the play button (which triggers the same message 
box every time the play/next/previous button is pressed) a few times makes it 
work. Sometimes, relaunching the app is the only way to get it working.

As far as xine configuration is concerned, I've configured "auto" for both 
audio and video and "default" for audio device. I've also tried specifying 
alsa and pulseaudio plugin as the output but, to no avail. I get the similar 
messages about the audio device not being available.

FYI, I've compiled KDE-3.5.8 with "--without--arts" since, I didn't want 
multiple audio servers piggy back riding each other ! The apps work fine 
otherwise when I'm not using pulseaudio thus, using the alsa drivers 
directly.

Thanks for the reply.

Kevin

> Kevin Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >  Sometimes, I see a message which says "Audio device not
> > available. May be it is in use by another application". I'm pretty
> > sure, there're no other apps at that same time yet, I receive those
> > messages, don't know why !??
>
> This sounds like a message coming from xine, or at least it is quite
> similar from the xine message expressing the same problem. If this is
> the case, make sure that you're not using hw:0 as device in the xine
> configuration; ideally you should be using the PulseAudio output
> directly (although I know already that the version shipped with 1.1
> isn't all that good, nor is 1.2 version perfect; I'm working on it).


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[pulseaudio-discuss] Problem with 0.9.7 and Audacious

2007-11-16 Thread Hasse Hagen Johansen
Hi

I have stuttering(short pauses about every second) sound when using
audacious with its pulseaudio plugin. I have tried to set the buffer
size in audacious up, but it didn't make a difference. I have looked
at the source package for the audacious-plugins(on ubuntu 7.10). And I
cannot find so much difference between the xmms-pulse 0.9.7 and the
one in my source package(I only seem to don't have the ifdef's for
Beep media player. And the about plugin thing that the players can
display..license etc.)

XMMS can play without stuttering and I can use audacious with the
alsa-pulse plugin without stuttering also.

Any suggestions about what could the cause of this stuttering? I think
it is a little strange as the xmms-pulse and audacious-pulse plugin is
nearly identically

Regards
Hasse H. Johansen
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Mixing streams

2007-11-16 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Thu, 15.11.07 14:55, Tanu Kaskinen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 14, 2007 at 09:56:19AM -0800, Dennis Fleming wrote:
> > I have noticed that in pa_mix streams are clipped when they exceed the
> > threshold.  Has there been any discussion on normalizing the output
> > rather than clipping?  Or am I looking in the wrong place.
> 
> If I understood correctly, you would like PA to lower the
> volume whenever the sample values get too high while mixing.
> Should it then raise the volume back to original level after
> there has been quieter signal for a few seconds or something
> like that? I'd say that automatically turning the volume up
> and down isn't the solution. I might accept automatic
> "normalizing", if the volume stays down after there's been
> need to lower it. But that's not much better than just
> adjusting the stream volumes "manually" so that they don't
> clip in the first place.

I think normalizing a mixed stream is perfectly ligitimate. Don't
forget that normalization through DRC would only take effect when
otherwise we'd clip. So the option you have is not DRC vs non-DRC. But
it is clipping vs. DRC. And in this case DRC is certainly the smaller
evil.

> I put "manually" inside quotation marks, because the volumes
> can be adjusted automatically to a predefined level using
> module-match. I use it to set the default volume of all
> streams to about 50%. Maybe 50% could be the default,
> because at 100% clipping is quite probable with multiple
> streams.

Uh. That way you practically decrease the bit depth of your audio
output to 15 bit. (Unless you happen to have a 24 bit soundcard) Not
a very good idea for most people.

Lennart

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Mixing streams

2007-11-16 Thread Tanu Kaskinen
On Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 02:56:47PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> I think normalizing a mixed stream is perfectly ligitimate. Don't
> forget that normalization through DRC would only take effect when
> otherwise we'd clip. So the option you have is not DRC vs non-DRC. But
> it is clipping vs. DRC. And in this case DRC is certainly the smaller
> evil.

I wasn't considering DRC in my answer, and I'm not strictly
against it. I hope that it will be optional, though (and
judging from other features, I believe it would be optional
even if no-one didn't specifically ask for it).

Personally, if the sound is clipping, I'd like to know it's
clipping instead of the sound system pretending everything's
ok, and then increase the headroom (lower the stream
volumes, that is). I believe I'm in the minority with this
wish.

> Uh. That way you practically decrease the bit depth of your audio
> output to 15 bit. (Unless you happen to have a 24 bit soundcard) Not
> a very good idea for most people.

I haven't compared 15 bit signal to 16 bit. I have a
24-bit-only sound card and don't feel like setting up any
elaborate listening tests, so I'll take your word that
there's a perceivable difference.

-- 
Tanu Kaskinen


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[pulseaudio-discuss] Pulseaudio as a systemwide deamon and as the default ALSA plugin doesn't seem to work right.... ?

2007-11-16 Thread Kevin Williams
I have installed pulseaudio from the cvs repo and have configure the PA daemon 
to run as a system wide instance. To ensure all the apps work without needing 
to configure each of them individually, I have set the pulseaudio as the 
default ALSA plugin in /etc/asound.conf following the guide "Perfect Setup". 

PA lauches without any problems. But, the problem shows up when I launch any 
of the multimedia apps. Sometimes, I see a message which says "Audio device 
not available. May be it is in use by another application". I'm pretty sure, 
there're no other apps at that same time yet, I receive those messages, don't 
know why !??

The message box reapppears a bunch of times and each time I click OK to 
dismiss it. After that, the app starts working happily. Again, when it comes 
to changing media (track or CD), sometimes the annoying message box is 
displayed again. This time though, it is less likely to work. The only way to 
get it working is to terminate the app and relaunch it.

Amarok, also displays the same message a bunch of times repeatedly and starts 
working for a while. After a while, it just stops and doesn't respond. The 
same this happens when, I hit the Next or Previous button. Sometimes, amarok 
starts playing, but there's no sound output !! Only way out is to kill the 
app and relaunch... !

Any help in thie regard will be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

Kevin
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Problem with 0.9.7 and Audacious

2007-11-16 Thread Hasse Hagen Johansen
> "Thomas" == Thomas Jost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Thomas> Hi, I have the same kind of problem with mplayer (svn
Thomas> version) and its pulseaudio output : shorts pauses about
Thomas> every seconds, which makes it impossible to watch
Thomas> anything.

Thomas> I noticed that if I don't load module-x11-publish (or if I
Thomas> run "pax11publish -r"), things work nicely. And if I then
Thomas> run "pax11publish -e" it starts not working again.  In the
Thomas> same time everything works perfectly with xine and mpd,
Thomas> without having to disable module-x11-publish or anything
Thomas> else.

Thomas> This problem first appeared when I upgraded from PA 0.9.6
Thomas> to 0.9.7, without any modification of mplayer. I tried to
Thomas> recompile it since then, but it didn't change anything. It
Thomas> happens on my AMD64 Gentoo laptop as well as on my i686
Thomas> Archlinux workstation.

Thomas> Any suggestion? Is it a known bug? (I didn't find any
Thomas> corresponding ticket on the website).

Thomas> Regards, Thomas

Ahh..I think I read about that somewhere. That when using the
esd-wrapper with gnome(maybe not specifically gnome) that you should
disable the module-x11-publish module, because it was working in that
configuration..I think it actually was in some of the announcements
for 0.9.7

Thanks for getting me to remember it :-) I will try it right away

Regards
Hasse
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Problem with 0.9.7 and Audacious

2007-11-16 Thread Thomas Jost
Hi,

I have the same kind of problem with mplayer (svn version) and its
pulseaudio output : shorts pauses about every seconds, which makes it
impossible to watch anything.

I noticed that if I don't load module-x11-publish (or if I run
"pax11publish -r"), things work nicely. And if I then run "pax11publish -e"
it starts not working again.
In the same time everything works perfectly with xine and mpd, without
having to disable module-x11-publish or anything else.

This problem first appeared when I upgraded from PA 0.9.6 to 0.9.7, without
any modification of mplayer. I tried to recompile it since then, but it
didn't change anything. It happens on my AMD64 Gentoo laptop as well as on
my i686 Archlinux workstation.

Any suggestion? Is it a known bug? (I didn't find any corresponding ticket
on the website).

Regards,
Thomas

Le 16 novembre 07 à 17:05:23, Hasse Hagen Johansen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :

> Hi
> 
> I have stuttering(short pauses about every second) sound when using
> audacious with its pulseaudio plugin. I have tried to set the buffer
> size in audacious up, but it didn't make a difference. I have looked
> at the source package for the audacious-plugins(on ubuntu 7.10). And I
> cannot find so much difference between the xmms-pulse 0.9.7 and the
> one in my source package(I only seem to don't have the ifdef's for
> Beep media player. And the about plugin thing that the players can
> display..license etc.)
> 
> XMMS can play without stuttering and I can use audacious with the
> alsa-pulse plugin without stuttering also.
> 
> Any suggestions about what could the cause of this stuttering? I think
> it is a little strange as the xmms-pulse and audacious-pulse plugin is
> nearly identically
> 
> Regards
> Hasse H. Johansen
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Problem with 0.9.7 and Audacious

2007-11-16 Thread Hasse Hagen Johansen
> "Thomas" == Thomas Jost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Thomas> Hi, I have the same kind of problem with mplayer (svn
Thomas> version) and its pulseaudio output : shorts pauses about
Thomas> every seconds, which makes it impossible to watch
Thomas> anything.

Thomas> I noticed that if I don't load module-x11-publish (or if I
Thomas> run "pax11publish -r"), things work nicely. And if I then
Thomas> run "pax11publish -e" it starts not working again.  In the
Thomas> same time everything works perfectly with xine and mpd,
Thomas> without having to disable module-x11-publish or anything
Thomas> else.

Thomas> This problem first appeared when I upgraded from PA 0.9.6
Thomas> to 0.9.7, without any modification of mplayer. I tried to
Thomas> recompile it since then, but it didn't change anything. It
Thomas> happens on my AMD64 Gentoo laptop as well as on my i686
Thomas> Archlinux workstation.

Ok. Now I have just tried pax11publish -r and also unloading
module-x11-publish with pacmd, but it didn't help. I don't have the
problem with mplayer at the moment, but earlier today when I was
trying different things...trying to use the xmms pulse plugin with
audacious made audacious just close and after that my mplayer didn't
work properly too, but that disappeared after I had the computer
shutdown, and mplayer is working fine right now

But until further no luck with audacious with it's pulse plugin(alsa
output to the pulse alsalib plugin works)

Regards
Hasse
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