Re: [Puppet Users] Best practice for Node Def files

[Jeff McCune]

On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:36 PM, llowder  wrote:

> If using the nodes/*.pp and having your site.pp be "import 'nodes/*'",
>

You should avoid using the import statement (see
http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/12929).  Instead, follow the [module
conventions](docs.puppetlabs.com/guides/modules.html)


> what is the best practice? Is it better to have one node def per file, or
> group the node defs by class (ie, all app servers in one file or all web
> servers in one file) or some other layout?
>

Best practice is to use an external node classifier or place all of your
node declarations into one site.pp file.  One file is preferable because
one-file-per-node scales poorly to tens of thousands of nodes as Puppet
will read tens of thousands of files every time a catalog is compiled.


> Also, is there a way to have the node defs broken out without having to
> use import 'node/*' ? Or would that be to just list each one out by name?
>

You could use a single default node and selectively include classes using
conditional logic.  Or use an external node classifier.

-Jeff

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Re: [Puppet Users] Best practice for Node Def files

[llowder]

On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:14:47 PM UTC-5, Jeff McCune wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:36 PM, llowder 
> > wrote:
>
>> If using the nodes/*.pp and having your site.pp be "import 'nodes/*'",
>>
>
> You should avoid using the import statement (see 
> http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/12929).  Instead, follow the 
> [module conventions](docs.puppetlabs.com/guides/modules.html)
>  
>

I do have all my classes in modules, and the only place I use import is in 
my site.pp
 

> what is the best practice? Is it better to have one node def per file, or 
>> group the node defs by class (ie, all app servers in one file or all web 
>> servers in one file) or some other layout?
>>
>
> Best practice is to use an external node classifier or place all of your 
> node declarations into one site.pp file.  One file is preferable because 
> one-file-per-node scales poorly to tens of thousands of nodes as Puppet 
> will read tens of thousands of files every time a catalog is compiled.
>  
>

I only have a few dozen nodes to manage at present, and in the next while 
that is only likely to grow from 2-3 dozen to 3-4 dozen, so scaling isn't 
something I need to worry about (though it is something I keep in mind just 
in case of unexpected growth). Using all the nodes in site.pp seems like it 
would scale poorly as well, as then you have a single massive file you have 
to search through every time you need to either add a node or update one.

 

> Also, is there a way to have the node defs broken out without having to 
>> use import 'node/*' ? Or would that be to just list each one out by name?
>>
>
> You could use a single default node and selectively include classes using 
> conditional logic.  Or use an external node classifier.
>  
>

At present, the classes in our modules would have to be reworked in order 
to use an ENC, as they do not allow for direct relationship chaining.  That 
sort of refactoring (to make the classes and modules manage their own 
deps)  is on my list of things to do, as is looking at moving to an ENC, 
but it is goingto be a while before I am able to.


 

> -Jeff
>

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Re: [Puppet Users] Best practice for Node Def files

[Ramin K]

On 8/14/2012 2:14 PM, Jeff McCune wrote:

what is the best practice? Is it better to have one node def per
file, or group the node defs by class (ie, all app servers in one
file or all web servers in one file) or some other layout?


Best practice is to use an external node classifier or place all of your
node declarations into one site.pp file.  One file is preferable because
one-file-per-node scales poorly to tens of thousands of nodes as Puppet
will read tens of thousands of files every time a catalog is compiled.


Another option is one node file per hostgroup which doesn't get near 
enough mention despite its usefulness for the environments 95% of us 
likely administer. Provides some organization with separate files and 
scales to thousands of nodes assuming less than thousands of hostgroups.


node /^some regex based on hostname matching hostgroup$/ {

Ramin

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Re: [Puppet Users] Best practice for Node Def files

[jcbollinger]

On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:14:47 PM UTC-5, Jeff McCune wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:36 PM, llowder 
> > wrote:
>
>> If using the nodes/*.pp and having your site.pp be "import 'nodes/*'",
>>
>
> You should avoid using the import statement (see 
> http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/12929).  Instead, follow the 
> [module conventions](docs.puppetlabs.com/guides/modules.html)
>
>
Come on, Jeff.  The OP is asking specifically about the one usage pattern 
for 'import' that that ticket acknowledges is required to be supported.  As 
far as I know, every Puppet configuration must choose among these 
alternatives:

   - declare nodes directly in site.pp, and/or
   - declare nodes in files 'import'ed by site.pp, or
   - declare no nodes at all.

Even sites that rely on an ENC often have at least a few node 
declarations.  The question is about how to organize them.

As to that question, I don't think there is an established best practice.  
My best advice is to choose an approach that makes sense, and *stick to it*.  
If you decide later that a different approach would be better, then change 
everything over (i.e. don't mix).  This is all about maintainability.  You 
need to be able to easily find the node declaration you want, and if that 
declaration is absent then to determine that quickly and reliably.


John

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Re: [Puppet Users] Best practice for Node Def files

[Jeff McCune]

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 8:00 AM, jcbollinger wrote:

>
>
> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:14:47 PM UTC-5, Jeff McCune wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:36 PM, llowder  wrote:
>>
>>> If using the nodes/*.pp and having your site.pp be "import 'nodes/*'",
>>>
>>
>> You should avoid using the import statement (see
>> http://projects.puppetlabs.**com/issues/12929).
>>  Instead, follow the [module conventions](docs.puppetlabs.**
>> com/guides/modules.html )
>>
>>
> Come on, Jeff.  The OP is asking specifically about the one usage pattern
> for 'import' that that ticket acknowledges is required to be supported.
>

Sorry for the confusion.  To be clear, we're going to deprecate import.
 The ticket says we'll provide this required functionality in associated
(feature) tickets.  "We’re committed to solving this use case in associated
tickets."

My suggestion is meant to help the OP avoid the overhead of migrating away
from import once we deprecate it.  Two ways to avoid that overhead are to
put all your node declarations in site.pp or use an external node
classifier.

I'm not trying to be difficult or anything...  I'm really just trying to
make it a slightly smoother path forward for llowder.

As far as I know, every Puppet configuration must choose among these
> alternatives:
>
>- declare nodes directly in site.pp, and/or
>- declare nodes in files 'import'ed by site.pp, or
>- declare no nodes at all.
>
> Even sites that rely on an ENC often have at least a few node
> declarations.  The question is about how to organize them.
>
> As to that question, I don't think there is an established best practice.
> My best advice is to choose an approach that makes sense, and *stick to it
> *.  If you decide later that a different approach would be better, then
> change everything over (i.e. don't mix).  This is all about
> maintainability.  You need to be able to easily find the node declaration
> you want, and if that declaration is absent then to determine that quickly
> and reliably.
>

This is good advice, however, if you pick something that makes use of
import, you won't be able to stick with it for the long term because we
will drop the import statement in future Puppet versions.

We intend to deprecate import in Telly.

-Jeff

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