Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
> I have here a bounce of friends complain about ZFS, which is a memory eater > - and killer! > So, I wonder if Proxmox consider others alternatives, like BRTFS or > whatever. Yes, but there are still concerns about btrfs stability ... And btrfs is really slow in some scenarios (dpkg). ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
ext4 on mdraid would be really nice alternative proven to work for decades now and small footprint Am 22.02.2018 um 17:55 schrieb Dietmar Maurer: I have here a bounce of friends complain about ZFS, which is a memory eater - and killer! So, I wonder if Proxmox consider others alternatives, like BRTFS or whatever. Yes, but there are still concerns about btrfs stability ... And btrfs is really slow in some scenarios (dpkg). ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
>> Yes, but there are still concerns about btrfs stability There's a lot of world-wide company, such as Facebook, Synology and Rockstor, that are using BTRFS as default FS. I don't why is no stable right now. >> ext4 on mdraid would be really nice alternative >> proven to work for decades now and small footprint Yes! EXT4 for are very stable, but leak something advanced tools such as compression, dedup and RAID... Well AFAIK, the ext4 doesn't has this features... Perhaps am I wrong? --- Gilberto Nunes Ferreira (47) 3025-5907 (47) 99676-7530 - Whatsapp / Telegram Skype: gilberto.nunes36 2018-02-22 13:55 GMT-03:00 Dietmar Maurer : > > I have here a bounce of friends complain about ZFS, which is a memory > eater > > - and killer! > > So, I wonder if Proxmox consider others alternatives, like BRTFS or > > whatever. > > Yes, but there are still concerns about btrfs stability ... > And btrfs is really slow in some scenarios (dpkg). > > ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
ext4 on mdraid would be really nice alternative proven to work for decades now and small footprint Yes! EXT4 for are very stable, but leak something advanced tools such as compression, dedup and RAID... Well AFAIK, the ext4 doesn't has this features... Perhaps am I wrong? mdadm will do mirroring, and is easy and well know to maintain. Not sure if one needs any of the other features on the boot volume. Only thing EXT4 would not do is checksum / integrity check - what i guess is the reason it is not supported. afaik, it is possible to install debian minimal on mdadm raid and then add the proxmox repositories afterwards. --- Gilberto Nunes Ferreira (47) 3025-5907 (47) 99676-7530 - Whatsapp / Telegram Skype: gilberto.nunes36 2018-02-22 13:55 GMT-03:00 Dietmar Maurer : I have here a bounce of friends complain about ZFS, which is a memory eater - and killer! So, I wonder if Proxmox consider others alternatives, like BRTFS or whatever. Yes, but there are still concerns about btrfs stability ... And btrfs is really slow in some scenarios (dpkg). ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 6:04 PM, Gilberto Nunes wrote: >>> proven to work for decades now and small footprint > > Yes! EXT4 for are very stable, but leak something advanced tools such as > compression, dedup and RAID... Well AFAIK, the ext4 doesn't has this > features... Perhaps am I wrong? Yeah AND snapshots, replication, bitrot detection, resilvering only used stuff, auto healing with multiple copies ... yet let's say ext4 and ZFS have in common that they both are filesystems, yet that's all. ext4 and md is inferior in every aspect except memory usage, but ZFS was and is an enterprise file system. ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
Il 2018-02-23 14:50 Andreas Steinel ha scritto: On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 6:04 PM, Gilberto Nunes wrote: proven to work for decades now and small footprint Yes! EXT4 for are very stable, but leak something advanced tools such as compression, dedup and RAID... Well AFAIK, the ext4 doesn't has this features... Perhaps am I wrong? Yeah AND snapshots, replication, bitrot detection, resilvering only used stuff, auto healing with multiple copies ... yet let's say ext4 and ZFS have in common that they both are filesystems, yet that's all. ext4 and md is inferior in every aspect except memory usage, but ZFS was and is an enterprise file system. ^^ This is the fact! Diaolin --- par sèmpro Vöime bèn sol qoanche às tèmp anca ‘l fuss sol en menùt par mi e par ti e po’ pù niènt Giuliano Tel: 349 66 84 215 Skype: diaolin ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
s/leak/lack/g =) --- Gilberto Nunes Ferreira (47) 3025-5907 (47) 99676-7530 - Whatsapp / Telegram Skype: gilberto.nunes36 2018-02-23 14:51 GMT-03:00 Diaolin : > Il 2018-02-23 14:50 Andreas Steinel ha scritto: > >> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 6:04 PM, Gilberto Nunes >> wrote: >> >>> proven to work for decades now and small footprint > >>> Yes! EXT4 for are very stable, but leak something advanced tools such as >>> compression, dedup and RAID... Well AFAIK, the ext4 doesn't has this >>> features... Perhaps am I wrong? >>> >> >> Yeah AND snapshots, replication, bitrot detection, resilvering only >> used stuff, auto healing with multiple copies ... yet let's say ext4 >> and ZFS have in common that they both are filesystems, yet that's all. >> >> ext4 and md is inferior in every aspect except memory usage, but ZFS >> was and is an enterprise file system. >> > ^^ > This is the fact! > Diaolin > > > --- > par sèmpro > > Vöime bèn sol qoanche às tèmp > anca ‘l fuss sol en menùt > par mi e par ti > e po’ pù niènt > > Giuliano > > Tel: 349 66 84 215 > Skype: diaolin > > > > > ___ > pve-devel mailing list > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
Il 23 feb 2018 2:50 PM, "Andreas Steinel" ha scritto: ext4 and md is inferior in every aspect except memory usage, but ZFS was and is an enterprise file system. MD is way more flexible than zfs ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:11 PM, Gandalf Corvotempesta wrote: > MD is way more flexible than zfs Please elaborate. ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
In example, you can add/remove single disks You can change from any raid level to any raid level on the fly with no downtime or loss of redundancy You can grow /shrink a volume And so on... Il 24 feb 2018 12:36 AM, "Andreas Steinel" ha scritto: > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:11 PM, Gandalf Corvotempesta > wrote: > > MD is way more flexible than zfs > > Please elaborate. > ___ > pve-devel mailing list > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
What about CEPH. Pro and cons? Søren Fra: pve-devel [pve-devel-boun...@pve.proxmox.com] på vegne af Gandalf Corvotempesta [gandalf.corvotempe...@gmail.com] Sendt: 23. februar 2018 19:11 Til: PVE development discussion Emne: Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives Il 23 feb 2018 2:50 PM, "Andreas Steinel" ha scritto: ext4 and md is inferior in every aspect except memory usage, but ZFS was and is an enterprise file system. MD is way more flexible than zfs ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
Ceph is wonderful, but isn't in discussion in this thread. --- Gilberto Nunes Ferreira (47) 3025-5907 (47) 99676-7530 - Whatsapp / Telegram Skype: gilberto.nunes36 2018-02-24 9:35 GMT-03:00 Søren Laursen : > What about CEPH. > > Pro and cons? > > Søren > > > > Fra: pve-devel [pve-devel-boun...@pve.proxmox.com] på vegne af > Gandalf Corvotempesta [gandalf.corvotempe...@gmail.com] > Sendt: 23. februar 2018 19:11 > Til: PVE development discussion > Emne: Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives > > Il 23 feb 2018 2:50 PM, "Andreas Steinel" ha > scritto: > > ext4 and md is inferior in every aspect except memory usage, but ZFS > was and is an enterprise file system. > > > MD is way more flexible than zfs > ___ > pve-devel mailing list > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > ___ > pve-devel mailing list > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
It's a totally different kind of storage. You can't compare ceph with MD or zfs Il 24 feb 2018 1:35 PM, "Søren Laursen" ha scritto: What about CEPH. Pro and cons? Søren Fra: pve-devel [pve-devel-boun...@pve.proxmox.com] på vegne af Gandalf Corvotempesta [gandalf.corvotempe...@gmail.com] Sendt: 23. februar 2018 19:11 Til: PVE development discussion Emne: Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives Il 23 feb 2018 2:50 PM, "Andreas Steinel" ha scritto: ext4 and md is inferior in every aspect except memory usage, but ZFS was and is an enterprise file system. MD is way more flexible than zfs ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta wrote: > In example, you can add/remove single disks > You can change from any raid level to any raid level on the fly with no > downtime or loss of redundancy > You can grow /shrink a volume Good points, especially the shrink that, that does indeed currently not work in ZFS. Yet I have to say, I'd never added a single disk in an enterprise setup nor changed a RAID level on the fly. How often did you do the latter? I just add at least one shelf to existing storage boxes. ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
I do that quite often. Starting with a small number of expansive disks (like SSDs or NVMEs) and being able to expand on the fly when needed, allows me to keep running cost as low as possible With zfs this is not possible (in a simple way) thus you have to start with the proper number of disks that you plan to use for some following years Il 25 feb 2018 1:42 PM, "Andreas Steinel" ha scritto: > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta > wrote: > > In example, you can add/remove single disks > > You can change from any raid level to any raid level on the fly with no > > downtime or loss of redundancy > > You can grow /shrink a volume > > Good points, especially the shrink that, that does indeed currently > not work in ZFS. Yet I have to say, I'd never added a single disk in > an enterprise setup nor changed a RAID level on the fly. How often did > you do the latter? I just add at least one shelf to existing storage > boxes. > ___ > pve-devel mailing list > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
Online expansion was recently added to OpenZFS for RAID-Z. https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/blog/openzfs-raid-z-online-expansion-project-announcement/ On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:47 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta < gandalf.corvotempe...@gmail.com> wrote: > I do that quite often. > Starting with a small number of expansive disks (like SSDs or NVMEs) and > being able to expand on the fly when needed, allows me to keep running cost > as low as possible > > With zfs this is not possible (in a simple way) thus you have to start with > the proper number of disks that you plan to use for some following years > > Il 25 feb 2018 1:42 PM, "Andreas Steinel" ha > scritto: > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta > > wrote: > > > In example, you can add/remove single disks > > > You can change from any raid level to any raid level on the fly with no > > > downtime or loss of redundancy > > > You can grow /shrink a volume > > > > Good points, especially the shrink that, that does indeed currently > > not work in ZFS. Yet I have to say, I'd never added a single disk in > > an enterprise setup nor changed a RAID level on the fly. How often did > > you do the latter? I just add at least one shelf to existing storage > > boxes. > > ___ > > pve-devel mailing list > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > ___ > pve-devel mailing list > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > -- Michael Bellerue michael.belle...@gmail.com 651.900.3068 ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
Wow That will be nice! Em dom, 25 de fev de 2018 13:24, Michael Bellerue < michael.belle...@gmail.com> escreveu: > Online expansion was recently added to OpenZFS for RAID-Z. > > > https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/blog/openzfs-raid-z-online-expansion-project-announcement/ > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:47 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta < > gandalf.corvotempe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I do that quite often. > > Starting with a small number of expansive disks (like SSDs or NVMEs) and > > being able to expand on the fly when needed, allows me to keep running > cost > > as low as possible > > > > With zfs this is not possible (in a simple way) thus you have to start > with > > the proper number of disks that you plan to use for some following years > > > > Il 25 feb 2018 1:42 PM, "Andreas Steinel" ha > > scritto: > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta > > > wrote: > > > > In example, you can add/remove single disks > > > > You can change from any raid level to any raid level on the fly with > no > > > > downtime or loss of redundancy > > > > You can grow /shrink a volume > > > > > > Good points, especially the shrink that, that does indeed currently > > > not work in ZFS. Yet I have to say, I'd never added a single disk in > > > an enterprise setup nor changed a RAID level on the fly. How often did > > > you do the latter? I just add at least one shelf to existing storage > > > boxes. > > > ___ > > > pve-devel mailing list > > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > > > ___ > > pve-devel mailing list > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > > > > -- > Michael Bellerue > michael.belle...@gmail.com > 651.900.3068 > ___ > pve-devel mailing list > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
Planning to add doesn't mean that it was added If I remember properly, no a single line of code was written up to today Il 25 feb 2018 5:24 PM, "Michael Bellerue" ha scritto: > Online expansion was recently added to OpenZFS for RAID-Z. > > https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/blog/openzfs-raid-z- > online-expansion-project-announcement/ > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:47 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta < > gandalf.corvotempe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I do that quite often. > > Starting with a small number of expansive disks (like SSDs or NVMEs) and > > being able to expand on the fly when needed, allows me to keep running > cost > > as low as possible > > > > With zfs this is not possible (in a simple way) thus you have to start > with > > the proper number of disks that you plan to use for some following years > > > > Il 25 feb 2018 1:42 PM, "Andreas Steinel" ha > > scritto: > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta > > > wrote: > > > > In example, you can add/remove single disks > > > > You can change from any raid level to any raid level on the fly with > no > > > > downtime or loss of redundancy > > > > You can grow /shrink a volume > > > > > > Good points, especially the shrink that, that does indeed currently > > > not work in ZFS. Yet I have to say, I'd never added a single disk in > > > an enterprise setup nor changed a RAID level on the fly. How often did > > > you do the latter? I just add at least one shelf to existing storage > > > boxes. > > > ___ > > > pve-devel mailing list > > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > > > ___ > > pve-devel mailing list > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > > > > -- > Michael Bellerue > michael.belle...@gmail.com > 651.900.3068 > ___ > pve-devel mailing list > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
Take a look at https://twitter.com/OpenZFS/status/92104244627598 Em dom, 25 de fev de 2018 13:36, Gandalf Corvotempesta < gandalf.corvotempe...@gmail.com> escreveu: > Planning to add doesn't mean that it was added > If I remember properly, no a single line of code was written up to > today > > Il 25 feb 2018 5:24 PM, "Michael Bellerue" ha > scritto: > > > Online expansion was recently added to OpenZFS for RAID-Z. > > > > https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/blog/openzfs-raid-z- > > online-expansion-project-announcement/ > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:47 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta < > > gandalf.corvotempe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I do that quite often. > > > Starting with a small number of expansive disks (like SSDs or NVMEs) > and > > > being able to expand on the fly when needed, allows me to keep running > > cost > > > as low as possible > > > > > > With zfs this is not possible (in a simple way) thus you have to start > > with > > > the proper number of disks that you plan to use for some following > years > > > > > > Il 25 feb 2018 1:42 PM, "Andreas Steinel" ha > > > scritto: > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta > > > > wrote: > > > > > In example, you can add/remove single disks > > > > > You can change from any raid level to any raid level on the fly > with > > no > > > > > downtime or loss of redundancy > > > > > You can grow /shrink a volume > > > > > > > > Good points, especially the shrink that, that does indeed currently > > > > not work in ZFS. Yet I have to say, I'd never added a single disk in > > > > an enterprise setup nor changed a RAID level on the fly. How often > did > > > > you do the latter? I just add at least one shelf to existing storage > > > > boxes. > > > > ___ > > > > pve-devel mailing list > > > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > > > > > ___ > > > pve-devel mailing list > > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Michael Bellerue > > michael.belle...@gmail.com > > 651.900.3068 > > ___ > > pve-devel mailing list > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > ___ > pve-devel mailing list > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
Still unfinished and is not the same as MD As I can see, old data still keep the old parity, with MD all data are rewritten thus making use of all disks for performance reason If you add 2 disks to a 4 disks raid6, you'll get 6 disks IOPS when reading, with zfs you are still limited to 4 disks IOPS for old data AFAIK the only real reason to use ZFS is for bitrot and incremental backups using shapshots. Everything else can also be made by using MD plus some additional software (in pure Unix style: one software to do one thing. ZFS it's the opposite :one software for all: raid, filesystem, snapshots, volume manager, backups,) Il 25 feb 2018 5:37 PM, "Gilberto Nunes" ha scritto: > Take a look at > > https://twitter.com/OpenZFS/status/92104244627598 > > > > Em dom, 25 de fev de 2018 13:36, Gandalf Corvotempesta < > gandalf.corvotempe...@gmail.com> escreveu: > > > Planning to add doesn't mean that it was added > > If I remember properly, no a single line of code was written up to > > today > > > > Il 25 feb 2018 5:24 PM, "Michael Bellerue" > ha > > scritto: > > > > > Online expansion was recently added to OpenZFS for RAID-Z. > > > > > > https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/blog/openzfs-raid-z- > > > online-expansion-project-announcement/ > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:47 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta < > > > gandalf.corvotempe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > I do that quite often. > > > > Starting with a small number of expansive disks (like SSDs or NVMEs) > > and > > > > being able to expand on the fly when needed, allows me to keep > running > > > cost > > > > as low as possible > > > > > > > > With zfs this is not possible (in a simple way) thus you have to > start > > > with > > > > the proper number of disks that you plan to use for some following > > years > > > > > > > > Il 25 feb 2018 1:42 PM, "Andreas Steinel" ha > > > > scritto: > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Gandalf Corvotempesta > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > In example, you can add/remove single disks > > > > > > You can change from any raid level to any raid level on the fly > > with > > > no > > > > > > downtime or loss of redundancy > > > > > > You can grow /shrink a volume > > > > > > > > > > Good points, especially the shrink that, that does indeed currently > > > > > not work in ZFS. Yet I have to say, I'd never added a single disk > in > > > > > an enterprise setup nor changed a RAID level on the fly. How often > > did > > > > > you do the latter? I just add at least one shelf to existing > storage > > > > > boxes. > > > > > ___ > > > > > pve-devel mailing list > > > > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > > > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > pve-devel mailing list > > > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Michael Bellerue > > > michael.belle...@gmail.com > > > 651.900.3068 > > > ___ > > > pve-devel mailing list > > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > > > ___ > > pve-devel mailing list > > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > > > ___ > pve-devel mailing list > pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel > ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
Re: [pve-devel] ZFS alternatives
On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 9:08 PM, Gandalf Corvotempesta wrote: > As I can see, old data still keep the old parity, with MD all data are > rewritten thus making use of all disks for performance reason Yes, data has to be "resynched" manually via send/receive - same way as with an expansion of disks. > AFAIK the only real reason to use ZFS is for bitrot and incremental backups > using shapshots. CoW clones, variable block size, transparent compression, deduplication, resync only used records on disk failure > Everything else can also be made by using MD plus some additional software > (in pure Unix style: one software to do one thing. ZFS it's the opposite > :one software for all: raid, filesystem, snapshots, volume manager, > backups,) Yes, ZFS kinda breakes this concept, yet I see the charme in it. It happend - more than once - with e.g. LVM that you have enough space, yet not all in one volume, but in multiple. This cannot happen in ZFS because of the unified approach that all data is stored in the pool and you can use the free space everywhere. I really think combining this is the way to go. ___ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@pve.proxmox.com https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel
