Re: [pygame] Python 3.0 and Pygame Reloaded questions
Okay, one more question: where can I find it? Plugging in the URL given at the Pygame site isn't working, and I can't reach it via Google either. Can someone provide me with a direct link, or tell me what I'm doing wrong here?
Re: [pygame] API draft for vector type
One aspect of vector class design that I've become more and more a fan of over time is vector immutability. So you can't say stuff like: vector.x += 2 vector.x = 5 but instead would have to say stuff like: vector += (2, 0) vector = vector2d(5, vector.y) their are a couple reasons to design them that way - first is no one can ever change your attributes underneath you - which is a bug I've run into every now and then with mutable vectors, and have had to work around by having stuff contruct and return new vectors instead of returning the internal one. what I mean is code like this is pretty bad (but moderately easy to write) --- class Angel(object) def __init__(self, offset): self.offset = offset t = new Angel() halo_pos = t.offset halo_pos.y -= 5 DrawHalo(halo_pos) - and immutability of vectors makes that bug impossible. the second reason for immutability of vectors is that they can because keys in dicts (something I've found useful, but have had to use 2 element tuples instead to make it work) On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Lorenz Quack d...@amberfisharts.com wrote: Hello, I am interested in the inclusion of a vector and matrix types into pygame as suggested here [4]. In this email I want to propose a API for a vector module. I will for brevity only present the API for the types in three dimensions. The APIs for two or four dimensions should look analog. Also I enumerated every API for easier reference in discussions. Alternatives are denoted by lexical items (e.g. a) or b)) At the end I put together a small comparison to existing implementations. This is only a suggestion to spark discussion and provoke feedback. So throw in your 2 cents. sincerely yours //Lorenz PS: If this turns out to be of any value I will put something similar together for matrix types and quaternions. ** * API draft v1.0 * ** In the following I will use the notation: v, v1, v2, ... are vectors s, s1, s2, ... are objects implementing the sequences protocol (list, tuple, the proposed vector) a, a1, a2, ... are scalars (int, float) § 1 Vector type 1.1 Class name and constructor == 1.1.1 a) Vector3 b) Vector3d 1.1.2 V(a1, a2, a3)# initialize x, y and z with a1, a2 and a3 respectivly 1.1.3 V(s) # initialize x, y and z with s[0], s[1] and s[2] respectivly 1.1.4 V() # initialize x, y and z with zeros 1.2 numerical behavior == 1.2.1.1 v1 + s - v3 1.2.1.2 s + v1 - v3 1.2.1.3 v += s 1.2.2.1 v1 - s - v3 1.2.2.2 s - v1 - v3 1.2.2.3 v -= s 1.2.3.1 v1 * a - v3 1.2.3.2 a * v1 - v3 1.2.3.3 v *= a 1.2.4.1 v1 / a - v3 1.2.4.2 v /= a 1.2.5.1 v1 // a - v3 1.2.5.2 v //= a 1.2.6.1 v1 % a - v3 1.2.6.2 v %= a 1.2.7.1 v * s - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.2.7.2 s * v - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.2.8.1 +v1 - v2 # returns a new vector 1.2.8.2 -v1 - v2 1.3 sequence behavior = 1.3.1len(v) - 3 # fixed length 1.3.2.1 v[0] - a # 0-based indexing 1.3.2.2 v[0] = a 1.4 attributes == 1.4.0x, y, z (and w for 4th dimension) _epsilon for comparison operations 1.4.1.1 v.x - a 1.4.1.2 v.x = a 1.5 methods === 1.5.1v.dot(s) - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.5.2v.cross(s) - v # cross/vector product # in 2 dimensions this returns v.x * s[1] - v.y * s[0] # this is not defined in 4 dimensions 1.5.3v.outer(s) - m # outer product yielding a matrix 1.5.4.1 v.isNormalized() - bool 1.5.4.2 v.normalize() - None# normalizes inplace 1.5.4.3 v1.normalized() - v2# returns normalized vector 1.5.5.1 v1.rotate(s1[, a]) - None # rotates around s1 by angle a. if a isn't given it # rotates around s1 by the magnitude of s1 # this is an inplace operation 1.5.5.2 v1.rotated(s1[, a]) - v2 # same as 1.5.6 but returns a new vector and leaves v1 untouched 1.5.6.1 v1.rotateX(a) - None # rotates v1 around the x-axis by the angle a 1.5.6.2 v1.rotatedX(a) - v2 # same as 1.5.6.1 but returns a new vector and leaves v1 untouched 1.5.6.3 # implement 1.5.6.1 and 2 also for Y and Z 1.5.7v1.reflect(s) - v2 # reflects the vector of a surface with surface normal s 1.5.8a) v1.interpolate(s, a) - generator of vectors b) v1.slerp(s, a) - generator of vectors # the distance between v1 and s divided in a steps 1.5.9v.getAngleTo(s) - a # returns the angle between v and s 1.5.10.1 v.getDistanceTo(s) - a # returns the distance between v and s 1.5.10.2 v.getDistance2To(s) - a # returns the squared distance between v and s 1.6 properties == 1.6.1.1 v.length - a # gets the magnitude/length of the vector 1.6.1.2
Re: [pygame] API draft for vector type
Any reason to not follow the pep-8 naming convention for methods, i.e.: v.get_distance_to() instead of: v.getDistanceTo() or maybe even (the get seems a little superfluous): v.distanceto() Other pygame modules seem to use the pep-8 convention, would be a shame to break the nice consistency. -Casey On Apr 27, 2009, at 3:59 PM, Lorenz Quack wrote: Hello, I am interested in the inclusion of a vector and matrix types into pygame as suggested here [4]. In this email I want to propose a API for a vector module. I will for brevity only present the API for the types in three dimensions. The APIs for two or four dimensions should look analog. Also I enumerated every API for easier reference in discussions. Alternatives are denoted by lexical items (e.g. a) or b)) At the end I put together a small comparison to existing implementations. This is only a suggestion to spark discussion and provoke feedback. So throw in your 2 cents. sincerely yours //Lorenz PS: If this turns out to be of any value I will put something similar together for matrix types and quaternions. ** * API draft v1.0 * ** In the following I will use the notation: v, v1, v2, ... are vectors s, s1, s2, ... are objects implementing the sequences protocol (list, tuple, the proposed vector) a, a1, a2, ... are scalars (int, float) § 1 Vector type 1.1 Class name and constructor == 1.1.1 a) Vector3 b) Vector3d 1.1.2 V(a1, a2, a3)# initialize x, y and z with a1, a2 and a3 respectivly 1.1.3 V(s) # initialize x, y and z with s[0], s[1] and s[2] respectivly 1.1.4 V() # initialize x, y and z with zeros 1.2 numerical behavior == 1.2.1.1 v1 + s - v3 1.2.1.2 s + v1 - v3 1.2.1.3 v += s 1.2.2.1 v1 - s - v3 1.2.2.2 s - v1 - v3 1.2.2.3 v -= s 1.2.3.1 v1 * a - v3 1.2.3.2 a * v1 - v3 1.2.3.3 v *= a 1.2.4.1 v1 / a - v3 1.2.4.2 v /= a 1.2.5.1 v1 // a - v3 1.2.5.2 v //= a 1.2.6.1 v1 % a - v3 1.2.6.2 v %= a 1.2.7.1 v * s - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.2.7.2 s * v - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.2.8.1 +v1 - v2 # returns a new vector 1.2.8.2 -v1 - v2 1.3 sequence behavior = 1.3.1len(v) - 3 # fixed length 1.3.2.1 v[0] - a # 0-based indexing 1.3.2.2 v[0] = a 1.4 attributes == 1.4.0x, y, z (and w for 4th dimension) _epsilon for comparison operations 1.4.1.1 v.x - a 1.4.1.2 v.x = a 1.5 methods === 1.5.1v.dot(s) - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.5.2v.cross(s) - v # cross/vector product # in 2 dimensions this returns v.x * s[1] - v.y * s[0] # this is not defined in 4 dimensions 1.5.3v.outer(s) - m # outer product yielding a matrix 1.5.4.1 v.isNormalized() - bool 1.5.4.2 v.normalize() - None# normalizes inplace 1.5.4.3 v1.normalized() - v2# returns normalized vector 1.5.5.1 v1.rotate(s1[, a]) - None # rotates around s1 by angle a. if a isn't given it # rotates around s1 by the magnitude of s1 # this is an inplace operation 1.5.5.2 v1.rotated(s1[, a]) - v2 # same as 1.5.6 but returns a new vector and leaves v1 untouched 1.5.6.1 v1.rotateX(a) - None # rotates v1 around the x-axis by the angle a 1.5.6.2 v1.rotatedX(a) - v2 # same as 1.5.6.1 but returns a new vector and leaves v1 untouched 1.5.6.3 # implement 1.5.6.1 and 2 also for Y and Z 1.5.7v1.reflect(s) - v2 # reflects the vector of a surface with surface normal s 1.5.8a) v1.interpolate(s, a) - generator of vectors b) v1.slerp(s, a) - generator of vectors # the distance between v1 and s divided in a steps 1.5.9v.getAngleTo(s) - a # returns the angle between v and s 1.5.10.1 v.getDistanceTo(s) - a # returns the distance between v and s 1.5.10.2 v.getDistance2To(s) - a # returns the squared distance between v and s 1.6 properties == 1.6.1.1 v.length - a # gets the magnitude/length of the vector 1.6.1.2 v.length = a # sets the length of the vector while preserving its direction 1.6.2.1 a) v.lengthSquared - a b) v.length2 - a # gets the squared length of the vector. same as v.dot(v) or v * v 1.6.2.1 a) v.lengthSquared = a b) v.length2 = a # sets the squared length of the vector. preserving its direction # the following only have meaning in 3 dimensions 1.6.3.1 v.r - a # returns the r coordiante of sherical coordinates # this is the same as the length property 1.6.3.2 v.r = a 1.6.4.1 v.phi - a # returns the phi coordiante of spherical coordiantes 1.6.4.2 v.phi = a 1.6.5.1 v.theta - a # returns the theta coordiante of spherical coordiantes 1.6.5.2 v.theta = a 1.7 comparison operations = 1.7.0the == and != and bool operater compare the
Re: [pygame] API draft for vector type
On Apr 27, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Brian Fisher wrote: I don't see a 3 element vector type being useful from a pygame perspective. What pygame api anywhere even takes 3 element lists aside from colors? (which already have a special struct type thing) I'd have to disagree with this myself, since pygame+pyOpenGL is a fairly popular combo, it seems like omitting 3d vectors on the grounds that most pygames are 2D is too minimalist. OTOH, I don't think it needs 4D vectors. 1D vectors, however, would be awesome ;^) ... and a 3 element vector (and quaternions and matrices) being part of pyOpenGL, that sounds great too... I could be wrong, but I don't think pyOpenGL strives to provide such tools, which are not strictly part of the OpenGL api. Whereas pygame does try to provide such lower-level abstractions. Of course you could make a slippery slope argument here, where there is soon demand for more 3D tools given 3D vectors, like rectangular prisms, etc. -Casey
Re: [pygame] API draft for vector type
very good work. +1 to the pep8 naming like someone else mentioned. Would be nice if the vectors storage of things could be anything underneath. This would be useful to allow them to use pygame.Rect or numpy.array underneath. This means they can refer to a batch of vectors, but also operate only on a single vector at a time. Wondering about why only 3 element vectors? 2,3, and 4 element ones are common? Is there a way to make a combined 2,3,4 type? What number types are used? eg, can you have a float vector, a long vector, an int vector? Any python number? A uint8 ? cu, On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Lorenz Quack d...@amberfisharts.com wrote: Hello, I am interested in the inclusion of a vector and matrix types into pygame as suggested here [4]. In this email I want to propose a API for a vector module. I will for brevity only present the API for the types in three dimensions. The APIs for two or four dimensions should look analog. Also I enumerated every API for easier reference in discussions. Alternatives are denoted by lexical items (e.g. a) or b)) At the end I put together a small comparison to existing implementations. This is only a suggestion to spark discussion and provoke feedback. So throw in your 2 cents. sincerely yours //Lorenz PS: If this turns out to be of any value I will put something similar together for matrix types and quaternions. ** * API draft v1.0 * ** In the following I will use the notation: v, v1, v2, ... are vectors s, s1, s2, ... are objects implementing the sequences protocol (list, tuple, the proposed vector) a, a1, a2, ... are scalars (int, float) § 1 Vector type 1.1 Class name and constructor == 1.1.1 a) Vector3 b) Vector3d 1.1.2 V(a1, a2, a3)# initialize x, y and z with a1, a2 and a3 respectivly 1.1.3 V(s) # initialize x, y and z with s[0], s[1] and s[2] respectivly 1.1.4 V() # initialize x, y and z with zeros 1.2 numerical behavior == 1.2.1.1 v1 + s - v3 1.2.1.2 s + v1 - v3 1.2.1.3 v += s 1.2.2.1 v1 - s - v3 1.2.2.2 s - v1 - v3 1.2.2.3 v -= s 1.2.3.1 v1 * a - v3 1.2.3.2 a * v1 - v3 1.2.3.3 v *= a 1.2.4.1 v1 / a - v3 1.2.4.2 v /= a 1.2.5.1 v1 // a - v3 1.2.5.2 v //= a 1.2.6.1 v1 % a - v3 1.2.6.2 v %= a 1.2.7.1 v * s - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.2.7.2 s * v - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.2.8.1 +v1 - v2 # returns a new vector 1.2.8.2 -v1 - v2 1.3 sequence behavior = 1.3.1len(v) - 3 # fixed length 1.3.2.1 v[0] - a # 0-based indexing 1.3.2.2 v[0] = a 1.4 attributes == 1.4.0x, y, z (and w for 4th dimension) _epsilon for comparison operations 1.4.1.1 v.x - a 1.4.1.2 v.x = a 1.5 methods === 1.5.1v.dot(s) - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.5.2v.cross(s) - v # cross/vector product # in 2 dimensions this returns v.x * s[1] - v.y * s[0] # this is not defined in 4 dimensions 1.5.3v.outer(s) - m # outer product yielding a matrix 1.5.4.1 v.isNormalized() - bool 1.5.4.2 v.normalize() - None# normalizes inplace 1.5.4.3 v1.normalized() - v2# returns normalized vector 1.5.5.1 v1.rotate(s1[, a]) - None # rotates around s1 by angle a. if a isn't given it # rotates around s1 by the magnitude of s1 # this is an inplace operation 1.5.5.2 v1.rotated(s1[, a]) - v2 # same as 1.5.6 but returns a new vector and leaves v1 untouched 1.5.6.1 v1.rotateX(a) - None # rotates v1 around the x-axis by the angle a 1.5.6.2 v1.rotatedX(a) - v2 # same as 1.5.6.1 but returns a new vector and leaves v1 untouched 1.5.6.3 # implement 1.5.6.1 and 2 also for Y and Z 1.5.7v1.reflect(s) - v2 # reflects the vector of a surface with surface normal s 1.5.8a) v1.interpolate(s, a) - generator of vectors b) v1.slerp(s, a) - generator of vectors # the distance between v1 and s divided in a steps 1.5.9v.getAngleTo(s) - a # returns the angle between v and s 1.5.10.1 v.getDistanceTo(s) - a # returns the distance between v and s 1.5.10.2 v.getDistance2To(s) - a # returns the squared distance between v and s 1.6 properties == 1.6.1.1 v.length - a # gets the magnitude/length of the vector 1.6.1.2 v.length = a # sets the length of the vector while preserving its direction 1.6.2.1 a) v.lengthSquared - a b) v.length2 - a # gets the squared length of the vector. same as v.dot(v) or v * v 1.6.2.1 a) v.lengthSquared = a b) v.length2 = a # sets the squared length of the vector. preserving its direction # the following only have meaning in 3 dimensions 1.6.3.1 v.r - a # returns the r coordiante of sherical coordinates
Re: [pygame] Camera module roadmap
Hoi, I have included a timeline for the implementation of the camera module for osx in my gsoc application. You can take a look at that, to get an idea of how long it is going to take to implement. Mzls On 26-apr-09, at 21:53, Alexandre Quessy wrote: Hi all, (esp. Nirav, René and Chelsea) I am interested in getting involved in the pygame camera module, since I use it for my stop motion software ToonLoop I am developing with Tristan Matthews. See http://toonloop.com : and yes, I think ToonLoop is a great free software to test the pygame.camera module with, if you don't installing Twisted. Creating a cross-platform application is my main concern, and I feel like there is a lack of cross-platform C libraries for having a live camera input. Anyways, Python is the way to go for such a high-level software like mine. I am not so much of an expert in C, but I can help with the software architecture. Mac : So, the Mac version uses the OpenCV wrapper for now ? I have read on Nirav's blog that py-objective-C wasn't well maintained enough ? Does that mean we will stick with the OpenCV camera wrapper this summer, Chelsea ? Are there build/install instructions for Mac ? It seems like the camera API is slightly different between Mac and GNU/Linux. At the end of this email, I provide two code snippets which illustrates those differences. It's when we initiate the camera, and when copying a surface from it to a list of surfaces. Linux : On GNU/Linux, I am having success with v4l2 inputs. What is the state of the v4l ones ? Has it been reported to work for some users ? Any plan to support raw1394 cameras ? (libdc1394) When is it planned to release a .deb with pygame containing the camera module ? What is the state of your computer vision tools for Pygame, Nirav ? Windows : What is the state of the camera module on Windows ? The vidcap module was reported to be working, (Feb 2009) but will it be officially part of pygame, or should it be using an other tool/driver ? Any chances I can make py2app and py2exe applications with pygame.camera support before the end of the summer ? Thank you !! -- Differences between the pygame.camera in Mac v/s GNU/Linux -- ### Initiating the camera ## video_device_num = 0 size = (320, 240) if self.IS_MAC: print Using camera %s % (video_device_num) self.camera = pygame.camera.Camera(video_device_num, size) else: print Using camera /dev/video%d % (video_device_num) self.camera = pygame.camera.Camera(/dev/video%d % (video_device_num), size) ### Grabbing an image ### if self.IS_MAC: self.shot.images.append(self.most_recent_image.copy()) else: self.shot.images.append(self.most_recent_image) -- Alexandre Quessy http://alexandre.quessy.net/
Re: [pygame] API draft for vector type
I've pretty much abandoned the idea of vector classes in Python. I've tested various implementations: pure python classes (with and without __slots__), C++ exposed through Pyrex/Cython, tuples manipulated through add/mul/div/etc functions. . . Of these, C++ turned out to be the fastest, but faster by far than that was simply not using any structure at all. Store the components in tuples for convenience, but extract them and manipulated them individually for complex equations. Vector classes work well for convenience and code readability, but from a performance standpoint they aren't very useful. On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Brian Fisher br...@hamsterrepublic.com wrote: I don't see a 3 element vector type being useful from a pygame perspective. What pygame api anywhere even takes 3 element lists aside from colors? (which already have a special struct type thing) I'm not saying 3 element vectors don't have their uses - just that the seem to me to be a pretty random thing to have added to pygame, which is exclusively 2d in every interesting respect. It seems like the sort of thing to add that would add much more to the maintenance and testing cost of the pygame library than it would bring to the users as a whole. To put another way, there is no synergy between a 3 element vector class and pygame. Why would a 3 element vector class be better as part of pygame than not? what existing element of pygame is better or easier to use with a 3 element vector also being part of pygame? ...now a 2 element vector being part of pygame... rect could be better by making use of it, it could be used as an argument to the various functions that take 2 element lists, etc. etc ... and a 3 element vector (and quaternions and matrices) being part of pyOpenGL, that sounds great too... On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Lorenz Quack d...@amberfisharts.com wrote: Hello, I am interested in the inclusion of a vector and matrix types into pygame as suggested here [4]. In this email I want to propose a API for a vector module. I will for brevity only present the API for the types in three dimensions. The APIs for two or four dimensions should look analog. Also I enumerated every API for easier reference in discussions. Alternatives are denoted by lexical items (e.g. a) or b)) At the end I put together a small comparison to existing implementations. This is only a suggestion to spark discussion and provoke feedback. So throw in your 2 cents. sincerely yours //Lorenz PS: If this turns out to be of any value I will put something similar together for matrix types and quaternions. ** * API draft v1.0 * ** In the following I will use the notation: v, v1, v2, ... are vectors s, s1, s2, ... are objects implementing the sequences protocol (list, tuple, the proposed vector) a, a1, a2, ... are scalars (int, float) § 1 Vector type 1.1 Class name and constructor == 1.1.1 a) Vector3 b) Vector3d 1.1.2 V(a1, a2, a3)# initialize x, y and z with a1, a2 and a3 respectivly 1.1.3 V(s) # initialize x, y and z with s[0], s[1] and s[2] respectivly 1.1.4 V() # initialize x, y and z with zeros 1.2 numerical behavior == 1.2.1.1 v1 + s - v3 1.2.1.2 s + v1 - v3 1.2.1.3 v += s 1.2.2.1 v1 - s - v3 1.2.2.2 s - v1 - v3 1.2.2.3 v -= s 1.2.3.1 v1 * a - v3 1.2.3.2 a * v1 - v3 1.2.3.3 v *= a 1.2.4.1 v1 / a - v3 1.2.4.2 v /= a 1.2.5.1 v1 // a - v3 1.2.5.2 v //= a 1.2.6.1 v1 % a - v3 1.2.6.2 v %= a 1.2.7.1 v * s - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.2.7.2 s * v - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.2.8.1 +v1 - v2 # returns a new vector 1.2.8.2 -v1 - v2 1.3 sequence behavior = 1.3.1 len(v) - 3 # fixed length 1.3.2.1 v[0] - a # 0-based indexing 1.3.2.2 v[0] = a 1.4 attributes == 1.4.0 x, y, z (and w for 4th dimension) _epsilon for comparison operations 1.4.1.1 v.x - a 1.4.1.2 v.x = a 1.5 methods === 1.5.1 v.dot(s) - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.5.2 v.cross(s) - v # cross/vector product # in 2 dimensions this returns v.x * s[1] - v.y * s[0] # this is not defined in 4 dimensions 1.5.3 v.outer(s) - m # outer product yielding a matrix 1.5.4.1 v.isNormalized() - bool 1.5.4.2 v.normalize() - None # normalizes inplace 1.5.4.3 v1.normalized() - v2 # returns normalized vector 1.5.5.1 v1.rotate(s1[, a]) - None # rotates around s1 by angle a. if a isn't given it # rotates around s1 by the magnitude of s1 # this is an inplace operation 1.5.5.2 v1.rotated(s1[, a]) - v2 # same as 1.5.6 but returns a new vector and leaves v1 untouched 1.5.6.1 v1.rotateX(a) - None # rotates v1 around the x-axis by the angle a 1.5.6.2
[pygame] pygame website source code
hellos, here's the pygame.org website source code... http://rene.f0o.com/~rene/pygame.tgzhttp://rene.f0o.com/%7Erene/pygame.tgz MD5 (pygame.tgz) = 1c90076a4927fed5594b36a4dc8b52e0 The database will be coming once it is cleaned up... to remove any private/personal information... and it gets double checked by someone else too. Maybe a few more days for it to be ready. Thanks to Phil for preparing the source code, and to Marcus for helping me to check it for personal/private info. cheers!
Re: [pygame] PyGame Website Rewrite
yeah should be mostly simple... the website also uses some stuff to filter out things like javascript. Hopefully there is something similar available for python now. Does lxml support that? Failing that, will have to convert one of the ones from php. feedparser in python is pretty good for that... however it still has some problems. It's a must for user submitted website content, no matter the markup language. cu, On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Lenard Lindstrom le...@telus.net wrote: Sanitising will be simple. I have tried lxml. Of course there is also beautifulsoup. Another issue is maintaining consistently across pages. Using h.. tags doesn't work. Remembering what header level to use when is bothersome. If new, more descriptive, header tags could be added that would be great. And a preview function. Lenard René Dudfield wrote: Hi, I suggest using the current one - rewritten in python, and fixing that bug. I think that's the only code mangling bug it has? Yeah, the code in the wiki is probably best described as non-strict html... or just html... which is not strict itself. The wiki does some sanitising on the html after entry. It's only a few lines of code to add a gui editor like tinymce... so we could add that for those who don't want to use markup. cheers, On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:52 AM, Lenard Lindstrom le...@telus.netmailto: le...@telus.net wrote: Hi René, I don't know about Trac's tracking system but I find bugzilla difficult as it requires report generation. How to get a listing of recent bugs is not obvious. The html markup in the current wiki is not strict XHTML. We do want the new site to generate properly formed XHTML pages, or am I mistaken. Also Python code gets mangled, '' replaced with 'lt;' for code sections. This is probably a data entry problem though. But whatever wiki engine is chosen it has to handle this properly. Trac does. Do any of the html tag wikis handle it right? What alternate wiki do you suggest? Lenard René Dudfield wrote: hi, the main way we do bugs with pygame is through the mailing list. The internet is a bug tracker. I wrote a blog post about the reasons why the mailing list is good, and what 'the internet is a bug tracker' means: http://renesd.blogspot.com/2008/02/bugs-search-not-categorise.html I personally think trac is a bit rubbish, and have been happy with James Paige hosting bugzilla for us. The current pygame wiki just uses simple html. So should be fairly straight forward to convert... or we could just leave it in html. Since most programmers know html anyway... way more than trac markup.
Re: [pygame] PyGame Website Rewrite
Hi, lxml parses the html to an xml ElementTree structure. It is also a validating parser, so a restrictived DTD could be provided to reject scripts. Or the tree could just be searched. Lenard Quoting René Dudfield ren...@gmail.com: yeah should be mostly simple... the website also uses some stuff to filter out things like javascript. Hopefully there is something similar available for python now. Does lxml support that? Failing that, will have to convert one of the ones from php. feedparser in python is pretty good for that... however it still has some problems. It's a must for user submitted website content, no matter the markup language. cu, On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Lenard Lindstrom le...@telus.net wrote: Sanitising will be simple. I have tried lxml. Of course there is also beautifulsoup. Another issue is maintaining consistently across pages. Using h.. tags doesn't work. Remembering what header level to use when is bothersome. If new, more descriptive, header tags could be added that would be great. And a preview function. Lenard René Dudfield wrote: Hi, I suggest using the current one - rewritten in python, and fixing that bug. I think that's the only code mangling bug it has? Yeah, the code in the wiki is probably best described as non-strict html... or just html... which is not strict itself. The wiki does some sanitising on the html after entry. It's only a few lines of code to add a gui editor like tinymce... so we could add that for those who don't want to use markup. cheers, On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:52 AM, Lenard Lindstrom le...@telus.netmailto: le...@telus.net wrote: Hi René, I don't know about Trac's tracking system but I find bugzilla difficult as it requires report generation. How to get a listing of recent bugs is not obvious. The html markup in the current wiki is not strict XHTML. We do want the new site to generate properly formed XHTML pages, or am I mistaken. Also Python code gets mangled, '' replaced with 'lt;' for code sections. This is probably a data entry problem though. But whatever wiki engine is chosen it has to handle this properly. Trac does. Do any of the html tag wikis handle it right? What alternate wiki do you suggest? Lenard René Dudfield wrote: hi, the main way we do bugs with pygame is through the mailing list. The internet is a bug tracker. I wrote a blog post about the reasons why the mailing list is good, and what 'the internet is a bug tracker' means: http://renesd.blogspot.com/2008/02/bugs-search-not-categorise.html I personally think trac is a bit rubbish, and have been happy with James Paige hosting bugzilla for us. The current pygame wiki just uses simple html. So should be fairly straight forward to convert... or we could just leave it in html. Since most programmers know html anyway... way more than trac markup. -- Lenard Lindstrom le...@telus.net
Re: [pygame] API draft for vector type
On Apr 27, 2009, at 6:16 PM, René Dudfield wrote: Would be nice if the vectors storage of things could be anything underneath. This would be useful to allow them to use pygame.Rect or numpy.array underneath. This means they can refer to a batch of vectors, but also operate only on a single vector at a time. +1, though there are performance vs. generality tradeoffs to be made. On the general side, a vector class could assume the underlying storage supports __getitem__, but the performance of this would suffer, I think too greatly. On the performance side, it could just have a pointer to an array of floats that it wraps with the vector api. I used this strategy with Lepton and the performance is great, but it is inflexible for the storage, and probably not very practical for totally general use across different storages. Wondering about why only 3 element vectors? 2,3, and 4 element ones are common? Is there a way to make a combined 2,3,4 type? Most operations can assume the higher dimensions are always zero, or the length could just be variable. But in either case the code would be slower than it would strictly need to be, since many operations would do more work than needed or would require loops where they would not be required for single purpose 2D, 3D or better vectors. What number types are used? eg, can you have a float vector, a long vector, an int vector? Any python number? A uint8 ? Seems to me like the most general number type would be a double, as it could comfortably support a wide range, does not generally have resolution issues like a 32-bit float can and performs well on modern hardware. It would also give consistent results compared to a python float, which is nice. I'm not sure what the use-case is for ints or (python) longs, the latter would probably gain little by being coded in C compared to pure python. Even in sprite-based 2D games, I find integers to be far too coarse for vector math, and operations like normalize become basically impossible. If you support multiple vector numeric types, than you have to confront a combinatorial explosion of type conversions and either duplicate, templatize or generalize the code in such a way that you trade either performance or maintainability or both. -Casey
Re: [pygame] API draft for vector type
I have found this to be generally true as well, and storing a large number of individual vector objects to be operated on in a batch performs poorly regardless of implementation language. As an example, for Lepton I coded a controller object which looped over a large number of particles to update their velocities. Under the covers the particles are stored as a simple array of C structs, but you can iterate them and access the individual vectors for position, velocity, etc. from python. To make a long story short, the python version of the code that iterated and updated the velocities by manipulating vector objects was about 1600x slower than the equivalent C code that did the same using inline vector functions. psyco sped up the python code almost 5x, but it still was no contest. This is definitely an extreme case, but one relevant to game coding at least 8^) -Casey On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:24 PM, Daniel Jo wrote: I've pretty much abandoned the idea of vector classes in Python. I've tested various implementations: pure python classes (with and without __slots__), C++ exposed through Pyrex/Cython, tuples manipulated through add/mul/div/etc functions. . . Of these, C++ turned out to be the fastest, but faster by far than that was simply not using any structure at all. Store the components in tuples for convenience, but extract them and manipulated them individually for complex equations. Vector classes work well for convenience and code readability, but from a performance standpoint they aren't very useful. On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Brian Fisher br...@hamsterrepublic.com wrote: I don't see a 3 element vector type being useful from a pygame perspective. What pygame api anywhere even takes 3 element lists aside from colors? (which already have a special struct type thing) I'm not saying 3 element vectors don't have their uses - just that the seem to me to be a pretty random thing to have added to pygame, which is exclusively 2d in every interesting respect. It seems like the sort of thing to add that would add much more to the maintenance and testing cost of the pygame library than it would bring to the users as a whole. To put another way, there is no synergy between a 3 element vector class and pygame. Why would a 3 element vector class be better as part of pygame than not? what existing element of pygame is better or easier to use with a 3 element vector also being part of pygame? ...now a 2 element vector being part of pygame... rect could be better by making use of it, it could be used as an argument to the various functions that take 2 element lists, etc. etc ... and a 3 element vector (and quaternions and matrices) being part of pyOpenGL, that sounds great too... On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Lorenz Quack d...@amberfisharts.com wrote: Hello, I am interested in the inclusion of a vector and matrix types into pygame as suggested here [4]. In this email I want to propose a API for a vector module. I will for brevity only present the API for the types in three dimensions. The APIs for two or four dimensions should look analog. Also I enumerated every API for easier reference in discussions. Alternatives are denoted by lexical items (e.g. a) or b)) At the end I put together a small comparison to existing implementations. This is only a suggestion to spark discussion and provoke feedback. So throw in your 2 cents. sincerely yours //Lorenz PS: If this turns out to be of any value I will put something similar together for matrix types and quaternions. ** * API draft v1.0 * ** In the following I will use the notation: v, v1, v2, ... are vectors s, s1, s2, ... are objects implementing the sequences protocol (list, tuple, the proposed vector) a, a1, a2, ... are scalars (int, float) § 1 Vector type 1.1 Class name and constructor == 1.1.1 a) Vector3 b) Vector3d 1.1.2 V(a1, a2, a3)# initialize x, y and z with a1, a2 and a3 respectivly 1.1.3 V(s) # initialize x, y and z with s[0], s[1] and s[2] respectivly 1.1.4 V() # initialize x, y and z with zeros 1.2 numerical behavior == 1.2.1.1 v1 + s - v3 1.2.1.2 s + v1 - v3 1.2.1.3 v += s 1.2.2.1 v1 - s - v3 1.2.2.2 s - v1 - v3 1.2.2.3 v -= s 1.2.3.1 v1 * a - v3 1.2.3.2 a * v1 - v3 1.2.3.3 v *= a 1.2.4.1 v1 / a - v3 1.2.4.2 v /= a 1.2.5.1 v1 // a - v3 1.2.5.2 v //= a 1.2.6.1 v1 % a - v3 1.2.6.2 v %= a 1.2.7.1 v * s - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.2.7.2 s * v - a # dot/scalar/inner product 1.2.8.1 +v1 - v2 # returns a new vector 1.2.8.2 -v1 - v2 1.3 sequence behavior = 1.3.1len(v) - 3 # fixed length 1.3.2.1 v[0] - a # 0-based indexing 1.3.2.2 v[0] = a 1.4 attributes == 1.4.0x, y, z (and w for 4th dimension)
Re: [pygame] API draft for vector type
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Casey Duncan ca...@pandora.com wrote: On Apr 27, 2009, at 6:16 PM, René Dudfield wrote: Would be nice if the vectors storage of things could be anything underneath. This would be useful to allow them to use pygame.Rect or numpy.array underneath. This means they can refer to a batch of vectors, but also operate only on a single vector at a time. +1, though there are performance vs. generality tradeoffs to be made. On the general side, a vector class could assume the underlying storage supports __getitem__, but the performance of this would suffer, I think too greatly. On the performance side, it could just have a pointer to an array of floats that it wraps with the vector api. I used this strategy with Lepton and the performance is great, but it is inflexible for the storage, and probably not very practical for totally general use across different storages. ah, that's an interesting point. We could have a few special cases for giving a buffer to use. Then as it's written in C, there will only be one pointer indirection. Wondering about why only 3 element vectors? 2,3, and 4 element ones are common? Is there a way to make a combined 2,3,4 type? Most operations can assume the higher dimensions are always zero, or the length could just be variable. But in either case the code would be slower than it would strictly need to be, since many operations would do more work than needed or would require loops where they would not be required for single purpose 2D, 3D or better vectors. What number types are used? eg, can you have a float vector, a long vector, an int vector? Any python number? A uint8 ? Seems to me like the most general number type would be a double, as it could comfortably support a wide range, does not generally have resolution issues like a 32-bit float can and performs well on modern hardware. It would also give consistent results compared to a python float, which is nice. I'm not sure what the use-case is for ints or (python) longs, the latter would probably gain little by being coded in C compared to pure python. Even in sprite-based 2D games, I find integers to be far too coarse for vector math, and operations like normalize become basically impossible. If you support multiple vector numeric types, than you have to confront a combinatorial explosion of type conversions and either duplicate, templatize or generalize the code in such a way that you trade either performance or maintainability or both. -Casey Yeah, indeed. Old numeric used to auto-generate most of its code for different types. Also there is vectypes written in python that generates it's code for all of the different types ( http://code.google.com/p/vectypes/ ). You want to use ints for precision I guess... and other use cases too. eg, using 8bit uints can mean massive memory savings (a vector can fit in one word)... and you can also use less instructions to process a vector.
[pygame] pygame.quit() not working after upgrade to python 2.6
Is there any reason pygame.quit() hangs the application up? I am running python 2.6 on Ubuntu. It works on python 2.6 in windows. What, if any information could I provide to help track down the culprite? -Thadeus http://thadeusb.com
Re: [pygame] API draft for vector type
hi again, a slightly related point... consider that pygame already works with big multidimensional vectors of a limited amount of types - this is Surface. However it is limited to 1, 2, 3, and 4 uint8 multi dimensional vectors. For these limited cases it is fairly fast. It should be possible to make some sorts of really basic particle systems with Surface I guess. Having one image for positions, one for direction vectors, one for lifetime etc. To update the movement each frame, you'd use: position_surf.blit(directions_surf, (0,0), special_flags=BLEND_ADD) Would still need a fast way to draw each particle based on the pixels in each surface. If pygames functions/methods took more arrays it could be possible... eg. a Surface.blit_multi which took a buffer of destination rects. On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Casey Duncan ca...@pandora.com wrote: I have found this to be generally true as well, and storing a large number of individual vector objects to be operated on in a batch performs poorly regardless of implementation language. As an example, for Lepton I coded a controller object which looped over a large number of particles to update their velocities. Under the covers the particles are stored as a simple array of C structs, but you can iterate them and access the individual vectors for position, velocity, etc. from python. To make a long story short, the python version of the code that iterated and updated the velocities by manipulating vector objects was about 1600x slower than the equivalent C code that did the same using inline vector functions. psyco sped up the python code almost 5x, but it still was no contest. This is definitely an extreme case, but one relevant to game coding at least 8^) -Casey On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:24 PM, Daniel Jo wrote: I've pretty much abandoned the idea of vector classes in Python. I've tested various implementations: pure python classes (with and without __slots__), C++ exposed through Pyrex/Cython, tuples manipulated through add/mul/div/etc functions. . . Of these, C++ turned out to be the fastest, but faster by far than that was simply not using any structure at all. Store the components in tuples for convenience, but extract them and manipulated them individually for complex equations. Vector classes work well for convenience and code readability, but from a performance standpoint they aren't very useful. On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Brian Fisher br...@hamsterrepublic.com wrote: I don't see a 3 element vector type being useful from a pygame perspective. What pygame api anywhere even takes 3 element lists aside from colors? (which already have a special struct type thing) I'm not saying 3 element vectors don't have their uses - just that the seem to me to be a pretty random thing to have added to pygame, which is exclusively 2d in every interesting respect. It seems like the sort of thing to add that would add much more to the maintenance and testing cost of the pygame library than it would bring to the users as a whole. To put another way, there is no synergy between a 3 element vector class and pygame. Why would a 3 element vector class be better as part of pygame than not? what existing element of pygame is better or easier to use with a 3 element vector also being part of pygame? ...now a 2 element vector being part of pygame... rect could be better by making use of it, it could be used as an argument to the various functions that take 2 element lists, etc. etc ... and a 3 element vector (and quaternions and matrices) being part of pyOpenGL, that sounds great too... On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Lorenz Quack d...@amberfisharts.com wrote: Hello, I am interested in the inclusion of a vector and matrix types into pygame as suggested here [4]. In this email I want to propose a API for a vector module. I will for brevity only present the API for the types in three dimensions. The APIs for two or four dimensions should look analog. Also I enumerated every API for easier reference in discussions. Alternatives are denoted by lexical items (e.g. a) or b)) At the end I put together a small comparison to existing implementations. This is only a suggestion to spark discussion and provoke feedback. So throw in your 2 cents. sincerely yours //Lorenz PS: If this turns out to be of any value I will put something similar together for matrix types and quaternions. ** * API draft v1.0 * ** In the following I will use the notation: v, v1, v2, ... are vectors s, s1, s2, ... are objects implementing the sequences protocol (list, tuple, the proposed vector) a, a1, a2, ... are scalars (int, float) § 1 Vector type 1.1 Class name and constructor == 1.1.1 a) Vector3 b) Vector3d 1.1.2 V(a1, a2, a3)# initialize x, y and z with a1, a2 and a3
Re: [pygame] pygame.quit() not working after upgrade to python 2.6
Have you tried if event.type == pygame.QUIT: sys.exit() On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Thadeus Burgess thade...@thadeusb.comwrote: Is there any reason pygame.quit() hangs the application up? I am running python 2.6 on Ubuntu. It works on python 2.6 in windows. What, if any information could I provide to help track down the culprite? -Thadeus http://thadeusb.com
