Re: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
Frederick Polgardy Jr wrote: It sounds wonderful in theory, but it's completely impractical in reality. It's fairly easy to convert basic language constructs (if/else, while, switch, function decls, class decls, etc.), but just about anything else is going to involve classes and functions in other libraries, which involves either A) too much knowlege on the part of the translator of how other libraries are implemented, or B) copious amounts of translation rules and supporting modules. True, translating basic cpp constructs to python is pretty trivial (with appropriate scanner). But on your A and B points, at this moment I would have to say: not necessarily. You are only partially right, and some manual code massaging is to be expected (unfortunately). But at the end of the day, that's the task at hand, so you have to do what you have to do, no matter how painful, right? Cheers, Vio ___ PyKDE mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
Re: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
On 14-Mar-03 Frederick Polgardy Jr wrote: > Well, whereas SIP looks at SIP files (a stone's throw from the > C++ header file) and generates C++ bindings, I could imagine it > wouldn't be *extremely* painful to write a utility like SIP to > generate Boost code from the headers, or a slightly modified > version thereof, instead. Not saying I'm going to write it > myself :), but the point was only that the limitation > doesn't lie with Boost itself. Not having looked at Boost lately I'm not sure how difficult it would be, but it's probably doable. I guess my point was that sip already does this and Boost doesn't. > The bigger issue re: Qt/KDE is that I have no idea how you'd > handle the signal/slot mechanism without having preknowledge > about it, like SIP does. Again I'm not familiar enough with Boost to be certain, but it seems that Boost sits "on top of" the C++ code while sip calls into the C++ code - so, for example, Boost can handle templates more easily than sip can. Signal/slot handling might be easier too since at the C++ level Qt already knows how to do it - it might be just another method call to Boost. It seems to me the biggest difference though is that sip by design handles a comprehensive set of bindings over a number of versions very well, while Boost is designed more to add a Python feature to your C++ code. sip excels at PyQt and PyKDE, but for a lot of applications sip is overkill and Boost is probably more suitable. Jim ___ PyKDE mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
Re: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
It sounds wonderful in theory, but it's completely impractical in reality.
It's fairly easy to convert basic language constructs (if/else, while,
switch, function decls, class decls, etc.), but just about anything else is
going to involve classes and functions in other libraries, which involves
either A) too much knowlege on the part of the translator of how other
libraries are implemented, or B) copious amounts of translation rules and
supporting modules.
Fred
On Thursday 13 March 2003 07:24 pm, you wrote:
> Jim Bublitz wrote:
> >I took him to mean he wanted to translate (line for line) C++ into
> >python, for example:
> >
> >if (something)
> >{
> > x = 1
> > y = 2
> >}
> >
> >to
> >
> >if something:
> >x = 1
> >y = 2
>
> Exactly. Well, for the time being, writing such a scanner isn't "too"
> painful, at least with the tool I'm using right now (Plex1.1.4), only,
> of course, if somebody already handled this problem before me somehow, I
> would hate to re-invent the wheel once again :)
--
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Bodacion Technologies
18-3 E Dundee Road - Suite 300 - Barrington, IL 60010
Phone: 847/842.9008 - Fax: 847/842-1731
Web: http://www.bodacion.com
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Re: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
Well, whereas SIP looks at SIP files (a stone's throw from the C++ header file) and generates C++ bindings, I could imagine it wouldn't be *extremely* painful to write a utility like SIP to generate Boost code from the headers, or a slightly modified version thereof, instead. Not saying I'm going to write it myself :), but the point was only that the limitation doesn't lie with Boost itself. The bigger issue re: Qt/KDE is that I have no idea how you'd handle the signal/slot mechanism without having preknowledge about it, like SIP does. Fred On Thursday 13 March 2003 10:00 pm, Jim Bublitz wrote: > I've looked at it (and argued with David Abrams on comp.lang.python > a little) but never tried it. Boost has some advantages over sip, > especially if you only want to bind a few functions, have a lot of > templates, or like writing C++. The drawbacks (in the context of > of a large project like PyKDE anyway) is that it requires a lot of > handwritten code, more knowledge of what the code actually does, > looks difficult to automate, and would be difficult to maintain over > a number of versions (right now PyQt supports everything from Qt1.42 > onward, and PyKDE supports KDE 2.1.1 onward, each with a single > file set). Can't say as far as performance, but it seems like Boost > should be pretty fast and perhaps a little smaller in binary size. -- F R E D E R I C K P O L G A R D Y J R. Bodacion Technologies 18-3 E Dundee Road - Suite 300 - Barrington, IL 60010 Phone: 847/842.9008 - Fax: 847/842-1731 Web: http://www.bodacion.com ___ PyKDE mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
Re: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
Jim Bublitz wrote:
On 14-Mar-03 Frederick Polgardy Jr wrote:
Well that's essentially what SIP is, although it's more than just
cpp->pyqt/kde, it's cpp->python in general.
I took him to mean he wanted to translate (line for line) C++ into
python, for example:
if (something)
{
x = 1
y = 2
}
to
if something:
x = 1
y = 2
Exactly. Well, for the time being, writing such a scanner isn't "too"
painful, at least with the tool I'm using right now (Plex1.1.4), only,
of course, if somebody already handled this problem before me somehow, I
would hate to re-invent the wheel once again :)
Cheers,
Vio
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Re: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
Thanks for the Boost tip. Am looking into it as I write this. Ok, perhaps I should have been more specific, more like: anyone aware of a tool for converting cpp 'source code' to python (or pyqt or pykde) 'source code', the tool itself ideally written in python (though not necessarily, of course). Sorry for being so python-biased :) Vio Frederick Polgardy Jr wrote: Well that's essentially what SIP is, although it's more than just cpp->pyqt/kde, it's cpp->python in general. Along the same lines, has anybody checked out Boost.Python by any chance? It's pretty awesome. The folks at Boost are insane. http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html Fred On Thursday 13 March 2003 15:16, Vio wrote: On conversion tools topic, I am also writing a tool to convert more broadly cpp -> pyqt/pykde (don't ask me why I need that :). Reading your post, the thought occured that I may be reinventing the wheel right now. Hence, anybody aware if such a cpp2py tool already exists? Secondly, I'd also like to have a look at your 'h2sip' tool, if posible. Cheers, Vio ___ PyKDE mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
Re: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
On 14-Mar-03 Frederick Polgardy Jr wrote:
> Well that's essentially what SIP is, although it's more than just
> cpp->pyqt/kde, it's cpp->python in general.
I took him to mean he wanted to translate (line for line) C++ into
python, for example:
if (something)
{
x = 1
y = 2
}
to
if something:
x = 1
y = 2
which is not what sip does. Sip provides an interface to C++ libs
on the binary level - it has no idea what's in the cpp code, but
only knows what the call/return interface to the code is (hence sip
only needs to look at the h files, not the cpp files - mostly). The
bindings sip produces are in C++, not Python.
> Along the same lines, has anybody checked out Boost.Python by any
> chance? It's pretty awesome. The folks at Boost are insane.
> http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html
I've looked at it (and argued with David Abrams on comp.lang.python
a little) but never tried it. Boost has some advantages over sip,
especially if you only want to bind a few functions, have a lot of
templates, or like writing C++. The drawbacks (in the context of
of a large project like PyKDE anyway) is that it requires a lot of
handwritten code, more knowledge of what the code actually does,
looks difficult to automate, and would be difficult to maintain over
a number of versions (right now PyQt supports everything from Qt1.42
onward, and PyKDE supports KDE 2.1.1 onward, each with a single
file set). Can't say as far as performance, but it seems like Boost
should be pretty fast and perhaps a little smaller in binary size.
Jim
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Re: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
Well that's essentially what SIP is, although it's more than just cpp->pyqt/kde, it's cpp->python in general. Along the same lines, has anybody checked out Boost.Python by any chance? It's pretty awesome. The folks at Boost are insane. http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html Fred On Thursday 13 March 2003 15:16, Vio wrote: > On conversion tools topic, I am also writing a tool to convert more > broadly cpp -> pyqt/pykde (don't ask me why I need that :). Reading your > post, the thought occured that I may be reinventing the wheel right now. > Hence, anybody aware if such a cpp2py tool already exists? > > Secondly, I'd also like to have a look at your 'h2sip' tool, if posible. > > Cheers, > Vio ___ PyKDE mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
Re: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
On 13-Mar-03 Vio wrote: > On conversion tools topic, I am also writing a tool to convert > more broadly cpp -> pyqt/pykde (don't ask me why I need that :). > Reading your post, the thought occured that I may be > reinventing the wheel right now. Hence, anybody aware if such a > cpp2py tool already exists? I haven't ever looked for one - not aware of any. > Secondly, I'd also like to have a look at your 'h2sip' tool, if > posible. Sure. I'll package up a tarball (and try to remember to put switches around the KDE specific stuff) and write up a brief README. I'll try to get to it this weekend. It uses a handwritten predictive parser, and the tokenizer is subclassed from the Python Tokenizer module. I've found it pretty easy to extend/modify, but then again it's my code - YMMV. It might be possible to extend it to cpp, but the stuff that handles expressions and preprocessor stuff is really crappy at the moment (don't need much of that for PyKDE h files fortunately). The way it stores data would be a nightmare for translating code (you can't really look up a symbol in the symbol table very easily, for example, unless you already know its scope, version, signature, etc). However, that stuff is pretty well decoupled from the parser and could be replaced without a lot of trouble. Without giving it a lot of thought, I'd look at outputting some intermediate code (like XML) and then working from that. The tarball will probably run about 130K after endoding for email. If you can't handle an attachment that size, let me know. Otherwise I'll send you a copy in a few days. If anyone else is curious, let me know. This isn't high quality software at the moment. Jim ___ PyKDE mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
Re: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
On conversion tools topic, I am also writing a tool to convert more broadly cpp -> pyqt/pykde (don't ask me why I need that :). Reading your post, the thought occured that I may be reinventing the wheel right now. Hence, anybody aware if such a cpp2py tool already exists? Secondly, I'd also like to have a look at your 'h2sip' tool, if posible. Cheers, Vio Jim Bublitz wrote: On 13-Mar-03 Hubbard, Dwight wrote: I've been looking at trying to generate python bindings for the libmyth library which is part of the mythtv pvr project ( http://www.mythtv.org) I was wondering if there where any tools to automate the generation of the .sip files from the .h files instead of doing it manually? Almost. I have a tool in development that does automatic h->sip conversion, as well has generating the build scripts and writing some of the docs. I'm using it to generate the next PyKDE version and it's essentially complete enough to do that (ignoring the occasional bug that still pops up now and then). I haven't tried it on anything except PyKDE, so I'm sure there'll be problems with it, particularly in generating the build stuff. I took a quick look at the libmyth sources and only see one problem - one of the h files has a "using" statement, which is one of the few things I'm not planning on supporting. You'd have to add explicit scoping manually to the variables covered by that statement. I didn't see any place where you'd need to hand write any C++ code for sip, but I only took a quick look. I also didn't check to see what beyond the libmyth h files you'd need sip files for. If libmyth references objects in other libs, you'd need to bind those too or else hide the references somehow (Qt isn't a problem however). The other nice feature of this tool and sip is that they handle versioning - you can build a new set of sip files from the previous version's sip files and the new h files. It looks like this project will be changing fairly rapidly at the moment. If you have a strong urge to be a guinea pig for undocumented and probably somewhat buggy incomplete software, I can send you a tarball (it's all in Python). Basically all you should need to do is create a project file (assuming it works). You'd also need Python 2.2.2, sip 3.5 and PyQt 3.5 (since libmyth is Qt based). This is far from releaseable, but works pretty well. If it works, you'd have sip files in about 20 seconds (all of PyKDE takes about 3 1/2 minutes). There's a strong chance this will be completely useless to you. Otherwise, I can take a look at it myself when I get some time. Jim ___ PyKDE mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde ___ PyKDE mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
RE: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
I took a second very quick look at the libmyth sources, and there's good news and bad news: the good news is the "using" statement is for 'std' (always make me think of "sexually transmitted disease"), so you won't have to do any explicit scoping. The bad new is that you'll have to hand write mapped type code for all instances of templates from std (but only if they're public or protected - you can ignore all of the private stuff). It's not that hard to do though, and instead of vector<> you'll get a Python list in the bindings. Jim ___ PyKDE mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
RE: [PyKDE] Any tools to generate sip files?
On 13-Mar-03 Hubbard, Dwight wrote: > I've been looking at trying to generate python bindings for the > libmyth > library which is part of the mythtv pvr project ( > http://www.mythtv.org) > I was wondering if there where any tools to automate the > generation of the .sip files from the .h files instead of doing > it manually? Almost. I have a tool in development that does automatic h->sip conversion, as well has generating the build scripts and writing some of the docs. I'm using it to generate the next PyKDE version and it's essentially complete enough to do that (ignoring the occasional bug that still pops up now and then). I haven't tried it on anything except PyKDE, so I'm sure there'll be problems with it, particularly in generating the build stuff. I took a quick look at the libmyth sources and only see one problem - one of the h files has a "using" statement, which is one of the few things I'm not planning on supporting. You'd have to add explicit scoping manually to the variables covered by that statement. I didn't see any place where you'd need to hand write any C++ code for sip, but I only took a quick look. I also didn't check to see what beyond the libmyth h files you'd need sip files for. If libmyth references objects in other libs, you'd need to bind those too or else hide the references somehow (Qt isn't a problem however). The other nice feature of this tool and sip is that they handle versioning - you can build a new set of sip files from the previous version's sip files and the new h files. It looks like this project will be changing fairly rapidly at the moment. If you have a strong urge to be a guinea pig for undocumented and probably somewhat buggy incomplete software, I can send you a tarball (it's all in Python). Basically all you should need to do is create a project file (assuming it works). You'd also need Python 2.2.2, sip 3.5 and PyQt 3.5 (since libmyth is Qt based). This is far from releaseable, but works pretty well. If it works, you'd have sip files in about 20 seconds (all of PyKDE takes about 3 1/2 minutes). There's a strong chance this will be completely useless to you. Otherwise, I can take a look at it myself when I get some time. Jim ___ PyKDE mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
