Re: [pypy-dev] Thinking about the GIL
In a message of Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:18:07 +1100, William ML Leslie writes: Where did you want this discussion to go, Laura? It looks like you wanted to talk about the specific problems that need to be dealt with while removing the GIL, but it seems to have disintegrated into the same concurrency model X is better than concurrency model Y free for all that regularly seems to happen on this list. Regardless of the API that runtimes written with the translation toolkit may provide, getting rid of the GIL is a precursor to the implementations of most of these models. -- William Leslie I'm at a Sprint at PyCON, as are many of the people I think would be best at answering these specific questions. So it is not surprising that they are not answering them now. I, myself, am personally interested in finding out how languages I have never looked at do these things, because I expect it to influence how one gets rid of the GIL. I was hoping to have an insight as to how one could avoid going the route of reimplementing fine grained locks everywhere, pervasively, all through the codebase. But all I am seeing now is more evidence that this is impossible. Laura ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] Thinking about the GIL
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:30 AM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:18:07 +1100, William ML Leslie writes: Where did you want this discussion to go, Laura? It looks like you wanted to talk about the specific problems that need to be dealt with while removing the GIL, but it seems to have disintegrated into the same concurrency model X is better than concurrency model Y free for all that regularly seems to happen on this list. Regardless of the API that runtimes written with the translation toolkit may provide, getting rid of the GIL is a precursor to the implementations of most of these models. -- William Leslie I'm at a Sprint at PyCON, as are many of the people I think would be best at answering these specific questions. So it is not surprising that they are not answering them now. I, myself, am personally interested in finding out how languages I have never looked at do these things, because I expect it to influence how one gets rid of the GIL. I was hoping to have an insight as to how one could avoid going the route of reimplementing fine grained locks everywhere, pervasively, all through the codebase. But all I am seeing now is more evidence that this is impossible. Laura I think it would be cool to have something to point people to in the docs, a page describing why pypy has a gil and what would it take to remove it. I would like to see a clear separation on what steps is needed to make RPython threadsafe (ie. fixing gc choosing and implementing a concurrency model) and what would it take to make the pypy-python interpreter not need a gil (choosing a maybe even different concurrency model and memory semantics, etc). -- Leonardo Santagada ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
[pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
Hi all, the deadlines for GSoc are approaching, and at some point we should probably make a blog post about that. But first, we need to 1) collect ideas for possible tasks and 2) find potential mentors. Two ideas that just came to my mind: - general work on speed.pypy.org (we need to define better what we want, of course) - improving the jitviewer, maybe integrating it with the profiler (when we'll have one :-)) - insert-your-idea-here :-) ciao, Anto ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
In a message of Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:09:19 +0100, Antonio Cuni writes: Hi all, the deadlines for GSoc are approaching, and at some point we should proba bly make a blog post about that. But first, we need to 1) collect ideas for possible tasks and 2) find potential mentors. Two ideas that just came to my mind: - general work on speed.pypy.org (we need to define better what we want , of course) - improving the jitviewer, maybe integrating it with the profiler (when w e'll have one :-)) - insert-your-idea-here :-) ciao, Anto 3.x conversions -- a) write an interpreter b) do the fiddly bits needed to integrate the new interpreter with our codebase c) get the 3.whatever tests to pass I think this is too much work for one SoC student, but maybe not if it was set up as 2 projects, one of which stared after the other did. I am not sure how SoC is being handles for people who live in the Southern hemisphere and who go to classes in June, July, etc. ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
[pypy-dev] phb impression from speed.pypy.org
Hello, I really love the improvements to the clearity of speed.pypy.org In the last days I have dropped some times on that page, nd... although I read the description and understand it, what my mind FIRST processes from the How has PyPy performance evolved over time? picture is that performance got worse Yes; right after that I read the small print of smaller is better. But still... my eyes tell me it got worse. Would it be possible to think of a presentation that allows to GROW those elements? Having a measurement comparable to transaction per second; or whatever-stones. Or just project the 1/x of every measurment ... just the subconcious thinks something shrinking is not sexy. There is allways the experience with wow, you have grown so much ... nobody tells their (shrinking) elders wow, you have shrunken so much... Another small point: The headline is ...over time, but the x-axis shows over versions. If I call correctly, the delta-t between release of cpython 2.6.2 to pypy1.3 is different form dt(1.3,1.4) is different from dt(1.4,trunk) As much as I remember, the speedup is speeding up ... Would such changes be possible? Does someone else think they may be positive? harald -- GHUM GmbH Harald Armin Massa Spielberger Straße 49 70435 Stuttgart 0173/9409607 Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 734971 - persuadere. et programmare ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] *Rant* No Reply-To?
On 03/16/2011 10:53 AM Timothy Baldridge wrote: Why is there no Reply-To in the headers on this list? Whenever, in gmail, I hit reply it automatically sets the to address to the from field in the mailing list e-mail. So I end up e-mailing the person directly instead of the list. This is highly frustrating. Timothy I am using Thunderbird on Linux, and this is a reply-all to your post received as a plain email (as opposed to using the newsgroup interface of Thunderbird, which is also available, e.g. via gmane). There is also a plain reply and a reply-list option. I will save this and the result of the other options as drafts, and extract the headers, so you can see what it did. First this email: ___ From - Wed Mar 16 22:42:08 2011 X-Mozilla-Status: X-Mozilla-Status2: X-Mozilla-Keys: FCC: mailbox://b...@mail.oz.net/Sent X-Identity-Key: id1 Message-ID:4d819f30.1090...@oz.net Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:42:08 -0700 From: Bengt Richterb...@oz.net X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; DSN=0; uuencode=0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.11) Gecko/20101013 Thunderbird/3.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timothy Baldridgetbaldri...@gmail.com CC: pypy-dev@codespeak.net Subject: Re: [pypy-dev] *Rant* No Reply-To? References:AANLkTinz_k90Jk08u2B=-4N5ykDqa6sPwhL=ev0hb...@mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To:AANLkTinz_k90Jk08u2B=-4N5ykDqa6sPwhL=ev0hb...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _ Next, headers for plain plain reply: From - Wed Mar 16 22:46:45 2011 X-Mozilla-Status: X-Mozilla-Status2: X-Mozilla-Keys: FCC: mailbox://b...@mail.oz.net/Sent X-Identity-Key: id1 Message-ID:4d81a045.9080...@oz.net Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:46:45 -0700 From: Bengt Richterb...@oz.net X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; DSN=0; uuencode=0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.11) Gecko/20101013 Thunderbird/3.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timothy Baldridgetbaldri...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [pypy-dev] *Rant* No Reply-To? References:AANLkTinz_k90Jk08u2B=-4N5ykDqa6sPwhL=ev0hb...@mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To:AANLkTinz_k90Jk08u2B=-4N5ykDqa6sPwhL=ev0hb...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ___ Next, headers resulting from reply-list: From - Wed Mar 16 22:49:10 2011 X-Mozilla-Status: X-Mozilla-Status2: X-Mozilla-Keys: FCC: mailbox://b...@mail.oz.net/Sent X-Identity-Key: id1 Message-ID:4d81a0d6.7090...@oz.net Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:49:10 -0700 From: Bengt Richterb...@oz.net X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; DSN=0; uuencode=0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.11) Gecko/20101013 Thunderbird/3.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pypy-dev@codespeak.net Subject: Re: [pypy-dev] *Rant* No Reply-To? References:AANLkTinz_k90Jk08u2B=-4N5ykDqa6sPwhL=ev0hb...@mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To:AANLkTinz_k90Jk08u2B=-4N5ykDqa6sPwhL=ev0hb...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ___ Does gmail not have similar reply options? PS. The source of your incoming post as email, so you know what Thunderbird used to generate the reply options: ### From - Wed Mar 16 10:58:14 2011 X-Account-Key: account2 X-UIDL: 0C777EF62BB7 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: X-Mozilla-Keys: X-Eon-Dm: dm34 Return-Path:pypy-dev-boun...@codespeak.net Received: from codespeak.net (88.198.193.90 [88.198.193.90]) by dm34.mta.everyone.net (EON-INBOUND) with ESMTP id dm34.4d751061.1bddd2b forb...@oz.net; Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:53:51 -0700 Received: from codespeak.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by codespeak.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198A7282BD6; Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:53:48 +0100 (CET) X-Original-To: pypy-dev@codespeak.net Delivered-To: pypy-dev@codespeak.net Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by codespeak.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81F28282B9D forpypy-dev@codespeak.net; Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:53:45 +0100 (CET) Received: by iwn33 with SMTP id 33so3148560iwn.27 forpypy-dev@codespeak.net; Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:53:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.43.51.65 with SMTP id vh1mr374043icb.435.1300298024183; Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.223.9 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 12:53:44 -0500
Re: [pypy-dev] *Rant* No Reply-To?
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 3:04 AM, Bengt Richter b...@oz.net wrote: Does gmail not have similar reply options? Nope, also Mail.app doesn't have reply-list also. PS. The source of your incoming post as email, so you know what Thunderbird used to generate the reply options: Which doesn't contain the List-to header that wooz talked about. -- Leonardo Santagada ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] phb impression from speed.pypy.org
Smaller is better when you are dieting. Or when you are racing. Given that there is talk that we will measure memory size as well, and turn into performance.pypy.org then I think that the 'smaller is better' idea will be well understood. As a practical matter, making 'faster' be 'bigger' doesn't make sense in terms of benchmarks, in which you want to be the first to finish. Laura ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
My ideas, take the ones you guys like and don't bother if some are too hard or the pypy team is not interested: 1 - Some pypy compatibility site, like the one brett made for python 3 2 - Rework pypy website to make it pretty and more organized, maybe migrate or integrate bitbucket wiki with the rest of the docs 3 - make a killer app for pypy: either make mercurial/bzr or django faster on pypy to get more users 4 - Finish faster ctypes, make a cython/swig backend 5 - stackless on pypy with jit 6 - make an embeding api (for mod_wsgi and uWSGI) 7 - make pypy on .net jit work (or on java) 8 - better mac os or windows support (or strange unix like aix and [net|open|free]bsd) 9 - Port ZODB or other less complex c extension to pypy/ctypes (pycripto) 10 - ultra fast pickle (nice for everyone specially to incentive zodb to be ported) 11 - make the 64bit jit better (IIRC it was not as great as it could be) 12 - powerpc jit 13 - better GC On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:09:19 +0100, Antonio Cuni writes: Hi all, the deadlines for GSoc are approaching, and at some point we should proba bly make a blog post about that. But first, we need to 1) collect ideas for possible tasks and 2) find potential mentors. Two ideas that just came to my mind: - general work on speed.pypy.org (we need to define better what we want , of course) - improving the jitviewer, maybe integrating it with the profiler (when w e'll have one :-)) - insert-your-idea-here :-) ciao, Anto 3.x conversions -- a) write an interpreter b) do the fiddly bits needed to integrate the new interpreter with our codebase c) get the 3.whatever tests to pass I think this is too much work for one SoC student, but maybe not if it was set up as 2 projects, one of which stared after the other did. I am not sure how SoC is being handles for people who live in the Southern hemisphere and who go to classes in June, July, etc. ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev -- Leonardo Santagada ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Leonardo Santagada santag...@gmail.com wrote: My ideas, take the ones you guys like and don't bother if some are too hard or the pypy team is not interested: 1 - Some pypy compatibility site, like the one brett made for python 3 I am interested to set up a site for PyPY. I have already created a similar site for Python 3: http://getpython3.net/ If this idea sound good, you can add one DNS A record pointing to this IP: 184.106.69.139 A sub-domain like http://compatibility.pypy.org/ would be fine. Otherwise you can provide me a hosting place also. BTW, the code is here: https://github.com/baijum/getpython3 (Flask app) Regards, Baiju M ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] *Rant* No Reply-To?
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Leonardo Santagada santag...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 3:04 AM, Bengt Richter b...@oz.net wrote: Does gmail not have similar reply options? Nope, also Mail.app doesn't have reply-list also. Gmail has Reply to all. Use that. I do every day. Last I looked over someone's shoulder using Mail.app, it did too. I'd be surprised to hear of a mail client that did not. As Bengt demonstrated by his choice to use it, reply-all is most often what you want instead of reply-list in any case. Greg ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
Hi, all. I'm interested in applying for GSoC this year. I'm talking to Miquel Torres about some stuff in Codespeed, but I don't know if it could be considered as PyPy project for GSoC. We're trying to allow Codespeed branch comparing, to check if a feature branch is getting faster than trunk. So, we'll see if a feature is really evolving. This would also affect speed.pypy.org. After that, we shall work on more stuff. So, could Codespeed improvements be considered as PyPy GSoC projects? Laura, I'm from Brazil and was a GSoC student in 2009 for Cython. I had about only 1 month free of college (June~July), but I completed what I promised without problems caused by college. So, I guess people from south hemisphere can handle with it, if they dedicate themselves :) 2011/3/17 Baiju M baiju.m.m...@gmail.com: On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Leonardo Santagada santag...@gmail.com wrote: My ideas, take the ones you guys like and don't bother if some are too hard or the pypy team is not interested: 1 - Some pypy compatibility site, like the one brett made for python 3 I am interested to set up a site for PyPY. I have already created a similar site for Python 3: http://getpython3.net/ If this idea sound good, you can add one DNS A record pointing to this IP: 184.106.69.139 A sub-domain like http://compatibility.pypy.org/ would be fine. Otherwise you can provide me a hosting place also. BTW, the code is here: https://github.com/baijum/getpython3 (Flask app) Regards, Baiju M ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev -- - Danilo Freitas ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
[pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
Work on numpy/scipy integration. That will really help pypy be more useful to people in the scientific and A.I. communities.. -- Gary Robinson CTO Emergent Discovery, LLC personal email: gary...@me.com work email: grobin...@emergentdiscovery.com Company: http://www.emergentdiscovery.com Blog:http://www.garyrobinson.net ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
Hi Anto, - insert-your-idea-here :-) the Reflex work has at one time before been proposed as a GSoC. Now that a prototype is in place, there are several minor tasks that can be done, which can lead to bigger/more research tasks as desired/appropriate. How does this work anyway, do you need to come with your own student? Best regards, Wim -- wlavrij...@lbl.gov--+1 (510) 486 6411--www.lavrijsen.net ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
[pypy-dev] Documentation sprint at PyCon
Laura, me, and others sprinted on documentation cleanups at PyCon, using https://bitbucket.org/dmalcolm/pypy-dmalcolm as a development branch. Laura and Armin just merged the changes from that repo Significant changes are: - the Sphinxification of the docs - the renaming of the sources from .txt to .rst, to play better with text editors with smarts for rst - organizing the documentation, to try to stress the high-important up-to-date material, whilst moving the more out-of-date materials to a clearly-marked annex (see cleanup.rst). Running: make html within pypy/docs should now generate the documentation part of the site. You can also use: make linkcheck to check links; we believe we've fixed all internal links, but some external links are still broken. There's a nasty hack for pointing at sources which you can see in: https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/changeset/c6f7ecf2dc01 but fixing this properly looks like we would need to write a new sphinx plugin; as it is, it works, but is ugly at the rst level. Going forward, our idea is that http://docs.pypy.org ought to point at the sphinx-generated html, and the development link on pypy.org should point to docs.pypy.org (moving another thing off of codespeak). The folks at readthedocs.org have offered hosting space, and can keep http://pypy.readthedocs.org up-to-date with a nightly build of the documentation. They have some docs on setting up a CNAME for this: http://read-the-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/alternate_domains.html#cname-support so that docs.pypy.org can be set up to point there. Currently that site has an out-of-date build of my bitbucket branch I mentioned at the top of this mail (and there've been a lot of changes since then). Someone will need to sync up with the readthedocs folks to make their site points at the correct bitbucket repo, and to ensure that it's getting regularly rebuilt Hope this makes sense and is helpful. Dave ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Dan Stromberg drsali...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Leonardo Santagada santag...@gmail.com wrote: 7 - make pypy on .net jit work (or on java) This reminds me: it might be good to make the JVM PyPy be able to call native Java code - on a typical JRE, and on Android. Last I heard, on Android people were using a CPython port, which reportedly requires a stub for the various Android library calls that're written in what-is-essentially-Java. What I was told is that the Ruby port to Android gives much better API access, because they started with a Ruby that runs on a JVM. I think dalvik and jme don't support compiling during runs, so no jit, then I think making jython (which also needs compilation at runtime) work on dalvik seems like a better idea. Also, on the matter of performance testing, coming up with a bunch of tests that run unmodified on a large number of Python interpreters might be included - though perhaps that goes without saying. This is part of the gsoc to implement a speed.python.org (so it is a great idea, but it is not a pypy gsoc). -- Leonardo Santagada ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
[pypy-dev] GC Tuning script values
Just installed PyPy on my Macbook Pro per Bob Ippolito's instructions. Very easy! Here's a link to my tuning values http://a.libpa.st/hMGxQ. In short with a dual cure i5 w/ 3MB L3 the following were fastest: 1 CPU: 2M 2 CPU: 768K 3 CPU: 768K 4 CPU: 512K Congrats on the hard work, everyone. I'm very excited to start testing some of our own code with pypy.___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
On 17/03/11 21:25, Dan Stromberg wrote: On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Leonardo Santagada santag...@gmail.com mailto:santag...@gmail.com wrote: 7 - make pypy on .net jit work (or on java) this is probably a too large task for GSoc. For one, before working on the JIT it is necessary to make normal translation working, because right now ootype backends are broken. IIRC, it's not too hard because it consists of porting virtualrefs to ootype, which should be simple. But it is possible that there are other issues after that, since ootype translations have not run since a long time (more than 1 year, I think). About the JIT: JIT on .NET is not going to be any fast. I did it for my thesis when the JIT was more .NET friendly (no virtualrefs) and results were interesting as a research project, but not good enough to be used in production. The JIT for pypy-jvm is an open topic: the JVM has the potential to do a much better job than the CLI, but we cannot know until we really try. Having a working pypy-jvm-jit is a lot of work, though. It consists of: 1) make pypy-jvm (without jit) working again 2) design and implement a way to use Java objects at RPython level: this is needed to write the backend 3) port the JIT to ootype again. Should not be too hard, but there are going to be issues, because the codewriter has been heavily refactored since last year, when the JIT on ootype worked well 4) write the backend All together, it's probably huge for GSoc. But e.g 1+2 could fit it; we already had a GSoc on this topic few years ago, but it didn't work well. This reminds me: it might be good to make the JVM PyPy be able to call native Java code - on a typical JRE, and on Android. Last yes, that's another interesting topic. It requires both points 1 and 2 above, though. Once we have that, it should not be too hard, as it has already been implemented for .NET and could use the same techniques (and probably reuse also most of the code). ciao, Anto ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
Hi Wim, On 17/03/11 19:33, wlavrij...@lbl.gov wrote: Hi Anto, - insert-your-idea-here :-) the Reflex work has at one time before been proposed as a GSoC. Now that a prototype is in place, there are several minor tasks that can be done, which can lead to bigger/more research tasks as desired/appropriate. good idea! How does this work anyway, do you need to come with your own student? not necessarily. At this stage, the goal is to collect ideas which are reasonable, then publish it and see which students are interested in them. However, nothing stops you to suggest a student of course (especially if you already know him and you are confident that can do the job well). ciao, Anto ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Danilo Freitas dsurvi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, all. I'm interested in applying for GSoC this year. I'm talking to Miquel Torres about some stuff in Codespeed, but I don't know if it could be considered as PyPy project for GSoC. We're trying to allow Codespeed branch comparing, to check if a feature branch is getting faster than trunk. So, we'll see if a feature is really evolving. This would also affect speed.pypy.org. After that, we shall work on more stuff. So, could Codespeed improvements be considered as PyPy GSoC projects? Laura, I'm from Brazil and was a GSoC student in 2009 for Cython. I had about only 1 month free of college (June~July), but I completed what I promised without problems caused by college. So, I guess people from south hemisphere can handle with it, if they dedicate themselves :) Hi. That would definitely be considered PyPy project. One ideas that I have in mind is to create speed.python.org - a place where a whole lot of different implementations can be run. This requires improvements to both our benchmark infrastructure and codespeed itself. 2011/3/17 Baiju M baiju.m.m...@gmail.com: On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Leonardo Santagada santag...@gmail.com wrote: My ideas, take the ones you guys like and don't bother if some are too hard or the pypy team is not interested: 1 - Some pypy compatibility site, like the one brett made for python 3 I am interested to set up a site for PyPY. I have already created a similar site for Python 3: http://getpython3.net/ If this idea sound good, you can add one DNS A record pointing to this IP: 184.106.69.139 A sub-domain like http://compatibility.pypy.org/ would be fine. Otherwise you can provide me a hosting place also. BTW, the code is here: https://github.com/baijum/getpython3 (Flask app) Regards, Baiju M ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev -- - Danilo Freitas ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
torsdag 17 mars 2011 22.30.05 skrev Antonio Cuni: Hi Wim, On 17/03/11 19:33, wlavrij...@lbl.gov wrote: Hi Anto, - insert-your-idea-here :-) the Reflex work has at one time before been proposed as a GSoC. Now that a prototype is in place, there are several minor tasks that can be done, which can lead to bigger/more research tasks as desired/appropriate. good idea! How does this work anyway, do you need to come with your own student? not necessarily. At this stage, the goal is to collect ideas which are reasonable, then publish it and see which students are interested in them. However, nothing stops you to suggest a student of course (especially if you already know him and you are confident that can do the job well). We should also note that mentors are the really scarce resource. If yoiu are willing to mentor a student, the chances of this being a GSoC project increases dramatically. Jacob Hallén ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
Hi Jacob, If yoiu are willing to mentor a student most definitely. the chances of this being a GSoC project increases dramatically. Great! Best regards, Wim -- wlavrij...@lbl.gov--+1 (510) 486 6411--www.lavrijsen.net ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
I'd like speed.python.org to become performance.python.org so we can measure memoryt consumption too. Laura ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] Thinking about the GIL
On Thu Mar 17 21:30 , Laura Creighton sent: In a message of Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:18:07 +1100, William ML Leslie writes: Where did you want this discussion to go, Laura? It looks like you wanted to talk about the specific problems that need to be dealt with while removing the GIL, but it seems to have disintegrated into the same concurrency model X is better than concurrency model Y free for all that regularly seems to happen on this list. Regardless of the API that runtimes written with the translation toolkit may provide, getting rid of the GIL is a precursor to the implementations of most of these models. -- William Leslie I'm at a Sprint at PyCON, as are many of the people I think would be best at answering these specific questions. So it is not surprising that they are not answering them now. I, myself, am personally interested in finding out how languages I have never looked at do these things, because I expect it to influence how one gets rid of the GIL. I was hoping to have an insight as to how one could avoid going the route of reimplementing fine grained locks everywhere, pervasively, all through the codebase. But all I am seeing now is more evidence that this is impossible. This may be a dumb question, but has anyone considered software transactional memory for this sort of thing? My experience comes from the implementation side of STM in a very different language to (R)Python, but it seems like this might be a reasonable fir for STM's strengths. The GIL gives you a serial execution order of bytecodes, with no particular guarantees about which order (because if it matters there should be application level concurrency control). Wrapping each bytecode in an STM transaction would give you an as-if-serial execution order, again with no guarantees about which order. You get transaction overheads instead of lock/unlock overheads, but some STM systems can be quite efficient for short transactions that rarely conflict. There'd be a lot of problems to solve, of course. But has anyone already considered this and figured out that it's impossible or impractical? -- Ben ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] Thinking about the GIL
On 18 March 2011 11:44, hyar...@iinet.net.au hyar...@iinet.net.au wrote: There'd be a lot of problems to solve, of course. But has anyone already considered this and figured out that it's impossible or impractical? My own fork of pypy will eventually use STM as an implementation technique, more or less, so we will get to find out first hand if it is practical, at least within an environment with a fine-grain effect system. -- William Leslie ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
[pypy-dev] gcbench run
Hello, In his post today, Bob Ippolito said the devs were interested in results from the gcbench run. Here's a gist with all of the data. Hope this is helpful. https://gist.github.com/874910 Thanks for the great work on PyPy, -- # Curt Micol ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] GC Tuning script values
Hi Chris, On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Chris Mulligan chris.mulli...@gmail.com wrote: Just installed PyPy on my Macbook Pro per Bob Ippolito's instructions. Very easy! Thanks for the feedback. The results make it clear that we should somehow tune the number according to the load of the machine -- picking up the right number for the load can easily make a 20% speed difference (at least on Mac OS X, but I strongly suspect the same is true on other platforms). Ideally, it should dynamically adapt its nursery size in order to minimize the cache misses. If anyone has a suggestion on how to implement that, preferably in a non-OS-specific way (e.g. by reading some x86 CPU counters), I'd welcome it :-) A bientôt, Armin. ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] GC Tuning script values
It also seems that about L3//4 is a pretty good number on both his machine and mine. Not optimal in the single core case but works well as load increases. Of course, single or four core machines could be wildly different. On Thursday, March 17, 2011, Armin Rigo ar...@tunes.org wrote: Hi Chris, On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Chris Mulligan chris.mulli...@gmail.com wrote: Just installed PyPy on my Macbook Pro per Bob Ippolito's instructions. Very easy! Thanks for the feedback. The results make it clear that we should somehow tune the number according to the load of the machine -- picking up the right number for the load can easily make a 20% speed difference (at least on Mac OS X, but I strongly suspect the same is true on other platforms). Ideally, it should dynamically adapt its nursery size in order to minimize the cache misses. If anyone has a suggestion on how to implement that, preferably in a non-OS-specific way (e.g. by reading some x86 CPU counters), I'd welcome it :-) A bientôt, Armin. ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] ideas for Google Summer of code
Hi Laura, On Mar 17, 2011 5:10 PM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: I'd like speed.python.org to become performance.python.org so we can measure memoryt consumption too. We should definitely measure memory consumption too, but speed.python.org has a nice rhythm to it - few syllables, quick to say - such that I think it might make sense to keep the name even so. To me, speed also suggests that it *is* fast, more so than performance suggests that the performance actually is good, as opposed to neutrally measuring it, whatever it is. I always thought speed.pypy.org quite a bold name, saying we are fast right there in the domain so nobody could miss the point. Maybe that last is just me, though. Greg ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
