[pypy-dev] [Jython-dev] [ANN] Python compilers workshop at SciPy this year (fwd)

[Laura Creighton]

This from the Jython mailing list.  Are we sending somebody?  It's the
first I heard about it, at any rate.

Laura

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From: Nathaniel Smith 
To: jython-...@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Jython-dev] [ANN] Python compilers workshop at SciPy this year

Hi Jython folks,

I wanted to give a heads-up to a workshop I'm organizing at SciPy this
year that might be of interest to you:

What: A two-day workshop bringing together folks working on JIT/AOT
compilation in Python.

When/where: July 11-12, in Austin, Texas.

(This is co-located with SciPy 2016, at the same time as the tutorial
sessions, just before the conference proper.)

Website: https://python-compilers-workshop.github.io/

Note that I anticipate that we'll be able to get sponsorship funding
to cover travel costs for folks who can't get their employers to foot
the bill.

Cheers,
- -n

- -- 
Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org

- --
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Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
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Re: [pypy-dev] Multiprocessing - CPython and PyPy

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:35:26 -0500, Luis José Novoa writes:
>Hi Maciej,
>
>Thanks for your reply. The problem is that Im using gurobipy (for the
>interaction with the mathematical programming solver Gurobi) to solve a
>master problem and then using the output to solve the subproblems. Now,
>gurobipy is not compatible wiith PyPy.

You've tried and it doesn't work?  Gorobipy wants numpy in order
to work, but the question is _how much numpy_?  If you are lucky,
the parts it needs are already in pypy's numpy support.

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] debugging extension segfault

[Laura Creighton]

>> Lastly what is the right way to get the platform as pypy not cpython?
>> --
>> Robin Becker

Maciej already answered the other stuff.  I had pypy working with 
reportlab a long time ago just by not using the C extensions at all.

Detecting pypy is a bit harder.
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0421/#version-format
was supposed to fix things


lac@smartwheels:~$ python3.5
Python 3.5.0rc1 (default, Aug 12 2015, 14:57:46) 
[GCC 5.2.1 20150808] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.implementation
namespace(_multiarch='x86_64-linux-gnu', cache_tag='cpython-35', 
hexversion=50659521, name='cpython', version=sys.version_info(major=3, minor=5, 
micro=0, releaselevel='candidate', serial=1))
 >>> 

Okay, you could fish around in that and get what you are looking for.

But

Python 2.7.10 (default, Jul  1 2015, 10:54:53) 
[GCC 4.9.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.implementation
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'implementation'

This won't.

So I just try to import __pypy__

If it succeeds, I have pypy, and if it doesn't I assume CPython.

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] PEP 0484 - the Numeric Tower

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:56:17 +0200, Laura Creighton writes:
>Any chance of adding Decimal to the list of things that are also
>acceptable for things annotated float?
>
>Laura

Grrr.  Meant to send that to python-dev.
Sorry for the noise.

Laura
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Re: [pypy-dev] Looking for clues to consistent Seg Fault in PyPy 2.6.1

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Sun, 11 Oct 2015 10:04:02 +0200, Armin Rigo writes:
>Hi Jeff,
>
>I will have a look, but first let me mention that lxml-cffi is much
>better supported (and faster) on pypy than lxml.  It is unmaintained
>though, so I guess it is getting out of date with lxml developments.
>
>
>A bientôt,
>
>Armin.

Has https://github.com/amauryfa/lxml/tree/lxml-cffi been renamed
to https://github.com/amauryfa/lxml/tree/cffi  ?
The first one now is 404 on github, despite being the first
google hit for lxml-cffi

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] close your files

[Laura Creighton]

If your code is new enough that it is written like this:

with open('output.txt', 'w') as f:
f.write('Stuff')

you don't have to worry, you will be fine.  The with statement will
handle the closing for you.

If you don't use many files, well things will still work.  It's sloppy,
but as long as you don't run out of file descriptors, you code will still
work.

If you use lots of files, and don't close them, and don't rely on
the with statement to close them for you ... you can run out.  Bad
things happen.

Laura
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Re: [pypy-dev] State of GUI toolkits with PyPy?

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:37:05 +0200, Armin Rigo writes:
>Hi Maciej,
>
>On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 6:08 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski  wrote:
>> I don't think this is true Laura, it shows up a lot in google searches
>
>I don't think you can argue against Laura's "most people I meet simply
>don't know that it is there", which is in all likelihood a truth about
>the people that Laura meets.  However what you said is also true: it
>does show up in various searches like "pypy gui".  I think we can only
>conclude that there are many people that don't have the idea of using
>google to do the same searches as we do.

And what they do is mail me and ask ...  This biases my sample, of
course.

Laura

>
>
>A bientôt,
>
>Armin.
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Re: [pypy-dev] State of GUI toolkits with PyPy?

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Sun, 20 Sep 2015 09:27:03 +0200, Armin Rigo writes:
>Nowadays you can, more and more often, go to the other project's
>website or PyPI page and see a mention about the PyPy compatibility
>status there.  But it doesn't help much when gathering a list of all
>GUI toolkits available (say).  So I would say that we should clean up
>from our wiki all projects with "not working" or "unknown" status (go
>check yourself what that project's PyPI page says), and then update it
>to contain at least Eric's list in the "GUI" section.  Does anyone
>feel like doing that?  If not, we will close down the wiki and add the
>list to the FAQ with a date.
>
>
>A bientôt,
>
>Armin.

I think the FAQ is better, unless we find a new way to really, really
advertise the wikis existence.  Because most people I meet simply don't
know that it is there.

Laura
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[pypy-dev] Python CI and CD support available on Semaphore (feedback appreciated) (fwd)

[Laura Creighton]

This showed up on python-list.  Should we try to get them to
make PyPy a supported Python?

Laura


--- Forwarded Message
Subject: Python CI and CD support available on Semaphore (feedback appreciated)
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Filip_Komnenovi=C4=87?= 

HI folks, 

We have recently launched Python support on our continuous integration
and deployment service and are looking for communities feedback. If
you're up for it, please give a test drive to our service with your
Python projects and give us your thoughts on what we could further
improve upon.

Official blog post announcing Python support: http://bit.ly/1KYrVsT
Our website: https://semaphoreci.com/

Thanks in advance!

BTW we offer free plans for open source projects and have limited free plans 
for private projects.
- -- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Re: [pypy-dev] Python CI and CD support available on Semaphore (feedback appreciated) (fwd)

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:36:49 +0200, Laura Creighton writes:
>This showed up on python-list.  Should we try to get them to
>make PyPy a supported Python?
>
>Laura

Ha!  PyPy is _already_ a supported system.  And Filip wants to know
if there is anything else he can do to make things easier for
PyPy developers and people who want to test packages against PyPy

Laura
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[pypy-dev] W3C web accessibility (WCAG 2.0)

[Laura Creighton]

Somebody mailed webmaster wanting to know how Python documentation
faired w.r.t. the WCAG 2.0 Standard. https://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag20

What he really wants to know is how hard is it for blind people to
read the docs, and whether significant whitespace is a problem for
blind python developers. I've referred him to some blind-users mailing
lists so he can ask real blind people those questions, but have we ever
tried to make the Python docs WCAG compliant?  And if we tried, is
there something we can direct interested people to?

Thanks very much,
Laura

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[pypy-dev] memory control in Python (fwd)

[Laura Creighton]

This showed up on python-list.
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-August/695441.html
(if you want to read his attatchments, but, grrr you need libreoffice
to read them).

Cursory googling for CPLEX indicates it's written in C++.

Do we have any joy for this man?

Laura

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Received: from mail.python.org (mail.python.org [82.94.164.166])
Subject: memory control in Python
From: Ping Liu yanzhiping...@gmail.com
To: python-l...@python.org

Dear All,

I am working on an optimization problem, where we are trying to minimize
some indicators like energy usage, energy cost, CO2 emission. In this
problem, we have a bunch of energy conversion technologies for electricity
and thermal purpose, such as heat pump, boiler, chiller, etc.. We are
trying to model it with a one year time period. the current time step is
one hour.

We have preselected the  candidate technologies to exclude those we don't
want to study so that the problem size could be reduced with a limited
candidate technologies. In the current case study, we only analyze the
electric chiller and heat pump to supply the cooling load, while power grid
will supply the electricity for all electric loads. There are binary
variables regarding installation decisions of technologies and continuous
variables related to installation capacity and hourly operational
decisions.

For small cases, Python works well. But if we consider longer time period.
then it would fail due to the memory usage issues. We have tested several
case studies to check the memory use for different time period, including
1) 2 hours in one day, 2) 24 hours in one day, 3) 20 days with 24 hours
each day, as well as 4) 30 days with 24 hours each day. The first 3 cases
are feasible while the last case gives out the memory error.

When we are testing the forth case, the memory error comes out while
creating the inequality constraints. The problem size is 1) Aeq: 12 * 26,
Aineq: 30 * 26; 2) Aeq: 144*268, Aineq:316*268; 3) Aeq: 2880*5284, Aineq:
6244*5284; 4) Aeq: 4320 * 7924, Aineq is unknown due to the memory error.

The solver is CPLEX (academic). It turns out that the solver is taking a
lot of memory as you can see in the memory test report. for the first three
cases, different memory usage is observed, and it grows up dramatically
with the increase of the time period. 1) solver memory usage: 25.6 MB, 2)
19.5 MB; 3) solver memory usage: 830.0742 MB.

Based on my observations, I have some of the following questions regarding
1) In order to create the optimization problem (Aeq, Aineq), how can we
reduce the memory usage in python programming?  2) how can I reduce the
memory usage of different solvers in Python? Why would the memory decrease
for the CPLEX solver within the 24-hours-in-one-day case compared with the
case 1?

Thanks in advance,
Ping

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[pypy-dev] is the handling of python signals a language implementation detail?

[Laura Creighton]

I am reading 18.8.1.1 and 18.8.1.2 in
https://docs.python.org/3/library/signal.html which clearly is written
from the CPython point of view.

A Python signal handler does not get executed inside the low-level
(C) signal handler. Instead, the low-level signal handler sets a flag
which tells the virtual machine to execute the corresponding Python
signal handler at a later point(for example at the next bytecode
instruction) ... Python signal handlers are always executed in the
main Python thread, even if the signal was received in another thread ...

But is this part of the language definition?  Or an implementation detail?

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] A simple file reading is 2x slow wrt CPython

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Mon, 29 Jun 2015 23:53:21 +0200, Ozan Çağlayan writes:
Well I tried again but cant reproduce it. BTW cut down the whole code to 4
seconds with PyPy vs 28 seconds on CPython. The original C++ code might be
slower than this, i'll check it.

Thanks for fast replies, contributions, kindness :)

You are welcome for the kindness.  Try to encourage it wherever you go.
So _very_ many things go better with kindness, and so many people think
that it is in some way beneath them to be kind, to our great sorrow.

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] A simple file reading is 2x slow wrt CPython

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Mon, 29 Jun 2015 21:40:38 +0200, Ozan Çağlayan writes:
Hi,

Yes I thought of the evident question and I think I can avoid keeping
everything in memory by doing two passes of the file.

Regarding __slots__, it seemed to help using CPython but pypy + slots
crashed/trashed in a very hardcore way :)

PyPy always compacts instances as if they had slots, so it should make
no difference.  If using it makes things crash, then we have a really
horrible bug -- can you post the smallest code that provokes this?
(Though my bet is that you have somehting else wrong, not the slots ...)

Laura

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[pypy-dev] Final CFP: 2015 Workshop on Exascale Multi/many Core Computing Systems (E-MuCoCoS) (fwd)

[Laura Creighton]

This showed up in python-list, of all places, apparantly posted to
comp.lang.python

In case somebody wants to go to Portugal in September.

Note: I am still a little hazy on what Exascale means, and therefore
if we do it. :)

Laura

--- Forwarded Message

From: SP sabri.pll...@gmail.com
Injection-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 09:51:23 +

To: python-l...@python.org

CALL FOR PAPERS

2015 Workshop on Exascale Multi/many Core Computing Systems (E-MuCoCoS)

- - Paper submission deadline: June 30, 2015 (firm deadline)
- - Workshop proceedings are published by the IEEE


* CONTEXT

Exascale computing will revolutionize computational science and
engineering by providing 1000x the capabilities of currently available
computing systems, while having a similar power footprint. The HPC
community is working towards the development of the first Exaflop
computer (expected around 2020) after reaching the Petaflop milestone
in 2008. There are concerns that computer designs based on existing
multi-core and many-core solutions will not scale to Exascale
considering technical challenges (such as, productivity, energy
consumption or reliability) and reasonable economic constraints.
Therefore, novel multi-core and many-core solutions are required to
reach Exascale.

E-MuCoCoS will be organized in conjunction with the 18th IEEE
Conference on Computational Science and Engineering (CSE 2015), Porto,
Portugal, October 21 - 23, 2015.

Previous editions of MuCoCoS workshop include: MuCoCoS 2014 (Porto,
PT), MuCoCoS 2013 (Edinburgh, UK), MuCoCoS 2012 (SLC, US), MuCoCoS
2011 (Seoul, KR), MuCoCoS 2010 (Krakow, PL), MuCoCoS 2009 (Fukuoka,
JP), MuCoCoS 2008 (Barcelona, ES).

* TOPICS OF INTEREST

E-MuCoCoS focuses on multi/many core languages, system software and
architectural solutions towards Exascale computing systems. The topics
of the workshop include but are not limited to:

:: Methods and tools for preparing applications for Exascale
:: Programming models, languages, libraries and compilation techniques
:: Run-time systems and hardware support
:: Patterns, algorithms and data structures
:: Performance analysis, modeling, optimization and tuning

* SUBMISSION GUIDELINES

- - The papers should be prepared using the IEEE format, and no longer
than 6 pages. Submitted papers will be carefully evaluated based on
originality, significance to workshop topics, technical soundness, and
presentation quality.
- - Submission of the paper implies that should the paper be accepted,
at least one of the authors will register and present the paper at the
workshop.
- - Please submit your paper (as PDF) electronically using the online
submission system https://easychair.org/conferences/?conf=emucocos2015

* IMPORTANT DATES

- - Submission: June 30, 2015 (firm deadline)
- - Notification: July 28, 2015
- - Camera ready: September 4, 2015
- - Registration: September 4, 2015
- - Workshop: October 20, 2015


* PROGRAM COMMITTEE

- - Erika Abraham, RWTH Aachen University (DE)
- - Siegfried Benkner, University of Vienna (AT)
- - Eduardo Cesar, UAB (ES)
- - Jiri Dokulil, University of Vienna, (AT)
- - Norbert Eicker, J�lich Supercomputing Centre (DE)
- - Franz Franchetti, Carnegie Mellon University (US)
- - Samir Genaim, Universidad Complutense de Madrid (ES)
- - Houcine Hassan, Universitat Politecnica de Valencia, (ES)
- - Atsushi Hori, RIKEN AICS (JP)
- - Einar Broch Johnsen, University of Oslo, (NO)
- - Christos Kartsaklis, Oak Ridge National Laboratory (US)
- - J�rg Keller, FernUniversit�t in Hagen (DE)
- - Christoph Kessler, Link�ping University (SE)
- - Joanna Kolodziej, Cracow University of Technology (PL)
- - Ivan Kondov, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (DE)
- - Erwin Laure, KTH/PDC (SE)
- - Renato Miceli, SENAI CIMATEC (BR)
- - Lasse Natvig, Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NO)
- - Dana Petcu, West University of Timisoara (RO)
- - Uwe Schwiegelshohn, TU Dortmund University (DE)
- - Achim Streit, Karlsruhe Institute for Technology (DE)
- - Osamu Tatebe, University of Tsukuba, (JP)
- - Josef Weidendorfer, TUM (DE)


* WORKSHOP CHAIR

- - Sabri Pllana, Linnaeus University, Sweden
http://homepage.lnu.se/staff/saplaa/

- -- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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[pypy-dev] Paper on the HOPE JIT for Python

[Laura Creighton]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213133714000687

I think some of our poor performance is because they never let the
jit warm up, but should we grab some of their benchmarks and
see if we can do better?

Laura
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Re: [pypy-dev] Freezing the .pypy-26.so name?

[Laura Creighton]

I think that we had better look at wheels.  I only thought
it was a better egg, which since I never thought eggs were a good
idea, I didn't worry about.  But looks like I was wrong.  I only
started to look at them yesterday, so I am likely full of
nonsense but looks like we could make a wheel that
doesn't need distutils.  Which I still only have found
the idea of, and not the code of, which I want to look at.
People who find relevant code, please mail me where this is.

Laura
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[pypy-dev] Allegro64 buildslave disappeared

[Laura Creighton]

Has this problem been resoved?
People are getting buildslaves on python.org for other things, so I
suspect we could have one if we just asked.

Laura  (who doesn't want to ask if the problem has been already
solved.)
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Re: [pypy-dev] Porting PyPy/rpython to Python 3

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Mon, 20 Apr 2015 10:15:52 +0200, Armin Rigo writes:
I think I still prefer the upgrade everything at once and forget
about Python 2 approach.

I worry that this will be slow.

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] Porting PyPy/rpython to Python 3

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:04:10 +0200, Armin Rigo writes:
Hi Laura,

On 20 April 2015 at 11:53, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote:
 I worry that this will be slow.

Slow at which level?  The final speed of some translated PyPy should
not be influenced, but maybe translation itself can become slower.
But then it would be good motivation to do performance improvements in
PyPy3, which would at that point gain one major user --- our own
translations.


A bientôt,

Armin.

I was worried about translation speed.

Laura
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Re: [pypy-dev] Porting PyPy/rpython to Python 3

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:28:19 +0200, Armin Rigo writes:
Ok.  Then yes, I think there should be little intrinsic reason for it
to be slower (apart from some bytes/unicodes changes, which should not
be too important in this case), and it would be a good excuse to focus
on the performance of PyPy3.


A bientôt,

Armin.

Sounds to me as if you are talking youself into it. ;)

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] http://speed.pypy.org/timeline/ -- show the code?

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:39:17 +0200, Armin Rigo writes:
Hi Laura,

On 12 April 2015 at 14:46, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote:
 I thought there was a way to show the code that was actually run to get
 the results.  Maybe I am confusing things with the pshootout site.  Have
 I just forgotten how to do this?

Yes, there is a way: from a page that shows one graph, like for example
http://speed.pypy.org/timeline/?exe=3%2C6%2C1%2C5base=2%2B472ben=aienv=1revs=200equid=off
, you can see a link called Code below the graph itself, next to the
short description of what the benchmark does.


A bientôt,

Armin.

Fantastic, sorry I missed that.  Thank you.

Laura
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[pypy-dev] http://speed.pypy.org/timeline/ -- show the code?

[Laura Creighton]

I thought there was a way to show the code that was actually run to get
the results.  Maybe I am confusing things with the pshootout site.  Have
I just forgotten how to do this?

I wanted to show an astronomer what sort of code we run blazingly fast vs
what sort we are less speedy at, so he can decide if he needs to write his
algorithm in C++ or not.  If speed.pypy.org doesn't have such a feature,
it would seem to be a good one to add.

Laura
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Re: [pypy-dev] Windows: pypyw.exe?

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Wed, 04 Feb 2015 13:30:27 -0500, Yaacov Finkelman writes:
Hi,

I was wondering what the plan is for fixing:
https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/issue/1651/

It is just a hassle with each upgrade of pypy.

I'd be happy to fix, but I don't know where to start.

Best,

Jacob

Please excuse me for sending you a blank message.
I was trying to test my 'send mail about bitbucket feature'
and, well, i screwed it up and instead of sending me a
private message about that you made a bitbucket issue
mention 

it sent me that and you an empty string, null mail.

very, very sorry, this will not happen again.  I was careless.

Laura Creighton
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Re: [pypy-dev] Ordered dict in PyPy

[Laura Creighton]

Can we talk the CPython developers into raising RunTimeError for
concurrent modifications?

Laura

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[pypy-dev] Paetron .. more ways to get micropayments

[Laura Creighton]

Two friends of mine is using this to support mobile game development. 
After 2 weeks of using it, they have hit the 100 USD a month milestone
(so the TB proboards forum is about to be ad-free).

Read about the service here.
http://www.patreon.com/faq

I thought it might be something we are interested in.

You can see how they are using it here:
http://www.patreon.com/TreseBrothers

Laura
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[pypy-dev] Python Obfuscation Challenge (fwd)

[Laura Creighton]

Not important but  I just received this in the mail.  Those of you
who read python-announce will have got it as well.

--- Forwarded Message

Return-Path: python-announce-list-bounces+lac=openend...@python.org
From: Serge Guelton serge.guel...@telecom-bretagne.eu
To: python-announce-l...@python.org
Subject: Python Obfuscation Challenge
Message-ID: 20140904095459.GA13895@lakota
Reply-To: python-l...@python.org
List-Id: Announcement-only list for the Python programming language
 python-announce-list.python.org

Hi all,

The QuarksLab[0] company just released a Capture The Flag challenge with
an emphasise on Python and CPython:


http://blog.quarkslab.com/you-like-python-security-challenge-and-traveling-win-a-free-ticket-to-hitb-kul.html

There are a few free tickets to the HITB conference[1] to win, so
unleash the hacker in you!

enjoy,

[0] I am indeed an employee of QuarksLab :-/
[1] https://conference.hitb.org/hitbsecconf2014kul
- -- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list

Support the Python Software Foundation:
http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

--- End of Forwarded Message

1. s/emphasise/emphasis/
2. hmmm. so are we the real python now in the eyes of the world? python
and CPython, they say ...
3. Anybody want to visit Kuala Lampur?

Just wanted to mention it,
Laura
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Re: [pypy-dev] Adding a feature to re

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Mon, 25 Aug 2014 03:20:55 -0400, Mike Kaplinskiy writes:
Hey folks,

One of the projects I'm working on in CPython is becoming a little CPU
bound and I was hoping to use pypy. One problem though - one of the pieces
uses the regex library (which claims to be CPython's re-next). Running
regex through cpyext works, but is deadly slow.

From reading the docs it seems like I have a few options:
 - rewrite all of regex in Python - seems like a bad idea
 - rewrite regex to be non-python specific  use cppyy or cffi to interface
with it. I actually looked into this  unfortunately the CPython API seems
quite deep in there.
 - get rid of the dependency somehow. What I'm missing are named lists
(basically La, a=[1,2] will match 1 or 2). Unfortunately creating
one really long re string is out of the question - I have not seen
compile() finish with that approach. Writing a custom DFA could be on the
table, but I was hoping to avoid that error prone step.
 - somehow factor out the part using regex and keep using CPython for it.
 - add the missing functionality to pypy's re. This seems like the path of
least resistance.

I've started looking into the sre module and it looks like quite a few bits
(parsing  compiling to byte code mostly) are reused from CPython. I would
have to change some of those bits. My question is then - is there any hope
of getting these changes upstream then? Do stdlib pieces have a no touch
policy?

Thanks,
Mike.

Do you know about 
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/regex

If I were you, I would try to get the behaviour you want put into the
new replacement version -- which would, of course, be easiest if you
contributed the code.  Then we can see about having pypy do the same ...

Laura
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[pypy-dev] Where is pypy.org?

[Laura Creighton]

I am getting a ton of spam as 'contra...@pypy.org'.  Somewhere that is a
mail alias for me.  I'd like to remove that alias, or have it removed if
it isn't something I can do.  This brings up the larger question as to
whether that whole address is needed at all, or if it should just bounce.

Laura
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Re: [pypy-dev] Question about extension support

[Laura Creighton]

Ok -- the lesson I took from this is 'ref counting hurts performance'.  Why
was that the wrong inference to make?

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] Question about extension support

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:51:42 +0100, Armin Rigo writes:
Hi Laura,

why I am not thinking properly

Ah, thank you.  I actually thought we had found the odd example where 
a better gc beat CPython performance even when the jit was off.  I am
completely wrong about this?  Or is it just that it is so rare it doesn't
matter?

Thank you for teaching me this, in any case.  Sorry for the misinformation.

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] Question about extension support

[Laura Creighton]

Your C-extensions come all bundled up with a whole lot of gorp which
is designed to make them play nicely in a ref-counting environment.
Ref counting is a very slow way to do GC.  Sometimes -- really,
really, really hideously slow.  You are sometimes _way_
better off writing python code instead -- pypy with the jit turned off
outperforms CPython purely on the benefits of not doing ref-counting, and
pypy really needs the jit to  be fast.

There is a bit of conceptual confusion here -- on the one hand, because
C extensions often were written for reasons of performance when compared to
CPython, there is a tendency to believe that C-extensions are, pretty much
by definition fast.  And the other thing is a sort of reflexive belief that
'if it is in C (or C++) then it has to be fast'.  Both of these ideas are
wrong.  A whole lot of C extensions are actually really, really slow.  They 
are just faster than CPython -- or perhaps 'faster than CPython was when 
I wrote this thing' which isn't, after all, that hard a target to meet.

When PyPy finds a C extension which is working very hard to pretend it is
a set of Python objects that can be refcounted, it isn't brilliant enough
to be able to throw away all the ref-counting fakery, intuit what the code
here really is trying to do here, and just run that bit.  That's too hard.
Instead it decides to play along with the ref-counting faking.  So we are 
at 'watch the elephant tap-dance' time ... it doesn't have to do a very good
(read fast) job at this, it is amazing that it does it at all.

Laura


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Re: [pypy-dev] change of strategy for the py3k branch?

[Laura Creighton]

About 25 years ago (dear god that makes me feel old) when CVS was the
new and happening thing in version control systems, we were in the
really bad problem area at Human Computing Resources of porting unix
to more than 1000, kid you not, of different M68010, M68020, NS16032,
NS32032, Zilog-I-forget, MIPS, and I forget what other hardware-based 
systems, with completely crazy combination of graphical cards, interrupt 
driven weird hardware and well, trust me, it was a mess.

We wanted one kernel that we could deploy everywhere.  This was impossible,
but we got the best we could do, given our constraints by changing the whole 
build system to one in which you typed 'make'

and it started by copying all the files from our home repository system 
to a complete and brand new file system, and then copying all the tests
to the same system, and then running the tests that ran before you tried to
compile a kernel, (mostly having to do with seeing that your hardware was 
sane and that the setup script worked, and was happy with the results) and 
then you made your kernel.  Which could take more than an hour.  And then you
ran your kernel tests against the new kernel (which happened overnight).  In
the morning we had a whole new set of errors to deal with.

I don't think that we have reached this level of complexity with PyPy yet,
but it is something to think about.  The time of 'everything is a i386' is
over now, and it is not clear how this will play out in the realm of systems
and even application programming languages.  Clearly not as badly as we had it
when we were making kernels as quickly as we were being sent hardware, but
there still is some effect.

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] feedback on PEP 421

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Sun, 06 May 2012 21:29:12 +0200, Armin Rigo writes:
The reason for that: getting details right might be similar to the
sys module's documentation, which has grown a number of CPython
implementation detail boxes --- which are rather meaningless for
PyPy, in the sense that the set of functions that are dubbed CPython
implementation detail and the set of functions that PyPy cannot
reasonably implement have little to do with each other.

I think a large part of this problem is that CPython implementors are
completely unaware of what set of functions PyPy cannot implement.  
And I don't blame them for that.  I am often in the same way.  I talk
to somebody who wants to make CPython do X, and he wants to know if
PyPy will have a problem with this.  I cautiously reply 'not as
he has outlined the problem'.  3 weeks later, he comes back with
working code.  And I say -- Eeek! we cannot do this, that and the
other thing, and by the way we have a much more efficient way to do this
thing over there.  He quite reasonably asks me 'why didn't you tell
me this in the first place?' and I also reasonably reply 'I had no
idea that you planned this particular implementation when you asked.'

Is there a place in this PEP for 'known differences in implementations'
a.k.a. 'we know this is incompatible but we aren't going to change our 
implementation to fix'??  It might save a lot of trouble.

Laura
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Re: [pypy-dev] Syntax for the 'transaction' module

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Wed, 02 May 2012 09:22:03 +0200, Armin Rigo writes:
Hi Laura,

A note on my two previous messages: in the first one I argued about
@breakable, while the second one I suggested to use threads and with
atomic.  The relationship between the two is: in the first model you
would put @breakable on some outer functions until it calls things
that are supposed to be atomic; in the second model you would identify
the call in question and put with atomic there.  I would personally
prefer @breakable because it forces the atomic by default idea a bit
further, but I fear that the second model is better because it is
fully compatible with existing programs.  Moreover, as I argue
repeatedly, regular apps should use neither, and only library
implementors should have to worry.


A bientôt,

Armin.

As promised, I have been doing more thinking while paddling.  We
camped out in Göteborg's archipelago and the island, as is common, has
sheep.  It occured to me that what we have is very like a shepherding
problem.  Since my uncle raised sheep, I have some personal experience
with these problems from my childhood.

1.  Assume you have 2 pastures, with a gate between them, and a flock 
of sheep.  Your flock is in one pasture, and you want to get them to
the other pasture through the gate.

2.  Sheep are, to use the terms we have been using, 'unbreakable', and
'atomic'.  (If you slice them into pieces to try to get them to fit
through the gate, you will end up with non-functioning sheep on the other
side). :-)

3. If your gate is narrow, you will have to serialise your sheep, and
have them pass through one at a time.

4. If it is wider then parts of different sheep will pass through the
gate intermingled from the perspective of a camera mounted on the
gate.  Nose of sheep 1, nose of sheep 2, head of sheep 1, nose of
sheep 3, head of sheep 3, body of sheep 3, tail of sheep 3, body of
sheep 2, body of sheep 1, tail of sheep 2, tail of sheep 1 is what
the camera might report as 'having gone passed', and we might conclude
that sheep 3 is a small lamb, and that sheep 1 is its mother who
slowed down going through the gate so that the lamb could keep up with
her -- but all of this doesn't matter because, as long as you do not
try to break them, the flock will function perfectly on the other side
of the gate without any attention being paid to them by you.

The main problem you have in moving pastures like this, as a shepherd,
is that ewes (mother sheep) normally have twins or triplets (at least
with the breed that my Uncle raised).  Hungry lambs want to find their
mothers right away, but the rest of the time they are busy frolicking
with other lambs, butting heads, chasing each other, and doing other
jeuvenile sheep things.  They don't play with their siblings any more
than with the other lambs.  Ewes, on the other hand, want their own
offspring close together, and with them all the time.  The mechanism
that the sheep use to keep track of each other is to bleat.  Each lamb
knows the sound of its mother's voice, and each ewe knows the sound of
its own lambs'.  They bleat more or less constantly when then are
moving from a part of the pasture to another, and of course when they
are being moved -- and they aren't all that quiet when grazing,
either.

If you are moving sheep through a gate, and it turns out that you have one
lamb in the new pasture while it's sibling(s) are in the old pasture you can
freeze your whole operation.  The mother ewe will stand in your gate and 
refuse to move until she is reunited with all her lambs, which might be
impossible if your gate is narrow.  I don't think we have anything like
this in our model, though maybe there is something analogous to bleating.

Do we need to handle the case of bits of code that are themselves
atomic that depend on being run with other bits of code in a
predictable sequence, or one of several possible sequences?

But you don't 'lock sheep', or sheep families.  All you can do is try
to submit them to the gate again.  And from personal experience, it
would be *very* *very* useful if you could magically restore the lamb
that is early into the new pasture into the old pasture, right beside
its mother.  (Of course then you would just be able to teleport the
whole lot and go away with gates altogether).

At any rate, if we want to discourage people from using what they
think they already know about concurrency and locking and whatnot, we
might want to talk about what we are doing as herding a flock of
whatever we call the atomic series of instructions.  I'm pretty sure
that this language isn't already being used somewhere to mean
something else, at any rate. :-) You (or mostly your dogs) 'drive' and
'fetch' sheep through gates -- driving is away from the shepherd and
fetching is towards the shepherd -- and you gather individual sheep
into a flock.

www.herding-dog-training-border-collie-sheepdog-dvd.com/herding_sheepdog_command_terminology.htm

has some other interesting 

Re: [pypy-dev] Syntax for the 'transaction' module

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Tue, 01 May 2012 11:27:56 +0200, Armin Rigo writes:
* First question: 'transaction'.  The name is kind of bogus, because
it implies that it must be based on transactional memory.  Such a name
doesn't make sense if, say, you are running the single-core emulator
version.  What the module is about is to give a way to schedule tasks
and run them in some unspecified order.

The problem is that the csc namespace is overloaded with terms that
already mean 'make-a-noun out of the verb I want to do', and the
verb list that means 'do something' is a rather full namespace as well.

Often you can get what you want by dropping the noun-ification -- so
you would replace 'transaction' with 'transact'.  This will not help the
'tranactional memory' association.

So how about 'schedule'?

My experience says that if you pick a verb, and not a noun, the code
often comes out cleaner, because otherwise you tend to write -- or the people
who use your library tend to write --  state-full
things by habit even when they are not needed because the language points
them that way.  It looks to me as if your design is rather stateless by
design, so maybe you want a verb and not a noun in any case.

* How about replacing the global functions 'transaction.add()' and
'transaction.run()' with a class, like 'transaction.Runner', that you
need to instantiate and on which you call the methods add() and run().
 If moreover the class has an '__exit__()' that redirects to run(),
then you can use it like this:

with transaction.Runner() as t:
for block in blocks:
t.add(do_stuff, block)

And maybe, like concurrent.futures, a map() method --- although it
seems to me like CPython was happily relegating the built-in map() in
the corner of advanced users only; then adding a map() again seems a
bit counter-productive --- it would look like that:

with transaction.Runner() as t:
t.map(do_stuff, blocks)

* Note that the added transactions are only run on __exit__(), not
when you call add() or map().  This might be another argument against
map().

Or an argument to build a different sort of 'add me lots of things' 
function??  I am not sure this makes sense.  I am going kayaking
overnight now, I will think of this more while paddling.


* The point of the examples above is that t can also be passed
around in the transactions, and t.add() called on it again from there.
 Also, such a syntax nicely removes the need for any global state, and
so it opens the door to nesting: you can write one of the above
examples inside code that happens to run itself as a transaction from
some unrelated outer Runner().  Right now, you cannot call
transaction.run() from within a transaction --- and it doesn't make
sense because we cannot tell if the transaction.add() that you just
did were meant to schedule transactions for the outer or the future
inner run().  That's what is better with this proposed new API.
(Supporting it requires more work in the current implementation,
though.)

But, for what it is worth, it pleases my aesthetic sense to no end.
Which is why I want an 'add me lots of things' that works with this. :-)

* Another issue.  I think by now that we need special support to mean:
I want to end a transaction, then non-transactionally call this C
function that will likely block for some time, and when it returns, I
want to start the next transaction.  This seem general enough to
support various kinds of things, like calling select() or
epoll_wait().  The question is what kind of support we want.

I played with various ideas and I'll present the combination that
satisfies me the most, but I'm open to any other suggestion.

We could in theory support calling in-line the function, i.e. just
call select() and it will break the current transaction in two.  This
is similar to the fact that select() in CPython releases and
re-acquires the GIL.  But it breaks the abstraction that every add()
gives *one* transaction.  

transaction == 'set of things to schedule, atomically'? or something 
else?  Right now it is not clear to me why 'one' is important, probably
because I do not understand something.

It kind of goes against the general design
of the API so far, which is that you add() things to do, but don't do
them right now --- they will be done later.  To voice it differently,
I dislike this solution because you can break a working program just
by adding a debugging print in the middle (assuming that print
would also break the current transaction in two, like it releases the
GIL in CPython).  It would break the program because what used to be
in the same transaction, no longer is: random things (done by other
unrelated transactions) can suddenly have happened because you added a
print.

I can agree that any program that breaks when you add a print is a
bear to debig -- I used to get this quite often with Borland's C++ and
it made me pull out hair.

The idea I'm playing with is two running modes: breakable vs

[pypy-dev] OSCON deadline for proposals Jan 12.

[Laura Creighton]

--- Forwarded Message

To: conferen...@python.org
From: Aahz a...@pythoncraft.com

DEADLINE Thursday January 12

OSCON (O'Reilly Open Source Convention), the premier Open Source
gathering, will be held in Portland, OR July 16-20.  We're looking for
people to deliver tutorials and shorter presentations.

http://www.oscon.com/oscon2012
http://www.oscon.com/oscon2012/public/cfp/197

Hope to see you there!
- -- 
Aahz (a...@pythoncraft.com)   * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
--- End of Forwarded Message

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Re: [pypy-dev] OS

[Laura Creighton]

I worked on the Tunis OS at the University of Toronto, which was an OS
written in Concurrent Euclid.  I think -- especially if Software Transactional
Memory works out, there will be interest in writing an OS, not in RPython, 
but in Python.  So then, well, maybe you will want a JIT ...

I think we will only be able to finally ditch unix/linux for 
_something significantly better_ when we get to write the something better in
a higher level language than C.  Or Java.

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] Translating pypy-sandbox eats 13GB of RAM

[Laura Creighton]

Are you using gcc 4.2?

If so , you have this bug.  
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.2/+bug/187391

and you  need a newer gcc.  (Or maybe an older one would work, too, but this
one doesn't).

Laura
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[pypy-dev] PyPy Sprint Nov 2 - 9 in Gothenburg, Sweden

[Laura Creighton]

PyPy Göteborg Post-Hallowe'en Sprint Nov 2nd - Nov 9th
=

The next PyPy sprint will be in Gothenburg, Sweden. It is a public sprint, 
suitable for newcomers.  We'll focus on making a public kickoff for
both the `numpy/pypy integration project`_
and the `Py3k support project`_,
as well as whatever interests the Sprint attendees.  Since both of these
projects are very new, there will be plenty of work suitable for newcomers
to PyPy.
 
.. _`numpy/pypy integration project`: http://pypy.org/numpydonate.html
.. _`Py3k interpreter project`: http://pypy.org/py3donate.html

Other topics might include:

- Helping people get their code running with PyPy

- work on a FSCons talk?

- state of the STM Vinnova project (We most likely, but not for certain will
  know whether or not we are approved by this date.)

Other Useful dates
--
GothPyCon_ - Saturday Oct 29.

.. _GothPyCon: http://www.meetup.com/GothPy/events/32864862/

FSCONS_ Friday Nov 11 - Sunday Nov 12.

.. _FSCONS: http://fscons.org/

Location


The sprint will be held in the apartment of Laura Creighton and Jacob Hallén
which is at Götabergsgatan 22 in Gothenburg, Sweden.  Here is a map_.  This is
in central Gothenburg.  It is between the tram_ stops of Vasaplatsen and 
Valand, (a distance of 4 blocks) where many lines call -- the 2, 3, 4, 5,
7, 10 and 13.

.. _tram: http://www.vasttrafik.se/en/

.. _map: http://bit.ly/grRuQe

Probably cheapest and not too far away is to book accomodation at `SGS
Veckobostader`_. The  `Elite Park Avenyn Hotel`_ is a luxury hotel just a 
few blocks away. There are scores of hotels a short walk away from the
sprint location, suitable for every budget, desire for luxury, and desire
for the unusual.  You could, for instance, stay on a `boat`_.  Options are
too numerous to go into here. Just ask in the mailing list or on the blog.

.. _`SGS Veckobostader`: http://www.sgsveckobostader.se/en
.. _`Elite Park Avenyn Hotel`: http://www.elite.se/hotell/goteborg/park/
.. _`boat`: 
http://www.liseberg.se/en/home/Accommodation/Hotel/Hotel-Barken-Viking/

Hours will be
from 10:00 until people have had enough.  It's a good idea to arrive a
day before the sprint starts and leave a day later.  In the middle of
the sprint there usually is a break day and it's usually ok to take
half-days off if you feel like it.  Of course, many of you may be interested
in sticking around for FSCons, held the weekend after the sprint.


Good to Know


Sweden is not part of the Euro zone. One SEK (krona in singular, kronor
in plural) is roughly 1/10th of a Euro (9.36 SEK to 1 Euro).

The venue is central in Gothenburg.  There is a large selection of
places to get food nearby, from edible-and-cheap to outstanding.  We
often cook meals together, so let us know if you have any food allergies,
dislikes, or special requirements.

Sweden uses the same kind of plugs as Germany. 230V AC.


Getting Here

If are coming train, you will arrive at the `Central Station`_.  It is
about 12 blocks to the site from there, or you can take a tram_. 

There are two airports which are local to Göteborg, `Landvetter`_ (the main
one) and `Gothenburg City Airport`_ (where some budget airlines fly).
If you arrive at `Landvetter`_  the airport bus stops right downtown at
`Elite Park Avenyn Hotel`_ which is the second stop, 4 blocks from the
Sprint site, as well as the end of the line, which is the `Central Station`_.
If you arrive at `Gothenburg City Airport`_ take the bus to the end of the
line.  You will be at the  `Central Station`_.

You can also arrive by ferry_, from either Kiel in Germany or Frederikshavn
in Denmark.

.. _`Central Station`: http://bit.ly/fON43p

.. _`Landvetter`: 
http://swedavia.se/en/Goteborg/Traveller-information/Traffic-information/
.. _`Gothenburg City Airport`: http://www.goteborgairport.se/eng.asp

.. _ferry: http://www.stenaline.nl/en/ferry/

Who's Coming?
--

If you'd like to come, please let us know when you will be arriving and 
leaving, as well as letting us know your interests  We'll keep a list
of `people`_ which we'll update (which you can do so yourself if you
have bitbucket pypy commit rights).

.. _`people`: 
https://bitbucket.org/pypy/extradoc/src/tip/sprintinfo/gothenburg-2011/people.txt
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Re: [pypy-dev] Gothenburg Sprint Dates

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Wed, 12 Oct 2011 22:04:08 +0200, Armin Rigo writes:
Hi Maciej,

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:28, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrot
e:
 It's not like we even discussed what the general pypy pot will be used
 for. I think sprint funding is fine, but what are other people
 opinions?

Of course I agree.  Note that 6 nights at Chalmers Studenthem is about
~120 Euros per person in a double room, if I remember correctly.  If
the problem is that this is still too much, then (as far as I can
tell) it should not be an issue to arrange sprint funding for you.  We
already did this occasionally for other people, btw.


A bientôt,

Armin.

And, again as always, I think that sprint funding is the very best
use we can make of our money, as a general principle.

Laura
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Re: [pypy-dev] Gothenburg Sprint Dates

[Laura Creighton]

First draft in extradoc.  Please add the more details of the topics we
want to discuss, and decide whether you want to do the sprinting at
my house or at OE.  I am fine with either.  I don't think there will
be any actual construction happening in the house at this time.  If I
am wrong, I will let you know as soon as I do.

Laura
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[pypy-dev] I was talking with Russel Winder at PyCON UK.

[Laura Creighton]

He says, currently, PyPy's threading does not scale properly.  More below.  
Maybe we
want to use his benchmark?

Laura


--- Forwarded Message

Return-Path: rus...@russel.org.uk
Delivery-Date: Thu Sep 29 13:53:50 2011
Subject: PyPy and multiprocessing
From: Russel Winder rus...@russel.org.uk
To: Laura Creighton l...@openend.se

- --=-I2STZOatYEgK/vXAGHYd
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Laura,

I have a collection of various versions (using various features of
various languages) of the embarrassingly parallel problem of calculating
Pi using quadrature.  It is a micro-benchmark and so suffers from all
the issues they suffer from (especially on the JVM).  The code is a
Bazaar branch http://www.russel.org.uk/Bazaar/Pi_Quadrature.

I am writing as there appears to be an interesting feature using PyPy
and the microprocessing package in pool mode.

This is a twin-Xeon machine so has 8 cores =E2=80=94 a 32 thread run should=
 only
go as fast as an 8 thread run.  Scaling should be linear in the number
of cores.

Using CPython 2.7, I get:

| python2.7 pi_python2_multiprocessing_pool.py
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool pi =3D 3.14159265359
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool iteration count =3D 1000
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool elapse =3D 3.5378549099
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool process count =3D 1
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool processor count =3D 8

=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool pi =3D 3.14159265359
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool iteration count =3D 1000
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool elapse =3D 1.97133994102
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool process count =3D 2
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool processor count =3D 8

=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool pi =3D 3.14159265359
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool iteration count =3D 1000
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool elapse =3D 0.515691041946
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool process count =3D 8
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool processor count =3D 8

=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool pi =3D 3.14159265359
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool iteration count =3D 1000
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool elapse =3D 0.521239995956
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool process count =3D 32
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool processor count =3D 8

Using PyPy 1.6 I get:

| pypy pi_python2_multiprocessing_pool.py
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool pi =3D 3.14159265359
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool iteration count =3D 1000
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool elapse =3D 0.249331951141
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool process count =3D 1
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool processor count =3D 8

=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool pi =3D 3.14159265359
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool iteration count =3D 1000
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool elapse =3D 0.104065895081
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool process count =3D 2
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool processor count =3D 8

=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool pi =3D 3.14159265359
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool iteration count =3D 1000
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool elapse =3D 0.0764398574829
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool process count =3D 8
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool processor count =3D 8

=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool pi =3D 3.14159265359
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool iteration count =3D 1000
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool elapse =3D 0.124751091003
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool process count =3D 32
=3D=3D=3D=3D Python Multiprocessing Pool processor count =3D 8

There is no statistical significance to these one off numbers but I am
fairly confident that there are no large variations should a proper
collection of data be taken.

The point here is that whereas CPython shows the expected scaling, PyPy
does not give the expected scaling for larger nubmers of cores.  Indeed
having more threads than cores is detrimental to PyPy but not to
CPython.

Hopefully we will soon be seeing PyPy be Python 3.2 compliant!

- --=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@russel.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

- --=-I2STZOatYEgK/vXAGHYd
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc
Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux

Re: [pypy-dev] Gothenburg Sprint Dates

[Laura Creighton]

Fscons has asked for somebody to speak on PyPy.  So far I have
said 'yes' and nothing specific about the content.

Laura
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[pypy-dev] PyCON Finland has just announced its opening

[Laura Creighton]

http://fi.pycon.org/2011/#schedule

It's not that far away for some of us, Finland is beautiful, and they
still have space for talks and sprints.

Laura
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[pypy-dev] PyCon UK wants pypy

[Laura Creighton]

This is the message that got bounced.  Since I now am admin
this shouldn't happen any more.

--- Forwarded Message

Return-Path: funth...@gmail.com
Delivery-Date: Wed Aug 31 10:47:05 2011
Return-Path: funth...@gmail.com
Message-ID: cab-vkoqjdyboecwzo9mfxmmouzcoxjrrbbz2kezr7xmbbrl...@mail.gmail.com
Subject: Fwd: PyPy at PyCon UK
From: John Pinner funth...@gmail.com
To: Laura Creighton l...@openend.se

The bounced post...


- -- Forwarded message --
From: John Pinner funth...@gmail.com
Date: 30 August 2011 23:45
Subject: PyPy at PyCon UK
To: pypy-dev@python.org


Hello Guys,

You should have heard that we are holding PyCon UK 2011 on 24th-25th
September 2011 at Coventry, UK (about 25km from Birmingham where we
held EP2009/EP2010).

Details are on the wiki at http://pyconuk.net.

It would be good to have a PyPy presence, at least a talk, maybe a
Workshop, or better still a sprint.

The new venue has excellent facilities, including really good internet
access (typically 35 Mbits up and down).

If you'd like to take part, please put things up on the wiki.

If you want to hold a sprint, we could extend it either side of the
conference days, to include Friday 23rd and/or Monday 26th September,
but we need to know if you want to do this, and numbers of sprinters,
this week to make sure we have the facilities booked and finance
available.

Best wishes,

John
- --

--- End of Forwarded Message

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Re: [pypy-dev] [COMMENT] Pull request #8 for pypy/pypy: added numpy.sort, tests, and docstring for numpy.array.sort

[Laura Creighton]

I'd like it if the comments on pull requests came with the name
of the person making the request, in this case yasirs.  Is this
something we can do on our end, (I don't think so) or something
we need to ask Bitbucket to change?

Laura

In a message of Sun, 28 Aug 2011 06:32:52 -, Bitbucket writes:
New comment on pull request:

https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/pull-request/8/added-numpysort-tests-and-
do=
cstring-for#comment-35

Alex Gaynor (alex_gaynor) said:

Sorry, here are the issues I saw:

* It would need to be rewritten after the merge of the dtypes branch (whi
ch=
 rewrites most of everything :P)
* It doesn't work with any of the virtual arrays (I'm surprised it even t
ra=
nslates)
* It looks like a pretty simple quicksort, which means it can have perfor
ma=
nce issues (I'd like to try using the TimSort we already have)
* There are stylistic issues, semicolons, and excessive parens mostly.

--
This is a pull request comment notification from bitbucket.org.
You are receiving this either because you are participating
in a pull request, or you are following it.
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Re: [pypy-dev] STM on CPython

[Laura Creighton]

Armin wrote:
So, all this to say: 8 years later, I implemented that on CPython:
https://bitbucket.org/arigo/cpython-withatomic/overview (on the 2.7
branch).  It is sadly a fork of CPython instead of a C extension
module because it needs to access and change a few things in ceval.c.
The total patch is 190 lines, and that's because I need a new type
(very verbose).  It implements thread.atomic, which you use in a
with statement.  So you write with atomic: and you get precisely
the simple case described here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_transactional_memory#Proposed_language_support.

Fwiw it's probably also a minimal patch to PyPy.  Sorry for being
mostly off-topic for once...

Have you told python-dev about this?

Laura



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Re: [pypy-dev] Object identity and dict strategies

[Laura Creighton]

What do we want to happen when somebody -- say in a C extension -- takes the id 
of an object
that is scheduled to be removed when the gc next runs?

Laura

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Re: [pypy-dev] butialo activity

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Mon, 27 Jun 2011 20:49:09 -0300, Andres Aguirre writes:
Hi to everyone.
There's a new activit, I hope that most of you will enjoy, it's called
Butialo (http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4457)
Butialo is a IDE based on PyPy that allows programming the Buti=E1 robot
(http://www.fing.edu.uy/inco/proyectos/butia/)
with Lua. Lua is a very fast, powerfull and easy to use language. The
IDE provides autodetects the configuration of your Butia robot, and
provides snippets of code showing how to read sensors and do stuff.
Best regards

-- =

/\ndr=E9s

I looked at those links, and the robot looks  like a lot of fun.  But
I am still confused, a bit.  What exactly did you use pypy for?

Laura
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[pypy-dev] PyCon Finland Oct 17-18 in Turku -- CFP

[Laura Creighton]

We should give a talk. It's even _close_ to some of us. :-)

Laura

--- Forwarded Message

Return-Path: conferences-bounces+lac=openend...@python.org
Delivery-Date: Thu Jun 16 14:39:35 2011
From: Jyry Suvilehto tiedott...@python.fi
To: tiedo...@python.fi, pi...@googlegroups.com,
python-stockh...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Conferences] PyCon Finland 2011 Call For Proposals

PyCon Finland will take place October 17-18 in Turku. The first day
will feature presentations and the second is reserved for sprints.

We are currently accepting proposals for both talks and sprints. If
you would like to give a presentation, organize a sprint or see
presentations on a particular topic, please see instructions at
http://python.fi/pyconfi. The deadline for proposals is 1.8. The
organizers will notify accepted presenters and sprint coordinators by
14.8.

The presentation slots will be 40 minutes + 10 minutes of discussion
at the end. Shared sessions are also possible. The language for the
presentations should be English to encourage international
participation.

We are also looking for sponsors for the event. If you are interested
in sponsoring, please contact Python Finland at halli...@python.fi for
details about sponsorship packages.

- -- 
Jyry Suvilehto
Spokesperson, Python Finland
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This is an open list with open archives; sensitive or confidential information 
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