[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: It's stupid that the imaginary unit in Python is denoted by a j just for ambiguity reasons that i can be mistaken with a 1 or an l. It's true that 1 and l can look the same in some fonts, but that is *certainly not true* for the small letter i. Just fix the j into an i already. -- resolution: wont fix - remind status: closed - open ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Changes by Brian Curtin br...@python.org: -- resolution: remind - wont fix status: open - closed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: Please fix this in Python 3.3 and don't forget to fix the complex() function/method as well. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Brian Curtin br...@python.org added the comment: Please stop re-opening this thread. The reasons it will not be fixed have been laid out. -- nosy: +brian.curtin -gvanrossum resolution: remind - wont fix status: open - closed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com added the comment: @brian.curtin: +1 @Retro: as noted in #10621, please take this to python-id...@python.org -- nosy: +eric.snow ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org added the comment: This will not be fixed. For one thing, the letter 'i' or upper case 'I' look too much like digits. The way numbers are parsed either by the language parser (in source code) or by the built-in functions (int, float, complex) should not be localizable or configurable in any way; that's asking for huge disappointments down the road. If you want to parse complex numbers using 'i' instead of 'j', you have plenty of solutions available already. -- nosy: +gvanrossum ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: What's up with that now? Any interests in changing the imaginary unit from j to i ? -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: Come on, let's do this. -- resolution: wont fix - remind status: closed - open versions: +Python 3.3 -Python 3.2 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com added the comment:
While this thread was amusing to read, *changing* Python from the engineering
notation to mathematical notation for imaginary numbers is not going to happen.
'i' has ambiguity problems relative to '1' and 'l' in too many fonts - 'j', on
the other hand, almost always uses a visually distinct glyph. And whether 'i'
or 'j' seems more natural to you will depend on whether or not you have an
electrical engineering background (as noted earlier in the thread, 'i' refers
to current in electrical engineering).
If you care about the precise formatting of a complex number, write your own
formatting function rather than relying on the exact format produced by
repr(num).
Having an alternate constructor for complex objects that was more forgiving
about 'i' vs 'j' also doesn't offer a huge benefit over the simple x =
complex(arg.replace('i', 'j').
So while I have some sympathy for mathematicians that are frustrated by having
to train their fingers to hit 'j' instead of 'i', that's not a good enough
reason to change the language syntax or the behaviour of the complex() builtin.
(See also
http://www.boredomandlaziness.org/2011/02/status-quo-wins-stalemate.html)
--
nosy: +ncoghlan
resolution: remind - wont fix
stage: - committed/rejected
status: open - closed
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Changes by Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org: Removed file: http://bugs.python.org/file19929/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment: Whether 1+2j is a literal or an expression is debatable. Really? I can't imagine what basis you'd have for calling either 1+2j or +1 a literal. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Georg Brandl ge...@python.org added the comment: An imaginary basis maybe? -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: The result of 1 + 2j cannot be further broken down, so the result stays as 1 + 2j (note the spaces!). (1+2j) (1 + 2j) Following PEP 8 in this regard is also needed. Abandon the request of adding the i unit and rather fix this spacing issue. The complex() built-in function should also be fixed to add spaces around operators. -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19923/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___The result of 1 + 2j cannot be further broken down, so the result stays as 1 + 2j (note the spaces!).divbr/divdivNo:/divdivdivgt;gt;gt; 1 + 2j/divdiv(1+2j)/div/divdivbr/divdivYes:/divdiv divgt;gt;gt; 1 + 2j/divdiv(1 + 2j)/div/divdivbr/divdivbr/divdivFollowing PEP 8 in this regard is also needed. Abandon the request of adding the i unit and rather fix this spacing issue. The complex() built-in function should also be fixed to add spaces around operators./div ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Robert Lehmann lehman...@gmail.com added the comment: I wonder whether there are many examples where scientific data is written in a form that Python's complex() constructor couldn't currently read, but would be able to read if it accepted 'i' in place of 'j'. I could not reproduce widespread real world issues with the syntax as it stands using Google Code Search (a mere 4 unique hits). http://goo.gl/sqMhY -- nosy: +lehmannro ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment: Thanks for that, Robert. Actually, I find those few results quite convincing as evidence that it would be useful to support 'i' (and 'I') on input. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment: I can't imagine what basis you'd have for calling either 1+2j or +1 a literal. Poor understanding of the parser/tokenizer/formal grammar. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: Please make the tokenizer surround spaces around operators. So the output would be like in the example below: (1 + 2j) (1 + 2j) -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19925/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___divPlease make the tokenizer surround spaces around operators. So the output would be like in the example below:/div div /div divgt;gt;gt; 1 + 2jbr(1 + 2j)/div div /div divAlso this:/div divgt;gt;gt; 1+2jbr(1 + 2j)/div ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Adam Byrtek adambyr...@gmail.com added the comment: What happened with there should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it? -- nosy: +adambyrtek ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: Indeed. There should be spaces around all the operators. Even in my posted example. -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19927/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___Indeed. There should be spaces around all the operators. Even in my posted example. ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Alexander Belopolsky belopol...@users.sourceforge.net added the comment: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Boštjan Mejak rep...@bugs.python.org wrote: .. Indeed. There should be spaces around all the operators. Even in my posted example. Aim higher: we obviously want Python output look beautiful in print, so operands should be surrounded by U+2009 (THIN SPACE). -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: Alexander, is it possible to make an output like (1+2j) be printed as (1 + 2j). Also, why is the result put in parens? -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19928/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___Alexander, is it possible to make an output like (1+2j) be printed as (1 + 2j). Also, why is the result put in parens? ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Alexander Belopolsky belopol...@users.sourceforge.net added the comment: Alexander, is it possible to make an output like (1+2j) be printed as (1 + 2j). Sure, and 'j' can be highlighted in red, but this is a job for a front-end or a custom display hook, not core python. You may want to take a look at ipython. Also, why is the result put in parens? There was a historical reason for that, but I don't remember it now. You may find the answer in the tracker, svn log, or python-dev archives. It may not have been obvious, but most of the comments here including mine were not serious even when they did not include smileys. Nothing will happen here. Time to move on. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
James Eric Pruitt eric.pru...@gmail.com added the comment: Also, why is the result put in parens? Without them, something like 'eval(100 * + repr(imaginary))' would not work properly. -- nosy: +ericpruitt ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: Parens are okay then. Still, put spaces around operators. If 1 + 2j let the output be (1 + 2j)Please!!! -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19929/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___Parens are okay then. Still, put spaces around operators. If  1 + 2j  let the output be (1 + 2j)   Please!!! ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Changes by Raymond Hettinger rhettin...@users.sourceforge.net: -- nosy: -rhettinger ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: The imaginary unit 'i' should be equvivalent to the imaginary unit 'j'. The imaginary unit, however, should be used consistently in the source code. -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19908/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___The imaginary unit #39;i#39; should be equvivalent to the imaginary unit #39;j#39;. The imaginary unit, however, should be used consistently in the source code. ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Raymond Hettinger rhettin...@users.sourceforge.net added the comment:
If this change were important, the numpy/scipy guys would have requested it
long ago. Any possible benefit would be slight and not at all worth the
disruption.
s.replace('j', 'i')
--
nosy: +rhettinger
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment: There should be an environment variable to make the symbol settable. That could work; it's a bit late to do this in 3.2, though. How about the following transition strategy for the complex output. Python 3.3: Introduce PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL environment variable (and possibly also a related command-line option to the interpreter?). Python 3.4: Show a warning on startup if this environment variable isn't used. Python 3.5: Make the environment variable mandatory. Python 3.6: Make the environment variable optional again, but this time with the default output being 'i' rather than 'j'. Python 3.7: Deprecate use of PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL. (Warning on startup if it's set.) Python 3.8: Error on startup if PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL is set. Python 3.9: Go back to ignoring PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL. I'm sure we could find a compatible transition strategy for the complex *inputs*: (3.3: accept both 'i' and 'j'; 3.6: warn about 'j' usage; 3.8 remove acceptance of 'j' on input). -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: That is acceptable, but way to slow for the 'j' imaginary unit to become extinct. It should happen sooner. -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19910/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___That is acceptable, but way to slow for the #39;j#39; imaginary unit to become extinct. It should happen sooner. ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Georg Brandl ge...@python.org added the comment: We also should consider a good roadmap to account for the eventual support of quaternions in the language syntax. Since the conventional mathematical symbols for the additional imaginary units of quaternions are j and k, confusion is bound to happen. My preferred solution is to limit PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL values to i, j or k in Python 3.4. The two additional imaginary unit symbols would then be a cyclic permutation of i,j,k, viz. for PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL=j, the units are k and i. This deterministic approach has the advantage that migration of code from one imaginary symbol to another is as easy as: sed -e 's/k/l/' -e 's/j/k/' -e 's/i/j/' -e 's/l/i/' provided that you restrict yourself not to use the characters i, j, k or l in identifiers, keywords or strings in the source code. -- nosy: +georg.brandl ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Antoine Pitrou pit...@free.fr added the comment: Since the conventional mathematical symbols for the additional imaginary units of quaternions are j and k, confusion is bound to happen. My preferred solution is to limit PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL values to i, j or k in Python 3.4. The two additional imaginary unit symbols would then be a cyclic permutation of i,j,k, viz. for PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL=j, the units are k and i. Can we consider an environment variable to change the direction of the permutation, e.g. PYTHONIMAGINARYPERMUTATIONDIR=-1? Otherwise +11j from me. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Raymond Hettinger rhettin...@users.sourceforge.net added the comment: Since we have two distinct user groups (engineers and everyone else), it's clear that we should fork Python. That would let each group work with their on most-natural-representation and it would prevent unnecessary configuration challenges. Benjamin, could you please start a new branch and fork the website into python.i.org and python.j.org. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: How did you implement the letter 'j' as the imaginary unit? Can you now implement the letter 'i' to act as an imaginary unit? Is that possible? If it's possible in MATLAB, why not have both 'j' and 'i' in Python as well? -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19911/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___How did you implement the letter #39;j#39; as the imaginary unit? Can you now implement the letter #39;i#39; to act as an imaginary unit? Is that possible? If it#39;s possible in MATLAB, why not have both #39;j#39; and #39;i#39; in Python as well? ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Georg Brandl ge...@python.org added the comment: I heard that MathWorks has a patent on METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR IMAGINATORIAL FREEDOM, so if that's true we might not be allowed to implement it. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: In electrical engineeringhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_engineering and related fields, the imaginary unit is often denoted by *j* to avoid confusion with electrical currenthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_(electricity) as a function of time, traditionally denoted by *i*(*t*) or just *i*. -Wikipedia Does Python have to deal with electrical current as a function of time to associate j with the imaginary unit and not i? -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19912/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___font class=Apple-style-span face=sans-serifspan class=Apple-style-span style=line-height: 19px;span class=Apple-style-span style=font-size: 13px; quot;In a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_engineering; title=Electrical engineering style=text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background-image: none; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; electrical engineering/a and related fields, the imaginary unit is often denoted by ij/i to avoid confusion with a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_(electricity) title=Current (electricity) class=mw-redirect style=text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background-image: none; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; electrical current/a as a function of time, traditionally denoted by ii/i(it/i) or just ii/i.quot; -Wikipedia/span/span/fontdiv font class=Apple-style-span face=sans-serifspan class=Apple-style-span style=line-height: 19px;span class=Apple-style-span style=font-size: 13px; br/span/span/font/divdivfont class=Apple-style-span face=sans-serifspan class=Apple-style-span style=line-height: 19px;span class=Apple-style-span style=font-size: 13px; Does Python have to deal with electrical current as a function of time to associate j with the imaginary unit and not i?/span/span/font/div ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Brian Curtin cur...@acm.org added the comment: yes -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Georg Brandl ge...@python.org added the comment: Sure. I have personally written software where i denotes, in effect, an electrical current. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Raymond Hettinger rhettin...@users.sourceforge.net added the comment: Can you now implement the letter 'i' to act as an imaginary unit? Is that possible? Yes, it's possible; however, the developers do not think it is worthwhile. If it's possible in MATLAB, why not have both 'j' and 'i' in Python as well? Python does some things differently that MATLAB. One design choice is to avoid global configurations (such as number of places displayed in a float) because modules written by different people make make different assumptions or may compete for a preferred setting. Let's try to end this thread now. It's a bit of no-win situtation. None of the core devs see enough possible benefit to warrant the disruption it would cause. Years of Python being used in the scientific community has shown that the current use of 'j' has not been a problem. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Marc-Andre Lemburg m...@egenix.com added the comment: Mark Dickinson wrote: Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment: There should be an environment variable to make the symbol settable. That could work; it's a bit late to do this in 3.2, though. How about the following transition strategy for the complex output. Python 3.3: Introduce PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL environment variable (and possibly also a related command-line option to the interpreter?). Python 3.4: Show a warning on startup if this environment variable isn't used. Python 3.5: Make the environment variable mandatory. Python 3.6: Make the environment variable optional again, but this time with the default output being 'i' rather than 'j'. Python 3.7: Deprecate use of PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL. (Warning on startup if it's set.) Python 3.8: Error on startup if PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL is set. Python 3.9: Go back to ignoring PYTHONIMAGINARYSYMBOL. I'm sure we could find a compatible transition strategy for the complex *inputs*: (3.3: accept both 'i' and 'j'; 3.6: warn about 'j' usage; 3.8 remove acceptance of 'j' on input). Hmm, what calendar are you using ? April 1st is still a few months away on the Gregorian one and even the Julian calendar isn't that far off yet :-) Why not simply support both for number constructors (and stick with 'j' for the language spec) ? -- nosy: +lemburg ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment: In all seriousness, the idea of accepting both 'i' and 'j' in complex() isn't horrible. I'm personally -0.small on it, mostly because it seems likely to lead to more objections about the complex str() and repr() *output* containing 'j's. I still think python-ideas would be a more appropriate place for that discussion, though. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Marc-Andre Lemburg m...@egenix.com added the comment: Mark Dickinson wrote: Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment: In all seriousness, the idea of accepting both 'i' and 'j' in complex() isn't horrible. I'm personally -0.small on it, mostly because it seems likely to lead to more objections about the complex str() and repr() *output* containing 'j's. I still think python-ideas would be a more appropriate place for that discussion, though. I think this falls under a locale problem of some sort... engineers like 'j', mathematician prefer 'i'. Personally, I think it's more important to be able to read scientific data easily without too many problems, then to be able to write the processed data in exactly the same way it was read. When formatting complex numbers, you have the issues of whether to include spaces, parens, 'i' or 'j', so this is better left to a application space function to deal with, IMHO. I would prefer to have str() and repr() always use the parens and j notation - it makes recognizing complex numbers easier, e.g. compare (1+0j) 0+1j 1j 11 11 to (1+0j) 0+1j (0+1j) 11 11 (but I guess that another problem) -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment: Personally, I think it's more important to be able to read scientific data easily without too many problems, then to be able to write the processed data in exactly the same way it was read. I wonder whether there are many examples where scientific data is written in a form that Python's complex() constructor couldn't currently read, but would be able to read if it accepted 'i' in place of 'j'. My (wild) guess would be that, in the cases where the data isn't stored in binary form anyway, complex numbers are written simply as pairs of floats. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Georg Brandl ge...@python.org added the comment: That would be a good question for a numpy/scipy-related mailing list, I guess. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment:
Maybe we need a complex analog to datetime.strptime:
complex.strpcx('(3 + 4i)', '(%R + %Ii)') - 3 + 4j
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Antoine Pitrou pit...@free.fr added the comment:
Le jeudi 02 décembre 2010 à 22:29 +, Mark Dickinson a écrit :
Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment:
Maybe we need a complex analog to datetime.strptime:
complex.strpcx('(3 + 4i)', '(%R + %Ii)') - 3 + 4j
How about '3 + 4i'.transform('complex')?
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: (7.8064-6j) According to PEP 8, the output in our example should be with spaces surrounding the subtraction operator, like this: (1 + 2.56j) * (-1 - 3.44j) (7.8064 - 6j) -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19914/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___divWhy does the Python parser not follow PEP 8?/divdivgt;gt;gt; (1 + 2.56j) * (-1 - 3.44j)/divdiv(7.8064-6j)/divdivbr/divdivAccording to PEP 8, the output in our example should be with spaces surrounding the subtraction operator, like this:/div divdivgt;gt;gt; (1 + 2.56j) * (-1 - 3.44j)/divdiv(7.8064 - 6j)/div/div ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment: Whether 1+2j is a literal or an expression is debatable. I think +1 is an expression but 1+2j is a literal; neither should have a space. I’m not sure the language reference and the actual implementation are in agreement here (I have peephole optimizations in mind). -- nosy: +eric.araujo ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Alexander Belopolsky belopol...@users.sourceforge.net added the comment: On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Éric Araujo rep...@bugs.python.org wrote: .. Whether 1+2j is a literal or an expression is debatable. I think +1 is an expression but 1+2j is a literal; neither should have a space. With respect to implementation there is no debate: [TokenInfo(type=57 (ENCODING), string='utf-8', start=(0, 0), end=(0, 0), line=''), TokenInfo(type=2 (NUMBER), string='1', start=(1, 0), end=(1, 1), line='1+1j'), TokenInfo(type=53 (OP), string='+', start=(1, 1), end=(1, 2), line='1+1j'), TokenInfo(type=2 (NUMBER), string='1j', start=(1, 2), end=(1, 4), line='1+1j'), TokenInfo(type=0 (ENDMARKER), string='', start=(2, 0), end=(2, 0), line='')] [TokenInfo(type=57 (ENCODING), string='utf-8', start=(0, 0), end=(0, 0), line=''), TokenInfo(type=53 (OP), string='-', start=(1, 0), end=(1, 1), line='-1'), TokenInfo(type=2 (NUMBER), string='1', start=(1, 1), end=(1, 2), line='-1'), TokenInfo(type=0 (ENDMARKER), string='', start=(2, 0), end=(2, 0), line='')] (Who designed the tokenize interface, btw? I took me 3 tries to come up with the incantation above.) I’m not sure the language reference and the actual implementation are in agreement here (I have peephole optimizations in mind). Literals are atomic to the tokenizer. AST processes a stream of tokens. Peephole optimizations are irrelevant because these are hacks that operate on the bytecode when the lexical structure is all but forgotten. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Alexander Belopolsky belopol...@users.sourceforge.net added the comment: On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Éric Araujo rep...@bugs.python.org wrote: .. Whether 1+2j is a literal or an expression is debatable. I think +1 is an expression but 1+2j is a literal; neither should have a space. With respect to implementation there is no debate: [TokenInfo(type=57 (ENCODING), string='utf-8', start=(0, 0), end=(0, 0), line=''), TokenInfo(type=2 (NUMBER), string='1', start=(1, 0), end=(1, 1), line='1+1j'), TokenInfo(type=53 (OP), string='+', start=(1, 1), end=(1, 2), line='1+1j'), TokenInfo(type=2 (NUMBER), string='1j', start=(1, 2), end=(1, 4), line='1+1j'), TokenInfo(type=0 (ENDMARKER), string='', start=(2, 0), end=(2, 0), line='')] [TokenInfo(type=57 (ENCODING), string='utf-8', start=(0, 0), end=(0, 0), line=''), TokenInfo(type=53 (OP), string='-', start=(1, 0), end=(1, 1), line='-1'), TokenInfo(type=2 (NUMBER), string='1', start=(1, 1), end=(1, 2), line='-1'), TokenInfo(type=0 (ENDMARKER), string='', start=(2, 0), end=(2, 0), line='')] (Who designed the tokenize interface, btw? I took me 3 tries to come up with the incantation above.) I’m not sure the language reference and the actual implementation are in agreement here (I have peephole optimizations in mind). Literals are atomic to the tokenizer. AST processes a stream of tokens. Peephole optimizations are irrelevant because these are hacks that operate on the bytecode when the lexical structure is all but forgotten. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Alexander Belopolsky belopol...@users.sourceforge.net added the comment: And of course, roundup ate my work. The tokenize incantation was pprint(list(tokenize(iter([b'1+1j']).__next__))) -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
New submission from Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com: In Python, the letter 'j' denotes the imaginary unit. It would be great if we would follow mathematics in this regard and let the imaginary unit be denoted with an 'i'. -- components: Interpreter Core messages: 122662 nosy: Retro priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i' type: feature request versions: Python 3.2 ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Changes by Antoine Pitrou pit...@free.fr: -- assignee: - mark.dickinson nosy: +mark.dickinson ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Michael Foord mich...@voidspace.org.uk added the comment: We follow engineering which uses j. (I was about to close this as wontfix but Antoine is particularly keen that Mark deals with this issue...) -- nosy: +michael.foord ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment: Glad to oblige. :-) -- resolution: - wont fix status: open - closed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment: Just to add my own thoughts: 'j' for *a* (not *the* /pedantry) square root of -1 has, as Michael points out, a history of use in engineering (particularly electrical engineering) and physics. Personally, I would have preferred 'i' to 'j' here, but changing it now would cause (IMO) gratuitous breakage. It really doesn't seem a big enough issue to be worth making a fuss about. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: The Python programming language also uses j to denote the imaginary unit. MATLAB associates both i and j with the imaginary unit. -Wikipediahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_unit#Alternative_notations It would be a welcome feature in Python if the programming language would, like MATLAB, associate both i and j with the imaginary unit. -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19858/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___quot;The Python programming language also uses j to denote the imaginary unit. MATLAB associates both i and j with the imaginary unit.quot; -a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_unit#Alternative_notations;Wikipedia/abr brIt would be a welcome feature in Python if the programming language would, like MATLAB, associate both i and j with the imaginary unit. ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Alexander Belopolsky belopol...@users.sourceforge.net added the comment:
Why not allow complex('1i')?
(Tongue in cheek: I am really looking for arguments against lax parsing in
number builtins. See issue 10557.)
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nosy: +belopolsky
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment: It would be a welcome feature in Python if the programming language would, like MATLAB, associate both i and j with the imaginary unit. I suggest taking this to the python-ideas mailing list. A working patch might increase the idea's chances. -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com added the comment:
Why not allow complex('1i')?
Indeed, if 4i were permitted as an imaginary literal, I'd expect to allow
complex('3 + 4i') as well.
(And possible just plain complex('i') too, since complex('j') is currently
allowed. Grr.)
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Alexander Belopolsky belopol...@users.sourceforge.net added the comment:
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Mark Dickinson rep...@bugs.python.org wrote:
..
I'd expect to allow complex('3 + 4i') as well.
And with spaces surrounding '+' too.
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[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Boštjan Mejak bostjan.me...@gmail.com added the comment: It would be great if the feature of having both j and i would exist in the interpreter core, as well as the built-in function complex() to accept i. -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file19860/unnamed ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___It would be great if the feature of having both j and i would exist in the interpreter core, as well as the built-in function complex() to accept i. ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
Antoine Pitrou pit...@free.fr added the comment: (and perhaps a ResourceWarning if you choose something different from i and j) -- ___ Python tracker rep...@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue10562 ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com
[issue10562] Change 'j' for imaginary unit into an 'i'
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