[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Irit Katriel]

Change by Irit Katriel :


--
resolution:  -> out of date
stage: patch review -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Vinay Sajip]

Vinay Sajip  added the comment:

I'd like to close this issue as out of date - anyone object?

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Davin Potts]

Changes by Davin Potts :


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nosy: +davin

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Camilla Montonen]

Camilla Montonen added the comment:

This issue raises the fact that the 2.X documentation 
lists two logging levels (SUBDEBUG and SUBWARNING) 
without explaining how these two fit into the logging 
hierarchy of the logging levels provided by the standard library logging module
(ie, is SUBDEBUG between INFO and DEBUG). 

The patch (provided by JJeffries and modified by Petri Lehtinen) 
adds an explanatory note stating the hierarchy as follows


These are  :const:`SUBWARNING`,
+which fits between :const:`INFO` and :const:`WARNING` in the normal logging
+hierarchy, and :const:`SUBDEBUG`, which fits below :const:`DEBUG`


Review (this applies to the 2.X version of the documentation)

1. It would be nice to clarify that SUBDEBUG is between DEBUG and NOTSET
instead of saying that it is 'below' as this maybe misunderstood (at least it's 
not very clear to me). 

2. Slightly unrelated to the main issue of this patch

2a) "In addition to having these two logging functions, the multiprocessing 
also"

Should be 

"In addition to having these two logging functions, the multiprocessing module 
also"


3. The documentation for the multiprocessing module in Python 3.X has removed 
any mention
of SUBWARNING and SUBDEBUG, so I'm not sure if this patch is even relevant 
anymore?

4. Also, slightly tangent to this patch, but might be nice to pick up is the 
fact that
documentation for the 2.X version mentions that the logging level table can be 
viewed in 
the logging module documentation

"For a full table of logging levels, see the logging module."

which is not the case anymore. As Vinay Sajip mentions, in 2.X the logging 
level table
has moved to the how-to 
https://docs.python.org/2/howto/logging.html#logging-levels 
and so this link should be updated as well


TODO:
1. Check if SUBWARNING and SUBDEBUG are still part of the public API in 3.X and 
then 
suggest alterations to documentation based on that.

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nosy: +Winterflower

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Petri Lehtinen]

Petri Lehtinen pe...@digip.org added the comment:

Should there be another issue opened to do something about the extra logging 
levels?

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Vinay Sajip]

Vinay Sajip vinay_sa...@yahoo.co.uk added the comment:

 Should there be another issue opened to do something about the extra logging 

 levels?

IMO they shouldn't have been added in the first place, but I'm not sure if 
they're part of the public API and hence subject to backward-compatibility 
constraints. It would be nice to hear a justification for them from Jesse (or 
someone else). Of course levels are a bit subjective and logging supports 
user-defined levels for special cases, but using multiple libs with different 
added levels would be a headache. I think at least the stdlib should stick to 
the standard levels.

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Vinay Sajip]

Vinay Sajip vinay_sa...@yahoo.co.uk added the comment:

Although the reference docs don't list the numeric values of logging levels, 
this happened during reorganising of the docs. The table has moved to the HOWTO:

http://docs.python.org/howto/logging.html#logging-levels

That said, I don't understand the need for special logging levels in the 
multiprocessing package. From the section following the one linked to above:

Defining your own levels is possible, but should not be necessary, as the 
existing levels have been chosen on the basis of practical experience. However, 
if you are convinced that you need custom levels, great care should be 
exercised when doing this, and it is possibly *a very bad idea to define custom 
levels if you are developing a library*. That’s because if multiple library 
authors all define their own custom levels, there is a chance that the logging 
output from such multiple libraries used together will be difficult for the 
using developer to control and/or interpret, because a given numeric value 
might mean different things for different libraries.

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nosy: +vinay.sajip

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Petri Lehtinen]

Changes by Petri Lehtinen pe...@digip.org:


--
keywords: +needs review
stage:  - patch review
versions: +Python 3.2

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com added the comment:

I think it would be good to mention the numeric levels in the text as well (in 
parenthesis, perhaps), unless the rest of the logging docs no longer refer to 
the numeric levels.

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nosy: +r.david.murray

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Petri Lehtinen]

Petri Lehtinen pe...@digip.org added the comment:

R. David Murray wrote:
 I think it would be good to mention the numeric levels in the text as well 
 (in parenthesis, perhaps), unless the rest of the logging docs no longer 
 refer to the numeric levels.

AFAICS, there are no numbers in the logging docs anymore.

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Nick Coghlan]

Changes by Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com:


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nosy: +jnoller, ncoghlan

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[JJeffries]

New submission from JJeffries jamesjeffri...@gmail.com:

It is unclear without reference to the logging module where the multiprocessing 
logging levels fit in the normal logging provided by the logging module, even 
though it says above the table

The table below illustrates where theses fit in the
normal level hierarchy.

+++
| Level  | Numeric value  |
+++
| ``SUBWARNING`` | 25 |
+++
| ``SUBDEBUG``   | 5  |
+++

I propose adding further values from the logging module for clarification.

--
assignee: docs@python
components: Documentation
messages: 136839
nosy: JJeffries, docs@python
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: Multiprocessing logging levels unclear
versions: Python 3.3

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Petri Lehtinen]

Petri Lehtinen pe...@digip.org added the comment:

It seems that the documentation of logging no longer gives a table with numeric 
values for levels (I remember seeing it before). Maybe it would be most useful 
to remove the table from multiprocessing documentation and state it explicitly 
that SUBDEBUG is lower than DEBUG and SUBWARNING is between INFO and WARNING.

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[JJeffries]

Changes by JJeffries jamesjeffri...@gmail.com:


--
keywords: +patch
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file22106/multiprocessing_logging.patch

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Petri Lehtinen]

Petri Lehtinen pe...@digip.org added the comment:

The patch is in an invalid format. See 
http://docs.python.org/devguide/patch.html for instructions on working with 
patches. If you cannot/won't use Mercurial, use two separate directories for 
original and modified cpython source tree, and invoke:

diff -urN cpython-orig cpython-modified

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[issue12174] Multiprocessing logging levels unclear

[Petri Lehtinen]

Petri Lehtinen pe...@digip.org added the comment:

Converted the patch by JJeffries to a valid format.

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Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file22110/multiprocessing_logging_2.patch

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