[issue13472] devguide doesn’t list all build dependencies

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing added the comment:

I agree with Jeff's recommendation that this issue is resolved by content 
already in the devguide's Build Dependencies[1].

Jeff, Thanks for helping close an old issue.

[1] https://docs.python.org/devguide/setup.html#build-dependencies

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resolution:  -> out of date
stage: needs patch -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue13472] devguide doesn’t list all build dependencies

[Ned Deily]

Changes by Ned Deily :


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nosy: +willingc

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[issue13472] devguide doesn’t list all build dependencies

[Jeff Ramnani]

Jeff Ramnani added the comment:

So, the devguide has been updated since this issue was opened.  The Quick Start 
section now has a link to build documentation, which includes information about 
build dependencies.  Is this sufficient to call this bug closed?

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nosy: +jramnani

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[issue13472] devguide doesn’t list all build dependencies

[Berker Peksag]

Changes by Berker Peksag :


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components: +Devguide
keywords: +easy

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[issue13472] devguide doesn’t list all build dependencies

[Tshepang Lekhonkhobe]

Changes by Tshepang Lekhonkhobe :


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nosy: +tshepang

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[issue13472] devguide doesn’t list all build dependencies

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo  added the comment:

> I have a few arguments in favor of my position:
Hm, I said that people wanted a “feature-full library” but I was confused: 
We’re talking about a Python built for contributing, not to develop your app, 
so my argument does not apply.  So, the devguide should list the optional build 
deps *and* say something like “these are not needed to run Python and its test 
suite, but you may need one them of for some patches”.

> (I've found and fixed several issues related to zlib because it was missing 
> here)
I know :)  I have a Python built without threads and run packaging and 
distutils tests with it from time to time, but it seems I can’t disable zlib at 
configure time.

>> the addition of this message and further edits to its wording were done
>> exactly to avoid people worrying that their python binary is not usable.
> But it's still missing an "optional" before modules imho.
What I meant is that the history of this messages says that you can just go 
ahead and add “optional”.

> The second message that says to "look in setup.py in detect_modules()" 
> doesn't seem too
> useful too (but maybe I should take a look ;).
It is scary code.

>> Okay; do we need to collect info for all major OSes
> You can also do it incrementally
Okay, I’ll make a patch.

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[issue13472] devguide doesn’t list all build dependencies

[Ezio Melotti]

Ezio Melotti  added the comment:

> I think about it in the reverse: You want a featurefull library, and 
> disable some things (zlib, ssl, threads) only if you specifically 
> don’t want them (if you’re a Twisted fan for example ).

I have a few arguments in favor of my position:
1) Python and its test suite should always run without errors, even when some 
dependencies are missing (I've found and fixed several issues related to zlib 
because it was missing here);
2) The default Python installed with the OS will use whatever dependencies are 
already provided, so if you add all the missing ones manually, you'll be 
testing in a scenario that is different from the "default" one (you might argue 
that if no one installs all the missing dependencies, we can't know if they all 
work together everywhere (IIRC at some point we had a discussion about having a 
buildbot without the optional dependencies too));
3) Hard work pays off later. Laziness pays off now!

> the addition of this message and further edits to its wording were done
> exactly to avoid people worrying that their python binary is not usable.

But it's still missing an "optional" before modules imho.  The second message 
that says to "look in setup.py in detect_modules()" doesn't seem too useful too 
(but maybe I should take a look ;).  There are a couple of threads on 
Core-Mentorship by people that got confused by these messages (and some include 
discussions about finding the dependencies).

> Okay; do we need to collect info for all major OSes
> (I’m taking the list of stable 3.2 buildbots to determine “major”)?

You can also do it incrementally, adding e.g. "For Debian and derivative 
systems you can use ``aptitude build-dep pythonX.Y``." and then add other items 
to the list as soon as we figure them out (you can also try to figure them out 
in advanced, as long as finding the command for some obscure platform doesn't 
keep on hold the list of commands for other well known platforms).

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[issue13472] devguide doesn’t list all build dependencies

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo  added the comment:

> Moreover these dependencies are optional, so there's no need to install them 
> unless they are
> specifically needed
I think about it in the reverse: You want a featurefull library, and disable 
some things (zlib, ssl, threads) only if you specifically don’t want them (if 
you’re a Twisted fan for example ).

> (on a related note I would also add an "optional" in the warning that says 
> "Python build
> finished, but the necessary bits to build these modules were not found" -- 
> I've seen enough
> people complaining that the build "failed" because this dependencies were 
> missing).
Sure.  I read all changesets for Python’s setup.py recently (don’t judge) and 
the addition of this message and further edits to its wording were done exactly 
to avoid people worrying that their python binary is not usable.

> Explaining how to get them in the build page sounds fine to me.
Okay; do we need to collect info for all major OSes (I’m taking the list of 
stable 3.2 buildbots to determine “major”)?

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[issue13472] devguide doesn’t list all build dependencies

[Ezio Melotti]

Ezio Melotti  added the comment:

I agree with Antoine, there's no need to mention them in the quickstart.  
Moreover these dependencies are optional, so there's no need to install them 
unless they are specifically needed (on a related note I would also add an 
"optional" in the warning that says "Python build finished, but the necessary 
bits to build these modules were not found" -- I've seen enough people 
complaining that the build "failed" because this dependencies were missing).
Explaining how to get them in the build page sounds fine to me.

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stage:  -> needs patch

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[issue13472] devguide doesn’t list all build dependencies

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo  added the comment:

Okay.  I just hope that people following the quick start and having build 
issues will follow the link.

I followed it and the section only mentions zlib, I think it could be 
exhaustive.

--
title: Quick Start in devguide doesn’t mention build dependencies -> devguide 
doesn’t list all build dependencies

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