[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Update: as of 3.6.8rc1 and the eventual 2.7.16rc1, both installer variants 
(10.9+ and 10.6+) provide a built-in Tcl/Tk 8.6.8. For python.org installers, 
Tcl/Tk 8.5.x is finally dead!

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:


New changeset d0d09b511d7a438fb18a9a4703480763119b4eac by Ned Deily in branch 
'2.7':
[2.7] bpo-15663: the 10.6+ macOS installers for 3.6/2.7 now provide a private 
Tcl/Tk 8.6 (GH-0)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/d0d09b511d7a438fb18a9a4703480763119b4eac


--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:


New changeset f74cabd9203cf3be97fdb3821a7fa0b74d7b2263 by Ned Deily in branch 
'3.6':
[3.6] bpo-15663: the 10.6+ macOS installers for 3.6/2.7 now provide a private 
Tcl/Tk 8.6 (GH-11109)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/f74cabd9203cf3be97fdb3821a7fa0b74d7b2263


--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


--
pull_requests: +10339

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


--
pull_requests: +10338

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Update: as of 3.7.0b3, both 3.7.0 installer variants (10.9+ and 10.6+) provide 
a built-in Tcl/Tk 8.6.8.  And 3.6.5 and 2.7.15 also provide a 10.9+ installer 
variant with the built-in Tcl/Tk 8.6.8.  (For the moment, the 3.6.5 and 2.7.15 
10.6+ 64-bit/32-bit installers still link with an external Tcl/Tk 8.5.x.)

--
versions: +Python 2.7, Python 3.6

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

As of 3.7.0b1, the new macOS 10.9+ installer variant includes a private copy of 
Tcl/Tk 8.6: 8.6.7 for 3.7.0b1, updated to 8.6.8 for 3.7.0b2.  The framework 
layout is pretty much the same as in the original attempt, that is, everything 
is installed within /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework.  One big thing that 
has changed since the previous attempt: thanks to work by Matthew Brett et al, 
major Python packages that had C code referencing Tk (like matplotlib and 
Pillow) now discover Tcl and Tk symbols dynamically at run time rather than 
having to compile with a particular Tcl/Tk version's header files. That was the 
hangup previously because third-party apps had hardcoded paths to the Tcl/Tk 
header files on macOS.  Hopefully, there aren't many of those left and, if so, 
they can borrow code from matplotlib 
(https://github.com/matplotlib/matplotlib/pull/6442).  The legacy 10.6+ 
installer variants still link with Tcl/Tk 8.5.x from 
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework (a la ActiveTcl); ActiveS
 tate now only provides 8.6.x packages for macOS 10.9+ and Tk 8.6.x gets little 
exposure on older systems and depends more and more on features in newer macOS 
releases.

--
resolution:  -> fixed
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed
versions: +Python 3.7 -Python 3.6

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Is there anything left to do for this?  The new 64 bit MacOS 3.7.0b1 links with 
8.6.7.  Perhaps that should be updated to 8.6.8.

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Caleb Hattingh]

Changes by Caleb Hattingh :


--
nosy: +cjrh

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Aivar Annamaa]

Aivar Annamaa added the comment:

install_name_tool can specify relative paths (see eg. 
https://wincent.com/wiki/@executable_path,_@load_path_and_@rpath). Therefore 
you don't need it in users' systems.

I've used it successfully for bundling Python 3.5 and Tk 8.6 with my IDE, see 
https://bitbucket.org/plas/thonny/src/master/packaging
/mac/build_requirements_old.sh and 
https://bitbucket.org/plas/thonny/src/master/packaging/mac/update_links.sh

--
nosy: +Aivar.Annamaa

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Ronald Oussoren]

Ronald Oussoren added the comment:

W.r.t. install_name_tool: macholib (PyPI project) contains functionality to do 
this work in pure python.   

I do not propose to include macholib in the stdlib, it is too special purpose 
and not everyone that has provided patches is a CPython contributor (although 
the majority of the work was done by Bob Ippolito)

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily added the comment:

"the install_name_tool lets you point a shared library at a different dependent 
shared library than the one it was originally compiled to link against"

Yes, but I'm not sure how we can take advantage of that.  First, keep in mind 
that there is only one version of _tkinter.so per Python installation and that 
is used by all tkinter applications, not just IDLE.  Second, the 
install_name_tool is not part of the base OS X system; it is included with 
either Xcode.app or the Command Line Tools package.  So we can't assume it will 
be available on users' systems.  And, third, changing the Tk library path may 
still break other third-party Python packages that also link directly with Tk 
and expect it to be in {/System}/Library/Frameworks.

"Secondly, we may want to consider adding something post-install (in IDLE?) 
where it would detect at least simpler cases of greatly out-of-date Tcl/Tk and 
offer to download and install a new one." 

That could be a useful addition and one that we could probably do in the 
context of a maintenance release.  The main problem I see with that is what to 
offer to install.  Since there is no truly open-source compatible option, I 
think we would need to provide our own Tcl/Tk 8.5.x package to install.  It's 
something to consider.

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Mark Roseman]

Mark Roseman added the comment:

Thanks Ned. 

A couple of things. First, you probably know about this, but for future 
reference in case it might be useful, the install_name_tool lets you point a 
shared library at a different dependent shared library than the one it was 
originally compiled to link against (see end of 
http://www.tkdocs.com/tutorial/fonts.html). This can be sometimes helpful in 
resolving compatibility issues. 

Secondly, we may want to consider adding something post-install (in IDLE?) 
where it would detect at least simpler cases of greatly out-of-date Tcl/Tk and 
offer to download and install a new one. If it were in IDLE, this would have 
the advantage of not affecting everyone who installs Python, but only (a subset 
of) those who would benefit. Plus, not being a "you must decide now" like an 
installer, it could be deferred if people weren't sure. And it would offer to 
provide a bit more active assistance rather than only "go read a web page".

--

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com

[issue15663] Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily added the comment:

Due to our maintenance release compatibility guidelines, I don't think it is 
possible to change the Tcl/Tk versions for currently released Python versions 
(e.g 3.5.x, 3.4.x, and 2.7.x), or, at least, it is not possible to remove 
support for 8.5 in them.  To do so would break important existing third-party 
packages which supply binary distributions (as wheels or as binary installers). 
 So the target for shipping python.org OS X Pythons built with (and including) 
an 8.6 Tcl/Tk would be in the next feature release, 3.6.  There *might* be ways 
to include 8.6 as an option with future maintenance releases but it would have 
to be without breaking current 8.5 (or 8.4) binary support.  In any case, for 
3.6 there will likely be major changes in how we ship pre-built Pythons for OS 
X.

--
title: Investigate providing Tcl/Tk 8.5 with OS X installers -> Investigate 
providing Tcl/Tk 8.6 with OS X installers
versions: +Python 3.6 -Python 3.4

___
Python tracker 

___
___
Python-bugs-list mailing list
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-bugs-list/archive%40mail-archive.com