[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[J.P]

Change by J.P :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes  added the comment:


New changeset 666991fc598bc312d72aff0078ecb553f0a968f1 by Christian Heimes in 
branch 'master':
bpo-18233: Add internal methods to access peer chain (GH-25467)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/666991fc598bc312d72aff0078ecb553f0a968f1


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Change by Christian Heimes :


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pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/25467

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Chris Burr]

Change by Chris Burr :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[JustAnotherArchivist]

Change by JustAnotherArchivist :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Chris Burr]

Chris Burr  added the comment:

Hi Zack, I've already opened a PR that is loosely based on this patch. If you 
have time to give it a review I'd appreciate the extra set of eyes.

https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/17938

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Zack Weinberg]

Zack Weinberg  added the comment:

I have yet another use case for the function implemented by this patch (i.e. 
retrieving the cert chain actually sent by the server, regardless of whether 
that gives a path to a trust anchor).  I'm implementing a network forensics 
tool, and one of the situations it's supposed to detect is when a 
man-in-the-middle is attempting to substitute its own cert for a site's 
"legitimate" cert (yes, possibly having suborned a public CA in order to do 
so).  To make all of the planned heuristics for this work correctly, I need to 
record exactly what came over the wire.

If it would be useful for me to dust off the patch and/or implement the _other_ 
function that people requested (retrieve the chain that OpenSSL concluded was a 
valid chain to an accepted trust anchor)  I can probably scare up time to do so 
in the next week or two.  I imagine it's too late for 3.8 patch releases at 
this point, but assuming I did this, could it make 3.9?

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Kent Watsen]

Kent Watsen  added the comment:

I agree that having both would be best, but there is a world of difference 
between a must-have (peer_cert_chain) and what seems to be a nice-to-have 
(authed_peer_cert_chain).

My request for clarification was not that I don't understand bags, etc. (see my 
first message), but that I don't understand the concrete use case in mind.  
That is, when is it that the app-logic would differ because the EE cert 
validated using one path versus another?

To explain the 'must-have' better, imagine one peer sending [A, B, C], where 
'A' is the EE cert, and the other peer having TA [F, E, D], where 'F' is the 
self-signed root TA and 'D' is the Issuer that signed 'C'.  The complete chain 
is [A-F] and this is what the SSL-level code will use during the handshake.  
But post-handshake, without peer_chain_cert(), there is NO WAY for the 
app-logic to create a valid chain.  This is broken, for the reason mentioned in 
my first message.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Nathaniel Smith]

Nathaniel Smith  added the comment:

I'm not sure I agree about assuming that users will be able to work around 
these issues... I mean, nothing personal, I'm sure you're well-informed and 
maybe your code would work fine, but if you don't understand my example then 
how can you be entirely confident that you really understand all the risks that 
your code needs to watch out for?

Anyway, the proposed PR exposes both methods, so that's not a problem; it's 
just waiting on someone with openssl expertise like Christian to review it.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Kent Watsen]

Kent Watsen  added the comment:

It seems that we're talking about the same thing, but I want the cert-chain the 
peer sent without any smarts, exactly how OpenSSL's SSL_get_peer_cert_chain() 
works and, importantly, without stapling any root chain certs the client did 
not send itself (though it's okay if the client did, in which case those certs 
should be included).

I'm not following your "I pass the chain [A, leaf cert]" comment, if leaf-cert 
is signed by B, then this should obviously fail.  Maybe you meant to say that A 
and B are loaded into a bag and that validation test is [bag, leaf-cert]?

Regardless, I don't think Python should coddle developers.  Assuming the docs 
are accurate, competent developers with crypto-clue will be fine.  Many crypto 
library docs encourage tourists to stay away.   That said, if smarts are 
wanted, let's choose a name that doesn't overlap with the existing OpenSSL 
name...get_authed_cert_chain() ?

But, please, can a "peer_cert_chain()" wrapping the OpenSSL call be release 
ASAP, buying time to ponder the merits of smart calls for another day?

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Nathaniel Smith]

Nathaniel Smith  added the comment:

> For the concern issue, as I understand it, the ability to call getpeercert() 
> or the proposed getpeercertchain() is only after the TLS session has been 
> established.  As such, the SSL socket already established that there exists a 
> valid chain of trust.  Thus these methods are primarily to provide visibility 
> into what the peer passed *after* it had been authenticated, right?

The issue is that "the cert chain provided by the client" and "the cert chain 
that was validated as trustworthy" might be different. For example, say you 
have trust roots A and B, and I have a leaf certificate with a valid signature 
by B. If I pass the chain [A, leaf cert], then openssl's trust validation code 
might look at that and say "yep, this leaf cert is signed by root B, I trust 
root B, cool, the connection is good. Also there's a random A cert here, but 
whatever, that doesn't change anything".

In this case, for your use case, you want to get back the chain [B, leaf cert], 
because that's the chain that was actually validated. If you instead got the 
chain the client gave you, then you might be fooled into thinking that this 
cert chained to root A, when it actually didn't, and make the wrong trust 
decision.

That's why we need to be careful to distinguish between these two possible 
chains.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Kent Watsen]

Kent Watsen  added the comment:

I don't understand the concern issues being raised for this patch, and also may 
have a use-case not mentioned yet.

For the concern issue, as I understand it, the ability to call getpeercert() or 
the proposed getpeercertchain() is only after the TLS session has been 
established.  As such, the SSL socket already established that there exists a 
valid chain of trust.  Thus these methods are primarily to provide visibility 
into what the peer passed *after* it had been authenticated, right?

That said, the reason I want to access the entire certificate chain passed by 
the client (i.e., client cert auth) is in order to validate that the client's 
cert (which may include some intermediates) authenticates to a specific trust 
anchor, rather than the bag of trust anchors loaded into the SSLContext (via 
load_verify_locations()) in order to authenticate a multiplicity of clients, 
each potentially leading to a different trust anchor.  

Not having getpeercertchain() means that all no client cert may contain a 
chain, i.e., the clients only ever transmit the end-entity cert itself.  This 
is unfortunate because the underlying SSL socket actually allows clients to 
send chains, it's just the lack being able to access the peercertchain in my 
code that seems to limit the solution.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Chris Burr]

Change by Chris Burr :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Chris Burr]

Change by Chris Burr :


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pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/17938

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Nathaniel Smith]

Nathaniel Smith  added the comment:

There's another important use case for this, that hasn't been discussed here. 
If you want to use openssl for TLS + the system trust store to verify 
certificates, then you need to disable openssl's certificate validation, 
perform the handshake, and then extract the certificate chain that there peer 
sent and pass it to the system native APIs to validate.

For this case, we don't need to do any validation or resolution on the chain – 
we just want to pull out the DER that the peer sent. AFAICT, the lack of this 
functionality is the one major blocker to using the system trust store with the 
'ssl' module.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Hiroaki Kawai]

Change by Hiroaki Kawai :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[chaen]

chaen  added the comment:

There is another very valid use case which is even described by an RFC: 
https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3820.txt

And openssl supports this RFC. 

These proxy certificates are heavily used in the world of high energy physics 
computing, and having the get_peer_cert_chain exposed in python would allow to 
use standard tools. 

And any hope this would also be backported to the python 2.7 branch ?

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Change by Christian Heimes :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes added the comment:

Yes, from an application perspective there is an import difference between 
X509_STORE_CTX_get1_chain() and SSL_get0_verified_chain(). X509_STORE_CTX is a 
temporary object. It is only available during the handshake and while the trust 
chain is built and verified. Once the chain is verified, it is no longer 
available.

SSL_get0_verified_chain() sounds like an actual good solution. Thanks for 
pointing it out.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[joernheissler]

joernheissler added the comment:

Hi,
I'd like to see this feature too.

My use case is a monitoring script to check the life time of the server 
certificate, including the chain. I would prefer to have a wrapper around 
SSL_get_peer_cert_chain.
I understand that this is *not* a verified chain. That's okay.

openssl-1.1 added a new function SSL_get0_verified_chain which may be safer for 
most applications. Is there any real difference to X509_STORE_CTX_get1_chain?

If you're worried about people misusing these functions, add a warning in the 
docs and point them to "get_peer_verified_chain"?

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Chet Nichols III]

Chet Nichols III added the comment:

Oh yeah, definitely not trustworthy at all. In my case, I am not processing the 
peer chain to actually verify trust, but I am still interested in inspecting 
the chain.

Dangerous or not, and regardless of what almost all people should *actually* be 
doing, SSL_get_peer_cert_chain exists for a reason, just like 
SSL_get_peer_certificate exists for a reason. If Python includes a standard SSL 
library, it should be transparent in the interface it offers, for the mere 
reason that the library becomes more powerful.

If the overall consensus is that the library should protect most people against 
common pitfalls and security mistakes, then I guess that's the route to 
continue on. However, I would be disappointed that we would be blacklisting  
the exposure of underlying library features based on the mere belief that 
people don't understand them enough!

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Dustin Oprea]

Dustin Oprea added the comment:

Thanks for expounding on this, Christian. Assuming your assertions are
correct, this makes perfect sense.

Can anyone listening close this?

On May 12, 2017 17:45, "Christian Heimes"  wrote:

Christian Heimes added the comment:

The ticket is dead for a very good reason. Past me was not clever enough
and didn't know about the difference between the cert chain sent by the
peer and the actual trust chain. The peer's cert chain is not trustworthy
and must *only* be used to build the actual trust chain. X.509 chain trust
chain construction is a tricky business.

Although I thought that peer cert chain is a useful piece of information,
it is also dangerous. It's simply not trustworthy. In virtually all cases
you want to know the chain of certificates that leads from a local trust
anchor to the end-entity cert. In most cases it just happens to be the same
(excluding root CA). But that's not reliable.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes added the comment:

The ticket is dead for a very good reason. Past me was not clever enough and 
didn't know about the difference between the cert chain sent by the peer and 
the actual trust chain. The peer's cert chain is not trustworthy and must 
*only* be used to build the actual trust chain. X.509 chain trust chain 
construction is a tricky business.

Although I thought that peer cert chain is a useful piece of information, it is 
also dangerous. It's simply not trustworthy. In virtually all cases you want to 
know the chain of certificates that leads from a local trust anchor to the 
end-entity cert. In most cases it just happens to be the same (excluding root 
CA). But that's not reliable.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Chet Nichols III]

Chet Nichols III added the comment:

Is this dead at this point? Just stumbled upon it, and I'm hopeful that maybe 
there's still a chance, since it's still `open`. :)

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Mariusz Masztalerczuk]

Mariusz Masztalerczuk added the comment:

ping! :) 
Could someone look at my changes? :)

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Mariusz Masztalerczuk]

Mariusz Masztalerczuk added the comment:

Hello :)

I'm not sure why patches created by christian.heimes is not merged to python, 
but because last patch was created in 2013, I've created a new version of this 
patch.

What do you think about it?

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Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file45057/ssl_peercertchain3.patch

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Changes by Christian Heimes :


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components: +SSL

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Changes by Christian Heimes :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Miroslav Shubernetskiy]

Changes by Miroslav Shubernetskiy :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Changes by Christian Heimes :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Changes by Christian Heimes :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Dustin Oprea]

Dustin Oprea added the comment:

Disregard. I thought this was something else.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Dustin Oprea]

Dustin Oprea added the comment:

Forget it. This project is dead.

Dustin
On May 28, 2015 11:58 AM, "Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven" <
rep...@bugs.python.org> wrote:

>
> Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven added the comment:
>
> Given that cryptography.io is fast becoming the solution for dealing with
> X.509 certificates on Python, I would like to add my vote to add my vote
> for this feature. Right now, getting the full chain in DER is what I am
> missing to complete a task at work.
>
> --
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>
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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven]

Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven added the comment:

Given that cryptography.io is fast becoming the solution for dealing with X.509 
certificates on Python, I would like to add my vote to add my vote for this 
feature. Right now, getting the full chain in DER is what I am missing to 
complete a task at work.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Derek Wilson]

Derek Wilson added the comment:

I could really use this sooner than later... and sometimes having a 
full-featured (or even secure) interface is not what you want.

Consider zmap and masscan etc and ssl mapping (similar to what the EFF did a 
couple years back - https://www.eff.org/observatory - but with the full chain 
instead of just the cert). The desire here would be low level, low overhead, no 
validation on the fly: All you want is the cert chain.

There are plenty of research and security applications where a simple wrapper 
around OpenSSL that returns DER bytes would be desirable. Please reconsider 
this patch for inclusion in 3.4 ...

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Changes by Christian Heimes :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes added the comment:

It's just nice to have for debugging and extended verification.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou added the comment:

@Dustin

> My two-cents is to leave it a tuple (why not?).

Because tuples are more used for struct-like data. Here we are returning an 
unknown number of homogenous objects, which generally calls for a list.

@Christian

> I'd rather return a list or tuple of X509 objects but #18369 won't be ready 
> for 3.4. Ideas?

Unless the feature is really important to have right now, I think it's ok to 
defer it until we have X509 objects.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes added the comment:

I'd rather return a list or tuple of X509 objects but #18369 won't be ready for 
3.4. Ideas?

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Dustin Oprea]

Dustin Oprea added the comment:

My two-cents is to leave it a tuple (why not?).



Dustin

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou added the comment:

Sorry for the incorrect answer. I just noticed there was a test in the patch!
Further looking at it, I notice the new function is returning a tuple. Wouldn't 
it be better to return a list here?

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou added the comment:

The patch needs a test, a proper doc, and reviewing.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Dustin Oprea]

Dustin Oprea added the comment:

I was about to submit a feature request to add exactly this. The [second] patch 
works like a charm. When are you going to land on a particular resolution so 
that it can get committed in?



Dustin

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Donald Stufft]

Changes by Donald Stufft :


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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes added the comment:

>From Rietveld review:

---
http://bugs.python.org/review/18233/diff/8422/Modules/_ssl.c#newcode1203
Modules/_ssl.c:1203: chain = X509_STORE_CTX_get1_chain(store_ctx);
This isn't appropriate for this method. Specifically, you are asking for
the peer cert chain, which purposefully does not include root CA certs
that you trust. What you are giving here a complete validate chain from
a peer cert to a trusted root. This is a valuable piece of information,
but should be returned via another method (perhaps exposed in python as
get1chain in SSLContext). But this method should always return the
result of SSL_get_peer_cert_chain if a peer cert chain is available.
---

You are making a good point. I'm either going to split it up into two function 
or provide a way to look up a cert by issuer.

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Derek Wilson]

Changes by Derek Wilson :


--
nosy: +Derek.Wilson

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Michele Orrù]

Changes by Michele Orrù :


--
nosy: +maker

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Jesús Cea Avión]

Changes by Jesús Cea Avión :


--
nosy: +jcea

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes added the comment:

As expected it is much harder to get the full certification chain from OpenSSL 
than I initially expected. SSL_get_peer_cert_chain() doesn't return the root 
CA's certificate. The new patch introduces a validation mode and uses 
X509_verify_cert(*X509_STORE_CTX) + X509_STORE_CTX_get1_chain() to build a full 
chain.

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30622/ssl_peerchertchain2.patch

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Antoine Pitrou]

Changes by Antoine Pitrou :


--
dependencies: +SSL: diagnostic functions to list loaded CA certs

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[issue18233] SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()

[Christian Heimes]

New submission from Christian Heimes:

The patch implements a method getpeercertchain() on a SSLSocket. It returns the 
peer's certificate chain from the leaf cert to the root cert if available. It 
wraps SSL_get_peer_cert_chain().

SSL_get_peer_cert_chain() doesn't have to pull any additional data from the 
peer. The information is already exchanged for cert validation.

--
files: ssl_peerchertchain.patch
keywords: patch
messages: 191287
nosy: christian.heimes
priority: normal
severity: normal
stage: patch review
status: open
title: SSLSocket.getpeercertchain()
type: enhancement
versions: Python 3.4
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30611/ssl_peerchertchain.patch

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