[issue18444] IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I closed #17060 as a duplicate of this.  Roger Serwy there said
 "The .home_callback() in Lib/idlelib/EditorWindow.py contains the logic from 
#3851 for placing the cursor at the beginning of the prompt, but it requires 
that a key combination be bound to the beginning-of-line virtual event.

Should we append " " to the begining-of-line config in 
Lib/idlelib/config-keys.def ?"

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assignee:  -> terry.reedy
stage:  -> test needed
type:  -> behavior

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[issue18444] IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Changes by Terry J. Reedy :


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versions: +Python 3.6, Python 3.7 -Python 2.7, Python 3.4

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[issue18444] IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

[Mark Roseman]

Changes by Mark Roseman :


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[issue18444] IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

[Ronald Oussoren]

Ronald Oussoren added the comment:

Raymond: good to hear that using fn+F5 is not a problem for new users

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[issue18444] IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

[Ronald Oussoren]

Ronald Oussoren added the comment:

IIRC the key bindings that are currently used on OSX basicly are partially 
based on the key bindings on classic macos, and partially on using the CMD 
key instead of the ALT key.

It would be nice to have a clean set of key bindings for OSX that's based on 
the default key bindings for text widgets in Cocoa[1], with logical additions 
for IDLE-specific functionality.

It would also be nice if the key bindings for the various platforms could be 
kept in sync [2], that makes it easier to switch between platforms and is 
easier for educators. 

BTW. I don't think it using function keys for key bindings is necessarily a 
good idea on OSX. I'm pretty sure that the default keyboard settings on OSX 
require two key presses to use a function key on OSX laptops (the fn key and 
the actual function key) because the keys are used for their hardware control 
role without the fn key (that is, fn + f8 is F8, while just f8 is 
play/pauze). A number of function keys also have system-wide shortcuts (such 
as show desktop), I'm not sure if those shortcuts are still enabled by 
default on new installs.


[1] More or less documented here: 
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/cocoa/Conceptual/EventOverview/TextDefaultsBindings/TextDefaultsBindings.html,
 the file 
/System/Library/Frameworks/AppKit.framework/Resources/StandardKeyBinding.dict 
is a (binary) plist that contains the default keybinding.

[2] With the obvious differences, such as using the CMD key on OSX and ALT on 
Windows.

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nosy: +ronaldoussoren

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[issue18444] IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily added the comment:

I think that those two requirements, i.e. (1) a set of key bindings compatible 
with standard Cocoa text key bindings and (2) a set of key bindings kept in 
sync across all IDLE platforms, would be desirable but probably unattainable.  
A good next step would be for someone to make a table of the IDLE key bindings 
across the various keysets and platforms.  That would make it easier to make 
informed design decisions.

The Classic Unix keyset is quite different, with emacs-like multiple key 
strokes (like Ctrl-X Ctrl-N for New Window).  I wonder how widely it is used. 
For OS X, we have the aforementioned conflicts with system accelerators and 
with the Cocoa Tk we have already had to disable some common accelerators (like 
Cmd-M for Open Module..) because of conflicts with Cocoa Tk's builtin 
accelerators and the as-yet-unresolved Ctrl-5 and Ctrl-6 crashes (Issue16023).  
The X11 situation is a mess with Option and Command being reversed and, yes, 
there are still users of Python with X11 Tk on OS X (for one, MacPorts provides 
it as the default option).  Perhaps the best solution for it is a separate OS X 
X11 keyset.

Re function keys: I created a new user account on a current OS X 10.8 (with a 
US keyboard on a MacBook Pro).  It seems that function keys are enabled by 
default.  This is controlled by a checkbox setting in the Keyboard panel of 
System Preferences.  With the box checked (the default), you have to press the 
fn modifier key to enable the hardware control functions.  Inspecting the 
default set of Keyboard Shortcuts in the panel, the only F(n) keys defined are 
F11, F12, Cmd-F5, Opt-Cmd-F5, and Ctrl-F1 through Ctrl-F7.  This conforms to 
the current OS X Human Interface Guidelines, Appendix A Keyboard Shortcuts, 
with the addition that the entire range F8 through F12 are marked as Apple 
reserved.  (Interestingly, the guidelines do not note that Ctrl-Left and 
Ctrl-Right are now used by Mission Control by default.)

That said, it would be great if IDLE could more closely follow the OS X Human 
Interface Guidelines, including the accessibility guidelines for Universal 
Access.  Of course, IDLE is very much dependent on Tk in these matters.  So 
trying to improve things will require a fair amount of research and 
experimentation with the Apple docs, Tk code, and IDLE itself.  It would be a 
good project for someone interested in practical User Experience design.

Additional references:

https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/KeyboardShortcuts/KeyboardShortcuts.html

https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/OSXAXIntro/OSXAXintro.html

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/Site/System%20Bindings.html

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[issue18444] IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

[Raymond Hettinger]

Raymond Hettinger added the comment:

 BTW. I don't think it using function keys for key bindings is 
 necessarily a good idea on OSX. I'm pretty sure that the default
 keyboard settings on OSX require two key presses to use a function
 key on OSX laptops

On Mac laptops, there is separate fn key that enables the function keys.  
Users press fn and F5 to run a script from IDLE.

I teach Python classes to Mac users and they are are no problems at all with 
the function keys.

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[issue18444] IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily added the comment:

The reason for the observed behavior is that the built-in IDLE Classic OSX 
keyset, which is the default for OS X framework installs, has a different 
keybinding for beginning-of-line.  See Lib/idlelib/config-key.def

[IDLE Classic OSX]
...
beginning-of-line = Control-Key-Left

I'm not sure why the decision was made to use this binding originally.  
Unfortunately, on current OS X systems (with US keyboards at least) 
Control-Left is preemptively defined as the default system Mission Contol 
keyboard shortcut to Move left a space (e.g a desktop) so, by default, Tk 
(and, hence, IDLE) never sees it.  This can be seen by going to System 
Preferences - Keyboard - Keyboard Shortcuts - Mission Control.  You can 
temporarily disable or change Move left a space and verify that then 
Control-L does perform as expected.  You can also verify that changing the IDLE 
keyset to IDLE Classic Windows redefines beginning-of-line to Control-A and 
Home.

There are a number of other problematic (non-functional) key bindings in the 
IDLE Classic OSX keyset depending on a number of factors: which Tk variant is 
in use (Cocoa Tk, Carbon Tk, X11 Tk), System Preferences keyboard shortcuts, 
possibly which keyboard and which system input method are in use.  For more 
info on some of the hard-to-fathom Tk differences see: http://wiki.tcl.tk/28331

After spending some time trying to understand how this all works or doesn't 
across the various Tk's, I am coming to the conclusion that we need to define a 
new set of default key bindings for OS X, one that generally avoids as much as 
possible the use of Command key and Option key accelerators, as these tend to 
be especially problematic either in Tk or with system conflicts, and, instead, 
use Fn keys for non-trivial accelerators.

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[issue18444] IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily added the comment:

er, Lib/idlelib/config-keys.def

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[issue18444] IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

[Todd Rovito]

Todd Rovito added the comment:

Ned,
   Thanks for such a thorough comment this saved me lots of time now I don't 
have to dig so deeply into the problem.


After spending some time trying to understand how this all works or doesn't 
across the various Tk's, I am coming to the conclusion that we need to define a 
new set of default key bindings for OS X, one that generally avoids as much as 
possible the use of Command key and Option key accelerators, as these tend to 
be especially problematic either in Tk or with system conflicts, and, instead, 
use Fn keys for non-trivial accelerators.

I like your purposed solution so I will look into trying to creat a new key 
binding for OS X.

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[issue18444] IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

[Todd Rovito]

New submission from Todd Rovito:

covers point 1.1) Pressing the Home key moves the cursor before the  
prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.

This issues was fixed on Windows XP and Linux here 
http://bugs.python.org/issue3851


On Mac OS X the home key is control-A or function left arrow both have the 
same effect of moving the cursor left of prompt, which them makes the keyboard 
unresponsive.  I tested this with Python 3.4 and Python 2.7 on Mac OS X 10.8.4.

--
components: IDLE
messages: 193025
nosy: Todd.Rovito, roger.serwy, terry.reedy
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: IDLE: Mac OS X pressing ctrl-A in Python shell moved cursor before the 
prompt, which then makes the keyboard unresponsive.
versions: Python 2.7, Python 3.4

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