[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

#41075 is specifically about history navigation.  I tried Shift/Control/Alt - 
Up/Down and none worked.  Rebinding just Up/Down did (in Shell, with Editor 
unchanged).  But not having up/down work to move between lines in the Shell 
multiline statement entry area is not acceptable to me.  Two additional idea 
from the new issue: a) Add history commands to context menu to make them more 
discoverable; b) When statement has SyntaxError, put Error message in box and 
let user edit bad code directly, as in Editor.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Terry J. Reedy]

Change by Terry J. Reedy :


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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Terry J. Reedy]

Changes by Terry J. Reedy :


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stage: needs patch -> patch review
versions: +Python 3.6, Python 3.7 -Python 2.7, Python 3.4, Python 3.5

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[irdb]

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Mark Roseman]

Changes by Mark Roseman :


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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

The PyShell patch does two things that I want to consider separately, and 
carefully, along with other possible solutions to the perceived problems.

1. Go to end-of-file when entering a letter or number in a read-only text area. 
In msg110889 Tal says Note that not only letter/number keys should be passed 
on. I see the point, but expanding the set seems to me a complication and a 
move in the wrong direction.  Doing nothing, or maybe beeping, is a normal 
response to entry in a read-only area. Regardless of what I wrote before, I am 
not completely comfortable with adding magical behavior.

The fixed key-binding for goto-file-end is cntl-end (command-end). I propose 
adding tab as a synonym. Currently, it sometimes opens a completion box even 
in read-only areas, where it is useless and annoying. This should be changed 
anyway, and having it cause the cursor to jump to me seems to fit with its 
indent behavior.

2. Make up and down do double duty to both traverse statements in the 
history and lines within the current statement.  However, the complicated rules 
to juggle two roles, in msg68299, make my head hurt. I would rather use Shift-, 
cntl-, or alt- up/down instead.

The fundamental issue, touched on by Cherniavsky Beni in msg67706, is that 
Python is not a command-line language. It is a statement language. It does not 
fit well in a command-line terminal where history consists of lines rather than 
statements. PyShell is a statement terminal designed to fit Python, not a line 
terminal.

I appreciate this *much* better than 7 years ago.  When I wrote msg66119, I 
probably was not aware of being able to retrieve statements with Alt-P.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

The changes I proposed would not have to be extensions, as they are basically 
non-conflicting alternate keybindings, though the tab effect would have to be 
conditional. I will experiment with using prefix-up/down in one of my installed 
pythons.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Sean Wolfe]

Sean Wolfe added the comment:

Windows 7 patch test successful:


https://bugs.python.org/issue2704

* install python 2.7.8 fresh on W7
* check idle terminal functionality
-- should not show terminal changes from 2704:
- up arrows move cursor
- typing out of focus has no effect
- clicking above the prompt, then typing, does not move cursor to the prompt 
and begin typing


* install Terminal.py in idlelib
* apply PyShell.py.patch

* click out of focus and type
-- cursor returns to prompt + text appears
* backspace
-- backspace deletes text on prompt line

* press up arrow
-- cursor does not move up
-- bell sounds as there are no previous commands

* enter a few commands, then use up/down keys to navigate history
-- up and down browse through history

There seems to be a bell command in the history as I cycle through commands 
when I cross from earliest to latest.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Sean Wolfe]

Sean Wolfe added the comment:

successfully tested on Linux in 2014

Hello folks, FYI I also installed this patch on Lubuntu linux in 2014 on a 
series of computers at a lab where I mentor. I don't have the documentation for 
those specific tests, but I did follow the outline above, and it was done.

So, IMO we can call this tested on W7, Linux and OSX 10.9.3, for Python 2.7 .

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Al Sweigart]

Changes by Al Sweigart asweig...@gmail.com:


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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Sean Wolfe]

Sean Wolfe added the comment:

I just tried this out on osx 10.9.0 and python 2.7.5 :
* cursor persisting on the input line works
* up/down history works

This is much better! A big irritation gone for me and makes things much easier 
for beginners IMO -- one less thing to get surprised by.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Sean Wolfe]

Sean Wolfe added the comment:

installation steps for me:
* apply PyShell.py patch (I had to do some bits manually)
* add Terminal.py to idlelib directory
* add changes to config-extensions.def as detailed in Terminal.py comments

This was in the osx 10.9 system python directories, so there was some sudo-ing 
involved.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Tal Einat]

Changes by Tal Einat talei...@gmail.com:


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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Roger Serwy]

Roger Serwy added the comment:

Welcome Phil! Your patch looks good and applied cleanly to the default branch 
and behaves as you specified. Your submission mechanics are good!

You might want to look into signing a contributor's agreement: 
http://docs.python.org/devguide/coredev.html#sign-a-contributor-agreement

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Phil Webster]

Phil Webster added the comment:

After reading about beginners having difficulty with IDLE's terminal behavior, 
I wrote a (very) simple patch to disable left clicking in the text area. I 
realize that this doesn't solve the problem completely (and the fact that there 
is already a patch here), but I wanted to become familiar with the contribution 
process. Thanks for your patience with me!

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Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30173/Issue2704.patch

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Sarah]

Changes by Sarah sarahpythoni...@gmail.com:


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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Roger Serwy]

Roger Serwy added the comment:

Thanks, Todd, for reviewing and testing the extension!

The Terminal.py extension patch provided here is outdated. There have been some 
minor tweaks and bug fixes that can be found in the IdleX project which works 
under 2.x and 3.x with the same code. (For example, I removed an unnecessary 
reference to the history object in the latest version so that I could better 
support IPython). I know that the IdleX version works under Linux, Windows, and 
MacOSX. 

Unfortunately, on MacOSX, the Options menu may not be present which breaks 
the loading of Terminal.py. IdleX re-introduces the Options menu on MacOSX if 
it is missing. I will create a separate issue for the Options menu.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Todd Rovito]

Todd Rovito added the comment:

No problem Roger.  I have attached a new patch for documentation updates to 
both the IDLE help.txt file and idle.rst for the Terminal extension.  Would it 
be helpful if I did a diff on the idleX Terminal.py with your original patch?  
In addition to doing the patch I can also perform some more testing.  Please 
let me know what I can do to support you getting this patch committed. Thanks.

--
Added file: 
http://bugs.python.org/file29557/2704IDLEMakeShellBehaveLikeTerminaliDocumentationUpdateFor3dot4.patch

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Todd Rovito]

Todd Rovito added the comment:

Roger,
   I took Terminal.py and copied it into Lib/idlelib for the 3.4 branch.  The 
extension started just fine but when I toggle it off under the options menu the 
arrow keys still go through history.  Basically on my Mac I see no difference 
between the extension being turned on/off when I use Terminal.py from idle-X 
version 1.11.2.  I am not sure why when I toggle the extension off I can't move 
around the shell window with my cursor keys like the original patch allowed me 
to do.  Hopefully this helps.  Thanks.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Todd Rovito]

Todd Rovito added the comment:

After looking at the code some more I realized that I didn't have my 
configuration file configured correctly.  The toggle was not working because I 
left this out of my config-extensions.def file:
[Terminal_cfgBindings]
terminal-toggle=

Now it is working great without that variable the toggling does not work.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Todd Rovito]

Changes by Todd Rovito rovit...@gmail.com:


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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Todd Rovito]

Todd Rovito added the comment:

Made minor modifications to Roger's Terminal.py to get the extension to work 
with Python 3.4.  This is an excellent extension as a user can toggle it on/off 
from the Options menu. The up/down arrow keys now allow a user to scroll 
through history but the meta-n meta-p keys still work offering the best of both 
worlds.  If a user wants to scroll around the screen with the arrow keys simply 
turn off the extension from the option bar and start moving the cursor with the 
arrow keys.  Excellent work Roger!

-Changed the original variable from enabled to enable to match other extensions
-Tested it on Mac OS X with 3.4 and it works PERFECT!
-Added a small if statement to pull in the right tkinter import based on 
sys.version

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Added file: 
http://bugs.python.org/file29551/2704IDLEMakeShellBehaveLikeTerminalFor3dot4.patch

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Todd Rovito]

Todd Rovito added the comment:

I tested the patch on Linux CentOS 6.x and it seems to work.  Now if we could 
only get somebody to test on Windows?

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Ramchandra Apte]

Ramchandra Apte added the comment:

+1000

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Terry J. Reedy]

Changes by Terry J. Reedy tjre...@udel.edu:


--
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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Tal Einat]

Tal Einat talei...@gmail.com added the comment:

IDLE should be accessible and easy to use for beginners who have never used a 
command line. Therefore I don't think up/down should scroll through the history 
by default. Since IDLE looks like a text editor (even the shell window) it is 
more intuitive that the arrows should move the cursor around the window.

Note that a user can configure up/down to scroll through the history quite 
easily using the configuration dialog.

I agree that as it stands it is hard to discover how to scroll through the 
history, and that Return can be used to bring previous code into the current 
command line. I think we can find a better way to make these features known to 
new users, without making the interface less intuitive.

For example, we could have a Welcome to IDLE! screen that appears the first 
time IDLE is run by a user, which outlines a few basic features such as these. 
This should of course be complemented by better documentation, including a 
section on various commands (a separate issue).

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Tal Einat]

Tal Einat talei...@gmail.com added the comment:

Regarding passing on letter/number key-presses to the command line, I'm -0 on 
this. Note that not only letter/number keys should be passed on.

I've often found myself wanting to type in the command line after looking at 
previous code, to see that my key presses are being ignored, and having to 
Ctrl+End to return the cursor to the command line.

However, if I was scrolling through the history and by accident hist a letter 
or number, having the cursor jump to the command line and the window scroll 
back to the end would be annoying. Personally, I would prefer avoiding this and 
having to use Ctrl+End to return to the command line.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Mark Lawrence]

Changes by Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk:


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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Roger Serwy]

Roger Serwy roger.se...@gmail.com added the comment:

Rather than change the core code of IDLE, I've attached an extension to achieve 
terminal-like behavior. It provides a toggle to enable/disable. However, this 
extension as-is only works on the 2.x series, although it can be modified 
slightly to work on 3.x.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Cherniavsky Beni]

Cherniavsky Beni c...@users.sf.net added the comment:

History access by Up/Down is important because it makes IDLE history much more 
discoverable.  Most users instinctively expect Up/Down to work; moving back 
through the text of the session is nice but they probably won't guess that you 
can press Enter to reuse old commands; and it's not an efficient way to access 
history anyway.

The problem is increased by the fact that Alt+P/N *don't appear anywhere in the 
menus*, so a user will never discover them!

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Daniel Diniz]

Daniel Diniz aja...@gmail.com added the comment:

Kurt: regarding line wrapping, can you report your browser and OS at
http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/meta/issue277 ?

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Kurt B. Kaiser]

Kurt B. Kaiser k...@shore.net added the comment:

As far as typing in the comment widget goes - it 
works fine if you 
don't 
add CR at the end of the lines until you go back 
and edit it by 
inserting some text.  Then the faulty 
wordwrapping kicks in, and it 
has 
to be fixed by removing all the extra spaces and 
CR by hand.  The 
only 
way around it that I've found is to use hard CR.  
But then you have 
to 
second guess the right margin.  You'll notice 
that if you undo the 
wrapping it did on my comment, that the lines are 
shorter than in 
your 
comments! This paragraph was entered w/o returns. 
It gets screwed as 
soon as I click outside the widget. And the screwing 
depends on the width of my browser window, because that 
affect the width of the text entry widget.

Rev 62545 to 2.6 was forward ported to 3.0 on 
4May, r62716.  I'm 
using py3k HEAD and it works the same as 2.6: 
pressing Home toggles 
beween the left margin and the start of the code 
text.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Kurt B. Kaiser]

Kurt B. Kaiser k...@shore.net added the comment:

The issue of the cursor moving to the left of  in the 
shell is
separate.  See also #3851.  The current action of the home 
key,
released in 2.6, is from patch 1196903.  @tjreedy, if in 
2.6 you
type  syzygy and hit home, the cursor moves to the left 
of the
's'.  A second 'home' moves it to the left margin.  
Subsequent 
presses toggle the cursor between those two position.  
While the
action in the shell could be special cased, I consider 
this to be
cosmetic - and not only that, but moving to the left 
border is
useful when you want to mark a shell region for copy/
paste. So
won't fix is my response to that 'complaint'.  Now back 
to the
subject of this patch

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Kurt B. Kaiser]

Kurt B. Kaiser k...@shore.net added the comment:

Why doesn't someone fix this comment widget?? It was
like this on SF, too.  Guess I've got to dive in at
some point...second guessing the wrapping drives me nuts!

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy tjre...@udel.edu added the comment:

Kurt, do not type hard returns except at the end of code lines and
paragraphs.

As I said in my previous comment, the HOME key works as I said both in
2.5 AND in 3.0 (and still in 3.0.1).  If it was fixed in 2.6, fine, but
that fix was either not forward ported to 3.0 or was otherwise disabled.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Brad Miller]

Brad Miller bonel...@gmail.com added the comment:

I hand applied the patch because I hoped it would fix the problem of the 
cursor going all the way to the left of the  in the Python shell when 
you press home or ctrl-a.  The patch as it is does not solve this problem 
on the Mac.  I've uploaded the patch as a unified diff to make it easier 
for others who might want to give it a try.

The patch does a great job of scrolling through the history at the current 
prompt.  This is a great improvement!  Thanks.

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Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file13306/PyShell.patch

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] added the comment:

On windows: type
 zomeinput
Press home key.  In command window (terminal interface), cursor goes to
just before z, where one would want.  In IDLE (2.5.2, 3.0b2), it goes to
beginning of line.  If current patch does not fix this (there is no
mention), would it be easy to add?

I would expect so because the current page up places the cursor 4 chars
to the right of the margin (if there is text not visible above the
window to jump to and if there is text on the line jumped to).  So
PageUp PageDn will sometimes simulate the desired Home behavior.

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Roger Serwy]

Roger Serwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] added the comment:

I rewrote the patch to better handle multi-line input. In rewriting the
patch I realized that there can be many different ways to handle up/down
key presses while the cursor is in the input region. Here is the
behavior of this patch:

For single line inputs:
* If the cursor is at the end of the line, then up/down navigates the
history.
* If the cursor is not at the end of the line, then up/down places the
cursor at the end, so that subsequent up/down navigates the history. 

For multi-line inputs:
* If the cursor is at the end of the input and the input is in the
history, then up/down navigates the history.
* If the cursor is at the end of the input and the input is NOT in the
history, then up will move the cursor up.
* If the cursor is at the first line of the input, then up will be ignored.
* If the cursor is on the last line of the input, then down will be ignored.

If the cursor leaves the input area, either by pressing left at the
start of the input area, or by clicking elsewhere in the text box, the
up/down keys behave as they do now.

If the cursor is outside the input area and a character key is pressed,
the cursor is placed and the end of the input, and the character is
placed there. 

Also, this patch fixes a subtle cursor placement bug when dealing with
multi-line inputs. When navigating from line 2 to line 1 of a
multi-line, the cursor can end up in the  prompt. This is fixed so
that the cursor stays in the input area.

Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file10641/PyShell.py.patch

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Cherniavsky Beni]

Cherniavsky Beni [EMAIL PROTECTED] added the comment:

The patch logic is very simple: inside the command area Up/Down move
through history.
But what about multi-line editing?  Wouldn't this interfere when you
just want to move between lines in a multi-line command (e.g. a long
``def``)?
I'm afraid the conditional logic needs more refining to be useful.

--
nosy: +cben

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Kurt B. Kaiser]

Changes by Kurt B. Kaiser [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


--
keywords: +patch

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Kurt B. Kaiser]

Kurt B. Kaiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] added the comment:

Thanks for the patch, I'll look at it.

In the future, please send unified diffs (-u), not plain diffs.

--
assignee:  - kbk
nosy: +kbk
versions: +Python 2.6 -Python 2.5

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Roger Serwy]

Roger Serwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] added the comment:

Hi Terry,

The patch allows you to select previous output if your cursor leaves the 
command line area. Press the left arrow button at a new command line 
does this.

Thank you for your feedback!

- RDS

Terry J. Reedy wrote:
 Terry J. Reedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] added the comment:

 I like the two changes: jump to command line and scroll previous command
 lines without having to search back up through the output.  Just don't
 imitate the Windows terminal too closely with its inability to just
 select previous output (without Symbol/Edit/Mark).

 --
 nosy: +tjreedy

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] added the comment:

I like the two changes: jump to command line and scroll previous command
lines without having to search back up through the output.  Just don't
imitate the Windows terminal too closely with its inability to just
select previous output (without Symbol/Edit/Mark).

--
nosy: +tjreedy

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[issue2704] IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface

[Roger Serwy]

New submission from Roger Serwy [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

See attached diff file. Patching PyShell.py Version 1.2.1

PyShell ignores letter/number key presses when the cursor is not on the
command line. Instead it should redirect any letter/number key presses
to the command line. (Changed ModifiedUndoDelegator)

Also, up/down arrow presses should scroll through history when the
cursor is on the command line. But when the cursor is not on the command
line, the arrow keys should move around the PyShell window. (Added new
bindings with conditional logic)

--
components: IDLE
files: patch_PyShell.py
messages: 65888
nosy: serwy
severity: normal
status: open
title: IDLE: Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface
type: behavior
versions: Python 2.5
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file10124/patch_PyShell.py

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