[issue33942] IDLE: Improve Apple MacOS Tcl/Tk warning and web page

[Jasper Trooster]

Jasper Trooster  added the comment:

Hey, thanks for the quick response. I have to add that, when going to the 
download page to download site (https://www.python.org/downloads/) the big 
yellow button that says "Download Python 3.6.5" downloads the 64-/32-bit 
installer (at least, I think so as it redirects to 
https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.6.5/python-3.6.5-macosx10.6.pkg . You can 
see the "-macosx10.6" part.) I pressed that when I started coding, not knowing 
that I had to install a different version.

You can find it when you click on Mac OS X link in the text under the button. 
Maybe the website could present an option to choose?

And one question: which installer from the list should I choose? There are 
seemingly hundreds of them.

--
Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file47649/Schermafbeelding 2018-06-23 om 
16.15.27.png

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[issue33942] IDLE: Improve Apple MacOS Tcl/Tk warning and web page

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

I agree that an install screen is a better place for the link.  And if the 
3.6.7 installer links with an included 8.6, the 8.5.7/9 message will be 
obsolete for the included IDLE, hence no point in patching it.  Hooray.

I will open separate issues about printing the Tk version on startup, and 
possibly deprecating the use of 8.5 with IDLE, and if so, when.

--

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[issue33942] IDLE: Improve Apple MacOS Tcl/Tk warning and web page

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Jasper, as Terry notes, you can either download and install a version of 
ActiveState Tcl/Tk 8.5 (not 8.6) to use with the version of Python 3.6.5 
installed or, better, download and install from the alternate 10.9+ 64-bit-only 
Python 3.6.5 insteller from python.org which has a built-in version of Tcl/Tk 
8.6.

Terry, besides the reference in IDLE startup itself, there is a reference to 
the tcltk page in the macOS installer README which is displayed in the macOS 
installer during Python installation.  I believe that should be more than 
sufficient notice.  More importantly, I'm trying to deprecate use of the 
64-bit/32-bit installer.  Starting with the release of 3.7.0 and 3.6.6, the 
64-bit-only installer (with builtin Tk 8.6) will be the default download and 
for 3.7.0 both installer variants come with a builtin Tk 8.6.  And, unless some 
unforeseen problem pops up, I'm also planning to get rid of Tk 8.5 for good 
with 3.6.7 and 2.7.16.

--
assignee: terry.reedy -> ned.deily
resolution:  -> third party
stage: needs patch -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue33942] IDLE: Improve Apple MacOS Tcl/Tk warning and web page

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Jasper: when you installed 3.6.5 on your 10.11 machine, you had a choice of the 
64-/32-bit installer, good back to 10.6, and newer and better 64-bit installer, 
good back to 10.9.  Since it seems that the latter, the new and improved 
option, should work for you, why did you choose the former?  Did you see the 
discussion under macOS users: new as of 3.6.5?  Do we need to improve it?

Ned: there is no reference anymore on 
https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-365/ to 
https://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/.  There should be.  How about making 
the last part of "The 10.6+ variant still requires installing a third-party 
version of Tcl/Tk 8.5.", from 'installing' to the end, a link to that page?

Jasper: as your movie shows, we warn about TK 8.5.9 being a problem every time 
you start IDLE.
"""
WARNING: The version of Tcl/Tk (8.5.9) in use may be unstable.
Visit http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/ for current information.
"""
Did you see this?  Did you read it?  Did you visit the page?  Did you try to 
follow the instructions? 

How can we make this more prominent and action inducing, without being 
insulting.  How about
"""
WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!!

The version of Tcl/Tk (8.5.9) is ancient and obsolete!

It is almost certainly the buggy and unstable Apple version.
If so, it will eventually crash, causing tkinter and IDLE to crash.

If you continue, DO NOT REPORT the problems that result.

Instead, go to either 
1. http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/
for current information on getting a newer version of Tcl/Tk 8.5;

or (recommended)
2. https://www.python.org/downloads/mac-osx/
to get the macOS 64-bit installer, which includes Tcl/Tk 8.6,
and reinstall.
"""

The last bit about re-downloading and re-installing should be added in any case.

Ned: https://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/ lists 8.5.9 under Alternate 
Tcl/Tk.  There have been multiple reports, like this one, of 8.5.9 causing 
crashes.  Should 8.5.9 be Not Recommended, and the Alternate column deleted?

Me: tkVersionWarning() is untested.  To do so, the full tk version (patchlevel) 
should be read on startup, (and added to the sign-on message), and passed to 
this function.  Tests could then pass in different values.

The function could return '' or message instead of False or message.

--
components: +macOS
nosy: +ned.deily, ronaldoussoren
stage:  -> needs patch
title: IDLE crash when typing opening bracket -> IDLE: Improve Apple MacOS 
Tcl/Tk warning and web page
type: crash -> enhancement
versions: +Python 3.7, Python 3.8

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