[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

In general, we do not backport documentation changes to branches in the 
security-fix phase of their life cycles and their online versions are only 
updated for a release.

--
status: open -> closed
versions:  -Python 3.6, Python 3.7

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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

The tkdocs pages load in less than a second rather than in several seconds, 
have the obsolete link lined out, and include a short explanatory note.  So I 
made the replacement.

Ned, please backport to 3.7 and 3.6 if still built nightly.

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resolution:  -> fixed
stage: patch review -> resolved
versions: +Python 3.6, Python 3.7

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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:


New changeset 8a30bdd21dff6d1957df135c9d0b9983a0f61228 by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.8':
bpo-37149: Change Shipman tkinter link from archive.org to TkDocs (GH-22188) 
(#22193)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/8a30bdd21dff6d1957df135c9d0b9983a0f61228


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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[miss-islington]

miss-islington  added the comment:


New changeset 1b4bdb4cd71df6339da3f247516e0c642f40c37e by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.9':
bpo-37149: Change Shipman tkinter link from archive.org to TkDocs (GH-22188)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/1b4bdb4cd71df6339da3f247516e0c642f40c37e


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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


--
pull_requests: +21254
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22193

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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


--
pull_requests: +21253
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22192

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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:


New changeset 06d0b8b67e8aebd8fe4c34e97d6915c11f4afa30 by Mark Roseman in 
branch 'master':
bpo-37149: Change Shipman tkinter link from archive.org to TkDocs (GH-22188)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/06d0b8b67e8aebd8fe4c34e97d6915c11f4afa30


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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[Mark Roseman]

Change by Mark Roseman :


--
pull_requests: +21249
stage: needs patch -> patch review
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22188

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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[Mark Roseman]

Mark Roseman  added the comment:

I've posted a copy at https://tkdocs.com/shipman/

I've lightly modified it to add a site header and explanation of where the 
material comes from and caveats about age to each page, and have removed or 
crossed out dead links, requests for feedback, etc.

I agree with Terry's assessment of the copyright issues. While I don't expect 
anyone with a valid claim to contact me about the mirrored copy, I'd be happy 
to address any concerns if they do arise.

If this all seems okay, I would very greatly appreciate if someone could update 
the links in the Python documentation for all the relevant branches and 
shepherd that through the approval process.

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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[Terry J. Reedy]

Change by Terry J. Reedy :


--
stage: patch review -> needs patch
versions:  -Python 3.5

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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Pending improving the our docs, I would like to replace the Archive link, which 
is slow to respond.  Issue: there is no copyright notice.  Once might expect it 
to belong to NMT, but they seem to have disowned it by removing the web pages.  
The dead links should be removed from any copy.  The .pdf line in the does work 
at this moment.

If not a work-for-hire, the copyright belonged to Shipman, and now his estate.  
I would not add it to the PSF site without formal permission, but I don't see 
why linking to one unauthorized copy versus another would make much difference.

--
versions: +Python 3.10 -Python 2.7, Python 3.6, Python 3.7

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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[Mark Roseman]

Mark Roseman  added the comment:

Hello, also (very) late to this party. 

If this would be useful, and unless anyone has any objections, I'd be open to 
hosting a copy of John's material on tkdocs.com. I'd add a header to each page 
explaining it's an unmaintained archive with all the usual caveats. 

That would at least provide a stable place to link to.

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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[E. Paine]

E. Paine  added the comment:

I know I'm a bit late, but I believe the site is now being hosted on a Gtihub 
page:
https://anzeljg.github.io/rin2/book2/2405/docs/tkinter/index.html

I suspect this is another personal project just for historical reference and 
will not be updated, however I would (personally) prefer not to be linked to 
the Wayback Machine.

--
nosy: +epaine

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[issue37149] link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

A few comments on this.  One, the Tkinter documentation in question seems to 
have been a personal project of John Shipman at New Mexico Tech and, as such, 
was not "official" so I've updated the issue title accordingly.  Sadly, as 
Cheryl noted, John died two years ago and I guess there were no plans in place 
for someone to take the documentation over from him.  We can all appreciate his 
very valuable contributions over the years by developing and maintaining this 
additional documentation.  It would be great to find a way to provide an 
equivalent resource for Tk 8.6.  The best alternatives today is probably Mark 
Roseman's TkDocs website and "Modern Tkinter" book/ebook, both also already 
linked on our Standard Library tkinter page. I've nosied Mark in case he has 
any thoughts on the matter.

As far as updating the page in older releases, as 3.6 release manager I did 
decide to allow the update there, even though we normally would not make such a 
change for a security-fix-only release; I did so as we are still including 3.6 
in our daily doc builds on docs.python.org (although at some point soon that 
will stop).  It's Larry's call about 3.5 but note that the current 3.5 docs on 
docs.python.org are normally only updated when a new 3.5.x security-fix release 
appears. If you want it to be considered for 3.5, it would be best to make a 
3.5 backport PR.

--
nosy: +markroseman
priority: release blocker -> 
title: link to official documentation tkinter failed  !!! -> link to John 
Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available

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