[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Eric V. Smith]

Eric V. Smith  added the comment:

Thanks, Mark. I'll just close it now. I've made a reminder about the PEP, but 
not sure when/if I'll get to it.

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resolution:  -> rejected
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Mark Dickinson]

Mark Dickinson  added the comment:

@Eric: Are you okay with closing this issue, or do you think we should leave it 
open as a reminder to write that PEP?

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Raymond Hettinger]

Raymond Hettinger  added the comment:

Unfortunately, this ship sailed a long time ago.  Changing it now would create 
more problems that it solves.

> I doubt that that will be enough to silence the repeated requests:
> people are still going to complain that the value that was entered
> as `1i` is being displayed as `1j`. I don't see a sane path 
> towards changing that.

Exactly this.

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nosy: +rhettinger

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Mark Dickinson]

Mark Dickinson  added the comment:

[Serhiy]

> Just making the parser [...] recognizing "i" as well as "j" as complex number 
> suffix.

Okay, thanks. I doubt that that will be enough to silence the repeated 
requests: people are still going to complain that the value that was entered as 
`1i` is being displayed as `1j`. I don't see a sane path towards changing that.

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka  added the comment:

Just making the parser (and the complex constructor) recognizing "i" as well as 
"j" as complex number suffix. Others already proposed more complex changes like 
adding options for formatting complex numbers, but I did not though about it. 
It is just a coincidence that I though about this idea in the same day as the 
OP opened the issue.

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Change by Serhiy Storchaka :


--
versions: +Python 3.10 -Python 3.9

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Mark Dickinson]

Mark Dickinson  added the comment:

Serhiy: what *specific* proposal were you considering? If your proposal 
includes changing the complex str/repr to use "i" instead of "j", how do you 
propose to address the backwards compatibility problem?

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka  added the comment:

Only yesterday I thought about proposing this idea. I used to think using "i" 
or "j" was a type of local feature, like using a comma or a period as a decimal 
separator, or different writing for less-or-equal, but it looks like even in 
the English-speaking world mathematics use "i", and "j" is only used by 
electric engineers.

Possible argument against the "i" suffix is that its capital form "I" can be 
confused with the "l" suffix for longs (but it is no longer applicable in 
Python 3) and digit "1". Although there is more similarity between "l" and "1" 
them between them both and "I", and there are other pairs of potentially 
confusing characters: "O" (for octals) and "0", "B" (for binaries) and "8".

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Mark Dickinson]

Mark Dickinson  added the comment:

> cmath.nanj

That should be cmath.nani, of course. Sorry.

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Mark Dickinson]

Mark Dickinson  added the comment:

See also #10562.

Conceivably, we could add support for `i` on parsing (along with adding 
`cmath.infi` and `cmath.nanj`). We can probably also find a way to extend the 
format specification to allow use of `i` in place of `j` on output. The harder 
problem would be changing the repr and str of complex without breaking existing 
code. I doubt that the OP would be satisfied with the following:

>>> 3 + 4i
(3+4j)

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nosy: +mark.dickinson

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Eric V. Smith]

Eric V. Smith  added the comment:

Good point on surveying other languages for a PEP. You're further along in your 
thinking than I am!

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Steven D'Aprano]

Steven D'Aprano  added the comment:

I think it always helps to look at what other languages do. It doesn't 
mean that we must follow them, but it may help us decide that the choice 
made in Python 1 was a mistake and it is worth going through the pain of 
deprecation, or that it is still justified and we should stick to the 
current design. If everyone else is making a different decision, it pays 
to at least consider why. If they're making the same decision we did, 
that helps justify what we did.

For what it's worth, although my personal preference would be for i, I 
think that going through a disruptive deprecation period is not 
justified. j is good enough. I haven't got an opinion on supporting both 
i and j.

Eric, if you do follow through with writing a PEP, remember that you 
have to make the best case that you can for the change. And you might be 
surprised: when Guido volunteered me to write the dict addition PEP, I 
initially intended it to be rejected. I never expected that it would be 
accepted with a change of operator.

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Eric V. Smith]

Eric V. Smith  added the comment:

I don't think it really matters what other languages do. We're not designing 
this from scratch. We need to reflect that state we're in, which is many, many 
lines of working code using 'j'. I see the two options as: support 'i' and 'j', 
or break existing code and switch to 'i'. I don't think either option makes 
sense.

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title: Use normal 'i -> Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of 
complex numbers

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Eric V. Smith]

Eric V. Smith  added the comment:

As I said in msg385648, I don't think it's feasible.

Maybe I'll write a PEP just to get it rejected so we can point to it when this 
discussion comes up, which it does a few times a year.

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Emmanuel Arias]

Emmanuel Arias  added the comment:

> Now, it's feasible change i for j on cpython? Asking from my ignorance on 
> this case.

j for i, sorry

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Emmanuel Arias]

Emmanuel Arias  added the comment:

Personally, it's more natural use 'j' for complex number, but it's true that in 
many math book (or that I used) letter 'i' is used.

Now, it's feasible change i for j on cpython? Asking from my ignorance on this 
case.

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nosy: +eamanu

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Eric V. Smith]

Eric V. Smith  added the comment:

Even if we wanted to switch to "i" we'd have to continue to also support "j": 
there's a ton of existing code that uses it. Since "j" is used by some fields 
(including my own) for the imaginary part of complex numbers, and since I don't 
think we want to have two ways to do the same thing, I think this proposal 
should be objected.

But if you really want to pursue it, I suggest starting a discussion on the 
python-ideas mailing list.

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nosy: +eric.smith

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Christian Heimes]

Christian Heimes  added the comment:

Your statement is not correct. A lot of people use "j" in fields of electrical 
engineering and signal processing to express the imaginary part. The letter "i" 
is commonly used for electric current in these fields.

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[issue43025] Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of complex numbers

[Bhuvanesh Bhatt]

Bhuvanesh Bhatt  added the comment:

Nobody these days uses j to represent the imaginary part of complex numbers. 
Regardless of what Guido wrote earlier, this issue should be fixed.

--
title: Use normal 'i -> Use normal 'i' character to denote imaginary part of 
complex numbers
type:  -> enhancement
versions: +Python 3.9

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