Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On 6 Jan 2014, at 10:35, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 2013/12/4 Michael Foord :
>> As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North
>> America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running
>> from approximately 10am to 4pm.
>
> My talk "Track memory leaks in Python" was accepted, I will be present
> at Montreal for Pycon US \o/
>
> For the summit, I think that we must discuss the adoption of Python 3
> and try to fix remaining issues to ease porting applications from
> Python 2 to Python 3. Mercurial and Twisted are not ported yet, and
> some developers consider Python 3 as a mistake. You must try to
> understand why and fix remaining issues.
>
> One concrete point is the "support .format for bytes" which was
> requested by Mercurial ("for Mercurial this is the single biggest
> impediment to even getting our testrunner working, much less starting
> the porting process.") and Twisted ("Honestly, what Twisted is mostly
> after is a way to write code that works both with Python 2 and Python
> 3.")
> http://bugs.python.org/issue3982
>
> A PEP was requested for this issue, I'm interested to help to write it
> and implement it in Python 3.5.
>
> A Python 2.8 version was also proposed to reduce differences between
> Python 2 and 3, and so ease porting applications to Python 3. Related
> discussion:
>
> "About Python 3"
> http://alexgaynor.net/2013/dec/30/about-python-3/
>
> "Debating a "transitional" Python 2.8"
> http://lwn.net/Articles/578532/
> Free link if you are not subscribed:
> http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/578532/8002e0bc4289a23d/
>
> This mailing list is not the right place to discuss all these points,
> I propose to discuss them during the Language Summit. If you would
> like to discuss these points right now, please open a discussion in
> python-dev or python-ideas.
>
Thanks for letting me know Victor. I've added you to the list of attendees and
added your items to the agenda.
Michael
> Victor
--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
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Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On lun., 2014-01-06 at 11:37 +0100, Victor Stinner wrote: > 2014/1/6 Victor Stinner : > > You must try to understand why and fix remaining issues. > > Oops, I don't understand why, but sometimes I write "you" instead of "we". > > *We* must try to understand why and fix remaining issues. Certainly a keyboard problem :-) Regards Antoine. ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
2014/1/6 Victor Stinner : > You must try to understand why and fix remaining issues. Oops, I don't understand why, but sometimes I write "you" instead of "we". *We* must try to understand why and fix remaining issues. Victor ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
Hi,
2013/12/4 Michael Foord :
> As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North
> America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running
> from approximately 10am to 4pm.
My talk "Track memory leaks in Python" was accepted, I will be present
at Montreal for Pycon US \o/
For the summit, I think that we must discuss the adoption of Python 3
and try to fix remaining issues to ease porting applications from
Python 2 to Python 3. Mercurial and Twisted are not ported yet, and
some developers consider Python 3 as a mistake. You must try to
understand why and fix remaining issues.
One concrete point is the "support .format for bytes" which was
requested by Mercurial ("for Mercurial this is the single biggest
impediment to even getting our testrunner working, much less starting
the porting process.") and Twisted ("Honestly, what Twisted is mostly
after is a way to write code that works both with Python 2 and Python
3.")
http://bugs.python.org/issue3982
A PEP was requested for this issue, I'm interested to help to write it
and implement it in Python 3.5.
A Python 2.8 version was also proposed to reduce differences between
Python 2 and 3, and so ease porting applications to Python 3. Related
discussion:
"About Python 3"
http://alexgaynor.net/2013/dec/30/about-python-3/
"Debating a "transitional" Python 2.8"
http://lwn.net/Articles/578532/
Free link if you are not subscribed:
http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/578532/8002e0bc4289a23d/
This mailing list is not the right place to discuss all these points,
I propose to discuss them during the Language Summit. If you would
like to discuss these points right now, please open a discussion in
python-dev or python-ideas.
Victor
___
python-committers mailing list
python-committers@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On 5 Dec 2013, at 02:16, Jesus Cea wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 04/12/13 18:19, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >>> Define "sunset" :) >> >> A romantic evening with the bsddb module perhaps? Then we tie it to >> a weakref and throw it in the ocean. > > bsddb, Glup! :-). > > I can't attend the summit, but I would like to discuss DTRACE probes > for 3.5. Can it be done or being present is required?. Are there other people, who will be present, willing and able to lead the discussion? Perhaps find a proxy person to represent your points and start the discussion. If you find someone let me know who and I'll add them and the discussion item to the agenda. Michael > > - -- > Jesús Cea Avión _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/_/ > j...@jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ > Twitter: @jcea_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ > jabber / xmpp:j...@jabber.org _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ > "Things are not so easy" _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ > "My name is Dump, Core Dump" _/_/_/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ > "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQCVAwUBUp/iFZlgi5GaxT1NAQKmEAP/fbij44AcZFhXNMta/vgFZf+vwJmU3NxZ > XJVi39DQoJRhKJbglSX2+4HBrylStaJIDlsdXiHLSV/wuicR5oEWiN3tV4xqj6LW > lcmVyAvzBcMv7oSBRPbtl2aMnlmZhBXHjE/E07/xuQQDEu6+ocO/4kBuSjvGH/9n > x+CU86ZwL6c= > =Xyj7 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/12/13 00:22, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Like many other systems, Zope and Plone only support a few Python > versions for each release. If you want to upgrade to later Python > versions, you have to upgrade to newer Zope and Plone versions as > well. I have first hand experience with Zope 2.10 and Python 2.4. Nightmare. In my case, I use products like ZWIKI, that doesn't work on new releases of Zope. Tens of thousands of wikipages by the way. That is, this is not my "messy code" but depending of a product unmaintained and incompatible with new Zope releases. Currently I run two zope instances: Zope 2.13 for most of my web and Zope 2.10 for the wikis, mapped thru the apache front end. Ugly hack I dislike deeply. I have to decide if adopting zwiki myself (puf, puf, busy and uninteresting :-( ) or just drop Zope and migrate an enormous web to something else. Sure you can feel my pain, but this is offtopic :-). Python 2.7 ends its usual 5-year cycle support in 2015. After that, I would suggest source releases only, security+build fixes only, until thermal dead of the universe. Or until downloads < 1% of 3.x downloads (and hide it a bit in the main page, so newbies don't have any doubt about which version to download). - -- Jesús Cea Avión _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/_/ j...@jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ Twitter: @jcea_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ jabber / xmpp:j...@jabber.org _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "Things are not so easy" _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ "My name is Dump, Core Dump" _/_/_/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQCVAwUBUp/lZZlgi5GaxT1NAQIt6gP/UU3qeMtJ7hfbg9wmGeb2ma0w1cWH88IR tN0UNQTZFSXrhXLGG25ZHXsF/f+J6z0g0ShtgRLRp4dF1t4DIBvW9MbTfsNPtsMm JQuk1Udm2O6vokQLR4c45akjTx3pulnzKoYZVrIsMJqrzb2DvTAWKM2X64+YTPi6 zJUHzEXA/a0= =BKdn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/12/13 18:19, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> Define "sunset" :) > > A romantic evening with the bsddb module perhaps? Then we tie it to > a weakref and throw it in the ocean. bsddb, Glup! :-). I can't attend the summit, but I would like to discuss DTRACE probes for 3.5. Can it be done or being present is required?. - -- Jesús Cea Avión _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/_/ j...@jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ Twitter: @jcea_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ jabber / xmpp:j...@jabber.org _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "Things are not so easy" _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ "My name is Dump, Core Dump" _/_/_/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQCVAwUBUp/iFZlgi5GaxT1NAQKmEAP/fbij44AcZFhXNMta/vgFZf+vwJmU3NxZ XJVi39DQoJRhKJbglSX2+4HBrylStaJIDlsdXiHLSV/wuicR5oEWiN3tV4xqj6LW lcmVyAvzBcMv7oSBRPbtl2aMnlmZhBXHjE/E07/xuQQDEu6+ocO/4kBuSjvGH/9n x+CU86ZwL6c= =Xyj7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On 5 Dec 2013 09:04, "Brian Curtin" wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:47 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> >> On 04.12.2013 21:28, Eli Bendersky wrote: >> > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> > >> >> On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: >> >>> 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : >> On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> >> > As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years >> > before "sunsetting" 2.7. >> >> I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only >> >> around the >> Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security >> >> support. >> >>> >> >>> FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and >> >>> security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). >> >> >> >> Just as data point: we have customers that still request Python 2.4 >> >> compatible versions of our products - simply because they cannot >> >> upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. >> >> >> > >> > I was always curious about these "cannot upgrade" cases. Most of the time, >> > they seem to boil down to "because that's the default Python our RHEL comes >> > with", completely ignoring the possiblity of just building a newer Python >> > locally and/or carrying along with the product. >> > >> > Can you clarify on some specific interesting cases you ran into? >> >> One example is users stuck on e.g. Zope 2.10 or Plone 3.3 (or even >> earlier). They cannot upgrade because they are using customized >> installations and don't have the knowledge or resources to upgrade >> the systems to later versions. > > > Writing intentionally unmaintainable software and being locked into it is a different issue than platforms providing long-dead Python versions. If you do bad things, you're going to have a bad time. A lot of these cases are companies that didn't know any better at the time, though. Cheers, Nick. > > ___ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On 05.12.2013 00:03, Brian Curtin wrote: > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:47 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >>> Can you clarify on some specific interesting cases you ran into? >> >> One example is users stuck on e.g. Zope 2.10 or Plone 3.3 (or even >> earlier). They cannot upgrade because they are using customized >> installations and don't have the knowledge or resources to upgrade >> the systems to later versions. > > > Writing intentionally unmaintainable software and being locked into it is a > different issue than platforms providing long-dead Python versions. If you > do bad things, you're going to have a bad time. I'm not sure I follow. Like many other systems, Zope and Plone only support a few Python versions for each release. If you want to upgrade to later Python versions, you have to upgrade to newer Zope and Plone versions as well. Now, unlike Python 2, the changes for those new versions are often significant, so add-ons or customizations written for the version you have installed (often) don't work anymore in newer releases (also because these systems tend to have shorter release cycles and switch major versions more frequently than Python). Just like with OSes shipping older Python releases, you are therefore stuck with a system that only runs on older Python releases. This is not the same as intentionally writing unmaintainable software. If you can't keep up with a system's release cycle, you fall behind, and there may be many reasons for this to happen, e.g. no budget, people changing jobs, the application being feature complete and in maintenance mode - until one day someone does need a new feature, etc. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Dec 04 2013) >>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ : Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:47 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 04.12.2013 21:28, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > > >> On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > >>> 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : > On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three > years > > before "sunsetting" 2.7. > > I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only > >> around the > Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security > >> support. > >>> > >>> FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and > >>> security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). > >> > >> Just as data point: we have customers that still request Python 2.4 > >> compatible versions of our products - simply because they cannot > >> upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. > >> > > > > I was always curious about these "cannot upgrade" cases. Most of the > time, > > they seem to boil down to "because that's the default Python our RHEL > comes > > with", completely ignoring the possiblity of just building a newer Python > > locally and/or carrying along with the product. > > > > Can you clarify on some specific interesting cases you ran into? > > One example is users stuck on e.g. Zope 2.10 or Plone 3.3 (or even > earlier). They cannot upgrade because they are using customized > installations and don't have the knowledge or resources to upgrade > the systems to later versions. Writing intentionally unmaintainable software and being locked into it is a different issue than platforms providing long-dead Python versions. If you do bad things, you're going to have a bad time. ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On Wed, 2013-12-04 at 12:28 -0800, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > > 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : > >> On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> > >>> As for the question, I think we should wait at least two > or three years > >>> before "sunsetting" 2.7. > >> > >> I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to > security-fix only around the > >> Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised > security support. > > > > FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in > 2015 and > > security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like > that). > > > Just as data point: we have customers that still request > Python 2.4 > compatible versions of our products - simply because they > cannot > upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. > > > I was always curious about these "cannot upgrade" cases. Most of the > time, they seem to boil down to "because that's the default Python our > RHEL comes with", completely ignoring the possiblity of just building > a newer Python locally and/or carrying along with the product. FWIW Red Hat also now has a RH-supported way of running more recent versions of Python on RHEL: http://developerblog.redhat.com/2013/09/12/rhscl1-ga/ though I believe that's only supported on RHEL6 onwards (giving 2.7 and 3.3. on RHEL6). Doesn't help on RHEL 5 (which is still 2.4), though there are (unsupported) srpms available for later releases there. ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
2013/12/4 Christian Heimes : > Am 04.12.2013 20:07, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: >> FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 >> and security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like >> that). > > Can we make an exception for platform support, e.g. compatibility > fixes with new compiler or library versions? dpkg-architecture and > OpenSSL with SSLv2 have broken Python 2.6 builds. In general, yes. -- Regards, Benjamin ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
Am 04.12.2013 20:07, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: > FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 > and security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like > that). Can we make an exception for platform support, e.g. compatibility fixes with new compiler or library versions? dpkg-architecture and OpenSSL with SSLv2 have broken Python 2.6 builds. ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On 04.12.2013 21:28, Eli Bendersky wrote: > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >> On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: >>> 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years > before "sunsetting" 2.7. I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only >> around the Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security >> support. >>> >>> FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and >>> security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). >> >> Just as data point: we have customers that still request Python 2.4 >> compatible versions of our products - simply because they cannot >> upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. >> > > I was always curious about these "cannot upgrade" cases. Most of the time, > they seem to boil down to "because that's the default Python our RHEL comes > with", completely ignoring the possiblity of just building a newer Python > locally and/or carrying along with the product. > > Can you clarify on some specific interesting cases you ran into? One example is users stuck on e.g. Zope 2.10 or Plone 3.3 (or even earlier). They cannot upgrade because they are using customized installations and don't have the knowledge or resources to upgrade the systems to later versions. Building your own Python installation often isn't a possibility in corporate setups, e.g. because they are only allowed to run software for which they have support contracts. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Dec 04 2013) >>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ : Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > > 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : > >> On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> > >>> As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years > >>> before "sunsetting" 2.7. > >> > >> I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only > around the > >> Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security > support. > > > > FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and > > security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). > > Just as data point: we have customers that still request Python 2.4 > compatible versions of our products - simply because they cannot > upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. > I was always curious about these "cannot upgrade" cases. Most of the time, they seem to boil down to "because that's the default Python our RHEL comes with", completely ignoring the possiblity of just building a newer Python locally and/or carrying along with the product. Can you clarify on some specific interesting cases you ran into? Eli ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : >> On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> >>> As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years >>> before "sunsetting" 2.7. >> >> I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only around the >> Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security support. > > FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and > security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). Just as data point: we have customers that still request Python 2.4 compatible versions of our products - simply because they cannot upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. I think that a lot more Python 2 users will be in that situation in a few years when hitting the Python 2->3 road block - even if the underlying software may support Python 3 in the near future, they may not be able to or have the resources to port their customizations to Python 3. The "indefinitely" sounds like a good plan if we want to have those users stick with us. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Dec 04 2013) >>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ : Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : > On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >>As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years >>before "sunsetting" 2.7. > > I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only around the > Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security support. FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). -- Regards, Benjamin ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years >before "sunsetting" 2.7. I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only around the Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security support. -Barry ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
Am 04.12.2013 19:14, schrieb Michael Foord: > > On 4 Dec 2013, at 18:13, Christian Heimes > wrote: > >> Am 04.12.2013 19:01, schrieb Michael Foord: I've added it to the agenda with your name... As my name is being attached to a discussion of ending the development of Python 2, will there be a place for people to check their pitchforks at the door? =) >>> >>> On the contrary, I think I'll be selling pitchforks and >>> popcorn... >> >> Don't forget to bring a sharpening stone! :) > > Sharpening popcorn doesn't work, I've tried it. You haven't tried popcorn at my local cinema yet. It'll do the job ... lots of large, diamond-hard sugar crystals. ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On mer., 2013-12-04 at 18:19 +0100, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On mer., 2013-12-04 at 09:11 -0800, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > > > > > > > > > > Define "sunset" :) > > A romantic evening with the bsddb module perhaps? > Then we tie it to a weakref and throw it in the ocean. (please note I have nothing against the bsddb module by the way) As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years before "sunsetting" 2.7. Regards Antoine. ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On 4 Dec 2013, at 18:13, Christian Heimes wrote: > Am 04.12.2013 19:01, schrieb Michael Foord: >>> I've added it to the agenda with your name... >>> >>> As my name is being attached to a discussion of ending the >>> development of Python 2, will there be a place for people to >>> check their pitchforks at the door? =) >>> >> >> On the contrary, I think I'll be selling pitchforks and popcorn... > > Don't forget to bring a sharpening stone! :) Sharpening popcorn doesn't work, I've tried it. -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
Am 04.12.2013 19:01, schrieb Michael Foord: >> I've added it to the agenda with your name... >> >> As my name is being attached to a discussion of ending the >> development of Python 2, will there be a place for people to >> check their pitchforks at the door? =) >> > > On the contrary, I think I'll be selling pitchforks and popcorn... Don't forget to bring a sharpening stone! :) ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > Hello all, > > As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North > America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running > from approximately 10am to 4pm. > > As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're attending > so I can track numbers. How soon do you need to know? I would really like to be there, but I don't know when/if I'll be able to say that I will be. -- Zach ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On 4 Dec 2013, at 18:01, Zachary Ware wrote: > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Michael Foord > wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North >> America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running >> from approximately 10am to 4pm. >> >> As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're attending >> so I can track numbers. > > How soon do you need to know? I would really like to be there, but I > don't know when/if I'll be able to say that I will be. I'll put you down as a maybe and let me know (privately) when you're definite one way or the other. Thanks! Michael > > -- > Zach -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On 4 Dec 2013, at 17:48, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Michael Foord > wrote: > > On 4 Dec 2013, at 14:26, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > > > > I've added it to the agenda with your name... > > As my name is being attached to a discussion of ending the development of > Python 2, will there be a place for people to check their pitchforks at the > door? =) > On the contrary, I think I'll be selling pitchforks and popcorn... Michael > -Brett > > > Thanks, > > Michael > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord > > wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North > > America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running > > from approximately 10am to 4pm. > > > > As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're attending > > so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I will email > > them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of other > > implementations and prominent Python projects. > > > > The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on plans > > for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of the > > alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, > > PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see > > discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, > > but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). > > > > Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and > > hotel costs. > > > > If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. > > Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in the > > Language Summit. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Michael Foord > > Coordinator, Python Language Summit > > > > > > -- > > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > > > > May you do good and not evil > > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > > -- the sqlite blessing > > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > python-committers mailing list > > python-committers@python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > > > > > -- > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > May you do good and not evil > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > -- the sqlite blessing > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Michael Foord wrote: > > On 4 Dec 2013, at 14:26, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > > > > I've added it to the agenda with your name... > As my name is being attached to a discussion of ending the development of Python 2, will there be a place for people to check their pitchforks at the door? =) -Brett > > Thanks, > > Michael > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord > wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon > North America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and > running from approximately 10am to 4pm. > > > > As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're > attending so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I > will email them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of > other implementations and prominent Python projects. > > > > The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on > plans for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of > the alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, > PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see > discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, > but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). > > > > Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and > hotel costs. > > > > If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. > Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in > the Language Summit. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Michael Foord > > Coordinator, Python Language Summit > > > > > > -- > > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > > > > May you do good and not evil > > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > > -- the sqlite blessing > > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > python-committers mailing list > > python-committers@python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > > > > > -- > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > May you do good and not evil > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > -- the sqlite blessing > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On 4 Dec 2013, at 14:26, Brett Cannon wrote: > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > I've added it to the agenda with your name... Thanks, Michael > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord > wrote: > Hello all, > > As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North > America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running > from approximately 10am to 4pm. > > As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're attending > so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I will email them > to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of other > implementations and prominent Python projects. > > The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on plans > for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of the > alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, PyPI, > packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see discussed > please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, but they will > be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). > > Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and hotel > costs. > > If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. Note > that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in the > Language Summit. > > Regards, > > > Michael Foord > Coordinator, Python Language Summit > > > -- > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > May you do good and not evil > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > -- the sqlite blessing > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > ___ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > >> Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? >> >> > Define "sunset" :) > Stop supporting/EOL. -Brett > > Eli > > >> >> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord >> wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon >>> North America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and >>> running from approximately 10am to 4pm. >>> >>> As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're >>> attending so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I >>> will email them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of >>> other implementations and prominent Python projects. >>> >>> The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on >>> plans for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of >>> the alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, >>> PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see >>> discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, >>> but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). >>> >>> Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and >>> hotel costs. >>> >>> If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. >>> Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in >>> the Language Summit. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> Michael Foord >>> Coordinator, Python Language Summit >>> >>> >>> -- >>> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ >>> >>> >>> May you do good and not evil >>> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others >>> May you share freely, never taking more than you give. >>> -- the sqlite blessing >>> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> python-committers mailing list >>> python-committers@python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers >>> >> >> >> ___ >> python-committers mailing list >> python-committers@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers >> >> > ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On mer., 2013-12-04 at 09:11 -0800, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > > > > > Define "sunset" :) A romantic evening with the bsddb module perhaps? Then we tie it to a weakref and throw it in the ocean. cheers Antoine. ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > > Define "sunset" :) Eli > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North >> America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running >> from approximately 10am to 4pm. >> >> As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're >> attending so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I >> will email them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of >> other implementations and prominent Python projects. >> >> The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on >> plans for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of >> the alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, >> PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see >> discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, >> but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). >> >> Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and >> hotel costs. >> >> If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. >> Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in >> the Language Summit. >> >> Regards, >> >> >> Michael Foord >> Coordinator, Python Language Summit >> >> >> -- >> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ >> >> >> May you do good and not evil >> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others >> May you share freely, never taking more than you give. >> -- the sqlite blessing >> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> python-committers mailing list >> python-committers@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers >> > > > ___ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > > ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April
Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > Hello all, > > As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North > America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running > from approximately 10am to 4pm. > > As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're > attending so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I > will email them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of > other implementations and prominent Python projects. > > The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on > plans for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of > the alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, > PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see > discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, > but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). > > Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and > hotel costs. > > If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. > Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in > the Language Summit. > > Regards, > > > Michael Foord > Coordinator, Python Language Summit > > > -- > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > May you do good and not evil > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > -- the sqlite blessing > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > ___ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
