Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Terry Reedy]

On 6/18/2018 2:37 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:



On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 11:17 Antoine Pitrou > wrote:



Le 14/06/2018 à 04:30, Terry Reedy a écrit :
 > On 6/13/2018 7:03 PM, Carol Willing wrote:
 >> +1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is
 >> reasonable to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or
after 3
 >> months of coaching.
 >>
 >> I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active
on the
 >> bug tracker to also be promoted to a core developer.
 >
 > A bit off topic, but I would too, as she has been extremely
helpful with
 > IDLE.

It's very nice that we're getting new active contributors.
OTOH if Cheryl is mostly active on the bug tracker, does she need commit
rights in order to participate properly?


On the tracker, ordinary commit rights add the little symbol after your 
name and add your name to the drop down lists for Assigned and Nosy. 
(The latter, by the way, would be a reason to de-activate people 
inactive after several years.)



  Or did she also review PRs or submit some of her own?


In the last year, she has submitted roughly 70 PRs, about half for IDLE, 
and perhaps 2/3 have been merged.  I still need to review her remaining 
IDLE PRs.  The last few I merged with little or no changed.  She has 
done some reviews, especially when asked, but obviously prefers writing.


On Github, the main effects of commits rights are addition to the list 
of possible reviewers, more weight to reviews (as far as github is 
concerned), and the possibility of pushing changes to both the PR branch 
and cpython.


Cheryl is actually the 6th most active contributor by commits over the 
past year: 
https://github.com/python/cpython/graphs/contributors?from=2017-06-18&to=2018-06-18&type=c 
(IOW only Victor, you, Yury, Terry, and Ned have more commits since 
2017-06-18).



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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Antoine Pitrou]

Thanks for correcting me.
(by the way I'm 8th in that list... Serhiy is 2nd, not me ;-))

Regards

Antoine.


Le 18/06/2018 à 20:37, Brett Cannon a écrit :
> 
> 
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 11:17 Antoine Pitrou  > wrote:
> 
> 
> Le 14/06/2018 à 04:30, Terry Reedy a écrit :
> > On 6/13/2018 7:03 PM, Carol Willing wrote:
> >> +1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is
> >> reasonable to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or
> after 3
> >> months of coaching.
> >>
> >> I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active
> on the
> >> bug tracker to also be promoted to a core developer.
> >
> > A bit off topic, but I would too, as she has been extremely
> helpful with
> > IDLE.
> 
> It's very nice that we're getting new active contributors.
> OTOH if Cheryl is mostly active on the bug tracker, does she need commit
> rights in order to participate properly?  Or did she also review PRs or
> submit some of her own?
> 
> 
> Cheryl is actually the 6th most active contributor by commits over the
> past year:
> https://github.com/python/cpython/graphs/contributors?from=2017-06-18&to=2018-06-18&type=c
> (IOW only Victor, you, Yury, Terry, and Ned have more commits since
> 2017-06-18).
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Brett Cannon]

On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 11:17 Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

>
> Le 14/06/2018 à 04:30, Terry Reedy a écrit :
> > On 6/13/2018 7:03 PM, Carol Willing wrote:
> >> +1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is
> >> reasonable to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or after 3
> >> months of coaching.
> >>
> >> I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active on the
> >> bug tracker to also be promoted to a core developer.
> >
> > A bit off topic, but I would too, as she has been extremely helpful with
> > IDLE.
>
> It's very nice that we're getting new active contributors.
> OTOH if Cheryl is mostly active on the bug tracker, does she need commit
> rights in order to participate properly?  Or did she also review PRs or
> submit some of her own?
>
>
Cheryl is actually the 6th most active contributor by commits over the past
year:
https://github.com/python/cpython/graphs/contributors?from=2017-06-18&to=2018-06-18&type=c
(IOW only Victor, you, Yury, Terry, and Ned have more commits since
2017-06-18).
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Antoine Pitrou]

Le 14/06/2018 à 19:25, Gregory P. Smith a écrit :
> Quick response:
> 
> +0.5
> 
> But Pablo shows drive and desire to do good things and an
> ability to eventually do it even if there are learning bumps along the
> way.

This is my impression as well, having interacted with Pablo on a single
PR on which I ended up proposing another approach that I implemented myself.

> With mentoring and PR reviews (which I'm assuming Victor is
> signing up for) I believe Pablo would make a fine core developer.
> 
> So +0.5 from me.  I wouldn't give Pablo free reign to make changes yet -
> mentoring required - but that is exactly how most of us start off while
> we learn.

Same feeling here.  Also Pablo seems to tackle non-trivial issues, which
may explain some of the clumsiness.  +0.5 from me.

Regards

Antoine.
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Antoine Pitrou]

Le 14/06/2018 à 04:30, Terry Reedy a écrit :
> On 6/13/2018 7:03 PM, Carol Willing wrote:
>> +1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is 
>> reasonable to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or after 3 
>> months of coaching.
>>
>> I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active on the 
>> bug tracker to also be promoted to a core developer.
> 
> A bit off topic, but I would too, as she has been extremely helpful with 
> IDLE. 

It's very nice that we're getting new active contributors.
OTOH if Cheryl is mostly active on the bug tracker, does she need commit
rights in order to participate properly?  Or did she also review PRs or
submit some of her own?

Regards

Antoine.
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Serhiy Storchaka]

15.06.18 05:05, Nathaniel Smith пише:

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 4:40 AM, Berker Peksağ  wrote:

This isn't about my or someone else's high standards. We keep saying
we need more triagers and reviewers, and we keep promoting people who
didn't do any issue triaging and code review. It's not fair to
contributors who have spent so much time working on these areas.

Surely the solution is to promote more people who do those things, not
to turn away people making other contributions? We need more
contributors of all kinds.


It is not necessary to be a core developer for been a productive 
contributor. You only need to be a core developer for doing a work that 
can be made only by a core developer. This is mainly merging your own 
and others PRs after a thorough reviewing.


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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Serhiy Storchaka]

13.06.18 23:46, Victor Stinner пише:

It's not like Pablo proposed the idea himself and force to get this
feature merged. Pablo just implemented an idea proposed by two other
core developers.


It looks like Pablo implements ideas for which he does not fully 
understand the consequences and the drawbacks. Well, his skills are not 
bad, but we don't need more half-baken features in the stdlib, it is 
better to have less but more qualitative features that fit well with the 
rest of the stdlib.



I don't see anything wrong here. It's not uncommon that a newly merged
feature is still discussed, and I don't see anything wrong with
Pablo's behaviour here. I don't see how we could prevent such further
discussions on posix_spawn(). At least, I don't see how Pablo could
prevent these issues.


My point was that if you count the number of merged PRs, you should 
exclude reverted and unfinished works.



At the end, I really like the final commit:
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/2c15b29aea5d6b9c61aa42d2c24a07ff1edb4b46

It adds a new rounding mode (_PyTime_ROUND_UP), write a non-trivial
function test for negative timeout, has a good NEWS entry, etc.

Pablo showed that he is able to implement large change and fix all
cases, not a single case. IMHO it's a good example, rather than a bad
example :-)


It is just that more than a half of this work was made by you.


Many of other PRs are documentation fixes.

Is it an issue?


No, but these PRs are much easier. And some of them just add the 
documentation for features added in other PRs and should not be count 
separately.



I think Pablo will be good core developer and agree with the description
given by Victor. But it seems that he still needs to learn something about
what changes are good for Python.

Ok, I account your -1 vote.


Actually just -0. After dropping reverted PRs I have no enough 
information still for having a strong opinion. But I have no strong 
objections if you hold on to him.



In private, I told Pablo that I consider that the main
difference between a core developer and a contributor is that core
developers are expected to spend more time on reviews and mentoring.


The main difference is that the core developer constantly make decisions 
about his own and foreign patches. It is responsible for quality of 
merged code.


IMHO the purpose of adding a new core developer is reducing the burden 
for other core developers. He/she can take a part of the work, make 
qualified reviews and merge PRs without involving attention of BDFL or 
other core developers. For now, Pablo's PRs add the work for core 
developers.


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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Brett Cannon]

I just wanted to say I agree with everything Eric said, for +1 from me.

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 14:34 Eric Snow,  wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 10:16 AM Victor Stinner 
> wrote:
> > I propose to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as a core developer and so
> > open a vote during one week. If there is no strong opposition, I will
> > promote him but also continue to mentor him for a least one month.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > I am mentoring Pablo Salingo Salgado since January. I am watching his
> > hard work since last September. He made many non trivial and useful
> > contributions to Python.
> >
> > I think that he understands well how Python is developed, is
> > respectful, try to find answers alone before asking, and is eager to
> > learn. In case of doubt, he ask others before doing something, like
> > closing an issue. I trust that Pablo will respect opinions of others,
> > like not merging a PR if someone disagree.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > If Pablo is promoted as a core developer, I propose to continue to be
> > his mentor for at least one month, and ask him before merging any PR.
>
> +1
>
> I have had no negative (or any) experiences with Pablo and otherwise
> trust Victor's judgement and mentoring.
>
> Regarding if Pablo has done "enough", ultimately folks get commit
> privileges at the point that they show they will be a benefit to
> Python development and we trust them enough to merge PRs.  Any other
> criteria feels rather secondary, considering the variety of ways a
> core developer can contribute.  We don't need to aim for exclusivity.
> (It's not like we have a limit on the number of people that can have
> commit privileges.)  In this case we have a respected core developer
> (Victor) expressing his trust, suggesting that Python will benefit via
> Pablo, and offering to mentor him.  Unless someone says they do not
> trust Pablo, I don't see any reason here to object.
>
> That said, I agree that core developers in particular should be active
> on the issue tracker and reviewing PRs, and it makes sense to reward
> folks you show a commitment to helping there.  I just don't think that
> is necessarily a major criteria for becoming a core developer,
> especially when someone like Victor vouches for the candidate.
> Sometimes I wonder if we scare off otherwise amazing folks because
> they think we expect a significant sacrifice of time or we
> inadvertently make them feel like they aren't good enough.  It's easy
> for us to mess this up! :/
>
> -eric
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Nathaniel Smith]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 4:40 AM, Berker Peksağ  wrote:
> This isn't about my or someone else's high standards. We keep saying
> we need more triagers and reviewers, and we keep promoting people who
> didn't do any issue triaging and code review. It's not fair to
> contributors who have spent so much time working on these areas.

Surely the solution is to promote more people who do those things, not
to turn away people making other contributions? We need more
contributors of all kinds.

+1 from me.

-n

-- 
Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Eric Snow]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 10:16 AM Victor Stinner  wrote:
> I propose to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as a core developer and so
> open a vote during one week. If there is no strong opposition, I will
> promote him but also continue to mentor him for a least one month.
>
> [snip]
>
> I am mentoring Pablo Salingo Salgado since January. I am watching his
> hard work since last September. He made many non trivial and useful
> contributions to Python.
>
> I think that he understands well how Python is developed, is
> respectful, try to find answers alone before asking, and is eager to
> learn. In case of doubt, he ask others before doing something, like
> closing an issue. I trust that Pablo will respect opinions of others,
> like not merging a PR if someone disagree.
>
> [snip]
>
> If Pablo is promoted as a core developer, I propose to continue to be
> his mentor for at least one month, and ask him before merging any PR.

+1

I have had no negative (or any) experiences with Pablo and otherwise
trust Victor's judgement and mentoring.

Regarding if Pablo has done "enough", ultimately folks get commit
privileges at the point that they show they will be a benefit to
Python development and we trust them enough to merge PRs.  Any other
criteria feels rather secondary, considering the variety of ways a
core developer can contribute.  We don't need to aim for exclusivity.
(It's not like we have a limit on the number of people that can have
commit privileges.)  In this case we have a respected core developer
(Victor) expressing his trust, suggesting that Python will benefit via
Pablo, and offering to mentor him.  Unless someone says they do not
trust Pablo, I don't see any reason here to object.

That said, I agree that core developers in particular should be active
on the issue tracker and reviewing PRs, and it makes sense to reward
folks you show a commitment to helping there.  I just don't think that
is necessarily a major criteria for becoming a core developer,
especially when someone like Victor vouches for the candidate.
Sometimes I wonder if we scare off otherwise amazing folks because
they think we expect a significant sacrifice of time or we
inadvertently make them feel like they aren't good enough.  It's easy
for us to mess this up! :/

-eric
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Brett Cannon]

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 16:11 Carol Willing  wrote:

> +1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is
> reasonable to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or after 3
> months of coaching.
>
> I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active on the
> bug tracker to also be promoted to a core developer as well as Emily
> Morehouse who has been at the Language Summit for several years.
>

In both cases I think we just need someone to start a separate thread
asking to have them be promoted along with the usual promise to mentor them
for a month or so.

-Brett


>
> I'm happy to trust Victor's perspective as well as Pablo being respectful
> of the merge process.
>
> FWIW, I also believe that triaging issues, writing documentation, and
> contributing code are all valuable to the success of CPython. Without issue
> triage and quality documentation being valued, the users and contributors
> suffer a lack of information and efficiency as well as demotivating
> potential developers.
>
>
> On Jun 13, 2018, at 1:46 PM, Victor Stinner  wrote:
>
> Pablo proved its steady involvment in Python for almost one year with
> multiple significant contributions (new os functions). IMHO you are
> pushing the bar too high.
>
>
> > I think Pablo will be good core developer and agree with the
> description given by Victor.But it seems that he still needs to learn
> something about what changes are good for Python
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Gregory P. Smith]

Quick response:

+0.5

My first reaction was "really?" given the amount of iteration required due
to lack of CPython extension module API experience demonstrated in the
os.posix_spawn PRs.  (I am not surprised to see Serhiy's negative
reaction)  But Pablo shows drive and desire to do good things and an
ability to eventually do it even if there are learning bumps along the
way.  With mentoring and PR reviews (which I'm assuming Victor is signing
up for) I believe Pablo would make a fine core developer.

So +0.5 from me.  I wouldn't give Pablo free reign to make changes yet -
mentoring required - but that is exactly how most of us start off while we
learn.  I know I started that way.

-gps




On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 5:06 AM Victor Stinner  wrote:

> Oh, I forgot to mention that Pablo is already helping me on triagging
> buildbot failures since 1 month.See my email to python-dev for the
> context:
>
> "[Python-Dev] How to watch buildbots?"
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-May/153754.html
>
> You can see his emails on the buildbot-status mailing list:
> https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/buildbot-status.python.org/
>
> Victor
>
> 2018-06-13 18:16 GMT+02:00 Victor Stinner :
> > Hi,
> >
> > I propose to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as a core developer and so
> > open a vote during one week. If there is no strong opposition, I will
> > promote him but also continue to mentor him for a least one month.
> >
> > Pablo is contributing frequently to Python since almost one year. He
> > added os.preadv()/pwritev() to Python 3.7 and os.posix_spawn() to
> > Python 3.8. I am now waiting for his os.copy_file_range() function!
> > (Others are working on it.)
> > https://bugs.python.org/issue26826
> >
> > I am mentoring Pablo Salingo Salgado since January. I am watching his
> > hard work since last September. He made many non trivial and useful
> > contributions to Python.
> >
> > I think that he understands well how Python is developed, is
> > respectful, try to find answers alone before asking, and is eager to
> > learn. In case of doubt, he ask others before doing something, like
> > closing an issue. I trust that Pablo will respect opinions of others,
> > like not merging a PR if someone disagree.
> >
> > Pablo's merged PR:
> >
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aclosed+is%3Apr+author%3Apablogsal+
> >
> > He got 22 commits merged into master between September 2017 and June
> 2018.
> >
> > If Pablo is promoted as a core developer, I propose to continue to be
> > his mentor for at least one month, and ask him before merging any PR.
> >
> > Note: Pablo already has the bug triage permission for 5 months:
> >
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-January/005133.html
> >
> > Victor
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Victor Stinner]

Oh, I forgot to mention that Pablo is already helping me on triagging
buildbot failures since 1 month.See my email to python-dev for the
context:

"[Python-Dev] How to watch buildbots?"
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-May/153754.html

You can see his emails on the buildbot-status mailing list:
https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/buildbot-status.python.org/

Victor

2018-06-13 18:16 GMT+02:00 Victor Stinner :
> Hi,
>
> I propose to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as a core developer and so
> open a vote during one week. If there is no strong opposition, I will
> promote him but also continue to mentor him for a least one month.
>
> Pablo is contributing frequently to Python since almost one year. He
> added os.preadv()/pwritev() to Python 3.7 and os.posix_spawn() to
> Python 3.8. I am now waiting for his os.copy_file_range() function!
> (Others are working on it.)
> https://bugs.python.org/issue26826
>
> I am mentoring Pablo Salingo Salgado since January. I am watching his
> hard work since last September. He made many non trivial and useful
> contributions to Python.
>
> I think that he understands well how Python is developed, is
> respectful, try to find answers alone before asking, and is eager to
> learn. In case of doubt, he ask others before doing something, like
> closing an issue. I trust that Pablo will respect opinions of others,
> like not merging a PR if someone disagree.
>
> Pablo's merged PR:
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aclosed+is%3Apr+author%3Apablogsal+
>
> He got 22 commits merged into master between September 2017 and June 2018.
>
> If Pablo is promoted as a core developer, I propose to continue to be
> his mentor for at least one month, and ask him before merging any PR.
>
> Note: Pablo already has the bug triage permission for 5 months:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-January/005133.html
>
> Victor
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Berker Peksağ]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Victor Stinner  wrote:
> 2018-06-14 0:26 GMT+02:00 Berker Peksağ :
>> I don't care about total number of commits to be honest. It's not so
>> hard to get 50 PRs merged into master in a month or so.
>
> Wait, what? No developer got more than 50 commits merged into master
> in less than one month.

That was just a hypothetical number to explain that only looking at
some numbers can be misleading... But if you really need "real"
numbers, here's a recent example: 16 commits in less than a month:
https://github.com/python/cpython/commits?author=andresdelfino

> Note2: Pablo got 2 more commits merged into master (22) than Berker (20) ;-)

I don't like what you're hinting, but I will give you the benefit of
the doubt. I will just point out that I've reviewed 89 pull requests
since last September. It seems like we have very different
understanding of the differences between contributors and core
developers/maintainers.

>> [1] According to bpo, Pablo has been active in 38 issues:
>
> It seems that he is active, if not very active, on the bug tracker,
> no? But how can I compare this number to other core developers or
> other contributors?

Since their name already mentioned in the thread, you can take a look
at Cherly Sabella's activity on the tracker.

> As I wrote to Serhiy, IMHO you are putting the bar too high.

This isn't about my or someone else's high standards. We keep saying
we need more triagers and reviewers, and we keep promoting people who
didn't do any issue triaging and code review. It's not fair to
contributors who have spent so much time working on these areas.

> Please remind that they are very few contributors with available free
> time and ready to be invested in the long term.

Correct, that's basically the difference between a contributor and a
core developer/maintainer. If they don't have time or motivation to
invest in a project long term, it's perfectly fine. They don't have to
be a core developer to be a valuable member of the community.
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Victor Stinner]

2018-06-14 0:26 GMT+02:00 Berker Peksağ :
> I don't care about total number of commits to be honest. It's not so
> hard to get 50 PRs merged into master in a month or so.

Wait, what? No developer got more than 50 commits merged into master
in less than one month.

Stats between May, 1st and today (one month and a half, longer than
one month), top 5
---
39 Serhiy Storchaka 
31 Victor Stinner 
24 Yury Selivanov 
18 Andrés Delfino 
16 Ned Deily 
---

Statistics on the master branch between September 1st, 2017 and today,
developers with at least 20 commits:
---
221 Serhiy Storchaka
221 Victor Stinner
89 Yury Selivanov
67 Ned Deily
60 Benjamin Peterson
56 Terry Jan Reedy
51 Christian Heimes
41 Eric V. Smith
41 INADA Naoki
37 Antoine Pitrou
36 Raymond Hettinger
35 Steve Dower
34 Cheryl Sabella
34 Andrew Svetlov
31 Oren Milman
29 Barry Warsaw
26 xdegaye
24 Andrés Delfino
22 Eric Snow
21 Pablo Galindo
20 Berker Peksag
---

But if you ignore core developers, here is the top 6 most active contributors:
---
34 Cheryl Sabella
31 Oren Milman
24 Andrés Delfino
21 Pablo Galindo
18 Zackery Spytz
9 Paul Ganssle
---

I let you look at each commit to estimate how much time each
contributor has spent on Python.

Note: Oh, it seems like Pablo got one commit as a different name but
with same email ("Author: Dargor "). The correct
number for Pablo is 22.

Note2: Pablo got 2 more commits merged into master (22) than Berker (20) ;-)


> [1] According to bpo, Pablo has been active in 38 issues:

It seems that he is active, if not very active, on the bug tracker,
no? But how can I compare this number to other core developers or
other contributors?


> Writing high quality code is not the only requirement to become a core 
> developer.
> IMO, being active on bugs.p.o [1] and reviewing pull requests on
> GitHub [2] are more important than writing code or documentation.

I'm not sure that it works in this direction. I expect that once a
developer is promoted as a core dev, they become more active on
reviews and bug triage. It's my (personal) definition of the
additional responsibilities of a core developer. I don't see why a
contributor will spend time on reviews and bug triage before becoming
a core. Writing pull requests is a good way to learn how to produce
good reviews.

There are 90 core developers in the GitHub team: how many of them are
regularly doing reviews and bug triage? Don't expect that a new core
developer will be at least as active, if not more, than existing core
developers. I'm happy if I review 5 pull requests per week. It takes a
lot of time to review properly a PR.

As I wrote to Serhiy, IMHO you are putting the bar too high.

Our role is to mentor and guide contributors to make them feel part of
a team and feel useful by recognizing the value of their work.

Please remind that they are very few contributors with available free
time and ready to be invested in the long term.

In my experience, naturally, when a contributor is promoted, they
become more active in different areas of Python: bug tracker, mailing
list, devguide, etc.


My script to compute stats:
---
import collections
import subprocess
proc = subprocess.run(['git', 'log', '--after=2017-09-01', 'master'],
  stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
  universal_newlines=True)
authors = collections.Counter()
for line in proc.stdout.splitlines():
if line.startswith('Author: '):
line = line[8:]
name = line.split(' <')[0]
authors[name] += 1
for name, commits in authors.most_common():
if commits < 5:
break
print(commits, name)
---

Victor
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Carol Willing]

> On Jun 13, 2018, at 7:30 PM, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> 
> On 6/13/2018 7:03 PM, Carol Willing wrote:
>> +1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is reasonable 
>> to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or after 3 months of 
>> coaching.
>> I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active on the bug 
>> tracker to also be promoted to a core developer.
> 
> A bit off topic, but I would too, as she has been extremely helpful with 
> IDLE.  We have discussed it privately and I offered to sponsor her here 
> whenever she wants me to.  At the moment, she is happy doing what she does 
> with the time she has.
> 
> Terry Jan Reedy
> 

Thanks Terry for discussing with her and mentoring her on IDLE :-)


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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Terry Reedy]

On 6/13/2018 7:03 PM, Carol Willing wrote:
+1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is 
reasonable to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or after 3 
months of coaching.


I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active on the 
bug tracker to also be promoted to a core developer.


A bit off topic, but I would too, as she has been extremely helpful with 
IDLE.  We have discussed it privately and I offered to sponsor her here 
whenever she wants me to.  At the moment, she is happy doing what she 
does with the time she has.


Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Carol Willing]

+1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is reasonable to 
promote Pablo to a core developer either now or after 3 months of coaching.

I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active on the bug 
tracker to also be promoted to a core developer as well as Emily Morehouse who 
has been at the Language Summit for several years.

I'm happy to trust Victor's perspective as well as Pablo being respectful of 
the merge process.

FWIW, I also believe that triaging issues, writing documentation, and 
contributing code are all valuable to the success of CPython. Without issue 
triage and quality documentation being valued, the users and contributors 
suffer a lack of information and efficiency as well as demotivating potential 
developers.


> On Jun 13, 2018, at 1:46 PM, Victor Stinner  > wrote:
> 
> Pablo proved its steady involvment in Python for almost one year with
> multiple significant contributions (new os functions). IMHO you are
> pushing the bar too high.

> I think Pablo will be good core developer and agree with the description 
> given by Victor.But it seems that he still needs to learn something about 
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Berker Peksağ]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 10:38 PM, Serhiy Storchaka  wrote:
> I think Pablo will be good core developer and agree with the description
> given by Victor. But it seems that he still needs to learn something about
> what changes are good for Python.

I agree with Serhiy. Count me -1 for now.

I don't care about total number of commits to be honest. It's not so
hard to get 50 PRs merged into master in a month or so. Writing high
quality code is not the only requirement to become a core developer.
IMO, being active on bugs.p.o [1] and reviewing pull requests on
GitHub [2] are more important than writing code or documentation.

--Berker

[1] According to bpo, Pablo has been active in 38 issues:
https://bugs.python.org/issue?%40search_text=&ignore=file%3Acontent&title=&%40columns=title&id=&%40columns=id&stage=&creation=&creator=&activity=&%40columns=activity&%40sort=activity&actor=&nosy=pablogsal&type=&components=&versions=&dependencies=&assignee=&keywords=&priority=&status=&%40columns=status&resolution=&nosy_count=&message_count=&%40group=&%40pagesize=50&%40startwith=0&%40sortdir=on&%40queryname=&%40old-queryname=&%40action=search

[2] Looking at Pablo's GitHub profile (from October 2017 to June 2018)
most of Pablo's review comments seems to be made in their own PRs.
I've found two non-core developer PRs reviewed by Pablo:
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/6984 and
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/6481
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Victor Stinner]

2018-06-13 21:38 GMT+02:00 Serhiy Storchaka :
>> Pablo's merged PR:
>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aclosed+is%3Apr+author%3Apablogsal+
>
> This includes closed without merging.

(sorry again, bad link.)


> And reverted PRs. Adding ensure_disabled() (bpo-31356) was reverted because
> the implementation caused crash and core developers have doubts about
> usefulness of this feature at all.

Hum, let me see:
https://bugs.python.org/issue31356#msg301407

The feature has been proposed by Raymond Hettinger and approved ("+1")
by Nick Coghlan. Pablo's PR has been merged by Raymond.

It's not like Pablo proposed the idea himself and force to get this
feature merged. Pablo just implemented an idea proposed by two other
core developers.

It happens that core developers disagree each others ;-) The feature
has been quickly removed, it's not a big deal.


> Adding posix_spawn() (bpo-20104) was
> reverted in 3.7 because it was incomplete and had many bugs. It was left in
> 3.8, and the work of completing and fixing it in process.

(a) Two days after Pablo proposed his PR, he wrote an email to
python-dev to get the widest audience to design posix_spawn() API:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-January/151661.html

Gregory P. Smith merged Pablo's PR, after one month of review.

IMHO Pablo did the best to get the correct API and a good implementation.


(b) After the PR has been approved and merged, Serhiy noticed that the
Python function doesn't expose one posix_spawn() feature.

During Pycon US, we discussed what do to with posix_spawn() before the
Python 3.7 release: urge to push a change, or revert. I proposed to
Pablo to remove the feature from 3.7, get more time to stabilize the
API and the implementation in master. He was fine with that.

He could complain and ask to keep the feature (to get it released as
soon as possible), but he didn't.

I don't see anything wrong here. It's not uncommon that a newly merged
feature is still discussed, and I don't see anything wrong with
Pablo's behaviour here. I don't see how we could prevent such further
discussions on posix_spawn(). At least, I don't see how Pablo could
prevent these issues.


> PR 4003 has long  review history, the final merged version is very different 
> from the initial
> one.

"bpo-31786: Make select.poll.poll block if ms < 0 for every value of ms"
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/4003

Oh, I recall that one, I recall that *I* was super pedantic :-)

You (Serhiy) asked to fix select.poll.poll() for negative timeout.
This is exactly what Pablo did. His PR was fine on that aspect.

Then I started to complain and ask to use my private _PyTime API. I
also asked to implement a new rounding mode for _PyTime: a complex
task, because it requires to modify a lot of files, write new tests,
etc. This C code is not well documented.

Then I asked to not only modify select.poll, but many other functions.

The final PR is very different because I requested to modify much more
files and fix many more functions.

At the end, I really like the final commit:
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/2c15b29aea5d6b9c61aa42d2c24a07ff1edb4b46

It adds a new rounding mode (_PyTime_ROUND_UP), write a non-trivial
function test for negative timeout, has a good NEWS entry, etc.

Pablo showed that he is able to implement large change and fix all
cases, not a single case. IMHO it's a good example, rather than a bad
example :-)


> Many of other PRs are documentation fixes.

Is it an issue?


> I think Pablo will be good core developer and agree with the description
> given by Victor. But it seems that he still needs to learn something about
> what changes are good for Python.

Ok, I account your -1 vote.


But I disagree you with :-) Pablo worked on complex changes, so I'm
not surprised that his changes required a lot of discussion, and that
there are some hiccups like posix_spawn() issues. By the way,
posix_spawn() is one of the most complex C function that I know...
Compare its API to dup() API: well, dup() is simpler :-) But
posix_spawn() seems efficient and very useful.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with Pablo's behaviour or the
quality of his work. I understand that you want more reviewers on
posixmodule.c changes, and there is where I expect that Pablo will
help :-) In private, I told Pablo that I consider that the main
difference between a core developer and a contributor is that core
developers are expected to spend more time on reviews and mentoring.

Pablo proved its steady involvment in Python for almost one year with
multiple significant contributions (new os functions). IMHO you are
pushing the bar too high.

Victor
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Victor Stinner]

2018-06-13 18:43 GMT+02:00 Terry Reedy :
>> Pablo's merged PR:
>>
>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aclosed+is%3Apr+author%3Apablogsal+
>
> This includes closed without merging.
>
>> He got 22 commits merged into master between September 2017 and June 2018.
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?page=2&q=is%3Amerged+is%3Apr+author%3Apablogsal&utf8=%E2%9C%93
>
> shows 27 merged, 1 a backport.  Merges were by several different people.
> +1

I computed the number of patches merged into master using:

$ git log master --author=pablog...@gmail.com|grep ^commit -c
22

Oh sorry, I posted the wrong link. I wanted to post this link:
https://github.com/python/cpython/commits?author=pablogsal

I counted manually and I see again 22 changes.

Victor
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Serhiy Storchaka]

13.06.18 19:43, Terry Reedy пише:

On 6/13/2018 12:16 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:

I propose to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as a core developer and so
open a vote during one week. If there is no strong opposition, I will
promote him but also continue to mentor him for a least one month.

Pablo is contributing frequently to Python since almost one year. He
added os.preadv()/pwritev() to Python 3.7 and os.posix_spawn() to
Python 3.8. I am now waiting for his os.copy_file_range() function! x
(Others are working on it.)
https://bugs.python.org/issue26826

I am mentoring Pablo Salingo Salgado since January. I am watching his
hard work since last September. He made many non trivial and useful
contributions to Python.

I think that he understands well how Python is developed, is
respectful, try to find answers alone before asking, and is eager to
learn. In case of doubt, he ask others before doing something, like
closing an issue. I trust that Pablo will respect opinions of others,
like not merging a PR if someone disagree.

Pablo's merged PR:
https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aclosed+is%3Apr+author%3Apablogsal+ 



This includes closed without merging.


And reverted PRs. Adding ensure_disabled() (bpo-31356) was reverted 
because the implementation caused crash and core developers have doubts 
about usefulness of this feature at all. Adding posix_spawn() 
(bpo-20104) was reverted in 3.7 because it was incomplete and had many 
bugs. It was left in 3.8, and the work of completing and fixing it in 
process. PR 4003 has long review history, the final merged version is 
very different from the initial one. Many of other PRs are documentation 
fixes.


I think Pablo will be good core developer and agree with the description 
given by Victor. But it seems that he still needs to learn something 
about what changes are good for Python.


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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

[Terry Reedy]

On 6/13/2018 12:16 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:

Hi,

I propose to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as a core developer and so
open a vote during one week. If there is no strong opposition, I will
promote him but also continue to mentor him for a least one month.

Pablo is contributing frequently to Python since almost one year. He
added os.preadv()/pwritev() to Python 3.7 and os.posix_spawn() to
Python 3.8. I am now waiting for his os.copy_file_range() function!
(Others are working on it.)
https://bugs.python.org/issue26826

I am mentoring Pablo Salingo Salgado since January. I am watching his
hard work since last September. He made many non trivial and useful
contributions to Python.

I think that he understands well how Python is developed, is
respectful, try to find answers alone before asking, and is eager to
learn. In case of doubt, he ask others before doing something, like
closing an issue. I trust that Pablo will respect opinions of others,
like not merging a PR if someone disagree.

Pablo's merged PR:
https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aclosed+is%3Apr+author%3Apablogsal+


This includes closed without merging.


He got 22 commits merged into master between September 2017 and June 2018.


https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?page=2&q=is%3Amerged+is%3Apr+author%3Apablogsal&utf8=%E2%9C%93

shows 27 merged, 1 a backport.  Merges were by several different people.
+1


If Pablo is promoted as a core developer, I propose to continue to be
his mentor for at least one month, and ask him before merging any PR
Note: Pablo already has the bug triage permission for 5 months:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-January/005133.html


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