Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread Martin v. Löwis

Is there a PEP with end-of-life info?


I had meant to write a PEP on security releases for several
years now. Since this still doesn't exist, here is the outline
of the procedures that maintainers have agreed upon:
- bug fix releases are made until the next feature release is
  out (with 2.7 being an exception from that rule)
- security fixes are being provided until 5 years after the initial
  release of the feature release
  * for 2.6, this will be until Oct 1, 2013
  * for 3.1, this will be until July 27, 2014
  * for 3.2, this will be until Feb 20, 2016
  The 5 years horizon is based on requests of system packagers
  (Linux distributions in particular), who often also have 5-year
  cycles for long-term support.
- security releases are made whenever maintainers deem it necessary;
  the two options are
  * commit fixes into source repository only, and release whenever
enough time has passed, or enough changes have accumulated, or
  * release right after a security issue has been resolved
  Which of these to take depends on the nature of the fix, of course.
  The former is intended for system packagers of Python - they can
  incorporate fixes that are official already despite not having been
  released yet.

I'm not aware of a formal policy for 2.7. I guess it will end its life
by BDFL pronouncement; giving it a 5 year bug fix period (which would
end on July 3, 2015) seems a bit long to me - I'd favor to stop bug
fixing along with the 3.4 release. The last BDFL decision (that I'm
aware of) is that 2.7 should be supported "indefinitely", which is
not "infinitely".

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread Georg Brandl

On 10/01/2012 01:30 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:

Is there a PEP with end-of-life info?


I had meant to write a PEP on security releases for several
years now. Since this still doesn't exist, here is the outline
of the procedures that maintainers have agreed upon:
- bug fix releases are made until the next feature release is
out (with 2.7 being an exception from that rule)
- security fixes are being provided until 5 years after the initial
release of the feature release
* for 2.6, this will be until Oct 1, 2013
* for 3.1, this will be until July 27, 2014
* for 3.2, this will be until Feb 20, 2016
The 5 years horizon is based on requests of system packagers
(Linux distributions in particular), who often also have 5-year
cycles for long-term support.
- security releases are made whenever maintainers deem it necessary;
the two options are
* commit fixes into source repository only, and release whenever
  enough time has passed, or enough changes have accumulated, or
* release right after a security issue has been resolved
Which of these to take depends on the nature of the fix, of course.
The former is intended for system packagers of Python - they can
incorporate fixes that are official already despite not having been
released yet.

I'm not aware of a formal policy for 2.7. I guess it will end its life
by BDFL pronouncement; giving it a 5 year bug fix period (which would
end on July 3, 2015) seems a bit long to me - I'd favor to stop bug
fixing along with the 3.4 release. The last BDFL decision (that I'm
aware of) is that 2.7 should be supported "indefinitely", which is
not "infinitely".


I've now added lifespan information to the 3.2 and 3.3 release schedule
PEPs, perhaps Barry and Benjamin could do the same for 2.6 to 3.1.

Georg

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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le lundi 01 octobre 2012 à 13:30 +0200, "Martin v. Löwis" a écrit :
> I'm not aware of a formal policy for 2.7. I guess it will end its life
> by BDFL pronouncement; giving it a 5 year bug fix period (which would
> end on July 3, 2015) seems a bit long to me - I'd favor to stop bug
> fixing along with the 3.4 release.

"5 years" was once recorded in the 2.7 release page:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-April/573621.html

... although it isn't anymore:
“Python 2.7 is scheduled to be the last major version in the 2.x series
before it moves into an extended maintenance period.”
http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7/

Benjamin is the 2.7 release manager (good choice on his part ;-)), and
on this thread he seems to be of the advice that 5 years is the number.

Perhaps we can relax the 2.7 bugfix policy a bit: bugfix releases are
made for 5 years, but core developers are free not to port minor
bugfixes if they want to save up some time.

Regards

Antoine.


-- 
Software development and contracting: http://pro.pitrou.net


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Re: [python-committers] contributor forms (was Re: contributor form for Alexander Belopolsky)

2012-10-01 Thread Kurt B. Kaiser
Unfortunately, the list of core developers with the form flag set
doesn't match the actual forms on file.  For example, I did not find my
form in the files sent to me by the previous Administrator.

I'm currently in the process of having all the forms scanned.  I'll then
check them into the PSF repository, along with the ones received by fax
over the past couple of years.

Once that's done, we can address any missing forms.

KBK

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Chris Jerdonek wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012, Jesús Cea Avión wrote:
> >
> > Alexander Belopolsky is a core developer but the bugtracker doesn't [edit: 
> > but now does]
> > have a "contributor form received" flag for him?
> 
> FWIW, you can see a list of all such core developers using this URL:
> 
> http://bugs.python.org/user?iscommitter=1&contrib_form=0&@action=search&@sort=username&@pagesize=300
> 
> There are currently 35 without a contributor form (though I realize
> that many of them may not currently be active).
> 
> --Chris
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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Oct 01, 2012, at 02:23 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:

>I've now added lifespan information to the 3.2 and 3.3 release schedule
>PEPs, perhaps Barry and Benjamin could do the same for 2.6 to 3.1.

Done for PEP 361, which actually covers both the 2.6 and 3.0 releases.  I've
described Python 3.0 as not being maintained for any purpose.

Cheers,
-Barry

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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Oct 01, 2012, at 01:30 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:

>I had meant to write a PEP on security releases for several
>years now.

+1

>Since this still doesn't exist, here is the outline
>of the procedures that maintainers have agreed upon:
>- bug fix releases are made until the next feature release is
>   out (with 2.7 being an exception from that rule)
>- security fixes are being provided until 5 years after the initial
>   release of the feature release
>   * for 2.6, this will be until Oct 1, 2013
>   * for 3.1, this will be until July 27, 2014
>   * for 3.2, this will be until Feb 20, 2016
>   The 5 years horizon is based on requests of system packagers
>   (Linux distributions in particular), who often also have 5-year
>   cycles for long-term support.
>- security releases are made whenever maintainers deem it necessary;
>   the two options are
>   * commit fixes into source repository only, and release whenever
> enough time has passed, or enough changes have accumulated, or
>   * release right after a security issue has been resolved
>   Which of these to take depends on the nature of the fix, of course.
>   The former is intended for system packagers of Python - they can
>   incorporate fixes that are official already despite not having been
>   released yet.

The only thing missing is whether releases are made source-only or with binary
packages for Windows and Mac.  My understanding is that once a release goes
into security-only mode, binary releases cease.

Cheers,
-Barry
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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Oct 01, 2012, at 02:44 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

>"5 years" was once recorded in the 2.7 release page:
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-April/573621.html
>
>... although it isn't anymore:
>“Python 2.7 is scheduled to be the last major version in the 2.x series
>before it moves into an extended maintenance period.”
>http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7/
>
>Benjamin is the 2.7 release manager (good choice on his part ;-)), and
>on this thread he seems to be of the advice that 5 years is the number.
>
>Perhaps we can relax the 2.7 bugfix policy a bit: bugfix releases are
>made for 5 years, but core developers are free not to port minor
>bugfixes if they want to save up some time.

I think we should make a formal commitment to 2.7's lifespan, whatever that
would be.  When discussions about Python 2's ultimate demise come up, we
should be able to point to the PEP for the official declaration, since once
Python 2.7 maintenance ends, so does effectively Python 2's lifespan.

the-champagne-is-cooling-as-we-speak-ly y'rs,
-Barry
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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread Terry Reedy

On 10/1/2012 8:23 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:

On 10/01/2012 01:30 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:

Is there a PEP with end-of-life info?


I had meant to write a PEP on security releases for several
years now. Since this still doesn't exist, here is the outline
of the procedures that maintainers have agreed upon:
- bug fix releases are made until the next feature release is
out (with 2.7 being an exception from that rule)
- security fixes are being provided until 5 years after the initial
release of the feature release
* for 2.6, this will be until Oct 1, 2013
* for 3.1, this will be until July 27, 2014
* for 3.2, this will be until Feb 20, 2016
The 5 years horizon is based on requests of system packagers
(Linux distributions in particular), who often also have 5-year
cycles for long-term support.
- security releases are made whenever maintainers deem it necessary;
the two options are
* commit fixes into source repository only, and release whenever
  enough time has passed, or enough changes have accumulated, or
* release right after a security issue has been resolved
Which of these to take depends on the nature of the fix, of course.
The former is intended for system packagers of Python - they can
incorporate fixes that are official already despite not having been
released yet.

I'm not aware of a formal policy for 2.7. I guess it will end its life
by BDFL pronouncement; giving it a 5 year bug fix period (which would
end on July 3, 2015) seems a bit long to me - I'd favor to stop bug
fixing along with the 3.4 release. The last BDFL decision (that I'm
aware of) is that 2.7 should be supported "indefinitely", which is
not "infinitely".


I've now added lifespan information to the 3.2 and 3.3 release schedule
PEPs, perhaps Barry and Benjamin could do the same for 2.6 to 3.1.


Someone recently said they could not find life-cycle information on 
python.org. I think it would be good to have one PEP or website page 
that has the general policy, given above by Martin, the exception for 
2.7, and a summary table with one line per release (back to say, 2.5), 
giving number and date for


Initial release  Last bug fix release  Last security release
...
3.3.0  2012 Sep 30   (2014 ???)(2017 Sep)

(tentative dates in parens)

Terry

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Re: [python-committers] 3.3.1 two months away?

2012-10-01 Thread Terry Reedy

On 10/1/2012 1:02 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:


You are right that we should have information about bugfix/security mode
and
about end-of-life; I propose to put them in the respective release schedule
PEPs.


From the commit:

> +3.3 will receive bugfix updates approximately every 4-6 months until

> +3.3.1 schedule
> +--
> +
> +- 3.3.1 beta 1: planned for Oct/Nov 2012

I presume you see a number of little fixes coming that should not too 
long. I almost missed this ;-).


Terry

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Re: [python-committers] 3.3.1 two months away?

2012-10-01 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:57:45 -0400, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> On 10/1/2012 1:02 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:
> 
> > You are right that we should have information about bugfix/security mode
> > and
> > about end-of-life; I propose to put them in the respective release schedule
> > PEPs.
> 
>  From the commit:
> 
>  > +3.3 will receive bugfix updates approximately every 4-6 months until
> 
>  > +3.3.1 schedule
>  > +--
>  > +
>  > +- 3.3.1 beta 1: planned for Oct/Nov 2012
> 
> I presume you see a number of little fixes coming that should not too 
> long. I almost missed this ;-).

I believe Georg is basing this on past experience, both ours and the
general software community...the users *always* find nasty bugs only
after the first production release :)

I have some hope we did a little better this time, though.  Judging by
the bug reports we got a bunch of pre-testing from both the Gentoo team
and Ubuntu, and I'm pretty sure their testing has been more extensive
this time than it was for previous 3.x releases.

On the other hand, Gentoo (Arfrever) already found one crasher
post-release...but fortunately it only happens in debug builds (although
that could mean there is a behavior bug in non-debug builds).

--David
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Re: [python-committers] 3.3.1 two months away?

2012-10-01 Thread Georg Brandl

On 10/01/2012 04:57 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:

On 10/1/2012 1:02 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:


You are right that we should have information about bugfix/security mode
and
about end-of-life; I propose to put them in the respective release schedule
PEPs.


  From the commit:

  > +3.3 will receive bugfix updates approximately every 4-6 months until

  > +3.3.1 schedule
  > +--
  > +
  > +- 3.3.1 beta 1: planned for Oct/Nov 2012

I presume you see a number of little fixes coming that should not too
long. I almost missed this ;-).


No, in fact we have a security fix in the pipeline; the point releases for
all branches will come out when the respective patch is finished.

That we can quickly fix not-so-critical but annoying bugs found by users
in 3.3.0 is a nice side-effect.

cheers,
Georg

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Re: [python-committers] 3.3.1 two months away?

2012-10-01 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2012/10/1 R. David Murray :
> On the other hand, Gentoo (Arfrever) already found one crasher
> post-release...but fortunately it only happens in debug builds (although
> that could mean there is a behavior bug in non-debug builds).

It definitely happens in release builds.


-- 
Regards,
Benjamin
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Re: [python-committers] 3.3.1 two months away?

2012-10-01 Thread Georg Brandl

On 10/01/2012 07:30 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:

2012/10/1 R. David Murray :

On the other hand, Gentoo (Arfrever) already found one crasher
post-release...but fortunately it only happens in debug builds (although
that could mean there is a behavior bug in non-debug builds).


It definitely happens in release builds.


I guess you're talking about the *second* crasher :|

Georg

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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2012/10/1 Georg Brandl :
> I've now added lifespan information to the 3.2 and 3.3 release schedule
> PEPs, perhaps Barry and Benjamin could do the same for 2.6 to 3.1.

I just updated the 3.1 and 2.7 schedules.


-- 
Regards,
Benjamin
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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread Jesus Cea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 01/10/12 14:23, Georg Brandl wrote:
> I've now added lifespan information to the 3.2 and 3.3 release 
> schedule PEPs, perhaps Barry and Benjamin could do the same for
> 2.6 to 3.1.

http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-0398/

"""
3.3 Lifespan

3.3 will receive bugfix updates approximately every 4-6 months until
one release after the release of 3.4.0 final. After that, security
updates (source only) will be released until 5 years after the release
of 3.3.0 final, which will be September 2017.
"""

I am not a native english speaker, but I guess the intention is to do
a final bugfix release for 3.3 after 3.4.0 is out, before moving 3.3
to "security fixes only". Could you possibly clarify the wording in
the PEP?.

Sorry if I am being a pain :).

- -- 
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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 01:41:25 +0200, Jesus Cea  wrote:
> On 01/10/12 14:23, Georg Brandl wrote:
> > I've now added lifespan information to the 3.2 and 3.3 release 
> > schedule PEPs, perhaps Barry and Benjamin could do the same for
> > 2.6 to 3.1.
> 
> http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-0398/
> 
> """
> 3.3 Lifespan
> 
> 3.3 will receive bugfix updates approximately every 4-6 months until
> one release after the release of 3.4.0 final. After that, security
> updates (source only) will be released until 5 years after the release
> of 3.3.0 final, which will be September 2017.
> """
> 
> I am not a native english speaker, but I guess the intention is to do
> a final bugfix release for 3.3 after 3.4.0 is out, before moving 3.3
> to "security fixes only". Could you possibly clarify the wording in
> the PEP?.

As a native English speaker it is not immediately obvious to me how
to make that clearer.  Is it that the antecedent of "one release" isn't
clear?

--David
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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread Jesus Cea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/10/12 02:25, R. David Murray wrote:
>> 3.3 will receive bugfix updates approximately every 4-6 months
>> until one release after the release of 3.4.0 final. After that,
>> security
[...]

> As a native English speaker it is not immediately obvious to me
> how to make that clearer.  Is it that the antecedent of "one
> release" isn't clear?

I naivelly interpret "until one release after the release of 3.4.0" as
talking about doing another 3.4 release. I find it ambiguous about
what branch we are talking about.

Maybe something in the line of "the last bugfix release of 3.3 will be
done after 3.4.0 is published". Or "After 3.4.0 is released, we will
release a final bugfix release of 3.3".

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.  _/_/  _/_/_/_/  _/_/  _/_/
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Re: [python-committers] Branches support status (Re: 3.3 branch created in main repository)

2012-10-01 Thread Georg Brandl

On 10/02/2012 02:37 AM, Jesus Cea wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/10/12 02:25, R. David Murray wrote:

3.3 will receive bugfix updates approximately every 4-6 months
until one release after the release of 3.4.0 final. After that,
security

[...]


As a native English speaker it is not immediately obvious to me
how to make that clearer.  Is it that the antecedent of "one
release" isn't clear?


I naivelly interpret "until one release after the release of 3.4.0" as
talking about doing another 3.4 release. I find it ambiguous about
what branch we are talking about.

Maybe something in the line of "the last bugfix release of 3.3 will be
done after 3.4.0 is published". Or "After 3.4.0 is released, we will
release a final bugfix release of 3.3".


I've tried to reword it now.

Georg

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