Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On sam., 2013-11-30 at 08:58 +0200, Ezio Melotti wrote:
> I personally don't have problems talking with him, and, if we decided
> not to ban him, I'm available to spend more time talking with him and
> being a mediator.

And the end result is that the community spends time "mediating" with a
jerk instead of actually caring about the decent people who report
issues or try to contribute. This is completely ridiculous and
destructive.

Regards

Antoine.


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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread Alex Gaynor
These steps sound right to me. Make the notification a private email, not a
public one -- this doesn't have to be a big deal. It's not a warning shot
to other people, this is one isolated individual, and we should treat it as
such.

Alex


On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:44 AM, Nick Coghlan  wrote:

> On 30 November 2013 15:23, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> > Nick,
> >
> > I think we've seen the issue from every possible side now. I trust your
> > judgment that he has pulled this trick once too many times. So please
> > implement the ban. Or wait until the next infraction -- that's up to you.
> > Either way, since the archives of this list are public, our deliberations
> > will stand up to scrutiny.
> >
> > My offer to mediate (*after* he's been banned) stands, but it's up to
> you if
> > and how you want to mention that to Anatoly.
>
> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to propose:
>
> - flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
> python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
> where his presence is considered disruptive?).
>
> - revoke his tracker privileges. If he would like something done on
> the tracker, he can ask Guido or Ezio to make the change on his
> behalf.
>
> I'm willing to be the bearer of bad news, and let Anatoly know this is
> being done, and cc' Guido and Ezio (as I'll also pass along their
> offers of assistance).
>
> Regards,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   [email protected]   |   Brisbane, Australia
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-- 
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to
say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall (summarizing Voltaire)
"The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero
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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan  wrote:

> On 30 November 2013 15:23, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> > Nick,
> >
> > I think we've seen the issue from every possible side now. I trust your
> > judgment that he has pulled this trick once too many times. So please
> > implement the ban. Or wait until the next infraction -- that's up to you.
> > Either way, since the archives of this list are public, our deliberations
> > will stand up to scrutiny.
> >
> > My offer to mediate (*after* he's been banned) stands, but it's up to
> you if
> > and how you want to mention that to Anatoly.
>
> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to propose:
>
> - flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
> python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
> where his presence is considered disruptive?).
>
> - revoke his tracker privileges. If he would like something done on
> the tracker, he can ask Guido or Ezio to make the change on his
> behalf.
>
> I'm willing to be the bearer of bad news, and let Anatoly know this is
> being done, and cc' Guido and Ezio (as I'll also pass along their
> offers of assistance).
>

This plan sounds good. I agree with Alex that the initial email has to be
private. There's no need here for a public humiliation that will harm both
Anatoly and Python.

One thing that's not clear from the above is the duration of the ban. Guido
was mentioning some minimal cool-off period before Anatoly can discuss his
reinstatement with Guido.

Eli
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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Nov 30, 2013, at 05:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

>- flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
>python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
>where his presence is considered disruptive?).

Done, for [email protected] on all three lists.

-Barry
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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 1 Dec 2013 01:49, "Eli Bendersky"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan  wrote:
>>
>> On 30 November 2013 15:23, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>> > Nick,
>> >
>> > I think we've seen the issue from every possible side now. I trust your
>> > judgment that he has pulled this trick once too many times. So please
>> > implement the ban. Or wait until the next infraction -- that's up to
you.
>> > Either way, since the archives of this list are public, our
deliberations
>> > will stand up to scrutiny.
>> >
>> > My offer to mediate (*after* he's been banned) stands, but it's up to
you if
>> > and how you want to mention that to Anatoly.
>>
>> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to propose:
>>
>> - flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
>> python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
>> where his presence is considered disruptive?).
>>
>> - revoke his tracker privileges. If he would like something done on
>> the tracker, he can ask Guido or Ezio to make the change on his
>> behalf.
>>
>> I'm willing to be the bearer of bad news, and let Anatoly know this is
>> being done, and cc' Guido and Ezio (as I'll also pass along their
>> offers of assistance).
>
>
> This plan sounds good. I agree with Alex that the initial email has to be
private. There's no need here for a public humiliation that will harm both
Anatoly and Python.
>
> One thing that's not clear from the above is the duration of the ban.
Guido was mentioning some minimal cool-off period before Anatoly can
discuss his reinstatement with Guido.

I'm thinking at least 12 months, and then Guido and Ezio can decide whether
or not to propose that the suspension be lifted.

Regards,
Nick.

>
> Eli
>
>
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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On sam., 2013-11-30 at 11:10 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Nov 30, 2013, at 05:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> 
> >- flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
> >python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
> >where his presence is considered disruptive?).
> 
> Done, for [email protected] on all three lists.

Thank you very much for stepping up, Barry and Nick.

cheers

Antoine.


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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread Brett Cannon
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

> On sam., 2013-11-30 at 11:10 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> > On Nov 30, 2013, at 05:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> >
> > >- flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
> > >python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
> > >where his presence is considered disruptive?).
> >
> > Done, for [email protected] on all three lists.
>
> Thank you very much for stepping up, Barry and Nick.
>

Thanks from me as well.
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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread Brett Cannon
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> On Nov 30, 2013, at 05:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> >- flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
> >python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
> >where his presence is considered disruptive?).
>
> Done, for [email protected] on all three lists.
>

For python-ideas, if someone wants to allow Anatoly's posts through then I
will happily make them an admin of the list, but I have to just admit I
can't be trusted to do it objectively and I don't want Anatoly to receive
unjust treatment; there's just too much history after I tried to point out
how he was being rude years ago and ended up with him attacking the PSF
which I took personally. I'll ask Titus if he thinks he's up for it but I
don't want to force him to shoulder the entire burden if doesn't think he
can do it objectively either.
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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 1 December 2013 01:49, Eli Bendersky  wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan  wrote:
>> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to propose:
>>
>> - flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
>> python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
>> where his presence is considered disruptive?).
>>
>> - revoke his tracker privileges. If he would like something done on
>> the tracker, he can ask Guido or Ezio to make the change on his
>> behalf.
>>
>> I'm willing to be the bearer of bad news, and let Anatoly know this is
>> being done, and cc' Guido and Ezio (as I'll also pass along their
>> offers of assistance).
>
>
> This plan sounds good. I agree with Alex that the initial email has to be
> private. There's no need here for a public humiliation that will harm both
> Anatoly and Python.

OK, I've sent the notification to Anatoly. I cc'ed Guido and Ezio
(since I included their offer to mediate tracker access) and also
bcc'ed the list admins for the three currently affected lists (so they
know why his posts start appearing in the moderation queue).

I don't appear to have the necessary tracker access to actually move
his account to read-only status, though (this change should be made on
the meta-tracker as well).

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread Guido van Rossum
Nick,

Thanks for doing this emotionally grueling task.

--Guido

On Saturday, November 30, 2013, Nick Coghlan wrote:

> On 1 December 2013 01:49, Eli Bendersky >
> wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan 
> > >
> wrote:
> >> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to propose:
> >>
> >> - flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
> >> python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
> >> where his presence is considered disruptive?).
> >>
> >> - revoke his tracker privileges. If he would like something done on
> >> the tracker, he can ask Guido or Ezio to make the change on his
> >> behalf.
> >>
> >> I'm willing to be the bearer of bad news, and let Anatoly know this is
> >> being done, and cc' Guido and Ezio (as I'll also pass along their
> >> offers of assistance).
> >
> >
> > This plan sounds good. I agree with Alex that the initial email has to be
> > private. There's no need here for a public humiliation that will harm
> both
> > Anatoly and Python.
>
> OK, I've sent the notification to Anatoly. I cc'ed Guido and Ezio
> (since I included their offer to mediate tracker access) and also
> bcc'ed the list admins for the three currently affected lists (so they
> know why his posts start appearing in the moderation queue).
>
> I don't appear to have the necessary tracker access to actually move
> his account to read-only status, though (this change should be made on
> the meta-tracker as well).
>
> Regards,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   [email protected]|   Brisbane,
> Australia
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (on iPad)
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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread R. David Murray
On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 12:12:08 +1000, Nick Coghlan  wrote:
> I don't appear to have the necessary tracker access to actually move
> his account to read-only status, though (this change should be made on
> the meta-tracker as well).

You should have the necessary privileges on the tracker now, since I
think you ought to.  (I don't have them on the meta-tracker, so Martin
will need to handle that one.)

On the other hand, I'm not actually sure what kind of access is left
when you remove all the roles from a user.  I did notice the other day
that email to the tracker still seems to work for new issues (I think
it was a new issue, I don't remember the sequence of events for sure),
so we may in fact still need to create a new role for this situation.

--David
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Re: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

2013-11-30 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 01.12.2013 03:12, schrieb Nick Coghlan:
> On 1 December 2013 01:49, Eli Bendersky  wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan  wrote:
>>> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to propose:
>>>
>>> - flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for
>>> python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists
>>> where his presence is considered disruptive?).
>>>
>>> - revoke his tracker privileges. If he would like something done on
>>> the tracker, he can ask Guido or Ezio to make the change on his
>>> behalf.
>>>
>>> I'm willing to be the bearer of bad news, and let Anatoly know this is
>>> being done, and cc' Guido and Ezio (as I'll also pass along their
>>> offers of assistance).
>>
>>
>> This plan sounds good. I agree with Alex that the initial email has to be
>> private. There's no need here for a public humiliation that will harm both
>> Anatoly and Python.
> 
> OK, I've sent the notification to Anatoly. I cc'ed Guido and Ezio
> (since I included their offer to mediate tracker access) and also
> bcc'ed the list admins for the three currently affected lists (so they
> know why his posts start appearing in the moderation queue).

Thanks!  I'm sorry to have spawned such a long and draining discussion,
but I'm convinced it had to be done at some point.

cheers,
Georg

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