Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status (was: Missing In Action)

2018-06-18 Thread M.-A. Lemburg 
Victor:

please make sure that you contact the developers whos status
you intend to modify prior to doing so. Being a core developer
of Python is a status and not something that should be changed
without consent by the developer in question.

Also note that the dev list log doesn't include all core developers.
Data from before the move to SVN in 2006 is essentially missing,
since AFAIK we never kept around a log of who received the core
bit before that.

And there were times when the core bit itself did not exist, since
all patches had to go through the small team around Guido
which had access to the CVS system at the time.

Overall, I think that removing repo or bpo permissions should be
kept separate from the status itself. It would probably be wise
to send around reminders to all core devs who have access and
have not used their permissions every few year. The keys of those
who don't respond could then be disabled, without affecting
anything else; and, of course, easily be reenabled if needed,
without much process either.

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Jun 18 2018)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...   http://products.egenix.com/
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On 16.06.2018 01:59, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Last months, we debated about the number of *active* core developers.
> 
> The problem is that there are 3 lists and each has different numbers
> of core developers: 90 according to GitHub, 170 according to
> bugs.python.org.
> 
> * https://github.com/orgs/python/teams/python-core/members
> * 
> https://bugs.python.org/user?iscommitter=1&@action=search&@sort=username&@pagesize=300
> * https://devguide.python.org/developers/
> 
> I propose to move inactive core developers to a new list (ex:
> "Inactive Core Developers") and remove their permission for security
> reasons. If the core developer shows up, they will just have to ask a
> GitHub administrator (like Brett Cannon) to be added again.
> 
> My intent is to enhance security and better track of the current
> number of active core developers.
> 
> In practice, it should only mean removing these inactive developers
> from the list of core developers on bugs.python.org. To make sure that
> a developer can become again a core developer, we should track that we
> dropped their priviledge. We can add new section in the devguide,
> near:
> https://devguide.python.org/developers/#permissions-dropped-on-request
> 
> There are already two lists of inactive core developers in the
> devguide: "Permissions Dropped on Request" and "Permissions Dropped
> after Loss of Contact".
> 
> I propose to start by removing all core developers who didn't migrate
> to GitHub yet, since it's a simple way to check if they are active
> since February 2017.
> 
> I can work on a concrete list of developers, but it seems like it will
> take me some time. Some developers are cores according to
> bugs.python.org but I cannot find them in the devguide list. Some
> developers are no longer core devs according to devguide, but still
> core in bugs.python.org. There are some inconsistencies.
> 
> Victor
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Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status (was: Missing In Action)

2018-06-18 Thread Nick Coghlan 
On 18 June 2018 at 18:07, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> Overall, I think that removing repo or bpo permissions should be
> kept separate from the status itself. It would probably be wise
> to send around reminders to all core devs who have access and
> have not used their permissions every few year. The keys of those
> who don't respond could then be disabled, without affecting
> anything else; and, of course, easily be reenabled if needed,
> without much process either.

Aye, that's the key concept behind adding an explicit "Dormant" status
for core developers - they're folks that are still trusted with core
commit privileges if they choose to exercise them, but while they're
not using their access, it's better to deactivate their credentials to
reduce the potential for compromise.

We'd add a note to the developer guide that gave instructions on how
to request reactivation (likely just "Check the developer guide to
ensure you're up to speed with any changes since you were last active,
then past to python-committers requesting that your credentials be
reactivated").

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

2018-06-18 Thread Antoine Pitrou 

Le 14/06/2018 à 04:30, Terry Reedy a écrit :
> On 6/13/2018 7:03 PM, Carol Willing wrote:
>> +1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is 
>> reasonable to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or after 3 
>> months of coaching.
>>
>> I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active on the 
>> bug tracker to also be promoted to a core developer.
> 
> A bit off topic, but I would too, as she has been extremely helpful with 
> IDLE. 

It's very nice that we're getting new active contributors.
OTOH if Cheryl is mostly active on the bug tracker, does she need commit
rights in order to participate properly?  Or did she also review PRs or
submit some of her own?

Regards

Antoine.
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

2018-06-18 Thread Antoine Pitrou 

Le 14/06/2018 à 19:25, Gregory P. Smith a écrit :
> Quick response:
> 
> +0.5
> 
> But Pablo shows drive and desire to do good things and an
> ability to eventually do it even if there are learning bumps along the
> way.

This is my impression as well, having interacted with Pablo on a single
PR on which I ended up proposing another approach that I implemented myself.

> With mentoring and PR reviews (which I'm assuming Victor is
> signing up for) I believe Pablo would make a fine core developer.
> 
> So +0.5 from me.  I wouldn't give Pablo free reign to make changes yet -
> mentoring required - but that is exactly how most of us start off while
> we learn.

Same feeling here.  Also Pablo seems to tackle non-trivial issues, which
may explain some of the clumsiness.  +0.5 from me.

Regards

Antoine.
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

2018-06-18 Thread Brett Cannon 
On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 11:17 Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

>
> Le 14/06/2018 à 04:30, Terry Reedy a écrit :
> > On 6/13/2018 7:03 PM, Carol Willing wrote:
> >> +1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is
> >> reasonable to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or after 3
> >> months of coaching.
> >>
> >> I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active on the
> >> bug tracker to also be promoted to a core developer.
> >
> > A bit off topic, but I would too, as she has been extremely helpful with
> > IDLE.
>
> It's very nice that we're getting new active contributors.
> OTOH if Cheryl is mostly active on the bug tracker, does she need commit
> rights in order to participate properly?  Or did she also review PRs or
> submit some of her own?
>
>
Cheryl is actually the 6th most active contributor by commits over the past
year:
https://github.com/python/cpython/graphs/contributors?from=2017-06-18&to=2018-06-18&type=c
(IOW only Victor, you, Yury, Terry, and Ned have more commits since
2017-06-18).
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Re: [python-committers] Maintenance Tasks

2018-06-18 Thread Brett Cannon 
On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 at 17:44 Victor Stinner  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> At FOSDEM (last February), I saw an interesting talk by VM (Vicky)
> Brasseur:
> "Passing the Baton: Succession planning for FOSS leadership"
>
> She explains that the maintenance of a project should be splited into
> small tasks, and that each task should be done by at least two people.
> Why at least two, and not only one? Well, sometimes you may want to
> take holiday, one of your family member may become sick, or maybe you
> are simply bored and wants to do something else. You may have heard
> about the "bus factor", but I dislike this name because it sounds like
> a very unlikely event, whereas people leaving for whatever reason is
> common.
>
> It's also about documenting what you are doing to be able to pass the
> task to someone else. What should be documented? Well, here is where
> the second player matters: document enough until someone else is
> autonomous on the task.
>
> What are Python maintenance tasks? I identified the following tasks:
> http://pythondev.readthedocs.io/maintenance_tasks.html
>
> Copy of my list:
>
> * `Review and merge pull requests
> `_. The merge action is
> restricted to core developers.
>   Maintainers: active core developers (June 2018: around 34 core devs).
> * `Bug triage `_: closing a bug requires the
> bug triage
>   permission. Maintainers: active core developers.
> * `Check for buildbot failures
>    >`_:
>   Read logs of each buildbot failure, check if the failure is known. If the
>   failure is known, maybe mention the new failure in the existing bug.
>   Otherwise, open a new bug. Then reply to the email with a link to the
> bug.
>   Maintainers: Victor Stinner, Pablo Salingo Salgado.
> * Run bugs.python.org: fix bugs, deploy new version. See the
>   `meta bug tracker `_ for
> bugs
>   of bugs.python.org itself (not for Python bugs). Roundup is going to be
>   deployed in a Docker container on OpenShift. Maintainers:
>   Ezio Melotti, Brett Cannon, Maciej Szulik.
>

I'm not a maintainer of bugs.python.org.


> * `Run pythontest.net `_. Maintainers: ?
> * Run GitHub bots. Maintainers: Brett Cannon and Mariatta Wijaya.
> * Update vendored external libraries. Maintainers: ?
> * Update unicodedata on new Unicode release. Latest update (Unicode 11.0):
>   https://bugs.python.org/issue33778. Maintainer: Benajamin Peterson.
>
> I likely forget many tasks, since "maintenance" is a large topic and
> there are some tasks that are only be done rarely (like releases?).
>
>
> By the way, I also started to list known administrators. Some actions
> require administrators who are the only ones allowed to do actions.
>
> * Mailing lists: create a new mailing list. Maintainer: "postmaster" (who
> is
>   the current postmaster?).
>

There's a couple.


> * Bug tracker: give "bug triage permission". Administrators: Ezio Melotti,
>   Ned Deily(?), R. David Murray.
>

Also me.


> * GitHub cpython: add new core developers. Administrators: Brett Cannon,
>   Ned Deily, others(?).
>

Me and any release manager.

-Brett


>
>
> I chose to start discussing maintenance tasks with core developers
> only (python-committers mailing list) since many tasks are reserved to
> (or at least currently done by) core developers. And I'm not sure that
> the concept of "maintenance tasks" makes sense, so I prefer to start
> discussing it with smaller audience :-)
>
> Note: The talk title is "Passing the Baton: Succession planning for
> FOSS leadership", but I don't ask here your BDFL to pass the baton ;-)
> I'm talking about the rest of talk.
>
> Victor
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

2018-06-18 Thread Antoine Pitrou 

Thanks for correcting me.
(by the way I'm 8th in that list... Serhiy is 2nd, not me ;-))

Regards

Antoine.


Le 18/06/2018 à 20:37, Brett Cannon a écrit :
> 
> 
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 11:17 Antoine Pitrou  > wrote:
> 
> 
> Le 14/06/2018 à 04:30, Terry Reedy a écrit :
> > On 6/13/2018 7:03 PM, Carol Willing wrote:
> >> +1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is
> >> reasonable to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or
> after 3
> >> months of coaching.
> >>
> >> I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active
> on the
> >> bug tracker to also be promoted to a core developer.
> >
> > A bit off topic, but I would too, as she has been extremely
> helpful with
> > IDLE.
> 
> It's very nice that we're getting new active contributors.
> OTOH if Cheryl is mostly active on the bug tracker, does she need commit
> rights in order to participate properly?  Or did she also review PRs or
> submit some of her own?
> 
> 
> Cheryl is actually the 6th most active contributor by commits over the
> past year:
> https://github.com/python/cpython/graphs/contributors?from=2017-06-18&to=2018-06-18&type=c
> (IOW only Victor, you, Yury, Terry, and Ned have more commits since
> 2017-06-18).
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Re: [python-committers] Maintenance Tasks

2018-06-18 Thread Antoine Pitrou 

Le 16/06/2018 à 02:43, Victor Stinner a écrit :
> 
> I chose to start discussing maintenance tasks with core developers
> only (python-committers mailing list) since many tasks are reserved to
> (or at least currently done by) core developers. And I'm not sure that
> the concept of "maintenance tasks" makes sense, so I prefer to start
> discussing it with smaller audience :-)

I would say that maintenance tasks are probably 90% of CPython
development (in the broad sense) these days.  Well, until a team of
experienced developers decide to work full time on a JIT for 3/4 years,
of course ;-)

Regards

Antoine.
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Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status (was: Missing In Action)

2018-06-18 Thread Brett Cannon 
On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 06:43 Nick Coghlan  wrote:

> On 18 June 2018 at 18:07, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> > Overall, I think that removing repo or bpo permissions should be
> > kept separate from the status itself. It would probably be wise
> > to send around reminders to all core devs who have access and
> > have not used their permissions every few year. The keys of those
> > who don't respond could then be disabled, without affecting
> > anything else; and, of course, easily be reenabled if needed,
> > without much process either.
>
> Aye, that's the key concept behind adding an explicit "Dormant" status
> for core developers - they're folks that are still trusted with core
> commit privileges if they choose to exercise them, but while they're
> not using their access, it's better to deactivate their credentials to
> reduce the potential for compromise.
>
> We'd add a note to the developer guide that gave instructions on how
> to request reactivation (likely just "Check the developer guide to
> ensure you're up to speed with any changes since you were last active,
> then past to python-committers requesting that your credentials be
> reactivated").
>

Right, no one's role of having been a core dev will be wiped from history,
they just won't have the core dev logo next to their bugs.python.org
username in the issue tracker (which if they are so dormant to have not
added their GitHub username then  they probably don't care about that
anyway ;) . And flipping everything back on is a radio button and a word in
bugs.python.org if their triage rights are removed and clicking on a button
on a web page on GitHub if we clean up for dev access on the repository.
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Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status (was: Missing In Action)

2018-06-18 Thread Guido van Rossum 
Hm, unless I misunderstood, MAL's

> Being a core developer of Python is a status

suggests that core devs might want to keep this status since it confers
"status" on their person (it looks good on a resume for sure). And I
wouldn't want to make it any harder for a 3rd party to verify someone's
claim to this status in their resume.

Marc-Andre, is that what you meant?

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:59 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 06:43 Nick Coghlan  wrote:
>
>> On 18 June 2018 at 18:07, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> > Overall, I think that removing repo or bpo permissions should be
>> > kept separate from the status itself. It would probably be wise
>> > to send around reminders to all core devs who have access and
>> > have not used their permissions every few year. The keys of those
>> > who don't respond could then be disabled, without affecting
>> > anything else; and, of course, easily be reenabled if needed,
>> > without much process either.
>>
>> Aye, that's the key concept behind adding an explicit "Dormant" status
>> for core developers - they're folks that are still trusted with core
>> commit privileges if they choose to exercise them, but while they're
>> not using their access, it's better to deactivate their credentials to
>> reduce the potential for compromise.
>>
>> We'd add a note to the developer guide that gave instructions on how
>> to request reactivation (likely just "Check the developer guide to
>> ensure you're up to speed with any changes since you were last active,
>> then past to python-committers requesting that your credentials be
>> reactivated").
>>
>
> Right, no one's role of having been a core dev will be wiped from history,
> they just won't have the core dev logo next to their bugs.python.org
> username in the issue tracker (which if they are so dormant to have not
> added their GitHub username then  they probably don't care about that
> anyway ;) . And flipping everything back on is a radio button and a word in
> bugs.python.org if their triage rights are removed and clicking on a
> button on a web page on GitHub if we clean up for dev access on the
> repository.
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>


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Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status (was: Missing In Action)

2018-06-18 Thread Jack Jansen 
I know that this is the case for me.

I wouldn’t _dream_ of committing anything (after 10 years or so) without first 
consulting with current core developers, etc. But formally being a Python core 
dev does give me status with my colleagues, students, children (well, one 
only), nephews and nieces, etc. and I have just enough vanity to kind of enjoy 
that. Just the other day a nephew took a selfie of the two of us and posted it 
to all friends, YES! :-)

That said: I would fully understand if my status was changed to “dormant core 
dev” or “retired core dev” and I wouldn’t have any problems with that.

Jack


> On  18-Jun-2018, at 21:07 , Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> 
> Hm, unless I misunderstood, MAL's
> 
> > Being a core developer of Python is a status
> 
> suggests that core devs might want to keep this status since it confers 
> "status" on their person (it looks good on a resume for sure). And I wouldn't 
> want to make it any harder for a 3rd party to verify someone's claim to this 
> status in their resume.
> 
> Marc-Andre, is that what you meant?
> 
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:59 AM Brett Cannon  > wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 06:43 Nick Coghlan  > wrote:
> On 18 June 2018 at 18:07, M.-A. Lemburg  > wrote:
> > Overall, I think that removing repo or bpo permissions should be
> > kept separate from the status itself. It would probably be wise
> > to send around reminders to all core devs who have access and
> > have not used their permissions every few year. The keys of those
> > who don't respond could then be disabled, without affecting
> > anything else; and, of course, easily be reenabled if needed,
> > without much process either.
> 
> Aye, that's the key concept behind adding an explicit "Dormant" status
> for core developers - they're folks that are still trusted with core
> commit privileges if they choose to exercise them, but while they're
> not using their access, it's better to deactivate their credentials to
> reduce the potential for compromise.
> 
> We'd add a note to the developer guide that gave instructions on how
> to request reactivation (likely just "Check the developer guide to
> ensure you're up to speed with any changes since you were last active,
> then past to python-committers requesting that your credentials be
> reactivated").
> 
> Right, no one's role of having been a core dev will be wiped from history, 
> they just won't have the core dev logo next to their bugs.python.org 
>  username in the issue tracker (which if they are so 
> dormant to have not added their GitHub username then  they probably don't 
> care about that anyway ;) . And flipping everything back on is a radio button 
> and a word in bugs.python.org  if their triage 
> rights are removed and clicking on a button on a web page on GitHub if we 
> clean up for dev access on the repository.
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido )
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Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status (was: Missing In Action)

2018-06-18 Thread Guido van Rossum 
I propose "emeritus core dev". It's a word that conveys *extra* status.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 12:24 PM Jack Jansen  wrote:

> I know that this is the case for me.
>
> I wouldn’t _dream_ of committing anything (after 10 years or so) without
> first consulting with current core developers, etc. But formally being a
> Python core dev does give me status with my colleagues, students, children
> (well, one only), nephews and nieces, etc. and I have just enough vanity to
> kind of enjoy that. Just the other day a nephew took a selfie of the two of
> us and posted it to all friends, YES! :-)
>
> That said: I would fully understand if my status was changed to “dormant
> core dev” or “retired core dev” and I wouldn’t have any problems with that.
>
> Jack
>
>
> On  18-Jun-2018, at 21:07 , Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
> Hm, unless I misunderstood, MAL's
>
> > Being a core developer of Python is a status
>
> suggests that core devs might want to keep this status since it confers
> "status" on their person (it looks good on a resume for sure). And I
> wouldn't want to make it any harder for a 3rd party to verify someone's
> claim to this status in their resume.
>
> Marc-Andre, is that what you meant?
>
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:59 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 06:43 Nick Coghlan  wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 June 2018 at 18:07, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>>> > Overall, I think that removing repo or bpo permissions should be
>>> > kept separate from the status itself. It would probably be wise
>>> > to send around reminders to all core devs who have access and
>>> > have not used their permissions every few year. The keys of those
>>> > who don't respond could then be disabled, without affecting
>>> > anything else; and, of course, easily be reenabled if needed,
>>> > without much process either.
>>>
>>> Aye, that's the key concept behind adding an explicit "Dormant" status
>>> for core developers - they're folks that are still trusted with core
>>> commit privileges if they choose to exercise them, but while they're
>>> not using their access, it's better to deactivate their credentials to
>>> reduce the potential for compromise.
>>>
>>> We'd add a note to the developer guide that gave instructions on how
>>> to request reactivation (likely just "Check the developer guide to
>>> ensure you're up to speed with any changes since you were last active,
>>> then past to python-committers requesting that your credentials be
>>> reactivated").
>>>
>>
>> Right, no one's role of having been a core dev will be wiped from
>> history, they just won't have the core dev logo next to their
>> bugs.python.org username in the issue tracker (which if they are so
>> dormant to have not added their GitHub username then  they probably don't
>> care about that anyway ;) . And flipping everything back on is a radio
>> button and a word in bugs.python.org if their triage rights are removed
>> and clicking on a button on a web page on GitHub if we clean up for dev
>> access on the repository.
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list
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>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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>
>
> --
>
> Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack
>
> If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman
>
>
>
>

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Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status

2018-06-18 Thread M.-A. Lemburg 
On 18.06.2018 21:07, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Hm, unless I misunderstood, MAL's
> 
>> Being a core developer of Python is a status
> 
> suggests that core devs might want to keep this status since it confers
> "status" on their person (it looks good on a resume for sure). And I
> wouldn't want to make it any harder for a 3rd party to verify someone's
> claim to this status in their resume.
> 
> Marc-Andre, is that what you meant?

I guess I wasn't clear, sorry.

Perhaps the better term is "title" rather than "status". My
understanding is that you become core developer and essentially
keep this title forever.

Whether you actually have your keys in the repo to push a PR
or not is a different story and not really related to the "title"
you earned.

Listing the core developers somewhere on an official page
would help with the verification you are referring to. At
the moment, we don't seem to have this. It does make a difference
on CVs and it's one of the few things we can give back to people
when contributing code and time to Python.

Hope that's a little clearer.

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...   http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...   http://zope.egenix.com/


::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::

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D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
   Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
   http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
  http://www.malemburg.com/


> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:59 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 06:43 Nick Coghlan  wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 June 2018 at 18:07, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
 Overall, I think that removing repo or bpo permissions should be
 kept separate from the status itself. It would probably be wise
 to send around reminders to all core devs who have access and
 have not used their permissions every few year. The keys of those
 who don't respond could then be disabled, without affecting
 anything else; and, of course, easily be reenabled if needed,
 without much process either.
>>>
>>> Aye, that's the key concept behind adding an explicit "Dormant" status
>>> for core developers - they're folks that are still trusted with core
>>> commit privileges if they choose to exercise them, but while they're
>>> not using their access, it's better to deactivate their credentials to
>>> reduce the potential for compromise.
>>>
>>> We'd add a note to the developer guide that gave instructions on how
>>> to request reactivation (likely just "Check the developer guide to
>>> ensure you're up to speed with any changes since you were last active,
>>> then past to python-committers requesting that your credentials be
>>> reactivated").
>>>
>>
>> Right, no one's role of having been a core dev will be wiped from history,
>> they just won't have the core dev logo next to their bugs.python.org
>> username in the issue tracker (which if they are so dormant to have not
>> added their GitHub username then  they probably don't care about that
>> anyway ;) . And flipping everything back on is a radio button and a word in
>> bugs.python.org if their triage rights are removed and clicking on a
>> button on a web page on GitHub if we clean up for dev access on the
>> repository.
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> 
> 

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Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status

2018-06-18 Thread Terry Reedy 

On 6/18/2018 3:24 PM, Jack Jansen wrote:

I know that this is the case for me.

I wouldn’t _dream_ of committing anything (after 10 years or so) without 
first consulting with current core developers, etc.


We would, of course, help you get back up to speed with the current 
workflow, if you wished.  You could even start by reviewing a few PRs 
before merging one yourself.


tjr


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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer

2018-06-18 Thread Terry Reedy 

On 6/18/2018 2:37 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:



On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 11:17 Antoine Pitrou > wrote:



Le 14/06/2018 à 04:30, Terry Reedy a écrit :
 > On 6/13/2018 7:03 PM, Carol Willing wrote:
 >> +1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is
 >> reasonable to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or
after 3
 >> months of coaching.
 >>
 >> I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active
on the
 >> bug tracker to also be promoted to a core developer.
 >
 > A bit off topic, but I would too, as she has been extremely
helpful with
 > IDLE.

It's very nice that we're getting new active contributors.
OTOH if Cheryl is mostly active on the bug tracker, does she need commit
rights in order to participate properly?


On the tracker, ordinary commit rights add the little symbol after your 
name and add your name to the drop down lists for Assigned and Nosy. 
(The latter, by the way, would be a reason to de-activate people 
inactive after several years.)



  Or did she also review PRs or submit some of her own?


In the last year, she has submitted roughly 70 PRs, about half for IDLE, 
and perhaps 2/3 have been merged.  I still need to review her remaining 
IDLE PRs.  The last few I merged with little or no changed.  She has 
done some reviews, especially when asked, but obviously prefers writing.


On Github, the main effects of commits rights are addition to the list 
of possible reviewers, more weight to reviews (as far as github is 
concerned), and the possibility of pushing changes to both the PR branch 
and cpython.


Cheryl is actually the 6th most active contributor by commits over the 
past year: 
https://github.com/python/cpython/graphs/contributors?from=2017-06-18&to=2018-06-18&type=c 
(IOW only Victor, you, Yury, Terry, and Ned have more commits since 
2017-06-18).



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Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status

2018-06-18 Thread Paul Moore 
On 18 June 2018 at 20:41, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> On 18.06.2018 21:07, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> Hm, unless I misunderstood, MAL's
>>
>>> Being a core developer of Python is a status
>>
>> suggests that core devs might want to keep this status since it confers
>> "status" on their person (it looks good on a resume for sure). And I
>> wouldn't want to make it any harder for a 3rd party to verify someone's
>> claim to this status in their resume.
>>
>> Marc-Andre, is that what you meant?
>
> I guess I wasn't clear, sorry.
>
> Perhaps the better term is "title" rather than "status". My
> understanding is that you become core developer and essentially
> keep this title forever.
>
> Whether you actually have your keys in the repo to push a PR
> or not is a different story and not really related to the "title"
> you earned.
>
> Listing the core developers somewhere on an official page
> would help with the verification you are referring to. At
> the moment, we don't seem to have this. It does make a difference
> on CVs and it's one of the few things we can give back to people
> when contributing code and time to Python.

Just to add my thoughts here. I agree that "being a Python core
developer" is something people can be proud of (I know I am!), as well
as being good to put on a CV. It would be a shame to devalue that
pride by saying in effect that you're no longer a "real" core
developer if you don't keep contributing.

So I'd very much like to distinguish the idea of "being a core
developer" from the administrative management of commit privileges.
The respect and gratitude of our peers is one of the few things it's
possible to get as a reward for open source contributions - let's be
generous with that (and with openly acknowledging it).

Paul
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Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status

2018-06-18 Thread Chris Jerdonek 
What will be the threshold of activity? For example, if one hasn’t been
committing due to time but occasionally comments on or opens b.p.o. issues
or reviews pull requests, etc, would that mean the logo disappears? There
is value in having the logo show up when commenting.

—Chris

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:52 PM Paul Moore  wrote:

> On 18 June 2018 at 20:41, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> > On 18.06.2018 21:07, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> >> Hm, unless I misunderstood, MAL's
> >>
> >>> Being a core developer of Python is a status
> >>
> >> suggests that core devs might want to keep this status since it confers
> >> "status" on their person (it looks good on a resume for sure). And I
> >> wouldn't want to make it any harder for a 3rd party to verify someone's
> >> claim to this status in their resume.
> >>
> >> Marc-Andre, is that what you meant?
> >
> > I guess I wasn't clear, sorry.
> >
> > Perhaps the better term is "title" rather than "status". My
> > understanding is that you become core developer and essentially
> > keep this title forever.
> >
> > Whether you actually have your keys in the repo to push a PR
> > or not is a different story and not really related to the "title"
> > you earned.
> >
> > Listing the core developers somewhere on an official page
> > would help with the verification you are referring to. At
> > the moment, we don't seem to have this. It does make a difference
> > on CVs and it's one of the few things we can give back to people
> > when contributing code and time to Python.
>
> Just to add my thoughts here. I agree that "being a Python core
> developer" is something people can be proud of (I know I am!), as well
> as being good to put on a CV. It would be a shame to devalue that
> pride by saying in effect that you're no longer a "real" core
> developer if you don't keep contributing.
>
> So I'd very much like to distinguish the idea of "being a core
> developer" from the administrative management of commit privileges.
> The respect and gratitude of our peers is one of the few things it's
> possible to get as a reward for open source contributions - let's be
> generous with that (and with openly acknowledging it).
>
> Paul
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Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status

2018-06-18 Thread Guido van Rossum 
I'd do it as follows. This basically makes withdrawal voluntary unless they
don't respond at all.

1. Make a list of people who've not shown any sign of activity (on the
b.p.o. or GitHub, as reviewer or committer) for at least one year.
2. Email all of them, asking if they still want to be a core dev. Choices
could include
  a. Yes
  b. Keep the logo and b.p.o. access but disable GitHub key
  c. Drop everything
3. If someone doesn't respond despite repeated attempts (maybe using
different email addresses or social media) then after 4 weeks assume they
meant to answer (c). But if they write back later they can be restored
according to their preference (a, b, c), no questions asked.

If we currently have a list of core devs we should by default change
people's status to emeritus core dev when they choose (c). They may also
choose to be removed from such a list. But I don't know if we have a list.


On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:21 PM Chris Jerdonek 
wrote:

> What will be the threshold of activity? For example, if one hasn’t been
> committing due to time but occasionally comments on or opens b.p.o. issues
> or reviews pull requests, etc, would that mean the logo disappears? There
> is value in having the logo show up when commenting.
>
> —Chris
>
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:52 PM Paul Moore  wrote:
>
>> On 18 June 2018 at 20:41, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> > On 18.06.2018 21:07, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> >> Hm, unless I misunderstood, MAL's
>> >>
>> >>> Being a core developer of Python is a status
>> >>
>> >> suggests that core devs might want to keep this status since it confers
>> >> "status" on their person (it looks good on a resume for sure). And I
>> >> wouldn't want to make it any harder for a 3rd party to verify someone's
>> >> claim to this status in their resume.
>> >>
>> >> Marc-Andre, is that what you meant?
>> >
>> > I guess I wasn't clear, sorry.
>> >
>> > Perhaps the better term is "title" rather than "status". My
>> > understanding is that you become core developer and essentially
>> > keep this title forever.
>> >
>> > Whether you actually have your keys in the repo to push a PR
>> > or not is a different story and not really related to the "title"
>> > you earned.
>> >
>> > Listing the core developers somewhere on an official page
>> > would help with the verification you are referring to. At
>> > the moment, we don't seem to have this. It does make a difference
>> > on CVs and it's one of the few things we can give back to people
>> > when contributing code and time to Python.
>>
>> Just to add my thoughts here. I agree that "being a Python core
>> developer" is something people can be proud of (I know I am!), as well
>> as being good to put on a CV. It would be a shame to devalue that
>> pride by saying in effect that you're no longer a "real" core
>> developer if you don't keep contributing.
>>
>> So I'd very much like to distinguish the idea of "being a core
>> developer" from the administrative management of commit privileges.
>> The respect and gratitude of our peers is one of the few things it's
>> possible to get as a reward for open source contributions - let's be
>> generous with that (and with openly acknowledging it).
>>
>> Paul
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list
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>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
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Re: [python-committers] Changing commiter status

2018-06-18 Thread Tal Einat 
On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 3:54 AM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
> If we currently have a list of core devs we should by default change people's 
> status to emeritus core dev when they choose (c). They may also choose to be 
> removed from such a list. But I don't know if we have a list.

We have at least one list on the developers' guide:
https://devguide.python.org/developers/

It's more of a log of permissions granted and dropped. It also has a
section titled "Permissions Dropped after Loss of Contact", currently
with a single entry.

- Tal Einat
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