[python-committers] Deprecation policy reminder

2021-09-02 Thread Łukasz Langa 
Hi there,
I noticed some deprecation activity this week. Nice! I'd just like to remind 
everyone that we have a policy for that described in PEP 387 
  It's a very short PEP so I 
recommend you read it in its entirety. The important piece I want to highlight 
is that we cannot deprecate a feature in one release and remove it in the next 
one. We need at least two releases with the warning.

Relevant quotes:

> Python's yearly release process (PEP 602 
> ) means that the deprecation period 
> must last at least two years.

and:

> Wait for the warning to appear in at least two minor Python versions of the 
> same major version, or one minor version in an older major version (e.g. for 
> a warning in Python 3.10, you either wait until at least Python 3.12 or 
> Python 4.0 to make the change). It's fine to wait more than two releases.

Since this PEP is easy to miss, I linked it to the docs of DeprecationWarning 
in GH-28123 .

Cheers,
Ł


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[python-committers] Re: Deprecation policy reminder

2021-09-02 Thread Guido van Rossum 
Are there any exceptions? In the discussion about PyCode_New we've come to
the conclusion that keeping it and PyCode_NewWithPosArgs around is going to
be impossible to support, and we've found the few users of that API
(Cython) supportive of changing it incompatibly.

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 3:56 AM Łukasz Langa  wrote:

> Hi there,
> I noticed some deprecation activity this week. Nice! I'd just like to
> remind everyone that we have a policy for that described in PEP 387
>   It's a very short PEP so I
> recommend you read it in its entirety. The important piece I want to
> highlight is that we cannot deprecate a feature in one release and remove
> it in the next one. We need at least two releases with the warning.
>
> Relevant quotes:
>
> Python's yearly release process (PEP 602
> ) means that the deprecation
> period must last at least two years.
>
>
> and:
>
> Wait for the warning to appear in at least two minor Python versions of
> the same major version, or one minor version in an older major version
> (e.g. for a warning in Python 3.10, you either wait until at least Python
> 3.12 or Python 4.0 to make the change). It's fine to wait more than two
> releases.
>
>
> Since this PEP is easy to miss, I linked it to the docs of
> DeprecationWarning in GH-28123
> .
>
> Cheers,
> Ł
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- [email protected]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/WZQIL3GLGO7NYC4XHBVFBHUNUJV6NWLE/
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*

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[python-committers] Re: Deprecation policy reminder

2021-09-02 Thread Ammar Askar 
Hey Guido,

The PEP notes that the steering council can grant exceptions to the policy
in some cases. So maybe it's time to loop them in and ask them about the
PyCode_New proposal.

Ammar Askar

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021, 11:03 AM Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> Are there any exceptions? In the discussion about PyCode_New we've come to
> the conclusion that keeping it and PyCode_NewWithPosArgs around is going to
> be impossible to support, and we've found the few users of that API
> (Cython) supportive of changing it incompatibly.
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 3:56 AM Łukasz Langa  wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>> I noticed some deprecation activity this week. Nice! I'd just like to
>> remind everyone that we have a policy for that described in PEP 387
>>   It's a very short PEP so I
>> recommend you read it in its entirety. The important piece I want to
>> highlight is that we cannot deprecate a feature in one release and remove
>> it in the next one. We need at least two releases with the warning.
>>
>> Relevant quotes:
>>
>> Python's yearly release process (PEP 602
>> ) means that the deprecation
>> period must last at least two years.
>>
>>
>> and:
>>
>> Wait for the warning to appear in at least two minor Python versions of
>> the same major version, or one minor version in an older major version
>> (e.g. for a warning in Python 3.10, you either wait until at least Python
>> 3.12 or Python 4.0 to make the change). It's fine to wait more than two
>> releases.
>>
>>
>> Since this PEP is easy to miss, I linked it to the docs of
>> DeprecationWarning in GH-28123
>> .
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ł
>> ___
>> python-committers mailing list -- [email protected]
>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
>> Message archived at
>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/WZQIL3GLGO7NYC4XHBVFBHUNUJV6NWLE/
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
> 
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[python-committers] Re: Deprecation policy reminder

2021-09-02 Thread Barry Warsaw 
PEP 387 says:

The steering council may grant exceptions to this policy. In particular, 
they may shorten the
required deprecation period for a feature. Exceptions are only granted for 
extreme situations
such as dangerously broken or insecure features or features no one could 
reasonably be depending
on (e.g., support for completely obsolete platforms).

I’m not sure I agree that these are the only reasons to grant an exception, but 
I guess we’ll have to discuss that.  Please do formally ask the SC for an 
exception.

Cheers,
-Barry

> On Sep 2, 2021, at 08:02, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> 
> Are there any exceptions? In the discussion about PyCode_New we've come to 
> the conclusion that keeping it and PyCode_NewWithPosArgs around is going to 
> be impossible to support, and we've found the few users of that API (Cython) 
> supportive of changing it incompatibly.
> 
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 3:56 AM Łukasz Langa  wrote:
> Hi there,
> I noticed some deprecation activity this week. Nice! I'd just like to remind 
> everyone that we have a policy for that described in PEP 387  It's a very 
> short PEP so I recommend you read it in its entirety. The important piece I 
> want to highlight is that we cannot deprecate a feature in one release and 
> remove it in the next one. We need at least two releases with the warning.
> 
> Relevant quotes:
> 
>> Python's yearly release process (PEP 602) means that the deprecation period 
>> must last at least two years.
> 
> and:
> 
>> Wait for the warning to appear in at least two minor Python versions of the 
>> same major version, or one minor version in an older major version (e.g. for 
>> a warning in Python 3.10, you either wait until at least Python 3.12 or 
>> Python 4.0 to make the change). It's fine to wait more than two releases.
> 
> Since this PEP is easy to miss, I linked it to the docs of DeprecationWarning 
> in GH-28123.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ł
> ___
> python-committers mailing list -- [email protected]
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> 
> 
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> Pronouns: he/him (why is my pronoun here?)
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[python-committers] Re: Deprecation policy reminder

2021-09-02 Thread Guido van Rossum 
https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues/75

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 8:21 AM Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> PEP 387 says:
>
> The steering council may grant exceptions to this policy. In
> particular, they may shorten the
> required deprecation period for a feature. Exceptions are only granted
> for extreme situations
> such as dangerously broken or insecure features or features no one
> could reasonably be depending
> on (e.g., support for completely obsolete platforms).
>
> I’m not sure I agree that these are the only reasons to grant an
> exception, but I guess we’ll have to discuss that.  Please do formally ask
> the SC for an exception.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
> > On Sep 2, 2021, at 08:02, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> >
> > Are there any exceptions? In the discussion about PyCode_New we've come
> to the conclusion that keeping it and PyCode_NewWithPosArgs around is going
> to be impossible to support, and we've found the few users of that API
> (Cython) supportive of changing it incompatibly.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 3:56 AM Łukasz Langa  wrote:
> > Hi there,
> > I noticed some deprecation activity this week. Nice! I'd just like to
> remind everyone that we have a policy for that described in PEP 387  It's a
> very short PEP so I recommend you read it in its entirety. The important
> piece I want to highlight is that we cannot deprecate a feature in one
> release and remove it in the next one. We need at least two releases with
> the warning.
> >
> > Relevant quotes:
> >
> >> Python's yearly release process (PEP 602) means that the deprecation
> period must last at least two years.
> >
> > and:
> >
> >> Wait for the warning to appear in at least two minor Python versions of
> the same major version, or one minor version in an older major version
> (e.g. for a warning in Python 3.10, you either wait until at least Python
> 3.12 or Python 4.0 to make the change). It's fine to wait more than two
> releases.
> >
> > Since this PEP is easy to miss, I linked it to the docs of
> DeprecationWarning in GH-28123.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ł
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list -- [email protected]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> > Message archived at
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> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >
> >
> > --
> > --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> > Pronouns: he/him (why is my pronoun here?)
> > ___
> > python-committers mailing list -- [email protected]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-committers.python.org/
> > Message archived at
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> > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*

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