Re: [Python-Dev] Split Misc/NEWS into individual files
2017-02-22 23:53 GMT+01:00 Serhiy Storchaka : > Some changes can be related to a couple of modules. I suggest to repeat either repeat the change in each module section, or put the change in a general section. The tool should support a list of modules. Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Report on Python vulnerabilities
Hi, I created a tool to generate a report on Python vulnerabilities: http://python-security.readthedocs.io/vulnerabilities.html I collected data of 41 vulnerabilities since 2007 (first Python CVE: CVE-2007-4965). If you would like to add data of a new vulnerability, enhance the report, ... : see the GitHub project. https://github.com/haypo/python-security The main data file is vulnerabilities.yml (YAML). I also filled manually the python_releases.txt: file: list of all release dates from Python 2.5.0 to Python 3.6.0. The tool compute the first Python release in each branch which includes the fix from a list of commits. The tool should help to track if vulnerabilities are fixed in all supported Python versions (branches accepting security fixes). I also started to collect some notes about Python security in general, evolution of th ssl module, etc. in the same documentation. Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Split Misc/NEWS into individual files
On 2/22/2017 5:53 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: On 22.02.17 22:59, Victor Stinner wrote: While we are talking about changing things... I would propose to require to specify a module name if a change is in the Library section, and then maybe even group changes per module. Some changes can be related to a couple of modules. There should be a 'General' categories for changes not limited to modules within a grouping (see previous message). Many of your multi-module patches would fit in 'General'. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Split Misc/NEWS into individual files
On 2/22/2017 3:59 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: 2017-02-22 17:42 GMT+01:00 Barry Warsaw : Our release notes have different sections: * Core and Builtins * Extension Modules * Library * IDLE * Windows * C API * Documentation * Build * Tools/Demos * Tests (others?) While we are talking about changing things... I would propose to require to specify a module name if a change is in the Library section, and then maybe even group changes per module. +1 I would like tkinter changes grouped together. There have been similar requests to more finely divide tracker issues. Since there are about 400 modules, an alternative would be to group by package or doc chapter. The 30 chapters after the 5 built-in chapters are a much more manageable number for both the tracker and NEWS. Having IDLE issues (which groups 60 related modules) split out tremendously helps IDLE users. But it need not be the only such grouping. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Split Misc/NEWS into individual files
On 22.02.17 22:59, Victor Stinner wrote: While we are talking about changing things... I would propose to require to specify a module name if a change is in the Library section, and then maybe even group changes per module. Some changes can be related to a couple of modules. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Split Misc/NEWS into individual files
On Feb 22, 2017, at 07:27, Victor Stinner wrote: > [...]My idea is not new, it's already discussed in the Python core-workflow: > https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/6 > > I'm opening a thread on python-dev because Misc/NEWS quickly became a > blocker issue with the Python new workflow. > > What do you think of the overall idea? I think we clearly need to do something about Misc/NEWS but this issue is already under discussion in the core-workflow working group and I think we shouldn't be moving it to python-dev until there is a final concrete proposal. I know it is high on Brett's list but I believe he's taking a few days of holiday right so he may not be able to respond immediately. Let's move this discussion over to the core-workflow mailing list. It can wait a few days. https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow -- Ned Deily n...@python.org -- [] ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Translated Python documentation
2017-02-22 19:04 GMT+01:00 Serhiy Storchaka : > What percent of lines is changed between bugfix releases? Feature releases? > > My largest apprehension is that the documentation can be outdated and > quickly become degraded if main contributors left it. If the original text (english) changes, untranslated text is displayed, not outdated text. The french translation uses gettext. I don't know how other translations are implemented. Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Split Misc/NEWS into individual files
2017-02-22 17:42 GMT+01:00 Barry Warsaw : > Our release notes have different sections: > > * Core and Builtins > * Extension Modules > * Library > * Windows > * C API > * Documentation > * Build > * Tools/Demos > * Tests > (others?) While we are talking about changing things... I would propose to require to specify a module name if a change is in the Library section, and then maybe even group changes per module. Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Translated Python documentation
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > My largest apprehension is that the documentation can be outdated and > quickly become degraded if main contributors left it. This is why we focus in the Tutorial only, but also: a) The tutorial is mostly the "entry point" to Python's doc, so being it in Spanish for Spanish speakers lowers the barrier a lot b) At some point you need to understand English docs, so translating the library reference should not be that important Regards, -- .Facundo Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/ PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/ Twitter: @facundobatista ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Split Misc/NEWS into individual files
Excerpts from Barry Warsaw's message of 2017-02-22 11:42:57 -0500: > On Feb 22, 2017, at 01:27 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: > > >OpenStack happily fixed this issue one or two years ago with "reno": > >https://pypi.python.org/pypi/reno > > reno looks interesting but there is at least one thing I think would need > changing for us. Aside: I'm not super psyched about its requiring YAML files > for its input. Their structure can be fairly arcane for drive-by > contributors, but I suppose with good documentation and a CI gate, we can live > with that. > > I'm also not thrilled with having to learn yet another command line tool to > submit changes to Python. > > The main dissonance for us is I think the sections that reno supports > > https://docs.openstack.org/developer/reno/usage.html > > Our release notes have different sections: > > * Core and Builtins > * Extension Modules > * Library > * Windows > * C API > * Documentation > * Build > * Tools/Demos > * Tests > (others?) > > I don't know if those are configurable in reno or it would require a fork, but > I'd like to preserve that organizational structure. If reno can also help > wrap long lines, enforce/encourage bpo-* mentions, and clean up whitespace, > then I'm for trying it out. > > -Barry FWIW, I've been planning to work on a demonstration patch using reno for cpython so we can identify feature gaps like this. I have permission to work on this as part of my day job, to make reno suitable for both communities. I'm at a conference this week, but will try to put something together after I get back to work, and definitely before the language summit at PyCon. We have a patch up for review to support configuring the sections, including the keys within the input file and the titles in the output, so that should take care of that gap. The use of lists within each section is also something I think we could either make smart or explicitly configurable, and that would simplify the file format to just section keys and an RST blob. The "report" command assembles the RST embedded in the YAML and then passes it through docutils to produce text output. In the process, it does wrap lines, standardize bullets for lists, etc. For an example of the output, you can look at the release announcement for nova from earlier today [1]. The content of that email up to the git log output at the end was produced by reno based on the input files in [2]. Doug [1] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/release-announce/2017-February/000784.html [2] http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tree/releasenotes/notes ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Translated Python documentation
On 22.02.17 18:15, Victor Stinner wrote: 2017-02-22 16:40 GMT+01:00 Antoine Pitrou : As long as you are asking for "moral" support and not actually vouching for the accuracy of third-party translations, then +1 from me. The main complain about these translations is the accuracy. My bet is that making these translations "official" and more visible (at docs.python.org) would make them more popular, and so indirectly help to recruit new contributors. Slowly, the number of translated pages should increase, but the overall translation quality should also increase. That's how free software are developed, no? :-) What percent of lines is changed between bugfix releases? Feature releases? My largest apprehension is that the documentation can be outdated and quickly become degraded if main contributors left it. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Translated Python documentation
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: > There are a least 3 groups of people who are translating the Python > documentation in their mother language (french, japanese, spanish). We translated (and even printed/published) the Tutorial (we're currently maintaining the Py2 and Py3 branches). But only the tutorial, that is a smaller and steadier doc. > For me, the most impotant point would be to give access to the > translated documentation from docs.python.org. For example, have a > dropdown list with available languages. To clarify: you're proposing to *serve* the translated files from d.p.o? Or just a link to where those are served now? Thanks! -- .Facundo Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/ PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/ Twitter: @facundobatista ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Split Misc/NEWS into individual files
On Feb 22, 2017, at 01:27 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: >OpenStack happily fixed this issue one or two years ago with "reno": >https://pypi.python.org/pypi/reno reno looks interesting but there is at least one thing I think would need changing for us. Aside: I'm not super psyched about its requiring YAML files for its input. Their structure can be fairly arcane for drive-by contributors, but I suppose with good documentation and a CI gate, we can live with that. I'm also not thrilled with having to learn yet another command line tool to submit changes to Python. The main dissonance for us is I think the sections that reno supports https://docs.openstack.org/developer/reno/usage.html Our release notes have different sections: * Core and Builtins * Extension Modules * Library * Windows * C API * Documentation * Build * Tools/Demos * Tests (others?) I don't know if those are configurable in reno or it would require a fork, but I'd like to preserve that organizational structure. If reno can also help wrap long lines, enforce/encourage bpo-* mentions, and clean up whitespace, then I'm for trying it out. -Barry ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Split Misc/NEWS into individual files
On 2/22/17 7:27 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: OpenStack happily fixed this issue one or two years ago with "reno": https://pypi.python.org/pypi/reno It's a simple tool building a changelog from a list of files: each file describe a change of a commit. The filename is the commit identifier. Simple, isn't it? I've read through the reno design document, and I think it would work for Python: https://docs.openstack.org/developer/reno/design.html What do you think of the overall idea? I'm for it. I'd be interested in hearing what current and former release managers say. Eric. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Translated Python documentation
2017-02-22 16:40 GMT+01:00 Antoine Pitrou : > As long as you are asking for "moral" support and not actually > vouching for the accuracy of third-party translations, then +1 from me. The main complain about these translations is the accuracy. My bet is that making these translations "official" and more visible (at docs.python.org) would make them more popular, and so indirectly help to recruit new contributors. Slowly, the number of translated pages should increase, but the overall translation quality should also increase. That's how free software are developed, no? :-) Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Translated Python documentation
Hi Victor, On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 13:10:17 +0100 Victor Stinner wrote: > > IMHO a reference in this domain is PHP: PHP documentation is > translated to at least 10 languages. See for example the "Change > language: [...]" list at: > >http://php.net/echo > > I'm not asking you to take any technical decision here, I'm just > asking for an official general "support" of translated documentation. As long as you are asking for "moral" support and not actually vouching for the accuracy of third-party translations, then +1 from me. à bientôt Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Translated Python documentation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/22/2017 07:10 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a member of the french #python-fr IRC channel on Freenode: it's > common to meet people who don't speak english and so are unable to > read the Python official documentation. Python wants to be widely > available, for all users, in any language: that's also why Python 3 > now allows any non-ASCII identifiers: > https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3131/#rationale > > There are a least 3 groups of people who are translating the Python > documentation in their mother language (french, japanese, spanish). > They tried to make it more official, but their attempt didn't go far > yet. I'm writing this email to propose to officially support > translated versions of the documentation. > > For me, the most impotant point would be to give access to the > translated documentation from docs.python.org. For example, have a > dropdown list with available languages. > > IMHO a reference in this domain is PHP: PHP documentation is > translated to at least 10 languages. See for example the "Change > language: [...]" list at: > > http://php.net/echo > > I'm not asking you to take any technical decision here, I'm just > asking for an official general "support" of translated documentation. +1 for the idea. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJYrawEAAoJEPKpaDSJE9HYevwP/0KsRu1KNkBGFVffA8WNBDqT khZta8AogUnvIkubNxDWvtMgo+UDgXdpW0D0/uCI5ON8O6TVeAQp8JB5giZkKt6e VSoXjPaD4sJJRjWCFj+z33DCu/HlVE5+qt60cRQ6kwWWKWm6Aoh+yiu1g0CDQIN0 miOmc+6rZWTptYUDYX3j/gq1W/XxiaEDIJTf9D8GUQ7YZA6AyTkzUm1o9OY8PJdg lSsTxkjuriQPLJq6IVXMZxOUPKgU/O9HLL9r3XfRqA/sIle6pz6z6qKIQOHj246E lKiSXwm2Gik+XrIk0YfIG+ZezlWJuRyyA+7wksxQmX/Azl85iQ/Nb5/zwVMTfpF1 NIT0++bpefM5X/Y7CLusupNIQ90k5dSMjX9uPOBoK/ZIJ7I6QglBVxr97CHx1FCn lJ4brOkBnGCtz9mJ50FgM4YqYuUUWjw8mZxpjv5URl8ouPdZnhmuWmiRJLgezmbV n0uqjr9XvEdXEYidRzL39LAWcERJIj1CfyyCgDISYw8eaZsrn29lrk0F8x17XAIP Z0iIF4cYg0Z1oXqmWelzljDyo66GIMybof3R2pHKCiPlfZeE3b+AwgU2eyI+6lnj iVfQi5ok4XuYMydmJhjfWbmz8xb0jkqQ7un3TRb6w8MFOS1WxxYAsVJnesA6Jk3c g4leycwmSg9dTQ/TSRZj =6/rU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Split Misc/NEWS into individual files
Hi, As an user, I like Misc/NEWS changelog. I like reading https://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/changelog.html#changelog after a minor Python release to see all bugfixes. As a developer, I deeply hate this file :-) It's very painful to: * find the latest Python version in this giant file * find the right section * ... handle merge conflicts!!! * understand how this thing works on multiple Python versions The last point was always a mystery for me. If we make a change in Python 3.5.3, merge it into the 3.6 branch: should we document the change in 3.5.3 and 3.6.0 changelog? What if 3.6.0 is released *before* 3.5.3? What if 3.6.0 is released *after* 3.5.3? IMHO developers should not have to think about the release date when writing a changelog, we need a tool doing that for us. OpenStack happily fixed this issue one or two years ago with "reno": https://pypi.python.org/pypi/reno It's a simple tool building a changelog from a list of files: each file describe a change of a commit. The filename is the commit identifier. Simple, isn't it? OpenStack has something like 100x more commits than CPython (the overall OpenStack project). It's just a giant project and so many people and pull requests which can remain open for months. Very obvious win of individual files: no more merge conflict in two concurrent changes, since each commit adds its own file. My idea is not new, it's already discussed in the Python core-workflow: https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/6 I'm opening a thread on python-dev because Misc/NEWS quickly became a blocker issue with the Python new workflow. What do you think of the overall idea? Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Translated Python documentation
Hi, I'm a member of the french #python-fr IRC channel on Freenode: it's common to meet people who don't speak english and so are unable to read the Python official documentation. Python wants to be widely available, for all users, in any language: that's also why Python 3 now allows any non-ASCII identifiers: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3131/#rationale There are a least 3 groups of people who are translating the Python documentation in their mother language (french, japanese, spanish). They tried to make it more official, but their attempt didn't go far yet. I'm writing this email to propose to officially support translated versions of the documentation. For me, the most impotant point would be to give access to the translated documentation from docs.python.org. For example, have a dropdown list with available languages. IMHO a reference in this domain is PHP: PHP documentation is translated to at least 10 languages. See for example the "Change language: [...]" list at: http://php.net/echo I'm not asking you to take any technical decision here, I'm just asking for an official general "support" of translated documentation. References to translated documentations: Transiflex project: https://www.transifex.com/python-doc/ Français (French, FR): doc: https://www.afpy.org/doc/python/ source: https://github.com/AFPy/python_doc_fr mailing list: http://lists.afpy.org/mailman/listinfo/traductions Japanese (JP): doc: http://docs.python.jp/3/ source: https://github.com/python-doc-ja/python-doc-ja Spanish: doc: http://docs.python.org.ar/tutorial/3/index.html Previous discussions: [Python-ideas] Cross link documentation translations (January, 2016): https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2016-January/038010.html [Python-ideas] https://docs.python.org/fr/ ? (March 2016) https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2016-March/038879.html Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
