[Python-Dev] Re: Timeline for 3.5.8

[Larry Hastings]

3.5.8 final is kind of in limbo right now.  I had planned to release it 
early next week, however a regression has come up, tracked here:


   https://bugs.python.org/issue38216

At the moment this is a Release Blocker for 3.5.8, and therefore I can't 
release it.  Either we have to check in a fix, or we need to downgrade 
the issue from Release Blocker.


As I mention on the issue, depending on the complexity of the fix for 
this issue (if we go that route) I may do another rc before final.



In a holding pattern,


//arry/


On 9/1/19 11:53 AM, Larry Hastings wrote:



Howdy howdy.  Here's what I'm thinking for the next release of 3.5.  
This week I'm going to merge / reject all the outstanding PRs for 3.5, 
then cut rc1 at the Python Core Dev sprints next week, either Monday 
(2019/9/9) or Tuesday (2019/9/10).  This isn't a lot of notice, but 
things have slowed down a lot for 3.5, so I suspect nobody's going to 
be inconvenienced or bothered by the short notice.


However!  If you /would/ be inconvenienced or bothered by the short 
notice--if you need more time to get a patch in for 3.5--just let me 
know and I can delay rc1.


Assuming no problems crop up in rc1, 3.5.8 final will be released two 
weeks after 3.5.8 rc1.



Cheers,


//arry/

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[Python-Dev] Re: The Python 2 death march

[Brett Cannon]

Chris Barker wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 10:39 PM Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
> > I agree.  The thread title is a bit extreme.  There
> > will be a long
> > twilight.
> > Metaphorically that is correct, but at
> > the same time there are
> > things like https://pythonclock.org  which
> > 
> > is one person's very unofficial site.  It interprets and references
> > https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/#maintenance-releases
> > I can't see a way to contact the owner of that site (is it Guido??),

It is not Guido (and it isn't me either, but I do know who the owner is).
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[Python-Dev] Re: The Python 2 death march

[Brett Cannon]

Kyle Stanley wrote:
> Benjamin, what are you thoughts on usage of the "needs backport to 2.7"
> label? For most of the PRs I've reviewed I tend to avoid adding it myself,
> but I've seen it used periodically. It seems to be used rather infrequently
> (
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label%3A%22needs+backport+...),
> but I'm not entirely clear on when it should be used, particularly for
> documentation-related PRs.

It should be used where appropriate. ;)

It's a per-case thing where you have to balance backwards-compatibility with 
whatever you're changing. Plus you have to have someone doing the PR review who 
cares enough to deal with the (good) chance there will be a merge conflict in 
the backport.
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[Python-Dev] Re: May God bless and keep Python 2 ... far away from us!

[Paul Moore]

On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 17:34, Stephen J. Turnbull
 wrote:
>  > Generally, when people ask questions like this, I struggle,
>
> Yup.  But I think the above is a good first cut.

Agreed, it's a great summary of what "support stops" means. What I was
trying to say was more that I'm not quite sure where people asking the
question are coming from - they are clearly worried about the impact
there might be on them when support stops. In reality, though, I
suspect that what they are losing is less than they think it is, in
the sense that they are assuming they have things now that actually
they don't. For example, "if I find a bug in Python I can report it
and it will get fixed" - well, yes, maybe, but there's no guarantees
on timescale, as we're all volunteers, so is that any benefit?

I guess I'm more trying to tackle the question by clarifying that
"your worries are unfounded" rather than by actually directly
answering the question as it stands (because we seem to keep coming
round to the same question, which suggests to me there's something
deeper).

Paul
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[Python-Dev] May God bless and keep Python 2 ... far away from us!

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Paul Moore writes:
 > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 18:52, Chris Barker via Python-Dev
 >  wrote:
 > > it would be good to be clear what EXACTLY "support stops" means.

It means patches and PRs submitted after that date will almost
certainly be dropped on the floor (and definitely will be after
Benjamin tags the last release), any issues pending on that date will
be summarily closed, any Python 2 targets on the tracker will be
removed, any issues submitted regarding Python 2 anyway will be
triaged WONTFIXBECAUSEEOL, and people on python-dev and python-ideas
will tell you to go to python-list because Python 2 is off-topic
period.  Oh yeah, and any of the actions mentioned above might take a
while because Python 2 isn't, you know, "supported".

One thing that should be made clear is that "support stops" refers to
resources under the PSF rubric.  I'm sure there are plenty of people
who will support Python 2 for some wage less than $1,000,000/hr.

 > Generally, when people ask questions like this, I struggle,

Yup.  But I think the above is a good first cut.

P.S. "Us" in the subject means "those good folks who take
responsibility in one way or another for the maintenance and
improvement of Python under the auspices of the PSF."
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[Python-Dev] Re: The Python 2 death march

[Paul Moore]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 18:52, Chris Barker via Python-Dev
 wrote:
> it would be good to be clear what EXACTLY "support stops" means.

Generally, when people ask questions like this, I struggle, because
it's not altogether clear to me what they think they mean in the first
place by the "support" that is getting dropped. Python is entirely
volunteer supported, and no-one has any sort of formal agreement here,
so what exactly is stopping on such a precise date?

Personally, I will take 1 Jan 2020 as being the date on which I can
stop feeling guilty about not caring about Python 2, and the date from
which, if I merge a change to Python, I don't have to ask anyone
"should this be backported to 2.7" but can just ignore the
possibility. I doubt that clarifies anything for anyone, though :-)

Paul
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