[Python-Dev] Re: Should we try to get a complete draft of What's New by b1?

[Jack DeVries]

> If you look at the version picker on docs.python.org you will see that we
already have the docs for 3.10 and 3.11 available. I don't know if they are
updated per release right now or per commit.

I understand that they are available options. To clarify my suggestion, I
think that 3.11 should be updated on a per commit basis (continuous
deployment); including updating the what's new pages continuously. If that
is not done already, I'm curious if it is been looked into before, and
whether it might be possible to set things up like this?

I was originally thinking that 3.10 documentation should be deployed
continuously as well, but on further thought I realized that that would put
the beta releases out of sync with the documentation which obviously does
not make any sense. Maybe we could add a new tab to the version picker
called 3.10/HEAD or similar. Maybe there's another solution?

Either way, continuous deployment of documentation for 3.11 (or whatever
version cpython/HEAD is at any given time) seems like it should be the norm
if it isn't already. If that is already the case, I'm sorry for the noise!
I still think that continuous deployment of documentation on the head of
the beta or alpha release branches is worth considering, maybe with a
different label on docs.python.org like "cpython/3.10@latest" or similar.


On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 12:46 PM Brett Cannon  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 6:04 AM Jack DeVries 
> wrote:
>
>> On a broader note, how does the deployment pipeline for documentation
>> work? It seems to me that for branches that are in pre-release (3.10) or
>> active development (3.11), the documentation should be continuously
>> deployed, while deployment of changes to earlier documentation should
>> follow minor releases for those versions.
>>
>> Sorry this question is naive -- I don't know how it works currently.
>> Would it be possible to set something like this up?
>>
>
> If you look at the version picker on docs.python.org you will see that we
> already have the docs for 3.10 and 3.11 available. I don't know if they are
> updated per release right now or per commit.
>
> -Brett
>
>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 3:02 AM Serhiy Storchaka 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 11.08.21 21:35, Brett Cannon пише:
>>> > So my question is whether we want to push to be more diligent about
>>> > updating What's New by b1 so people can provide feedback during the
>>> > betas beyond just reporting breaking changes?
>>>
>>> I think that What's New should be updated as soon as possible,
>>> immediately after the addition of the feature. I started contributing to
>>> Python after reading What's New for one of early alphas of 3.3 (and the
>>> questioned feature was changed later). There were other examples, when
>>> features were advertised in alphas, but were changed after getting a
>>> feedback before betas.
>>>
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[Python-Dev] Re: Should we try to get a complete draft of What's New by b1?

[Jack DeVries]

On a broader note, how does the deployment pipeline for documentation work?
It seems to me that for branches that are in pre-release (3.10) or active
development (3.11), the documentation should be continuously deployed,
while deployment of changes to earlier documentation should follow minor
releases for those versions.

Sorry this question is naive -- I don't know how it works currently. Would
it be possible to set something like this up?

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 3:02 AM Serhiy Storchaka  wrote:

> 11.08.21 21:35, Brett Cannon пише:
> > So my question is whether we want to push to be more diligent about
> > updating What's New by b1 so people can provide feedback during the
> > betas beyond just reporting breaking changes?
>
> I think that What's New should be updated as soon as possible,
> immediately after the addition of the feature. I started contributing to
> Python after reading What's New for one of early alphas of 3.3 (and the
> questioned feature was changed later). There were other examples, when
> features were advertised in alphas, but were changed after getting a
> feedback before betas.
>
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[Python-Dev] Re: New __main__.rst

[Jack DeVries]

Huh, distributive pronouns... you learn something every day:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributive_pronoun

I think I'm just going to change the word "each" to "both", though,
because I don't like how "Each of these mechanisms is..." reads. Thank
you for the catch @MRAB.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 05:14:10PM +0100, MRAB wrote:
> On 2021-08-10 03:14, Jack DeVries wrote:
> > There have been a series of requests to enhance the current __main__.rst
> > document <https://docs.python.org/3/library/__main__.html>:
> > 
> > bpo-17359 <https://bugs.python.org/issue17359>
> > bpo-24632 <https://bugs.python.org/issue24632>
> > bpo-39452 <https://bugs.python.org/issue39452>
> > 
> > So, I rewrote it! I went ahead and hosted it on my website for you all to
> > easily take a look: 
> > https://jackdevries.com/pydoc__main__/library/__main__.html
> > 
> > Of course, you can go directly to the GitHub PR instead:
> > https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/26883
> > 
> > For reference, here is a link to the current document:
> > https://docs.python.org/3/library/__main__.html
> > 
> > This is a major change, so I'm thankful for anyone who can take the time to
> > review it. I am a new cpython contributor, so advice for how to push this 
> > ahead
> > is also welcome. For example, should I break this up into multiple PRs at 
> > this
> > point?
> > 
> Point of grammar: "Each of these mechanisms are related" should be "Each of
> these mechanisms is related". You might think that it's "are" because it
> follows "mechanisms", but it's "Each (something) is".
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[Python-Dev] New __main__.rst

[Jack DeVries]

There have been a series of requests to enhance the current __main__.rst
document :

bpo-17359 
bpo-24632 
bpo-39452 

So, I rewrote it! I went ahead and hosted it on my website for you all to
easily take a look: https://jackdevries.com/pydoc__main__/library/__main__.html

Of course, you can go directly to the GitHub PR instead:
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/26883

For reference, here is a link to the current document:
https://docs.python.org/3/library/__main__.html

This is a major change, so I'm thankful for anyone who can take the time to
review it. I am a new cpython contributor, so advice for how to push this ahead
is also welcome. For example, should I break this up into multiple PRs at this
point?

Thank you all!
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[Python-Dev] Re: Heads up: `make` in Doc now creates a venv

[Jack DeVries]

What do you think about an environment variable?

USE_VENV=false make html

Maybe we can use a variable with a more explicit name so people can keep it
in their environments if they wish?

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 7:19 AM Miro Hrončok  wrote:

> On 06. 08. 21 12:21, Łukasz Langa wrote:
> >
> >> On 4 Aug 2021, at 11:48, Miro Hrončok  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 04. 08. 21 11:28, Petr Viktorin wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>> A recent change "make html" in the Doc directory create a venv if one
> wasn't there before. If you don't want to download sphinx and other
> dependencies from PyPI, you'll need to adjust your workflow.
> >>> If you already have all the dependencies, the following command (in
> the CPython directory, not Doc) will build docs for you:
> >>>   sphinx-build Doc Doc/build/
> >>> The issue that added this is: https://bugs.python.org/issue44756
> >>
> >> For what it's worth, I think that:
> >>
> >> - changes in the workflow should be discussed first
> >> - changes like this should not happen this late in the release cycle
> >> - a documented/supported way to build the docs with make without venv
> should
> >>exist (currently, running `mkdir venv` before `make ...` kinda works)
> >
> > Sorry for the disruption, I approved the change. I didn't realize
> skipping the `venv` altogether was a viable build option and I've been
> making releases with docs for over two years now. For me this change was
> mostly a matter of convenience.
> >
> > If the current state is undesirable for downstream distributors, I can
> revert `make build` being explicitly dependent on `make venv`.
>
> The current state is OK-ish but fragile. There is a way to skip the venv
> creation by creating an empty venv directory. However, it is undocumented
> and
> implementation-dependent (read: it is a hack). If we have a supported way
> to do
> this, I wouldn't might the default changed (although, honestly I don't
> think
> this should have been backported to 3.9 at this point).
>
> > Regardless of that, for future build-related changes I'll make sure to
> loop more people in.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Miro Hrončok
> --
> Phone: +420777974800
> IRC: mhroncok
>
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