Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
On 2009-03-25, Guilherme Polo wrote: > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Mark Summerfield wrote: > > On 2009-03-23, Guilherme Polo wrote: > >> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >> > Guilherme Polo wrote: > >> >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >> >>> IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person > >> >>> is likely to have > >> >> > >> >> I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to > >> >> write a good proposal for it. > >> >> My actual concern is about mentor availability, is someone around > >> >> interested on being an IDLE mentor ? > >> > > >> > If I could, I would, and would have said so. But I have only read > >> > about tk and have not actually used it. If I did decide to dive into > >> > it, you'd be mentoring me ;-). What I can and would do is give ideas > >> > for changes, read and comment on a proposal, and user test patched > >> > versions. > >> > >> That is very nice Terry. Do you have some specific ideas that you want > >> to share publicly (or in private) about IDLE ? Your expectations about > >> what should be addressed first, or areas that should be improved.. you > >> know, anything. > > > > I have one suggestion that I think might be widely appreciated: > > > > Add somewhere in the configuration dialog when users can enter a block > > of Python code to be executed at startup and whenever Restart Shell is > > executed. > > > > Use case: for people who use IDLE for calculations/experiments they > > might like to always have certain module imported. For me personally, it > > would be: > > > >import os > >import re > >import sys > >from math import * > > > > but of course the whole point is that people can write any code they > > like. (Some people might want to do various from __future__ imports in > > Python 2.6 to get various Python 3 features for example.) > > > > I know that you can use the -c option, but that only works at startup, > > not every time you Restart Shell. > > Looks like a good suggestion to me, Mark. > I would recommend adding it as a feature request on the typical place > (bugs.python.org) because although I could just go and do it, I > believe you are aware that new features in IDLE are subject to > approval or disapproval by other members involved with IDLE. Hope you > understand my position. [snip] Added as issue 5594. -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "Programming in Python 3" - ISBN 0137129297 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Mark Summerfield wrote: > On 2009-03-23, Guilherme Polo wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: >> > Guilherme Polo wrote: >> >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: >> >>> IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is >> >>> likely to have >> >> >> >> I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to write >> >> a good proposal for it. >> >> My actual concern is about mentor availability, is someone around >> >> interested on being an IDLE mentor ? >> > >> > If I could, I would, and would have said so. But I have only read about >> > tk and have not actually used it. If I did decide to dive into it, you'd >> > be mentoring me ;-). What I can and would do is give ideas for changes, >> > read and comment on a proposal, and user test patched versions. >> >> That is very nice Terry. Do you have some specific ideas that you want >> to share publicly (or in private) about IDLE ? Your expectations about >> what should be addressed first, or areas that should be improved.. you >> know, anything. > > I have one suggestion that I think might be widely appreciated: > > Add somewhere in the configuration dialog when users can enter a block > of Python code to be executed at startup and whenever Restart Shell is > executed. > > Use case: for people who use IDLE for calculations/experiments they > might like to always have certain module imported. For me personally, it > would be: > > import os > import re > import sys > from math import * > > but of course the whole point is that people can write any code they > like. (Some people might want to do various from __future__ imports in > Python 2.6 to get various Python 3 features for example.) > > I know that you can use the -c option, but that only works at startup, > not every time you Restart Shell. > Looks like a good suggestion to me, Mark. I would recommend adding it as a feature request on the typical place (bugs.python.org) because although I could just go and do it, I believe you are aware that new features in IDLE are subject to approval or disapproval by other members involved with IDLE. Hope you understand my position. > [snip] > > -- > Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu > C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy > "Rapid GUI Programming with Python and Qt" - ISBN 0132354187 > > Regards, -- -- Guilherme H. Polo Goncalves ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Scott David Daniels wrote: > Guilherme Polo wrote: >> >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: >>> >>> IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is >>> likely to have >> >> I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to write >> a good proposal for it. >> My actual concern is about mentor availability, is someone around >> interested on being an IDLE mentor ? > > You might want to talk to Bruce Sherwood, as VPython suffered through > a bunch of Idle problems. I got the impression he had a person or two > who were his Idle experts (so I am thinking they might be the mentors > you are looking for). In any case, even a charter of "unit tests to 50% > coverage" of Idle would be a huge improvement. > Thanks for the direction Scott. I have talked with Bruce yesterday and now again, he included a list of issues that is considered important to be fixed but unfortunately several of them are related to mac only and I won't be able to properly address them. He also pointed me to the person that worked on some issues regarding IDLE and VPython, waiting now to hear if he is interested on gsoc. > I've run after specific bugs in Idle, but don't really know the lay of > the land. > > > --Scott David Daniels > scott.dani...@acm.org Thanks, -- -- Guilherme H. Polo Goncalves ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
On 2009-03-23, Guilherme Polo wrote: > On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > > Guilherme Polo wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >>> IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is > >>> likely to have > >> > >> I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to write > >> a good proposal for it. > >> My actual concern is about mentor availability, is someone around > >> interested on being an IDLE mentor ? > > > > If I could, I would, and would have said so. But I have only read about > > tk and have not actually used it. If I did decide to dive into it, you'd > > be mentoring me ;-). What I can and would do is give ideas for changes, > > read and comment on a proposal, and user test patched versions. > > That is very nice Terry. Do you have some specific ideas that you want > to share publicly (or in private) about IDLE ? Your expectations about > what should be addressed first, or areas that should be improved.. you > know, anything. I have one suggestion that I think might be widely appreciated: Add somewhere in the configuration dialog when users can enter a block of Python code to be executed at startup and whenever Restart Shell is executed. Use case: for people who use IDLE for calculations/experiments they might like to always have certain module imported. For me personally, it would be: import os import re import sys from math import * but of course the whole point is that people can write any code they like. (Some people might want to do various from __future__ imports in Python 2.6 to get various Python 3 features for example.) I know that you can use the -c option, but that only works at startup, not every time you Restart Shell. [snip] -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "Rapid GUI Programming with Python and Qt" - ISBN 0132354187 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
Guilherme Polo wrote: On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is likely to have I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to write a good proposal for it. My actual concern is about mentor availability, is someone around interested on being an IDLE mentor ? You might want to talk to Bruce Sherwood, as VPython suffered through a bunch of Idle problems. I got the impression he had a person or two who were his Idle experts (so I am thinking they might be the mentors you are looking for). In any case, even a charter of "unit tests to 50% coverage" of Idle would be a huge improvement. I've run after specific bugs in Idle, but don't really know the lay of the land. --Scott David Daniels scott.dani...@acm.org ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > Guilherme Polo wrote: >> >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: >>> >>> IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is >>> likely to have >>> >> >> I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to write >> a good proposal for it. >> My actual concern is about mentor availability, is someone around >> interested on being an IDLE mentor ? > > If I could, I would, and would have said so. But I have only read about tk > and have not actually used it. If I did decide to dive into it, you'd be > mentoring me ;-). What I can and would do is give ideas for changes, read > and comment on a proposal, and user test patched versions. > That is very nice Terry. Do you have some specific ideas that you want to share publicly (or in private) about IDLE ? Your expectations about what should be addressed first, or areas that should be improved.. you know, anything. The proposal I'm planning will include IDLE but it will also include some Tkinter, since it depends on it and bugs on the later can affect the former as you know. I was planning to first target the lack of tests of both IDLE and Tkinter, I believe that by adding tests (and doing it nicely) may change how future changes are applied (I'm thinking about having them getting new tests for new features, fixes, etc as it happens for other areas in Python) and will make easier to maintain them. My other target is to check the open tickets in the bug tracker regarding IDLE and Tkinter too, I have been much more active on the later so the former will take some more time to test/think/make a decision. I will be able to test these changes under Linux and on plain Windows XP, Vista and the 7 but differences between different system configurations may also affect IDLE, so any help you can provide will be very much appreciated. Hopefully someone with a mac will be able to provide some help here too. > Terry > -- -- Guilherme H. Polo Goncalves ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
Guilherme Polo wrote: On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is likely to have I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to write a good proposal for it. My actual concern is about mentor availability, is someone around interested on being an IDLE mentor ? If I could, I would, and would have said so. But I have only read about tk and have not actually used it. If I did decide to dive into it, you'd be mentoring me ;-). What I can and would do is give ideas for changes, read and comment on a proposal, and user test patched versions. Terry ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is > likely to have > I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to write a good proposal for it. My actual concern is about mentor availability, is someone around interested on being an IDLE mentor ? Regards, -- -- Guilherme H. Polo Goncalves ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is > likely to have > > I've actually heard this from several people, IDLE on Py3 etc Who would be a good person to mentor such a project? ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is likely to have ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
