Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Antoine Pitrou]

Raymond Hettinger  rcn.com> writes:

> 
> >>> You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you
> >>> want in this release;
> 
> I'm making minor updates to the decimal module to match the 1.68 version of
the spec.

What about decimal-in-C, by the way? Is anyone still working on it?

Regards

Antoine.


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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Raymond Hettinger]

I'm making minor updates to the decimal module to match the 1.68 version of the 
spec.


Looks like most was already done.  Just needs some doc fixes.


Raymond
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Raymond Hettinger]

You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you
want in this release;


I'm making minor updates to the decimal module to match the 1.68 version of the 
spec.


Raymond
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Benjamin Peterson]

2009/3/9  :
>
>    >>> You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you
>    >>> want in this release;
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue4847
>
> Not yet fixed.  Needs:
>
>    * Decision about the correct fix (I think it will involve an API
>      change).
>
>    * Test case and a patch.
>
>    * Probably small documentation changes as well.
>
> I'm wiped out this evening.  I'll try to look into it, but I suspect it
> might require a bit more time than I have in the next day or two.

That seems important, but quite "serious" enough to warrant inclusion
in the PEP. (and not a feature) If you'd like it to block the release,
you can set the priority to "release blocker."



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Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Benjamin Peterson]

2009/3/9 Raymond Hettinger :
>>   >>> You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you
>>   >>> want in this release;
>
> Bob Ippolito has a good sized patch to update the json module
> and improve its performance.
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue4136

...and it's already on the PEP. :)


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Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Raymond Hettinger]

   >>> You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you
   >>> want in this release;


Bob Ippolito has a good sized patch to update the json module
and improve its performance.

http://bugs.python.org/issue4136



Raymond
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[skip]

>>> You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you
>>> want in this release;

http://bugs.python.org/issue4847

Not yet fixed.  Needs:

* Decision about the correct fix (I think it will involve an API
  change).

* Test case and a patch.

* Probably small documentation changes as well.  

I'm wiped out this evening.  I'll try to look into it, but I suspect it
might require a bit more time than I have in the next day or two.

Skip
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Benjamin Peterson]

2009/3/9 Terry Reedy :
> Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>>
>>> You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you want
>>> in this release; I know I/O in C is on the list (and without it I
>>> wouldn't consider it worth releasing) but there may be others. The
>>> developers of such features ought to be on board with delivering their
>>> code before the first beta.
>>
>> I've started a list on the release PEP [1].
>>
>> [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0375/
>
> Please add "auto-numbered replacement fields in str.format() strings"
> 

Done.



-- 
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Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Terry Reedy]

Benjamin Peterson wrote:



You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you want
in this release; I know I/O in C is on the list (and without it I
wouldn't consider it worth releasing) but there may be others. The
developers of such features ought to be on board with delivering their
code before the first beta.


I've started a list on the release PEP [1].

[1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0375/


Please add "auto-numbered replacement fields in str.format() strings"


Guido wrote today "Please go ahead and finish this. I'm glad this is 
going in!"


Eric Smith says he should have a final patch ready by the end of PyCon 
or so.


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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Nick Coghlan]

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> A suggestion, though.  View the contribution visualization video based
> on the commit log (the URL was posted here a while back, but I don't
> seem to have it offhand), which shows what a vibrant community this is
> in a very graphic way.

There's one here:
http://www.vimeo.com/1093745

That one runs up until just after the switch to subversion (as indicated
by the big influx of "new" names at the end, which is largely an
artifact of usernames changing from shortened forms to full names).

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
---
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Martin v. Löwis]

> I guess I'm saying that I'm surprised people aren't a bit more
> appreciative of the opportunity to review code. 

Not sure what "people" you are referring to here which aren't
appreciative of the opportunity to review code. Committers?
Non-committers?

> I don't think I would even be on this list or
> attempting to put together my first (and almost inconseqentially small)
> patch if it weren't for the fact that I see it as a huge opportunity.
> It's certainly not an attempt to 'push' anything into the language.

And this attitude I like best from contributors. Many people contribute
because they want to help, and don't expect anything in return.

However, many other people contribute because it solves a problem that
they have (scratch your own itch). They keep having the problem even
after they fixed it, in a sense, because they now have to reapply the
patch over and over again - for each Python release, and possibly for
each machine they deploy to (and for some, they can't change the
installed Python). Those people are eager to see their patch integrated,
preferably into the version that is already installed on their machines
(which requires the time machine :-)

> Would you object to my blogging on the topic in line with the comments
> that I have just made? 

Go ahead! I really can't say much about blogging - I don't write blogs,
nor read them.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Martin v. Löwis]

> I hope that somebody will pick up the slack here, because review is
> really important to the workflow, and getting more people involved in
> reviewing at some level is more important (because it's less
> glamorous in itself) than attracting coders.

Ok, then let me phrase it this way: if somebody else makes the offer,
I'll continue to support it (so to share the load between us two).

Regards,
Martin

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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Tennessee Leeuwenburg writes:

 > > I hope that somebody will pick up the slack here, because review is
 > > really important to the workflow, and getting more people involved in
 > > reviewing at some level is more important (because it's less
 > > glamorous in itself) than attracting coders.

 > I would have said that participating in a project at that level
 > would basically be the best opportunity for ongoing learning and
 > development available.

It is, and IMO Python is an excellent example of that.  Please don't
get me wrong -- the core developers do a lot of reviewing.  It's just
not as visible, or as clearly available to non-core participants, as
Martin's 1-for-5 offer was.

Many, perhaps most, contributions are one-offs by people to whom
Python is a tool, not their community.  They have little time, and as
far as they know, less expertise to participate in the review process.
Martin's offer was an open invitation, in terms that any contributor
can appreciate, even if they don't take advantage of it right away.

I admire that style.

 > Would you object to my blogging on the topic in line with the
 > comments that I have just made?

It's not my place to say yes or no, to you or on behalf of the
community.

A suggestion, though.  View the contribution visualization video based
on the commit log (the URL was posted here a while back, but I don't
seem to have it offhand), which shows what a vibrant community this is
in a very graphic way.

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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Tennessee Leeuwenburg]

> Well, that happens.  An alternative to withdrawing entirely, would be
> increasing the price (eg, to ten patches as you originally suggested).
> Or specifying windows in your calendar when the offer is open.  Eg,
> avoid doubling up on release times when you need make time to build
> installers etc. ... but of course just before release is when people
> will get antsy about their "lost" patches.
>
> I hope that somebody will pick up the slack here, because review is
> really important to the workflow, and getting more people involved in
> reviewing at some level is more important (because it's less
> glamorous in itself) than attracting coders.


It's funny ... I would have thought that one of the most attractive aspects
of offering patches for inclusion was not just getting feature X into the
language, but the opportunity to have your code reviewed by the best of the
best, or similarly to review the code of others and really think about its
strengths and weaknesses. I would have said that participating in a project
at that level would basically be the best opportunity for ongoing learning
and development available.
I guess I'm saying that I'm surprised people aren't a bit more appreciative
of the opportunity to review code. I mean, I wouldn't think that Python was
"just work" for anyone who has the passion to commit back to the core
project. I don't think I would even be on this list or attempting to put
together my first (and almost inconseqentially small) patch if it weren't
for the fact that I see it as a huge opportunity. It's certainly not an
attempt to 'push' anything into the language.

Obviously that's what you found though -- people who weren't really
understanding of how the language gets put together. I can imagine having
held that view in the past myself, also. I can to some extent understand the
perspective of feeling you have some fantastic idea which you'd love to get
implemented; yet the people who can make it happen are too concerned with
their own issues to take the time to roll in your changes.

Would you object to my blogging on the topic in line with the comments that
I have just made? I almost feel silly making that kind of suggestion after
having only been here a short time -- I feel a bit boorish! -- but having
run The Python Papers and also no longer being a 'green' developer at work,
I feel as though I do have something to contribute on the topic even if it
is somewhat immaturely conceived.

Regards,
-Tennessee
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

"Martin v. Löwis" writes:

 > >From time to time, people ask what they can do push a change into Python
 > that they really think is important. I once offered that people who
 > want a patch in Python really badly should review 10 other patches in
 > return, up to the point where they make a recommendation about the fate
 > of the patches. I was then talked into accepting just 5 such patches.
 > I have since withdrawn this offer, because

I'm really sad to hear that.  I considered that one of the really nice
features of Python as a project (even though it was of course your
individual initiative).

 > a) I was the only one making that offer in public, and

IIRC others did, but you were the only one to do so repeatedly and as
a timely response to reports that the patch queue was going untended.

 > b) I was sometimes not really able to respond in a timely manner
 >when the offer was invoked, because of overload.

Well, that happens.  An alternative to withdrawing entirely, would be
increasing the price (eg, to ten patches as you originally suggested).
Or specifying windows in your calendar when the offer is open.  Eg,
avoid doubling up on release times when you need make time to build
installers etc. ... but of course just before release is when people
will get antsy about their "lost" patches.

I hope that somebody will pick up the slack here, because review is
really important to the workflow, and getting more people involved in
reviewing at some level is more important (because it's less
glamorous in itself) than attracting coders.
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Martin v. Löwis]

> So what is the solution?

In the specific case, I don't know. I recall that somebody offered to
pick up the change. I really didn't mean to suggest that the patch
will remain unnoticed - it was just a warning that it *might* remain
unnoticed.

The more general issue is that of patches being unreviewed for a long
time, whether they have educational background or some other background
(say, cross-compilation, HP-UX support, etc).

>From time to time, people ask what they can do push a change into Python
that they really think is important. I once offered that people who
want a patch in Python really badly should review 10 other patches in
return, up to the point where they make a recommendation about the fate
of the patches. I was then talked into accepting just 5 such patches.
I have since withdrawn this offer, because
a) I was the only one making that offer in public, and
b) I was sometimes not really able to respond in a timely manner
   when the offer was invoked, because of overload.

So, for the more general issue, I don't have a solution, either.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Guilherme Polo]

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Brad Miller  wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 4:22 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" 
> wrote:
>>
>> > Would whoever is responsible for IDLE please take a look at the patches
>> > I submitted for Python 2 & 3 [tracker IDs 5233 and 5234 respectively].
>> > These change the behavior of IDLE so that IDLESTARTUP or PYTHONSTARTUP
>> > files are executed with each restart. This allows loading frequently
>> > used packages, personal utilities, etc. automatically at each restart. I
>> > consider this a very important problem in IDLE, especially when using it
>> > to teach.
>>
>> Just to put this into perspective: I personally don't see that as a very
>> important problem. I didn't know IDLESTARTUP existed, and I use
>> PYTHONSTARTUP only for the command line (to setup readline and history).
>> I think there are many more open issues that are *way* more important.
>
> Martin,
>   No disrespect intended but I don't see how this puts things into
> perspective.  I'm writing to you from the annual computer science education
> conference (SIGCSE)  where Python is clearly gaining ground as an important
> language for teaching computer science.
> It seems logical to me that the committers are high powered Python users who
> don't think much about Python being used in education.  I'm just as
> frustrated as Mitchell about a patch for displaying ranges and
> dict_keys/values objects in a more user friendly way.  I submitted this
> patch during the 3.0 alpha phase and it is still sitting around.  For me
> this is a serious problem, but I can understand how it seems pretty minor to
> others, who are not teaching new programmers.
> So what is the solution?  The obvious solution is for one of us, that is
> someone who uses Python as an education tool, to become a committer.  This
> seems problematic to me.  Although I'm willing to be a committer, and I'm
> confident I have the development skills necessary to be a committer I don't
> have the time to develop the resume of patches needed to earn that
> privilege.
> It would be nice if we could find some solution to this.

Or... IDLE could be taken out from Python. Tkinter is following the
same path too, sadly.
My hope is that by removing IDLE from Python it would bring new
developers that are not necessary python developers (by this I mean
developers of python itself). I changed IDLE quite a bit last year,
but I'm not sure if anyone cared enough to look at it (added tabs, ttk
support, themes, window relayout, and some other things), and I don't
think continuing with it in the stdlib is bringing any benefits.

I have commit access, and although I have been inactive for two or
three weeks (maybe a bit more) now, I have submitted plenty of fixes
for tkinter which are mostly reviewed by Martin, and only, Martin --
when he has time to review or when the fix hits some level of
"important enough" to be looked at. I could just commit these fixes,
but some people would hate me then because I didn't let anyone review,
so I don't really think adding more new committers will bring the
benefits you are expecting.

A different problem also present in both tkinter and IDLE is the lack of tests.

> Brad
>>
>>
>> This is not to say that the patch should not applied - I haven't even
>> looked at it. It's just a warning that, if no other committer feels this
>> is as important as you fell it is, it may not be committed reviewed and
>> committed before 3.1.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martin
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>
> --
> Brad Miller
> Assistant Professor, Computer Science
> Luther College
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Brad Miller]

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 4:22 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:

> > Would whoever is responsible for IDLE please take a look at the patches
> > I submitted for Python 2 & 3 [tracker IDs 5233 and 5234 respectively].
> > These change the behavior of IDLE so that IDLESTARTUP or PYTHONSTARTUP
> > files are executed with each restart. This allows loading frequently
> > used packages, personal utilities, etc. automatically at each restart. I
> > consider this a very important problem in IDLE, especially when using it
> > to teach.
>
> Just to put this into perspective: I personally don't see that as a very
> important problem. I didn't know IDLESTARTUP existed, and I use
> PYTHONSTARTUP only for the command line (to setup readline and history).
> I think there are many more open issues that are *way* more important.


Martin,

  No disrespect intended but I don't see how this puts things into
perspective.  I'm writing to you from the annual computer science education
conference (SIGCSE)  where Python is clearly gaining ground as an important
language for teaching computer science.

It seems logical to me that the committers are high powered Python users who
don't think much about Python being used in education.  I'm just as
frustrated as Mitchell about a patch for displaying ranges and
dict_keys/values objects in a more user friendly way.  I submitted this
patch during the 3.0 alpha phase and it is still sitting around.  For me
this is a serious problem, but I can understand how it seems pretty minor to
others, who are not teaching new programmers.

So what is the solution?  The obvious solution is for one of us, that is
someone who uses Python as an education tool, to become a committer.  This
seems problematic to me.  Although I'm willing to be a committer, and I'm
confident I have the development skills necessary to be a committer I don't
have the time to develop the resume of patches needed to earn that
privilege.

It would be nice if we could find some solution to this.

Brad


>
> This is not to say that the patch should not applied - I haven't even
> looked at it. It's just a warning that, if no other committer feels this
> is as important as you fell it is, it may not be committed reviewed and
> committed before 3.1.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
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Luther College
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Benjamin Peterson]

2009/3/3 Daniel (ajax) Diniz :
> Benjamin, I'd like to nominate a couple (minor) RFEs[1] and bug
> fixes[2] for 3.1. By 'nominate' I mean 'group related issues together,
> offer tests, docs, patches and/or reviews as needed and
> ask-pretty-please-for-inclusion' :)
>
> Would early post-3.1a1 versus pre-3.1a1 make a difference in
> likelihood of proposed changes going in? I can try to come up with a
> detailed list before March 5, but I'd rather present it next week,
> after taking a look at all remaining open issues.

Assuming you find reviews/committers for those patches, it's all good
until the first beta.



-- 
Regards,
Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Daniel (ajax) Diniz]

Mitchell L Model wrote:
> Would whoever is responsible for IDLE please take a look at the patches
> I submitted for Python 2 & 3 [tracker IDs 5233 and 5234 respectively].
[...]
> I would really like to see them in 3.1. The patch is already there;
> someone just has to do whatever gets done with patches to validate it
> and check it in. It's not a lot of code changes.

Mitchell, thanks for the reports and patches you've been contributing.
FWIW, I plan to follow up on these specific issues (and 5276) before
3.1a2, mostly to add tests and a +1 for integration.

Regards,
Daniel
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Daniel (ajax) Diniz]

Hi,

Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 3.1a1 March 7
> 3.1a2 April 4
> 3.1b1 May 2
> 3.1rc1 May 30
> 3.1rc2 June 13
> 3.1 Final June 27

Benjamin, I'd like to nominate a couple (minor) RFEs[1] and bug
fixes[2] for 3.1. By 'nominate' I mean 'group related issues together,
offer tests, docs, patches and/or reviews as needed and
ask-pretty-please-for-inclusion' :)

Would early post-3.1a1 versus pre-3.1a1 make a difference in
likelihood of proposed changes going in? I can try to come up with a
detailed list before March 5, but I'd rather present it next week,
after taking a look at all remaining open issues.

FWIW, further tracker cleanup should happen sometime next week, let me
know if you need any tracker janitorvelopment done :)

Regards,
Daniel

[1] Current list:
http://bugs.python.org/issue1097797
http://bugs.python.org/issue3244
http://bugs.python.org/issue736428
http://bugs.python.org/issue1175686
http://bugs.python.org/issue4733

[2] Examples:
http://bugs.python.org/issue4953
http://bugs.python.org/issue1074333
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Martin v. Löwis]

> Would whoever is responsible for IDLE please take a look at the patches
> I submitted for Python 2 & 3 [tracker IDs 5233 and 5234 respectively].
> These change the behavior of IDLE so that IDLESTARTUP or PYTHONSTARTUP
> files are executed with each restart. This allows loading frequently
> used packages, personal utilities, etc. automatically at each restart. I
> consider this a very important problem in IDLE, especially when using it
> to teach. 

Just to put this into perspective: I personally don't see that as a very
important problem. I didn't know IDLESTARTUP existed, and I use
PYTHONSTARTUP only for the command line (to setup readline and history).
I think there are many more open issues that are *way* more important.

This is not to say that the patch should not applied - I haven't even
looked at it. It's just a warning that, if no other committer feels this
is as important as you fell it is, it may not be committed reviewed and
committed before 3.1.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Mitchell L Model]

Would whoever is responsible for IDLE please take a look at the 
patches I submitted for Python 2 & 3 [tracker IDs 5233 and 5234 
respectively]. These change the behavior of IDLE so that IDLESTARTUP 
or PYTHONSTARTUP files are executed with each restart. This allows 
loading frequently used packages, personal utilities, etc. 
automatically at each restart. I consider this a very important 
problem in IDLE, especially when using it to teach. I would really 
like to see them in 3.1. The patch is already there; someone just has 
to do whatever gets done with patches to validate it and check it in. 
It's not a lot of code changes.

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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Benjamin Peterson]

2009/3/1 Paul Moore :
>
> Is it worth getting simplegeneric exposed in 3.1
> (http://bugs.python.org/issue5135)? If it's going to be in 2.7, I'd
> like to see it hit 3.1. The patch is against trunk (for 2.7) at the
> moment, I'm not sure what the process would be for forward-porting it
> (do I generate a new patch against the py3k branch, or should it be
> applied to trunk and merged in?)

Patches to the trunk are fine.

As for the actual feature, I don't think it should hold up releases.


-- 
Regards,
Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Nick Coghlan]

Paul Moore wrote:
> 2009/2/27 Benjamin Peterson :
>> 2009/2/27 Nick Coghlan  schrieb:
>>> I should have a PEP (and implementation) ready for alpha 2 to address
>>> the current discrepancy between contextlib.nested and actual nested with
>>> statements:
>>> http://bugs.python.org/issue5251
>>>
>>> If you do add a reference to that bug report to the release PEP, mark
>>> fixing it as a maybe though - with the associated PEP not even written
>>> yet, I obviously still have some work to do to get the semantic change
>>> approved by Guido and the rest of python-dev.
>> Ok. I've added it.
> 
> Is it worth getting simplegeneric exposed in 3.1
> (http://bugs.python.org/issue5135)? If it's going to be in 2.7, I'd
> like to see it hit 3.1. The patch is against trunk (for 2.7) at the
> moment, I'm not sure what the process would be for forward-porting it
> (do I generate a new patch against the py3k branch, or should it be
> applied to trunk and merged in?)

As much as I'd like to get a simple generic implementation into
functools, the lack of support for ABCs still bothers me (despite my
last post about that on the tracker item). I'd be a -0 on it going in as
is, but if someone can figure out a clever way of supporting ABCs
without completing killing the invocation speed for generics, that would
go up to a +1.

(The current difficulty of this may actually reflect a more significant
limitation on the available metadata for ABCs in PEP 3119: it is easy to
ask "is this specific type an example of this ABC?", but difficult to
ask "which ABCs is this type as example of?". For actual inheritance,
the __mro__ attribute means that both questions are easy to answer, but
I'm not aware of any corresponding way of answering the latter question
for ABCs)

Cheers,
Nick.

P.S. I just unassigned myself from that tracker item - I'm going to have
my hands full working on the proposed change to the with statement.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Paul Moore]

2009/2/27 Benjamin Peterson :
> 2009/2/27 Nick Coghlan  schrieb:
>>
>> I should have a PEP (and implementation) ready for alpha 2 to address
>> the current discrepancy between contextlib.nested and actual nested with
>> statements:
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue5251
>>
>> If you do add a reference to that bug report to the release PEP, mark
>> fixing it as a maybe though - with the associated PEP not even written
>> yet, I obviously still have some work to do to get the semantic change
>> approved by Guido and the rest of python-dev.
>
> Ok. I've added it.

Is it worth getting simplegeneric exposed in 3.1
(http://bugs.python.org/issue5135)? If it's going to be in 2.7, I'd
like to see it hit 3.1. The patch is against trunk (for 2.7) at the
moment, I'm not sure what the process would be for forward-porting it
(do I generate a new patch against the py3k branch, or should it be
applied to trunk and merged in?)

Paul.
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Benjamin Peterson]

2009/2/27 Nick Coghlan  schrieb:
>
> I should have a PEP (and implementation) ready for alpha 2 to address
> the current discrepancy between contextlib.nested and actual nested with
> statements:
> http://bugs.python.org/issue5251
>
> If you do add a reference to that bug report to the release PEP, mark
> fixing it as a maybe though - with the associated PEP not even written
> yet, I obviously still have some work to do to get the semantic change
> approved by Guido and the rest of python-dev.

Ok. I've added it.



-- 
Regards,
Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Nick Coghlan]

Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2009/2/27 Raymond Hettinger :
> You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you want
> in this release; I know I/O in C is on the list (and without it I
> wouldn't consider it worth releasing) but there may be others. The
> developers of such features ought to be on board with delivering their
> code before the first beta.
 I've started a list on the release PEP [1].

 [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0375/
>>> I think you could add "update json package to reflect the current
>>> simplejson
>>> version" (see http://bugs.python.org/issue4136).
>> Also, I'm expecting that ordered dictionaries will be ready:
>>  http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0372/
> 
> Thanks. I've added these items to the PEP.

I should have a PEP (and implementation) ready for alpha 2 to address
the current discrepancy between contextlib.nested and actual nested with
statements:
http://bugs.python.org/issue5251

If you do add a reference to that bug report to the release PEP, mark
fixing it as a maybe though - with the associated PEP not even written
yet, I obviously still have some work to do to get the semantic change
approved by Guido and the rest of python-dev.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
---
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Benjamin Peterson]

2009/2/27 Raymond Hettinger :
>
>>> > You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you want
>>> > in this release; I know I/O in C is on the list (and without it I
>>> > wouldn't consider it worth releasing) but there may be others. The
>>> > developers of such features ought to be on board with delivering their
>>> > code before the first beta.
>>>
>>> I've started a list on the release PEP [1].
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0375/
>>
>> I think you could add "update json package to reflect the current
>> simplejson
>> version" (see http://bugs.python.org/issue4136).
>
> Also, I'm expecting that ordered dictionaries will be ready:
>  http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0372/

Thanks. I've added these items to the PEP.



-- 
Regards,
Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Raymond Hettinger]

> You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you want
> in this release; I know I/O in C is on the list (and without it I
> wouldn't consider it worth releasing) but there may be others. The
> developers of such features ought to be on board with delivering their
> code before the first beta.

I've started a list on the release PEP [1].

[1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0375/


I think you could add "update json package to reflect the current simplejson
version" (see http://bugs.python.org/issue4136).


Also, I'm expecting that ordered dictionaries will be ready:
  http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0372/



Raymond


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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Antoine Pitrou]

Benjamin,

> > You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you want
> > in this release; I know I/O in C is on the list (and without it I
> > wouldn't consider it worth releasing) but there may be others. The
> > developers of such features ought to be on board with delivering their
> > code before the first beta.
> 
> I've started a list on the release PEP [1].
> 
> [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0375/

I think you could add "update json package to reflect the current simplejson
version" (see http://bugs.python.org/issue4136).

cheers

Antoine.


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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Barry Warsaw]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 17, 2009, at 8:55 AM, Gregor Lingl wrote:


Is the intention to release 2.7 and 3.1 in parallel?


I don't think we should this time.  We want to get 3.1 out sooner than  
the typical 18 month development cycle, and I think we should  
concentrate on making that a great release without worrying about also  
trying to get 2.7 out.


:Barry

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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Benjamin Peterson]

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Gregor Lingl  wrote:
>>
>> I've started a list on the release PEP [1].
>>
>> [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0375/
>>
>
> Is the intention to release 2.7 and 3.1 in parallel?

No.

>
> I suspect, comparing this to
>
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/
>
> that there is some name mangling in pep-0375?

It seems I left "2.7" in the prose a few times. I've fixed that now.



-- 
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Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Gregor Lingl]

Benjamin Peterson schrieb:

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Guido van Rossum  wrote...
  



Something like this?

3.1a1 March 7
3.1a2 April 4
3.1b1 May 2
3.1rc1 May 30
3.1rc2 June 13
3.1 Final June 27

That sounds reasonable. I will try to enforce a fairly strict
stability policy during the beta and RCs.
  



I've started a list on the release PEP [1].

[1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0375/
  

Is the intention to release 2.7 and 3.1 in parallel?

I suspect, comparing this to

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/

that there is some name mangling in pep-0375?

Regards,
Gregor
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Benjamin Peterson]

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Benjamin Peterson  
> wrote:
>> 3.1a1 March 7 (Saturday)
>> 3.1a2 April 11 (Saturday)
>> 3.1b1 May 2 (Saturday)
>> 3.1b2 May 23 (Saturday)
>> 3.1rc1 June 13 (Saturday)
>> 3.1rc2 June 27 (Saturday)
>
> And final release on...?

Oops! Forgot about that one. :) July 4th.

>> I'm interested in your feedback with regards to the amount of time in
>> beta and RC phase. Do you think we need that much time? Otherwise, we
>> could move the final release back sometime in mid June.
>
> It's a bit hard to compare this to other release schedules because
> it's coming much sooner after 3.0. I would guess this means that not
> as much has changed, and so the schedule could conceivably more
> compressed. If you want to take beta seriously as a time of
> consolidation where no new features should be added and no API changes
> should take place, you might consider dropping one beta, since in
> practice it is often hard to keep developers from wanting to change
> stuff anyways.

Something like this?

3.1a1 March 7
3.1a2 April 4
3.1b1 May 2
3.1rc1 May 30
3.1rc2 June 13
3.1 Final June 27

That sounds reasonable. I will try to enforce a fairly strict
stability policy during the beta and RCs.

> You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you want
> in this release; I know I/O in C is on the list (and without it I
> wouldn't consider it worth releasing) but there may be others. The
> developers of such features ought to be on board with delivering their
> code before the first beta.

I've started a list on the release PEP [1].

[1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0375/



--
Regards,
Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Guido van Rossum]

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Benjamin Peterson  wrote:
> Here's a very tentative 3.1 release schedule.

Thanks! Glad you're taking your new role of release manager seriously
and are starting to plan ahead.

> 3.1a1 March 7 (Saturday)
> 3.1a2 April 11 (Saturday)
> 3.1b1 May 2 (Saturday)
> 3.1b2 May 23 (Saturday)
> 3.1rc1 June 13 (Saturday)
> 3.1rc2 June 27 (Saturday)

And final release on...?

> I'm interested in your feedback with regards to the amount of time in
> beta and RC phase. Do you think we need that much time? Otherwise, we
> could move the final release back sometime in mid June.

It's a bit hard to compare this to other release schedules because
it's coming much sooner after 3.0. I would guess this means that not
as much has changed, and so the schedule could conceivably more
compressed. If you want to take beta seriously as a time of
consolidation where no new features should be added and no API changes
should take place, you might consider dropping one beta, since in
practice it is often hard to keep developers from wanting to change
stuff anyways.

You might also want to collect a list of serious changes that you want
in this release; I know I/O in C is on the list (and without it I
wouldn't consider it worth releasing) but there may be others. The
developers of such features ought to be on board with delivering their
code before the first beta.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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[Python-Dev] draft 3.1 release schedule

[Benjamin Peterson]

Here's a very tentative 3.1 release schedule.

3.1a1 March 7 (Saturday)
3.1a2 April 11 (Saturday)
3.1b1 May 2 (Saturday)
3.1b2 May 23 (Saturday)
3.1rc1 June 13 (Saturday)
3.1rc2 June 27 (Saturday)

I'm interested in your feedback with regards to the amount of time in
beta and RC phase. Do you think we need that much time? Otherwise, we
could move the final release back sometime in mid June.

-- 
Regards,
Benjamin
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