Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 10:56 +0100, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:44:32 + > Tim Wintle wrote: > > > > 2.5 apps are the speed-critical ones. Our tests showed the performance > > was different enough between 2.5 and 2.6 for me to not update. > > Really? Where's the regression? I'm not certain - IIRC there were several nice optimisations in 2.6, and I wasn't expecting that when I first looked. I was running code designed for 2.5 under 2.6, so it's likely that with sufficient tweaking for 2.6 I might not have the same result. I tested this specific code with the python builds we have in production, not general python code - I don't mean this as a recommendation that anyone else assume 2.5 is faster for them. I suspect that Stefan's comments about newly added features without the optimisation in python3 might be partially true, but having the extra code to support them (while not using them) might also be part of the cause - ceval.c had over 1K line changes between r25 and r26, including cases for new opcodes, and new opcode predictions etc - it's possible that my code just happens to not follow the most optimal paths. I'm talking about a slow-down of under 10%, but enough that I couldn't justify moving these apps to 2.6 at the time for economic reasons, and pypy would be the main incentive to move this to 2.7. Tim ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:44:32 + > Tim Wintle wrote: >> >> 2.5 apps are the speed-critical ones. Our tests showed the performance >> was different enough between 2.5 and 2.6 for me to not update. > > Really? Where's the regression? > > Regards > > Antoine. Sounds weird, for all I know 2.6 is faster or not slower than 2.5. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
Antoine Pitrou, 22.12.2011 10:56: On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:44:32 + Tim Wintle wrote: 2.5 apps are the speed-critical ones. Our tests showed the performance was different enough between 2.5 and 2.6 for me to not update. Really? Where's the regression? That's not unexpected at least, and matches my own (limited) experience here. My gut feeling is that Py2.6 added a lot of "new in Py3.0" overhead, but without all the optimisations that went into Py3.x since then. At least some of that came back later with Py2.7. Would be nice to (eventually) see Py2.[567] run in speed.python.org in order to get a better idea of the relative performance. Stefan ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:44:32 + Tim Wintle wrote: > > 2.5 apps are the speed-critical ones. Our tests showed the performance > was different enough between 2.5 and 2.6 for me to not update. Really? Where's the regression? Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 4:49 AM, Michael Foord wrote:
>
> On 22 Dec 2011, at 01:25, Mark Hammond wrote:
>
> > FWIW, the most recent version of pywin32 has the following download
> counts (rounded to the nearest thousand)
> >
> > Version 32bit 64bit
> > -
> > 3.2 - 75,000 9,000
> > 3.1 - 4,000 1,000
> > 2.7 - 126,000 16,000
> > 2.6 - 46,000 6,000
> > 2.5 - 21,000 n/a
> > 2.4 - 3,000 n/a
> > 2.3 - 1,000 n/a
> >
> > So ISTM that 2.5 isn't hugely popular these days, but also isn't
> insignificant. It probably means I could "safely" drop 2.3 and 2.4 support
> though...
> >
>
>
> These figures can't possibly be true. No-one is using Python 3 yet. ;-)
>
python.org should have a poll/settings for active python.org accounts to
allow people mark when they switch to Python 3.
FWIW I heard a few days ago about a UK government department, HMGCC (Her
> Majesty's Government Communication Centre - based in Milton Keynes), who
> use Python for research projects. They switched to using Python 3 a while
> ago.
>
if that == True:
front_page.response(news_template.render("News About Her Majesty
switched to Python 3"))
Can't stand to do a +1 for the news item.
All the best,
>
> Michael Foord
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
I'm paid to write Python3. I've also been writing Python3 for hobby projects since mid 2010. I'm on the verge of going back to 2.7 due to compatibility issues :( On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 01:49:37 + > Michael Foord wrote: >> These figures can't possibly be true. No-one is using Python 3 yet. ;-) > > Since you brought it up. Is anyone paying people (or trying to hire > people) to write Python 3? > > Thanks, > -- > Mike Meyer http://www.mired.org/ > Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. > > O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/anacrolix%40gmail.com -- ಠ_ಠ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 01:49:37 + Michael Foord wrote: > These figures can't possibly be true. No-one is using Python 3 yet. ;-) Since you brought it up. Is anyone paying people (or trying to hire people) to write Python 3? Thanks, http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
On 22 Dec 2011, at 01:25, Mark Hammond wrote: > FWIW, the most recent version of pywin32 has the following download counts > (rounded to the nearest thousand) > > Version 32bit 64bit > - > 3.2 - 75,000 9,000 > 3.1 - 4,000 1,000 > 2.7 - 126,000 16,000 > 2.6 - 46,000 6,000 > 2.5 - 21,000 n/a > 2.4 - 3,000 n/a > 2.3 - 1,000 n/a > > So ISTM that 2.5 isn't hugely popular these days, but also isn't > insignificant. It probably means I could "safely" drop 2.3 and 2.4 support > though... > These figures can't possibly be true. No-one is using Python 3 yet. ;-) FWIW I heard a few days ago about a UK government department, HMGCC (Her Majesty's Government Communication Centre - based in Milton Keynes), who use Python for research projects. They switched to using Python 3 a while ago. All the best, Michael Foord > Mark > > On 21/12/2011 6:16 PM, Chris Withers wrote: >> What's the python-dev view on this? >> >> Original Message >> Subject: Anyone still using Python 2.5? >> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:15:46 + >> From: Chris Withers >> To: Python List , >> "testing-in-pyt...@lists.idyll.org" , >> simplis...@googlegroups.com >> >> Hi All, >> >> What's the general consensus on supporting Python 2.5 nowadays? >> >> Do people still have to use this in commercial environments or is >> everyone on 2.6+ nowadays? >> >> I'm finally getting some continuous integration set up for my packages >> and it's highlighting some 2.5 compatibility issues. I'm wondering >> whether to fix those (lots of ugly "from __future__ import >> with_statement" everywhere) or just to drop Python 2.5 support. >> >> What do people feel? >> >> cheers, >> >> Chris >> > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/fuzzyman%40voidspace.org.uk > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
Michael Foord wrote: > On 21 Dec 2011, at 12:42, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > > FWIW, Ubuntu dropped 2.5 quite a while ago. The next LTS (long term > > support) release in April 2012 will have only Python 2.7 (and 3.2). True, but 2.5 is still current on Hardy, an LTS release that is officially supported until April 2013. Lots of places still use 2.5 on Hardy (or on Lucid, the LTS release after Hardy, though they have to get it from the deadsnakes repository as its not the normal version on Lucid). My workplace uses 2.5 for a lot of things, but is slowly transitioning to 2.6. > For "production work" I've been on 2.6 for a while and will soon be > switching to 2.7 (I do my development on 2.7). > > For my libraries I'm still supporting 2.4. My own personal software generally tries to stay compatible further back. getmail is used on lots of little network appliances and such that don't necessarily run a current OS, so getmail v4 targets 2.3.3 and up. If I'm writing something new today, I usually assume 2.6 and up. Charles -- --- Charles Cazabon GPL'ed software available at: http://pyropus.ca/software/ --- ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
I am still working on projects based on Python2.4 in commercial environments (limitation of OS: Solaris 5.10). And I don't think this will be changed soon.. 2011/12/21 Michael Foord > > On 21 Dec 2011, at 12:42, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > On Dec 21, 2011, at 07:16 AM, Chris Withers wrote: > > > >> What's the general consensus on supporting Python 2.5 nowadays? > > > > FWIW, Ubuntu dropped 2.5 quite a while ago. The next LTS (long term > support) > > release in April 2012 will have only Python 2.7 (and 3.2). The currently > > in-development next Debian release currently has only Python 2.6, 2.7, > and 3.2 > > with 2.7 as the default. > > > > For my own code, Python 2.6 is the minimum, and I'm seeing more upstream > > libraries target 2.6 as a minimum also (e.g. dbus-python). When > projects say > > they still need to target older Pythons, RHEL support is usually cited > as the > > reason. > > > For "production work" I've been on 2.6 for a while and will soon be > switching to 2.7 (I do my development on 2.7). > > For my libraries I'm still supporting 2.4. The *major* syntax feature you > lose by targeting 2.4 is the with statement, so it will be nice to drop 2.4 > support. The next releases of mock and unittest2 will still support 2.4, > but the ones after that will be 2.5+. > > Thankfully tox makes testing across multiple versions (and > implementations) easy. > > All the best, > > Michael Foord > > > > > Cheers, > > -Barry > > ___ > > Python-Dev mailing list > > Python-Dev@python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/fuzzyman%40voidspace.org.uk > > > > > -- > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > May you do good and not evil > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > -- the sqlite blessing > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/jwzxgo%40gmail.com > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:16:06 + Chris Withers wrote: > What's the python-dev view on this? Python 2.5 is not supported by *us* anymore (*). Anyone still using it therefore relies on their OS vendor to apply potential security patches and other important fixes. Library authors can of course choose to still support it. I wouldn't care personally. I'm of the opinion that people who (by their choice of OS) have a preference for legacy software shouldn't ask for the latest versions of Python libraries. (*) From http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.5.6/ : “This release is the final release of Python 2.5; under the current release policy, no security issues in Python 2.5 will be fixed anymore.” Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone still using Python 2.5?
On 21 Dec 2011, at 12:42, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Dec 21, 2011, at 07:16 AM, Chris Withers wrote: > >> What's the general consensus on supporting Python 2.5 nowadays? > > FWIW, Ubuntu dropped 2.5 quite a while ago. The next LTS (long term support) > release in April 2012 will have only Python 2.7 (and 3.2). The currently > in-development next Debian release currently has only Python 2.6, 2.7, and 3.2 > with 2.7 as the default. > > For my own code, Python 2.6 is the minimum, and I'm seeing more upstream > libraries target 2.6 as a minimum also (e.g. dbus-python). When projects say > they still need to target older Pythons, RHEL support is usually cited as the > reason. For "production work" I've been on 2.6 for a while and will soon be switching to 2.7 (I do my development on 2.7). For my libraries I'm still supporting 2.4. The *major* syntax feature you lose by targeting 2.4 is the with statement, so it will be nice to drop 2.4 support. The next releases of mock and unittest2 will still support 2.4, but the ones after that will be 2.5+. Thankfully tox makes testing across multiple versions (and implementations) easy. All the best, Michael Foord > > Cheers, > -Barry > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/fuzzyman%40voidspace.org.uk > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
