Re: [Python-Dev] No releases tonight
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 1, 2008, at 12:36 AM, Steve Holden wrote: > If you can document the web stuff you have to do I will formalize it > as > a procedure for use in future releases. Hi Steve, In this case, there was a lot more work to do because 2.6 wasn't tied in at all. Add to the fact that I didn't have any experience with the website infrastructure made things a bit more difficult the first time out. I still don't quite have the 2.6 links working correctly in my local fs. So the biggest problem is really: what steps do you take when you need to expose a new major release on the website? - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR8lkF3EjvBPtnXfVAQLjtQP/cyIu6i/3hL7RMyJjwi5UWaVelq+6+DjX c8P6aLT0Gq2jIIacwt2P5lWYGx5D2nahoLCkLoA4M3avHM6UiTaIW45nFrnffItx F/ib/UY/j+gsudlg5GsZQrBTzvrso6BFDuIr9VISuzf3e6QRr7sAhUfXzgIETXjj DPT3y474bDs= =Kxv7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] No releases tonight
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 1, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Steve Holden wrote: > Barry Warsaw wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On Mar 1, 2008, at 12:36 AM, Steve Holden wrote: >> >>> If you can document the web stuff you have to do I will formalize it >>> as >>> a procedure for use in future releases. >> >> Hi Steve, >> >> In this case, there was a lot more work to do because 2.6 wasn't tied >> in at all. Add to the fact that I didn't have any experience with >> the >> website infrastructure made things a bit more difficult the first >> time >> out. I still don't quite have the 2.6 links working correctly in my >> local fs. So the biggest problem is really: what steps do you take >> when you need to expose a new major release on the website? >> > I guess the thing to do is to look at your diffs once you have > committed > the changes - I presume this'll all be dropped in as a single > revision? That would be great Steve, thanks! r11294. I'm going to build Python 3.0 now. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR8mEw3EjvBPtnXfVAQKm9gP+PdoDvqTmA4kuqVrNmQJdHSsQDVcB7/sV BRxeYH0S1TNo05NCzv6qyJ6nxe2CVI6he+chhoCbtCRqp6c5LQOXtaSHUqoSNzP9 FSw9YnQ3DHmFRX3BfNyZ7d9FS2Fs5irsLuAc+WUFNR0AWsvbwXR6qlT0qNQGP666 V46DiUdNhUA= =ybmk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] RELEASED Python 2.6a1 and 3.0a3
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm happy to announce the first alpha release of Python 2.6, and the third alpha release of Python 3.0. Python 2.6 is not only the next advancement in the Python 2 series, it is also a transitionary release, helping developers begin to prepare their code for Python 3.0. As such, many features are being backported from Python 3.0 to 2.6. It makes sense to release both versions in at the same time, the precedence for this having been set with the Python 1.6 and 2.0 releases. During the alpha testing cycle we will be releasing both versions in lockstep, on a monthly release cycle. The releases will happen on the last Friday of every month. If this schedule works well, we will continue releasing in lockstep during the beta program. See PEP 361 for schedule details: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0361/ Please note that these are alpha releases, and as such are not suitable for production environments. We continue to strive for a high degree of quality, but there are still some known problems and the feature sets have not been finalized. These alphas are being released to solicit feedback and hopefully discover bugs, as well as allowing you to determine how changes in 2.6 and 3.0 might impact you. If you find things broken or incorrect, please submit a bug report at http://bugs.python.org For more information and downloadable distributions, see the Python 2.6 web site: http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6/ and the Python 3.0 web site: http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/ We are planning a number of additional alpha releases, with the final release schedule still to be determined. Enjoy, - -Barry Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Python 2.6/3.0 Release Manager (on behalf of the entire python-dev team) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR8mlu3EjvBPtnXfVAQKePAQAgx6w9wztfJaSWkbKrbwur2U6t6o5aIY5 pyMa00CZWY06p8099BztcSjgp5rKrd6/9V7cJ0NP7NLZ+tz20uRfyI8uqoIYBIWC ibJay6SSnzgOQM3PRIJV/K/m0dVPPPVD1LDnoEvuu+cKUpV434yHdgWkMPswsxUd fLydrXABlOM= =l6aj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] No releases tonight
Barry Warsaw wrote: > In this case, there was a lot more work to do because 2.6 wasn't tied > in at all. Add to the fact that I didn't have any experience with the > website infrastructure made things a bit more difficult the first time > out. I still don't quite have the 2.6 links working correctly in my > local fs. So the biggest problem is really: what steps do you take > when you need to expose a new major release on the website? Starting with the first betas of 2.6 and 3.0 we should also work on official texts for the press. Other projects like PHP are drawing lots of attention with their releases, even with bug fix and security releases. Bad news are better than no news - a beta release is *good* news. When 3.0a2 was released I contacted two larger German IT news sites. Non of them even bother to reply. :/ I propose that we provide two official texts for the press. A shorter text which explains Python and the most important changes since the last version in a few paragraphs and a longer, more detailed text like Martin's text for the 2.5.2 release. I also propose translations of the shorter text to important languages like French, German, Japanese, Portuguese and Spanish. I'm willing to help with the German translation. Christian ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] The release process
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I just announced the 2.6a1 and 3.0a3 releases, and am thawing both branches. Just some quick feedback in case anybody is interested. First, huge thanks go to Brett Cannon, Neal Norwitz, Mark Dickinson and Fred Drake for their help last night. Apologies also to them for my drunken rants on jabber :). Also thanks to Martin von Loewis for the Windows msi's for Python 2.6. I'm sure Martin will soon provide msi's for 3.0, but these are not yet available. Some other random notes: Brett fixed test_profile in 3.0 last night but test_cProfile was still broken. I disabled the test via a TestSkipped and set this to expected in regrtest.py. This test should be fixed and the expected skip removed. I will definitely need help keeping the various NEWS files up to date. I don't see any way that I'll be able to spend time on these when I'm cutting a release. Python 2.6 NEWS was simply impossible to proofread because of its sheer size and the fact that it was the first alpha of the series. PEP 101 describes 4 news files: Misc/NEWS and Lib/idlelib/NEWS.txt for both 2.6 and 3.0. I am urgently requesting that when people commit newsworthy items to the Python releases that they keep the NEWS files up-to-date. This is especially tricky for code merged between the two versions. Thanks to Neal for looking over 3.0's NEWS file last night. As RM, I am going to operate on the assumption that the NEWS files are up-to-date. I'd be thrilled if someone volunteered to be the "NEWS czar" -- we all know when the next alpha release is coming (Friday March 25), so this czar would be responsible for watching commits and making sure that NEWS was updated as appropriate, or harassing the committer into updating NEWS to describe their new feature. If you'd like to be this NEWS czar, please let me know. With apologies to Anthony, welease is crack. I made pretty good progress once I ditched it and starting doing things manually. Between now and the next alpha I intend to work on a command line script to help with releases. If you're interested in helping, let me know. PEP 101 is sorely out of date, especially with regards to updating web content and the Python documentation. I think I now know how to update the python.org web site, but the new Python documentation format is still a mystery to me. If someone would like to help update PEP 101 for the documentation steps, please let me know. PEP 101 also describes some steps for updating the distutils version numbers. These instructions seemed stale too. If you know anything about distutils version numbers and the process for updating them, please contact me. There's no Misc/RPM/python-3.0.spec file so I skipped that step too. Sean, do you know anything about that? That's it. See you again next time :). Let me know if you notice anything broken about the releases. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR8mphXEjvBPtnXfVAQKPcwQAqQVP+IWO60/m1Rm1OKpcGfpS+BZILKvj LkLJamZ6gvupFeJj1kCr6eAl62Mqaec2Z29jsnXK9TfAogGGVcW21a98rgcQUong fRh34dt1YGVMcqw4r8G60kqYQG4caGJ9tS5oKEXq+lYWPfirLZ7mC1SkkfnJ9mVd Cscr0ZAYayI= =nnlY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] No releases tonight
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 1, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Christian Heimes wrote: > Barry Warsaw wrote: >> In this case, there was a lot more work to do because 2.6 wasn't tied >> in at all. Add to the fact that I didn't have any experience with >> the >> website infrastructure made things a bit more difficult the first >> time >> out. I still don't quite have the 2.6 links working correctly in my >> local fs. So the biggest problem is really: what steps do you take >> when you need to expose a new major release on the website? > > Starting with the first betas of 2.6 and 3.0 we should also work on > official texts for the press. Other projects like PHP are drawing lots > of attention with their releases, even with bug fix and security > releases. Bad news are better than no news - a beta release is > *good* news. Great idea, and I agree. I won't be the person spearheading this though, but since it'll probably be me making the announcement, I'd like to coordinate with this effort. > When 3.0a2 was released I contacted two larger German IT news sites. > Non > of them even bother to reply. :/ > > I propose that we provide two official texts for the press. A shorter > text which explains Python and the most important changes since the > last > version in a few paragraphs and a longer, more detailed text like > Martin's text for the 2.5.2 release. > > I also propose translations of the shorter text to important languages > like French, German, Japanese, Portuguese and Spanish. I'm willing to > help with the German translation. Cool, thanks. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR8mqVnEjvBPtnXfVAQIlkAP/U5z0xSaaDKbXxArncL49NpRTU5O431Wi +qdlnJQbApMtWMJyw14jXD0ovDlAFFK/71fGSUW7IxBvd+sWy9xJJpwydNz5xUVJ Ze3GYX0pWF0zDp9IIX9o3W9uotm9156lWe8Ahbsa0TWXN2AXyuRjyccIS7v2mU55 mHY6niZ8SbE= =OJl/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] No releases tonight
Steve Holden wrote: > PyCon is using a PR team to help with publicity. Maybe we can ask them > for assistance on how to get the word out? That's a *very* good idea! Let's ask some professionals rather than writing something on our own. Christian ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] C-API status of Python 3?
Hi all, I would like to know how stable the C-API of Python 3 is, or what the expected release level (beta?) would be at which I can expect it to stabilise. What is the plan here? The background is Cython, which will need to support Python 3 one day or another, so I wanted to know from which point on it will make sense to start thinking about a migration plan. Thanks, Stefan ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] The release process
Barry Warsaw wrote: > I will definitely need help keeping the various NEWS files up to > date. I don't see any way that I'll be able to spend time on these > when I'm cutting a release. Python 2.6 NEWS was simply impossible to > proofread because of its sheer size and the fact that it was the first > alpha of the series. > > PEP 101 describes 4 news files: Misc/NEWS and Lib/idlelib/NEWS.txt for > both 2.6 and 3.0. I am urgently requesting that when people commit > newsworthy items to the Python releases that they keep the NEWS files > up-to-date. This is especially tricky for code merged between the two > versions. Thanks to Neal for looking over 3.0's NEWS file last > night. As RM, I am going to operate on the assumption that the NEWS > files are up-to-date. I'd be thrilled if someone volunteered to be > the "NEWS czar" -- we all know when the next alpha release is coming > (Friday March 25), so this czar would be responsible for watching > commits and making sure that NEWS was updated as appropriate, or > harassing the committer into updating NEWS to describe their new > feature. If you'd like to be this NEWS czar, please let me know. I *never* sync changes from trunk Misc/NEWS to py3k Misc/NEWS. From my point of view it doesn't make sense to put Python 2.6 changes in the same section as Python 3.0 changes. Moving changes from to the right section would put a large and unnecessary burden on me. In general every change of the 2.6 source tree makes it into 3.0. Exceptions to the rule is stuff that makes no sense like 3.0 compatibility and warnings. Thumb rule: Changes, bug fixes and new features in 2.6 are also in 3.0 except they are outruled by a Python 3.0 feature. Several people including me and Guido himself are watching the cvs lists. We make sure everybody adds an entry to Misc/NEWS whenever a bug is fixed or a new feature is added. Otherwise we crack the whip ^H^H^H contact the committer. You can be sure that at least 98% of all closed bug reports, feature request and important changes have an entry in Misc/NEWS. So in general Misc/NEWS isn't an issue but Docs/whatsnew/ is. Only a couple of people - mostly Georg and Andrew - are updating the files. Christian ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] C-API status of Python 3?
Stefan Behnel wrote: > I would like to know how stable the C-API of Python 3 is, or what the expected > release level (beta?) would be at which I can expect it to stabilise. What is > the plan here? > > The background is Cython, which will need to support Python 3 one day or > another, so I wanted to know from which point on it will make sense to start > thinking about a migration plan. The 3.0 API isn't stable yet. I plan to rename some of the functions before the first beta is released. Currently the naming schema is too confusing: PyUnicode - str PyString - bytes PyBytes - bytearray See? :) The documentation for the PyString functions is outdated and IIRC the PyBytes docs are non existing. Christian ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] RELEASED Python 2.6a1 and 3.0a3
> As of 4:50 PM EST, the links to Windows installers give 404 File Not > Found. > > I gather that they are still in process, > and notice that there is no public c.l.p. announcement. I just fixed that. The files were there; just the links were wrong. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] The release process
> With apologies to Anthony, welease is crack. I made pretty good > progress once I ditched it and starting doing things manually. > Between now and the next alpha I intend to work on a command line > script to help with releases. If you're interested in helping, let me > know. I guess every release manager is free to come up with his own set of tools, but I feel you've given up too quickly (or started too late - perhaps a test release run a few days before the release would have helped). In any case, I'm willing to help with welease, but not with yet another release tool. If you primarily complain about the GUIness of welease, I could help with a command line version of it. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] RELEASED Python 2.6a1 and 3.0a3
On 01/03/2008, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As of 4:50 PM EST, the links to Windows installers give 404 File Not > > Found. > > > > I gather that they are still in process, > > and notice that there is no public c.l.p. announcement. > > > I just fixed that. The files were there; just the links were wrong. The 2.6a1 x86 MSI is there, but the 3.0a3 x86 MSI is still giving a 404. Paul. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] The release process
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 1, 2008, at 3:04 PM, Christian Heimes wrote: > I *never* sync changes from trunk Misc/NEWS to py3k Misc/NEWS. From my > point of view it doesn't make sense to put Python 2.6 changes in the > same section as Python 3.0 changes. Moving changes from to the right > section would put a large and unnecessary burden on me. In general > every > change of the 2.6 source tree makes it into 3.0. Exceptions to the > rule > is stuff that makes no sense like 3.0 compatibility and warnings. > > Thumb rule: Changes, bug fixes and new features in 2.6 are also in 3.0 > except they are outruled by a Python 3.0 feature. > > Several people including me and Guido himself are watching the cvs > lists. We make sure everybody adds an entry to Misc/NEWS whenever a > bug > is fixed or a new feature is added. Otherwise we crack the whip ^H^H^H > contact the committer. You can be sure that at least 98% of all > closed > bug reports, feature request and important changes have an entry in > Misc/NEWS. Great, this is all I'm really asking for! The point of my unconscionable rant :) was that I think it's unfeasible to update the NEWS files at release time. Knowing that you, Guido and others are keeping an eye on commits and an iron hand on the NEWS files makes me as the RM rest comfortably. :) > So in general Misc/NEWS isn't an issue but Docs/whatsnew/ is. Only a > couple of people - mostly Georg and Andrew - are updating the files. I think it's okay if these lag behind during the alphas, but it would be good to start whipping these in shape by the time we start releasing betas. Thanks, - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR8ncx3EjvBPtnXfVAQJeNQP+L2wK4CmGfwzgsQUHQISniaJ2rREBhJua sJwqGNpBhnf6Uc8jJz+JRiexPdCW4AlH34FtHkyRkw2ZIVWwd6sO+7ixQPk0A/TP +gGk1uST/sjPG3q8T5u9OElri5SoTqJzEgWMkTiGhwYouSvOjpW/GFFREySU68Tk h9XGzJFZex0= =aXqC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] RELEASED Python 2.6a1 and 3.0a3
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 1, 2008, at 5:26 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: >> As of 4:50 PM EST, the links to Windows installers give 404 File Not >> Found. >> >> I gather that they are still in process, >> and notice that there is no public c.l.p. announcement. > > I just fixed that. The files were there; just the links were wrong. Thanks for fixing these Martin! - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR8nY1HEjvBPtnXfVAQJ3YgP/TYr0X5vRqvVDEMgsHxHuiSuYZCIr8y36 ibAh3RAGeLLK7C7NiOyAfxkesf91HCbL1in0TcnD06QZy52O8elBa927JOomP3mc Y6K4Y49JhxonBrmGcmasnc9PFjbhXtGdWLREinuzpB5itLpRv+SevMhxP27Fp8qr df173TV4hpk= =nf32 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] RELEASED Python 2.6a1 and 3.0a3
> Thanks for fixing these Martin! I have now also uploaded signed MSI files for 3.0a3. I have not tested them on a machine which doesn't have the VS 2008 CRT installed (as all the machines I can access right now do have it); please report what works and what doesn't. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] RELEASED Python 2.6a1 and 3.0a3
> The 2.6a1 x86 MSI is there, but the 3.0a3 x86 MSI is still giving a 404. Please try again - *those* files weren't actually there when I sent my last message; I just built them. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] The release process
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 1, 2008, at 5:37 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: >> With apologies to Anthony, welease is crack. I made pretty good >> progress once I ditched it and starting doing things manually. >> Between now and the next alpha I intend to work on a command line >> script to help with releases. If you're interested in helping, let >> me know. > > I guess every release manager is free to come up with his own set of > tools, but I feel you've given up too quickly (or started too late - > perhaps a test release run a few days before the release would have > helped). Maybe. > In any case, I'm willing to help with welease, but not with yet > another > release tool. If you primarily complain about the GUIness of welease, > I could help with a command line version of it. The dependency on gtk is unnecessary and means it can effectively only be run on Linux. Specifically it means I can't do releases on OS X. I don't see much benefit in having a gui tool for doing releases. Some of the problems I had include having to run glade3 in order to update the menus which allow you to choose which release you were going to make. It only new about py24 and 25 maintenance. No knock on Anthony there, since those are the releases he had to make, but I shouldn't have to edit the interface description files to add new release versions. Also, the scheme to compare IDLE versions seemed way off. Maybe that's another thing that makes sense for py24 and py25 but it definitely didn't work for py30. The much more serious problem, and where I stopped, is that welease broke on code containing the with statement. I don't remember the details because at that point I was pretty tired and hadn't made any progress on the releases, but I /think/ the problem is that welease runs on a different version of Python than it's checking so it can't handle syntactic differences and such. The kind of tool I think we need is a fairly straightforward command line tool, but one that would not just check that things are done, but also do them. E.g. the tool would keep track of all the little places where version numbers and copyright years need updating. The tool would actually make those changes, and using $EDITOR would show them to you for confirmation. It would pause at steps that require coordination, such as when things need to be committed or signed, or when you're waiting from input from others. It would have a dry-run mode and it would fairly closely follow PEP 101. Anyway, that's the kind of tool I plan on building (or perhaps with help from others -- hi Benjamin) for the next alpha round. Cheers, - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR8ngyHEjvBPtnXfVAQKYaAP+JzIj8HiwVYIJLMyxh+Glq57YQozOh2bB XILPBwUyppBBkezcT6IWAnawo5YUGXwg1tJjS/OsqSnIoajnRQCzzR6X896qXUAn asgXKTydmf553iSD03OG4K38UsdeD6uPUWN9zg/bceKaH2GM72p6md3Wepof4DuE UdTGgXENXOI= =uKmC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] The release process
Martin v. Löwis wrote: > I guess every release manager is free to come up with his own set of > tools, but I feel you've given up too quickly (or started too late - > perhaps a test release run a few days before the release would have > helped). > > In any case, I'm willing to help with welease, but not with yet another > release tool. If you primarily complain about the GUIness of welease, > I could help with a command line version of it. [python dev only] It may sound like a dumb question by why do we need a release tool at all? I was involved in the release process of 3.0a2. Almost every step of the build process required human interaction. I don't want to diminish the effort that was put into welease though. But maybe (!) the same time spent for fixing some bugs would have helped the RM more. Christian ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] The release process
> It may sound like a dumb question by why do we need a release tool at > all? I was involved in the release process of 3.0a2. Almost every step > of the build process required human interaction. I don't want to > diminish the effort that was put into welease though. But maybe (!) the > same time spent for fixing some bugs would have helped the RM more. I think you underestimate the number of changes that the RM needs to make manually, the the ease at which some of these steps get forgotten. Just take a look at the changes in r60911 and r60913, or r61144, r61147, r61150, r61151. Would you have found and remembered all the changes necessary? It helps *tremendously* if a tool tells you that you didn't miss any of the mechanic edits. Then, it also helps if the tool performs some of the mechanic steps, like: - tagging the tree (would you get the svn command line right the first time?) - exporting the tree, and creating the tar files (would you remember to touch the AST files that need more recent time stamps than their respective sources?) - uploading the tar files to dinsdale (do you remember the path on dinsdale the files need to go to?) Barry apparently wants it to go even further, making many of the edits for you. Creating the Windows installer is comparatively much less error-prone (although I do sometimes forget to update Python/sysmodule.c when I switch my sandbox to the release tag). Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] The release process
Barry> The dependency on gtk is unnecessary and means it can effectively Barry> only be run on Linux. Specifically it means I can't do releases Barry> on OS X. I don't see much benefit in having a gui tool for doing Barry> releases. Gtk and Glade are available through MacPorts, at least according to "port search ...". Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] No releases tonight
On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > > I also propose translations of the shorter text to important languages > > like French, German, Japanese, Portuguese and Spanish. I'm willing to > > help with the German translation. > > Cool, thanks. I'd like to volunteer for Italian (and we, the Italian Python community, do have reasonably good connections to the Italian technical press, which is covering e.g. the upcoming Pycon Due conference), and although my French is VERY rusty I can give it a try if no native French speaker is forthcoming. Alex ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] C-API status of Python 3?
On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 12:14 PM, Christian Heimes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > The 3.0 API isn't stable yet. I plan to rename some of the functions > before the first beta is released. Currently the naming schema is too > confusing: > > PyUnicode - str > PyString - bytes > PyBytes - bytearray > > See? :) Yep, but please do keep the PyUnicode for str and PyString for bytes (as macros/synonnyms of PyStr and PyBytes if you want!-) to help the task of porting existing extensions... the bytearray functions should no doubt be PyBytearray, though. Alex ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] The release process
Christian Heimes writes: > It may sound like a dumb question by why do we need a release tool > at all? I was involved in the release process of 3.0a2. Almost > every step of the build process required human interaction. Interaction, yes, but often it can be reduced to "Abort, retry, fail?" > I don't want to diminish the effort that was put into welease > though. But maybe (!) the same time spent for fixing some bugs > would have helped the RM more. Which RM? Barry was hoping to get some useful process support at very low cost; that apparently didn't work out. But welease "is" Anthony's RM process, and surely it he considered it an investment in on-going quality or efficiency, or he wouldn't have done it. The fact that Barry found Anthony's process unusable is IMO not a reflection on either Barry or Anthony's code. Release processes seem to be highly personal, even within the same project. My own project (XEmacs) has 3 concurrent processes going at any one time (stable core, unstable core, stdlib). In my time with the project, stable core has seen two RM successions, unstable core has seen four, and stdlib has seen two. In no case did the new RM adopt the tools of any of his predecessors, but in two cases one person was a successor twice, and in both cases they reverted to their old tools. All processes seem to have been of roughly the same quality (my opinion, there are no metrics available). Been-there-done-that-shredded-the-T-shirt-in-the-process-ly y'rs, ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] C-API status of Python 3?
Christian Heimes wrote: > Stefan Behnel wrote: >> I would like to know how stable the C-API of Python 3 is, or what the >> expected >> release level (beta?) would be at which I can expect it to stabilise. What is >> the plan here? The release schedule in PEP 3000 says "August 2008" for 3.0 final, is that still the current goal? Can I expect the C-API to stabilise by June, then? That's where we are planning a Cython workshop with a couple of sprints. Py3k support might be worth targeting - if we can rely on a fixed target by then. >> The background is Cython, which will need to support Python 3 one day or >> another, so I wanted to know from which point on it will make sense to start >> thinking about a migration plan. > > The 3.0 API isn't stable yet. I plan to rename some of the functions > before the first beta is released. Currently the naming schema is too > confusing: > > PyUnicode - str > PyString - bytes > PyBytes - bytearray > > See? :) I see. :) I actually expect the string semantics to be amongst the harder changes (at least, it's the most visible from a C-API point of view). However, names are not a big problem if you generate code anyway. Behaviour is what matters most for Cython. And we're already trying to adapt Cython's syntax to Py3k's, although that's not a requirement in all cases, as Cython lives with a couple of differences already. Keeping old syntax around and mapping it to the new C-API makes it easier to migrate existing Cython code. Hmmm, I even guess that the biggest problem might be porting Cython itself... > The documentation for the PyString functions is outdated and IIRC the > PyBytes docs are non existing. Ok, so I guess it would at least be a good idea to wait for the docs to be fixed, then. Thanks, Stefan ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] RELEASED Python 2.6a1 and 3.0a3
Barry Warsaw wrote: > On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm > happy to announce the first alpha release of Python 2.6, and the third > alpha release of Python 3.0. Cool! :) But how comes the release notes for Python 3a3 on the download site are the same as for 3a2? Stefan ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] No releases tonight
On 3/1/08, Christian Heimes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > When 3.0a2 was released I contacted two larger German IT news sites. Non > of them even bother to reply. :/ > > I propose that we provide two official texts for the press. A shorter > text which explains Python and the most important changes since the last > version in a few paragraphs and a longer, more detailed text like > Martin's text for the 2.5.2 release. > > I also propose translations of the shorter text to important languages > like French, German, Japanese, Portuguese and Spanish. I'm willing to > help with the German translation. I'm ready to translate this documents in Russian and submit it to two or three Russian it-related news site. -- Pavel Vinogradov NixDev.Net, Linux Developer ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] The release process
Barry Warsaw schrieb: > PEP 101 is sorely out of date, especially with regards to updating web > content and the Python documentation. I think I now know how to > update the python.org web site, but the new Python documentation > format is still a mystery to me. If someone would like to help update > PEP 101 for the documentation steps, please let me know. Well, it's not very hard to guess who this someone is, is it? I've updated PEP 101, except for the part where the docs are uploaded to the website, I've no idea if the FTP paths etc. are still valid. For the next releases, if you want to do documentation packages, please feel free to contact me, I'll be happy to help! Georg -- Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less. Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] No releases tonight
I'll volunteer to do a French translation of the release. -- Cheers, Hasan Diwan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
