[Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
Hello, Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test suite didn't help when porting). I would like to take the opportunity to improve the API a bit; no heavy re-architecting, but simply a bunch of changes to make it higher-level. Is it acceptable? (and, yes, I would add a test suite) Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On 14/09/2010 11:17, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Hello, Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test suite didn't help when porting). I would like to take the opportunity to improve the API a bit; no heavy re-architecting, but simply a bunch of changes to make it higher-level. Is it acceptable? (and, yes, I would add a test suite) Given that backwards incompatible changes are likely to be unavoidable due to the bytes / str issue, taking the opportunity to cleanup and improve the API sounds great. Just a shame we didn't get to it for 3.0, but thank you for picking this up. Michael Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/fuzzyman%40voidspace.org.uk -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (”BOGUS AGREEMENTS”) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > Hello, > > Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of > various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test suite didn't > help when porting). > > I would like to take the opportunity to improve the API a bit; no heavy > re-architecting, but simply a bunch of changes to make it higher-level. > Is it acceptable? > > (and, yes, I would add a test suite) This is the kind of question that's hard to answer in the abstract. In principle it sounds like a reasonable idea, but in practice, if the old API works correctly for 7-bit ASCII, it should probably remain available (even if it's nominally broken for Unicode and 8-bit ASCII). Adding a higher level API is almost certainly fine. Removing the old lower level APIs is more questionable, and will likely depend on precisely how broken they are. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | [email protected] | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test Antoine> suite didn't help when porting). How heavily used is nntp these days (unless you're looking for spam)? Would it make more sense to find someone willing to maintain it outside the Python core and just remove it altogether? Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:30:14 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of > > various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test suite didn't > > help when porting). > > > > I would like to take the opportunity to improve the API a bit; no heavy > > re-architecting, but simply a bunch of changes to make it higher-level. > > Is it acceptable? > > > > (and, yes, I would add a test suite) > > This is the kind of question that's hard to answer in the abstract. In > principle it sounds like a reasonable idea, but in practice, if the > old API works correctly for 7-bit ASCII, it should probably remain > available (even if it's nominally broken for Unicode and 8-bit ASCII). The current module is broken in py3k. I suppose it is still usable for things like fetching group descriptions, but you can't e.g. read articles: http://bugs.python.org/issue7644 Also, http://bugs.python.org/issue9360 mentions that API changes were discussed by Brett and the OP at EuroPython (I wasn't there): “Change API methods to return strings instead of bytes. This breaks API compatibility, but given that the parameters need to be passed as strings and many of the returned values would need to be passed to other API methods, I consider the current API to be broken. I've discussed this with Brett at the EuroPython sprint, and he agrees.” My changes build on the patch proposed on this issue and add further enhancements. Yes, the new API could be checked in as "nntplib2" instead. I am a bit uneasy with that, though, since 1) the original nntplib would still be broken 2) the changes I have in mind don't seem enough to warrant such a grandiloquent naming :-) Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
[email protected] a écrit : Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test Antoine> suite didn't help when porting). How heavily used is nntp these days (unless you're looking for spam)? Would it make more sense to find someone willing to maintain it outside the Python core and just remove it altogether? Skip Reading this from GMANE ;-) ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 05:31:16 -0500 [email protected] wrote: > > Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of > Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test > Antoine> suite didn't help when porting). > > How heavily used is nntp these days (unless you're looking for spam)? Routinely, for example I'm posting this through NNTP on news.gmane.org :) Of course the need for a working NNTP library is much less than for a working email package. I'm doing this because it scratches an itch, not because I need it for myself. > Would > it make more sense to find someone willing to maintain it outside the Python > core and just remove it altogether? That someone remains to be found (it would not be me). Also, since the NNTP protocol itself doesn't seem to see massive changes, it makes sense to keep an implementation in the stdlib. Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > The current module is broken in py3k. I suppose it is still usable for > things like fetching group descriptions, but you can't e.g. read > articles: > http://bugs.python.org/issue7644 > > Also, http://bugs.python.org/issue9360 mentions that API changes were > discussed by Brett and the OP at EuroPython (I wasn't there): > > “Change API methods to return strings instead of bytes. This breaks API > compatibility, but given that the parameters need to be passed as > strings and many of the returned values would need to be passed to > other API methods, I consider the current API to be broken. I've > discussed this with Brett at the EuroPython sprint, and he agrees.” > > My changes build on the patch proposed on this issue and add further > enhancements. Given the additional explanation, tidying up the API sounds like a reasonable way forward to me. Some notes either in the docs or on the wiki regarding how to port from the 2.x API to the 3.x API will be useful though. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | [email protected] | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:44:30PM +0200, Baptiste Carvello wrote: > >Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of > >Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test > >Antoine> suite didn't help when porting). > > > >How heavily used is nntp these days (unless you're looking for spam)? Would > >it make more sense to find someone willing to maintain it outside the Python > >core and just remove it altogether? > > > Reading this from GMANE ;-) I guess, Skip's question or intention was, how often nntplib as a module is being used these days to write scripts/tools or clients? Very rarely. It would definitely be interesting to know, if there are python applications out there which are using nntplib at the moment. -- Senthil ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On 14/09/2010 12:04, Senthil Kumaran wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:44:30PM +0200, Baptiste Carvello wrote: Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test Antoine> suite didn't help when porting). How heavily used is nntp these days (unless you're looking for spam)? Would it make more sense to find someone willing to maintain it outside the Python core and just remove it altogether? Reading this from GMANE ;-) I guess, Skip's question or intention was, how often nntplib as a module is being used these days to write scripts/tools or clients? Very rarely. It would definitely be interesting to know, if there are python applications out there which are using nntplib at the moment. Google code search shows a *few* uses. Most occurences are projects that include Python sources, but there are a handful that use it. e.g. sinntp http://sinntp.googlecode.com/hg/ Search url: http://www.google.com/codesearch?as_q=nntplib&btnG=Search+Code&hl=&as_package=&as_lang=python&as_filename=&as_class=&as_function=&as_license=&as_case= Of course *every* standard library module will have *some* users. The question is whether or not a handful of users justifies something being in the standard library. If it was proposed as a new package then we probably wouldn't want it, but as we already have it then making it *work* is a different matter... :-) All the best, Michael Foord -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (”BOGUS AGREEMENTS”) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Senthil Kumaran wrote: > I guess, Skip's question or intention was, how often nntplib as a > module is being used these days to write scripts/tools or clients? > Very rarely. > > It would definitely be interesting to know, if there are python > applications out there which are using nntplib at the moment. It isn't a huge number, but not all of the results here are copies of Python standard library: http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&start=10&sa=N&q=nntplib+lang:python Not comprehensive of course, and it doesn't tell us how active these projects are, but it does indicate the real world use is greater than zero. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | [email protected] | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On 14/09/2010 12:14, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Senthil Kumaran wrote: I guess, Skip's question or intention was, how often nntplib as a module is being used these days to write scripts/tools or clients? Very rarely. It would definitely be interesting to know, if there are python applications out there which are using nntplib at the moment. It isn't a huge number, but not all of the results here are copies of Python standard library: http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&start=10&sa=N&q=nntplib+lang:python Not comprehensive of course, and it doesn't tell us how active these projects are, but it does indicate the real world use is greater than zero. Interestingly one of the uses is mailman, which uses it for its nntp gateway maintenance. Michael Cheers, Nick. -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (”BOGUS AGREEMENTS”) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:10:54PM +0100, Michael Foord wrote: > But as we already have it then making it *work* is a different matter... :-) Of course, I buy this argument. :) I am +1 on improving the nntplib in py3k, but if we have real world users raising bug reports and asking particular changes/improvements, it would be all the more useful. I see that Antoine referenced some bug reports.. -- Senthil ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On 9/14/2010 7:10 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > On 14/09/2010 12:04, Senthil Kumaran wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:44:30PM +0200, Baptiste Carvello wrote: Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test Antoine> suite didn't help when porting). How heavily used is nntp these days (unless you're looking for spam)? Would it make more sense to find someone willing to maintain it outside the Python core and just remove it altogether? >>> Reading this from GMANE ;-) >> I guess, Skip's question or intention was, how often nntplib as a >> module is being used these days to write scripts/tools or clients? >> Very rarely. >> >> It would definitely be interesting to know, if there are python >> applications out there which are using nntplib at the moment. >> > Google code search shows a *few* uses. Most occurences are projects that > include Python sources, but there are a handful that use it. e.g. sinntp > > http://sinntp.googlecode.com/hg/ > > Search url: > > http://www.google.com/codesearch?as_q=nntplib&btnG=Search+Code&hl=&as_package=&as_lang=python&as_filename=&as_class=&as_function=&as_license=&as_case= > > > Of course *every* standard library module will have *some* users. The > question is whether or not a handful of users justifies something being > in the standard library. If it was proposed as a new package then we > probably wouldn't want it, but as we already have it then making it > *work* is a different matter... :-) > > All the best, > > Michael Foord > How many of those uses are in Python 3? How many would break if ported to Python 3? regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] r84775 - peps/trunk/pep-3149.txt
[Antoine Pitrou, 2010-09-13] > > > >I meant how these decisions are implemented. Is there a configure > > >switch (there doesn't seem to be)? Does it require patching Python? > > > > Ah, no. Standard configure switches are used. Debian (inherited by Ubuntu) > > has a post-installation script for Python packages which create the .py > > symlinks and do the byte-compilation. The big win here is that much of this > > can go away now (and in fact there are modifications to this > > post-installation > > script already). > > Ok, so can you explain how the new thing will work (on Debian)? :) we have /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages in sys.path (via patched Lib/site.py). Our python3.1 will use the same directory as well (version in experimental is modified to use tagged extensions). distutils has additional --install-layout command which when set to "deb" uses Debian's locations, if distutils is not used (or --install-layout=deb not set), dh_python3 will move files to the right location at (package's) build time (and rename .so files) > Does it mean that e.g. /usr/lib/python3.2/site-packages will get > symlinked to /usr/lib/python? no, /usr/lib/python3.2/site-packages is not used at all (we don't use "site-packages" anymore to avoid conflicts with local installations of Python. /usr/lib/python3.2/dist-packages on the other hand is still in sys.path, but I'm not sure what we'll do with it (we still have to figure out what to do with modules that work with 3.2 only and cannot be patched due to f.e. from __future__ imports) -- Piotr Ożarowski Debian GNU/Linux Developer www.ozarowski.pl www.griffith.cc www.debian.org GPG Fingerprint: 1D2F A898 58DA AF62 1786 2DF7 AEF6 F1A2 A745 7645 ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On 14/09/2010 12:47, Steve Holden wrote: On 9/14/2010 7:10 AM, Michael Foord wrote: On 14/09/2010 12:04, Senthil Kumaran wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:44:30PM +0200, Baptiste Carvello wrote: Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test Antoine> suite didn't help when porting). How heavily used is nntp these days (unless you're looking for spam)? Would it make more sense to find someone willing to maintain it outside the Python core and just remove it altogether? Reading this from GMANE ;-) I guess, Skip's question or intention was, how often nntplib as a module is being used these days to write scripts/tools or clients? Very rarely. It would definitely be interesting to know, if there are python applications out there which are using nntplib at the moment. Google code search shows a *few* uses. Most occurences are projects that include Python sources, but there are a handful that use it. e.g. sinntp http://sinntp.googlecode.com/hg/ Search url: http://www.google.com/codesearch?as_q=nntplib&btnG=Search+Code&hl=&as_package=&as_lang=python&as_filename=&as_class=&as_function=&as_license=&as_case= Of course *every* standard library module will have *some* users. The question is whether or not a handful of users justifies something being in the standard library. If it was proposed as a new package then we probably wouldn't want it, but as we already have it then making it *work* is a different matter... :-) All the best, Michael Foord How many of those uses are in Python 3? How many would break if ported to Python 3? Given that nntplib *doesn't work* with Python 3, I would guess none. :-) Michael regards Steve -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (”BOGUS AGREEMENTS”) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On 9/14/2010 9:36 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > On 14/09/2010 12:47, Steve Holden wrote: >> On 9/14/2010 7:10 AM, Michael Foord wrote: >>> On 14/09/2010 12:04, Senthil Kumaran wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:44:30PM +0200, Baptiste Carvello wrote: >> Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken >> (because of >> Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a >> test >> Antoine> suite didn't help when porting). >> >> How heavily used is nntp these days (unless you're looking for >> spam)? Would >> it make more sense to find someone willing to maintain it outside >> the Python >> core and just remove it altogether? >> > Reading this from GMANE ;-) I guess, Skip's question or intention was, how often nntplib as a module is being used these days to write scripts/tools or clients? Very rarely. It would definitely be interesting to know, if there are python applications out there which are using nntplib at the moment. >>> Google code search shows a *few* uses. Most occurences are projects that >>> include Python sources, but there are a handful that use it. e.g. sinntp >>> >>> http://sinntp.googlecode.com/hg/ >>> >>> Search url: >>> >>> http://www.google.com/codesearch?as_q=nntplib&btnG=Search+Code&hl=&as_package=&as_lang=python&as_filename=&as_class=&as_function=&as_license=&as_case= >>> >>> >>> >>> Of course *every* standard library module will have *some* users. The >>> question is whether or not a handful of users justifies something being >>> in the standard library. If it was proposed as a new package then we >>> probably wouldn't want it, but as we already have it then making it >>> *work* is a different matter... :-) >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Michael Foord >>> >> How many of those uses are in Python 3? How many would break if ported >> to Python 3? > > Given that nntplib *doesn't work* with Python 3, I would guess none. :-) > Quite. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On 9/14/2010 9:36 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > On 14/09/2010 12:47, Steve Holden wrote: >> On 9/14/2010 7:10 AM, Michael Foord wrote: >>> On 14/09/2010 12:04, Senthil Kumaran wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:44:30PM +0200, Baptiste Carvello wrote: >> Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken >> (because of >> Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a >> test >> Antoine> suite didn't help when porting). >> >> How heavily used is nntp these days (unless you're looking for >> spam)? Would >> it make more sense to find someone willing to maintain it outside >> the Python >> core and just remove it altogether? >> > Reading this from GMANE ;-) I guess, Skip's question or intention was, how often nntplib as a module is being used these days to write scripts/tools or clients? Very rarely. It would definitely be interesting to know, if there are python applications out there which are using nntplib at the moment. >>> Google code search shows a *few* uses. Most occurences are projects that >>> include Python sources, but there are a handful that use it. e.g. sinntp >>> >>> http://sinntp.googlecode.com/hg/ >>> >>> Search url: >>> >>> http://www.google.com/codesearch?as_q=nntplib&btnG=Search+Code&hl=&as_package=&as_lang=python&as_filename=&as_class=&as_function=&as_license=&as_case= >>> >>> >>> >>> Of course *every* standard library module will have *some* users. The >>> question is whether or not a handful of users justifies something being >>> in the standard library. If it was proposed as a new package then we >>> probably wouldn't want it, but as we already have it then making it >>> *work* is a different matter... :-) >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Michael Foord >>> >> How many of those uses are in Python 3? How many would break if ported >> to Python 3? > > Given that nntplib *doesn't work* with Python 3, I would guess none. :-) > Sorry - premature send. I imagine a 2to3 component could help with the transition to a new API (this component would normally be disabled). regards Stefve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Sep 14, 2010, at 12:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of >various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test suite didn't >help when porting). > >I would like to take the opportunity to improve the API a bit; no heavy >re-architecting, but simply a bunch of changes to make it higher-level. >Is it acceptable? > >(and, yes, I would add a test suite) Heartily +1. -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Sep 14, 2010, at 07:47 AM, Steve Holden wrote: >How many of those uses are in Python 3? How many would break if ported >to Python 3? How many Python 3 applications in general are there now? It would certainly bum me out if nntplib were removed (rather than improved as Antoine is offering to do) from the stdlib when it comes time to port Mailman to py3k. -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Sep 14, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > On 14/09/2010 11:17, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of >> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test suite >> didn't help when porting). >> >> I would like to take the opportunity to improve the API a bit; no >> heavy re-architecting, but simply a bunch of changes to make it >> higher-level. Is it acceptable? >> >> (and, yes, I would add a test suite) >> > >Given that backwards incompatible changes are likely to be unavoidable >due to the bytes / str issue, taking the opportunity to cleanup and >improve the API sounds great. Just a shame we didn't get to it for >3.0, but thank you for picking this up. A side benefit may be that Antoine finds some clever, useful, and more generally applicable techniques for dealing with byte/strings in these contexts. That would be time well spent, and may transfer to work on the email package too for example. -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 18:58:31 -0400 Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Sep 14, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > > > On 14/09/2010 11:17, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of > >> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test suite > >> didn't help when porting). > >> > >> I would like to take the opportunity to improve the API a bit; no > >> heavy re-architecting, but simply a bunch of changes to make it > >> higher-level. Is it acceptable? > >> > >> (and, yes, I would add a test suite) > >> > > > >Given that backwards incompatible changes are likely to be unavoidable > >due to the bytes / str issue, taking the opportunity to cleanup and > >improve the API sounds great. Just a shame we didn't get to it for > >3.0, but thank you for picking this up. > > A side benefit may be that Antoine finds some clever, useful, and more > generally applicable techniques for dealing with byte/strings in these > contexts. Well... One clever, useful and generally applicable technique I'm currently using is "surrogateescape" combined with RFC 3977's standardization on UTF-8 for non-message data. (thanks Martin!) But I don't think nntplib should implement any message parsing or decoding. Users will have to rely on the email module (or their own code) instead. Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
Baptiste> Reading this from GMANE ;-) I use GMANE too on occasion, but only via the web, as I suppose most people do. I haven't actually used an NNTP-based app like xrn or gnus in probably two decades. Do the GMANE folks publish HTTP v. NNTP statistics for their service? I question if the nntplib module is used enough to warrant inclusion with the rest of the batteries. Not to mention dedication of scarce people resources. Even though Antoine has kindly volunteered to make the necessary changes, I seem to recall that the email package transition took awhile to get right (and already had a reasonable test suite I suspect). There are probably more critical parts of Python he could work on instead (though who's to dispute that Antoine has an NNTP itch?) Finally, is there an application out in the wild using nntplib which is desirous of better NNTP support than Python currently has? We got rid of gopherlib a few years ago (deprecated in 2.5, presumably gone in 2.6). I suspect the NNTP protocol has a greatly diminished user base as well, GMANE's presence notwithstanding. Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On 9/14/2010 12:43 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > Baptiste> Reading this from GMANE ;-) > > I use GMANE too on occasion, but only via the web, as I suppose most people > do. I haven't actually used an NNTP-based app like xrn or gnus in probably > two decades. Do the GMANE folks publish HTTP v. NNTP statistics for their > service? > > I question if the nntplib module is used enough to warrant inclusion with > the rest of the batteries. Not to mention dedication of scarce people > resources. Even though Antoine has kindly volunteered to make the necessary > changes, I seem to recall that the email package transition took awhile to > get right (and already had a reasonable test suite I suspect). There are > probably more critical parts of Python he could work on instead (though > who's to dispute that Antoine has an NNTP itch?) Finally, is there an > application out in the wild using nntplib which is desirous of better NNTP > support than Python currently has? > > We got rid of gopherlib a few years ago (deprecated in 2.5, presumably gone > in 2.6). I suspect the NNTP protocol has a greatly diminished user base as > well, GMANE's presence notwithstanding. > > Skip The fact that Mailman will need it would alone outweigh all those considerations in my mind. regards Steve PS: I read c.l.py-dev using NNTP from Thunderbird. Why anyone bothers with these web interfaces is beyond me ... PPS: What makes you think the email package transition is complete? -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Sep 14, 2010, at 02:01 PM, Steve Holden wrote: >The fact that Mailman will need it would alone outweigh all those >considerations in my mind. /me makes the check out to Mr. Holden. >PS: I read c.l.py-dev using NNTP from Thunderbird. Why anyone bothers >with these web interfaces is beyond me ... I'll note one other thing. Mailman 3 intends[*] to provide NNTP access directly to its archives, exactly because IMO it's so much better to read old mail that way. >PPS: What makes you think the email package transition is complete? Heh. -Barry [0] 'round tuits willing signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
I'm +1 for Antoine to go ahead and do what he wants; the module is busted as-is and I trust him to make a good judgement call. But I wanted to specifically reply to Skip about removal. On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 09:43, wrote: > > Baptiste> Reading this from GMANE ;-) > > I use GMANE too on occasion, but only via the web, as I suppose most people > do. I haven't actually used an NNTP-based app like xrn or gnus in probably > two decades. Do the GMANE folks publish HTTP v. NNTP statistics for their > service? > > I question if the nntplib module is used enough to warrant inclusion with > the rest of the batteries. Not to mention dedication of scarce people > resources. Even though Antoine has kindly volunteered to make the necessary > changes, I seem to recall that the email package transition took awhile to > get right (and already had a reasonable test suite I suspect). There are > probably more critical parts of Python he could work on instead (though > who's to dispute that Antoine has an NNTP itch?) Finally, is there an > application out in the wild using nntplib which is desirous of better NNTP > support than Python currently has? Because it is Antoine and not some random person offering to clean this up I see no need to remove the module. For other modules that turn out to be severely str/bytes broken at this point and does not have a proven core developer to maintain it, then I would agree that removing the module, creating a Mercurial repository for the module, and then having a wiki page listing forks of the code so people can find it more maintained would make sense. But I don't think this is such a case. As an aside, I also think that having the module in pure Python makes it also an easier argument to keep around. If this was an extension module I probably would be more for removing it (e.g., avoiding security issues like we have had with audioop, etc.). > > We got rid of gopherlib a few years ago (deprecated in 2.5, presumably gone > in 2.6). I suspect the NNTP protocol has a greatly diminished user base as > well, GMANE's presence notwithstanding. gopherlib was dropped thanks to lack of developer interest. In this case we have interest so that comparison is not 1:1. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
Steve> PS: I read c.l.py-dev using NNTP from Thunderbird. Why anyone Steve> bothers with these web interfaces is beyond me ... Thunderbird is just a special-purpose web browser. ;-) Steve> PPS: What makes you think the email package transition is complete? I didn't mean to suggest that it was complete. I sent my second reply before seeing Barry's reply about Mailman. That's certainly a reasonable use case. Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:43:46AM -0500, [email protected] wrote: > We got rid of gopherlib a few years ago (deprecated in 2.5, presumably gone > in 2.6). I suspect the NNTP protocol has a greatly diminished user base as > well, GMANE's presence notwithstanding. NNTP is *very* considerably less dead than gopher. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On 9/14/2010 4:40 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote: > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:43:46AM -0500, [email protected] wrote: >> We got rid of gopherlib a few years ago (deprecated in 2.5, presumably gone >> in 2.6). I suspect the NNTP protocol has a greatly diminished user base as >> well, GMANE's presence notwithstanding. > > NNTP is *very* considerably less dead than gopher. That's an interesting metric. Would you like to list the extant libraries implementing protocols that are *not* "*very* considerably less dead than gopher"? ;-) regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] 2.6.6 is a release candidate?
Hi All, http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6.6/ ..includes the text: "This is a release candidate; we currently support these formats:" Is that text meant to be there? cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 05:22:59PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote: > On 9/14/2010 4:40 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote: > > NNTP is *very* considerably less dead than gopher. > > That's an interesting metric. Would you like to list the extant > libraries implementing protocols that are *not* "*very* considerably > less dead than gopher"? ;-) Hmm, interesting question. "uu" perhaps? ;-) ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:34:33 +0530, Senthil Kumaran wrote: > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:44:30PM +0200, Baptiste Carvello wrote: > > >Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of > > >Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test > > >Antoine> suite didn't help when porting). > > > > > >How heavily used is nntp these days (unless you're looking for spam)? > > >Would > > >it make more sense to find someone willing to maintain it outside the > > >Python > > >core and just remove it altogether? > > > > > Reading this from GMANE ;-) > > I guess, Skip's question or intention was, how often nntplib as a > module is being used these days to write scripts/tools or clients? > Very rarely. > > It would definitely be interesting to know, if there are python > applications out there which are using nntplib at the moment. You all might find it interesting to know that I'm now maintaining email and working on email6 as a direct consequence of nntplib. I was using it to read mailing lists through gmane, and when I tried to port my nntp tool to Python3 I found that decode_header (among other things) was broken, and as a consequence of talking to Barry about that walked in to the email minefield I'm currently not using my nttp reader, but it is because I couldn't stand working on my client in Python2, I wanted to be using Python3. So I volunteered to help with email...but I figure I'll come back around and help Antoine with nttplib by and by :) --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On 9/14/2010 6:45 PM, R. David Murray wrote: > On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:34:33 +0530, Senthil Kumaran > wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:44:30PM +0200, Baptiste Carvello wrote: Antoine> Like the email package, nntplib in py3k is broken (because of Antoine> various bytes/str mismatches; I suppose the lack of a test Antoine> suite didn't help when porting). How heavily used is nntp these days (unless you're looking for spam)? Would it make more sense to find someone willing to maintain it outside the Python core and just remove it altogether? >>> Reading this from GMANE ;-) >> >> I guess, Skip's question or intention was, how often nntplib as a >> module is being used these days to write scripts/tools or clients? >> Very rarely. >> >> It would definitely be interesting to know, if there are python >> applications out there which are using nntplib at the moment. > > You all might find it interesting to know that I'm now maintaining > email and working on email6 as a direct consequence of nntplib. I was > using it to read mailing lists through gmane, and when I tried to > port my nntp tool to Python3 I found that decode_header (among > other things) was broken, and as a consequence of talking to Barry > about that walked in to the email minefield > > I'm currently not using my nttp reader, but it is because I couldn't > stand working on my client in Python2, I wanted to be using Python3. > So I volunteered to help with email...but I figure I'll come back around > and help Antoine with nttplib by and by :) > And again I say, if anyone knows of any budgets to which this work is important, the PSF will be happy to try and tap these people for money that can help the development effort. Frankly I am a little embarrassed by the poor quality of some library code. I think it shows that the "rush to release" which might not have been in Python's best short-term interests, even though actually getting it out the door was a significant occurrence for the long term.. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Steve Holden wrote: > On 9/14/2010 4:40 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:43:46AM -0500, [email protected] wrote: >>> We got rid of gopherlib a few years ago (deprecated in 2.5, presumably gone >>> in 2.6). I suspect the NNTP protocol has a greatly diminished user base as >>> well, GMANE's presence notwithstanding. >> >> NNTP is *very* considerably less dead than gopher. > > That's an interesting metric. Would you like to list the extant > libraries implementing protocols that are *not* "*very* considerably > less dead than gopher"? ;-) > > regards > Steve I ran some statistics on the number of times modules out of the stdlib got imported a few months ago and came up with a reasonably comprehensive list of the least-used things in the stdlib. For the record, since I wound up parsing import statements and know some garbage data got in, its reasonable to assume that a few otherwise valid imports aren't recorded here. But enough with the disclaimers. I'm not sure what the name of the library was originally, but the word 'gopher' does not appear in any of the imports that I was able to parse in pypi. By contrast, nntplib and poplib are tied at 8, and as would be expected there are only a few recognizable names below that- aepack, aetypes, and posixfile are each stuck at 0; fractions, Bastion, and xdrlib have three, etc. The top five are os, sys, unittest, re, and time (in that order) with 27468, 18334, 14714, 13019, and 9906 imports respectively. If it doesn't annoy I can post the whole list, or email it privately to the interested. Geremy Condra ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On 9/14/2010 11:06 PM, geremy condra wrote: > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Steve Holden wrote: >> On 9/14/2010 4:40 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote: >>> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:43:46AM -0500, [email protected] wrote: We got rid of gopherlib a few years ago (deprecated in 2.5, presumably gone in 2.6). I suspect the NNTP protocol has a greatly diminished user base as well, GMANE's presence notwithstanding. >>> >>> NNTP is *very* considerably less dead than gopher. >> >> That's an interesting metric. Would you like to list the extant >> libraries implementing protocols that are *not* "*very* considerably >> less dead than gopher"? ;-) >> >> regards >> Steve > > I ran some statistics on the number of times modules out of the stdlib > got imported a few months ago and came up with a reasonably > comprehensive list of the least-used things in the stdlib. For the > record, since I wound up parsing import statements and know some > garbage data got in, its reasonable to assume that a few otherwise > valid imports aren't recorded here. But enough with the disclaimers. > > I'm not sure what the name of the library was originally, but the word > 'gopher' does not appear in any of the imports that I was able to > parse in pypi. By contrast, nntplib and poplib are tied at 8, and as > would be expected there are only a few recognizable names below that- > aepack, aetypes, and posixfile are each stuck at 0; fractions, > Bastion, and xdrlib have three, etc. > > The top five are os, sys, unittest, re, and time (in that order) with > 27468, 18334, 14714, 13019, and 9906 imports respectively. > > If it doesn't annoy I can post the whole list, or email it privately > to the interested. > > Geremy Condra > Post it to the list. If people complain, they can complain at me. Thanks very much. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Steve Holden wrote: > On 9/14/2010 11:06 PM, geremy condra wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Steve Holden wrote: >>> On 9/14/2010 4:40 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:43:46AM -0500, [email protected] wrote: > We got rid of gopherlib a few years ago (deprecated in 2.5, presumably > gone > in 2.6). I suspect the NNTP protocol has a greatly diminished user base > as > well, GMANE's presence notwithstanding. NNTP is *very* considerably less dead than gopher. >>> >>> That's an interesting metric. Would you like to list the extant >>> libraries implementing protocols that are *not* "*very* considerably >>> less dead than gopher"? ;-) >>> >>> regards >>> Steve >> >> I ran some statistics on the number of times modules out of the stdlib >> got imported a few months ago and came up with a reasonably >> comprehensive list of the least-used things in the stdlib. For the >> record, since I wound up parsing import statements and know some >> garbage data got in, its reasonable to assume that a few otherwise >> valid imports aren't recorded here. But enough with the disclaimers. >> >> I'm not sure what the name of the library was originally, but the word >> 'gopher' does not appear in any of the imports that I was able to >> parse in pypi. By contrast, nntplib and poplib are tied at 8, and as >> would be expected there are only a few recognizable names below that- >> aepack, aetypes, and posixfile are each stuck at 0; fractions, >> Bastion, and xdrlib have three, etc. >> >> The top five are os, sys, unittest, re, and time (in that order) with >> 27468, 18334, 14714, 13019, and 9906 imports respectively. >> >> If it doesn't annoy I can post the whole list, or email it privately >> to the interested. >> >> Geremy Condra >> > Post it to the list. If people complain, they can complain at me. > > Thanks very much. Ok then, on your head be it ;) 0 AL 0 ColorPicker 0 DEVICE 0 FL 0 FrameWork 0 Nav 0 PixMapWrapper 0 SUNAUDIODEV 0 aepack 0 aetypes 0 al 0 applesingle 0 autoGIL 0 buildtools 0 cd 0 cfmfile 0 dbhash 0 dl 0 dummy_threading 0 findertools 0 flp 0 fm 0 fpectl 0 gensuitemodule 0 icopen 0 imageop 0 imgfile 0 jpeg 0 macerrors 0 macostools 0 macresource 0 nis 0 posixfile 0 spwd 0 sunaudiodev 0 symtable 0 videoreader 0 winsound 1 Tix 1 audioop 2 ic 3 Bastion 3 binhex 3 dumbdbm 3 dummy_thread 3 fractions 3 future_builtins 3 mailcap 3 ossaudiodev 3 tabnanny 3 xdrlib 4 ScrolledText 4 macpath 4 stringprep 5 DocXMLRPCServer 5 GL 5 aifc 5 mimify 5 sunau 6 fl 6 pickletools 6 statvfs 6 turtle 7 W 8 codeop 8 multifile 8 nntplib 8 poplib 8 sndhdr 9 EasyDialogs 9 pipes 9 pyclbr 10 dbm 10 gdbm 10 imputil 11 MiniAEFrame 11 fpformat 11 numbers 14 CGIHTTPServer 14 pty 16 rexec 18 netrc 19 msvcrt 19 uu 20 rlcompleter 21 compileall 22 tty 24 lib2to3 24 mutex 25 chunk 25 mhlib 27 whichdb 28 robotparser 29 ssl 30 dircache 32 gl 33 runpy 34 posix 36 aetools 36 wave 37 termios 42 bdb 44 imaplib 46 ast 47 bsddb 47 imghdr 50 crypt 50 smtpd 53 Carbon 57 MimeWriter 57 msilib 60 cmath 66 filecmp 67 syslog 68 MacOS 73 cProfile 74 asynchat 74 repr 75 ftplib 76 htmllib 83 abc 91 quopri 93 pkgutil 98 anydbm 98 telnetlib 99 trace 102formatter 104__main__ 104readline 105colorsys 110_winreg 111curses 113plistlib 115modulefinder 116UserString 121cookielib 125mailbox 126cgitb 128bz2 128sched 134io 146mimetools 147pydoc 148SimpleXMLRPCServer 154mmap 155user 156site 157symbol 159zipimport 166pstats 172fileinput 173encodings 179py_compile 180SimpleHTTPServer 181profile 183cmd 198Tkinter 200fcntl 206copy_reg 225linecache 226hotshot
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:06 PM, geremy condra wrote: > I ran some statistics on the number of times modules out of the stdlib > got imported a few months ago and came up with a reasonably > comprehensive list of the least-used things in the stdlib. For the > record, since I wound up parsing import statements and know some > garbage data got in, its reasonable to assume that a few otherwise > valid imports aren't recorded here. But enough with the disclaimers. Neat! > I'm not sure what the name of the library was originally, but the word > 'gopher' does not appear in any of the imports that I was able to > parse in pypi. By contrast, nntplib and poplib are tied at 8, and as > would be expected there are only a few recognizable names below that- > aepack, aetypes, and posixfile are each stuck at 0; fractions, > Bastion, and xdrlib have three, etc. > > The top five are os, sys, unittest, re, and time (in that order) with > 27468, 18334, 14714, 13019, and 9906 imports respectively. Looks like we did a poor job naming unittest. The Huffman-encoding seems to have worked well for the others though. > If it doesn't annoy I can post the whole list, or email it privately > to the interested. Do post. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Rework nntlib?
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:06 PM, geremy condra wrote: >> I ran some statistics on the number of times modules out of the stdlib >> got imported a few months ago and came up with a reasonably >> comprehensive list of the least-used things in the stdlib. For the >> record, since I wound up parsing import statements and know some >> garbage data got in, its reasonable to assume that a few otherwise >> valid imports aren't recorded here. But enough with the disclaimers. > > Neat! > >> I'm not sure what the name of the library was originally, but the word >> 'gopher' does not appear in any of the imports that I was able to >> parse in pypi. By contrast, nntplib and poplib are tied at 8, and as >> would be expected there are only a few recognizable names below that- >> aepack, aetypes, and posixfile are each stuck at 0; fractions, >> Bastion, and xdrlib have three, etc. >> >> The top five are os, sys, unittest, re, and time (in that order) with >> 27468, 18334, 14714, 13019, and 9906 imports respectively. > > Looks like we did a poor job naming unittest. The Huffman-encoding > seems to have worked well for the others though. > >> If it doesn't annoy I can post the whole list, or email it privately >> to the interested. > > Do post. Looks like this didn't come through last time. Here you go- 0 AL 0 ColorPicker 0 DEVICE 0 FL 0 FrameWork 0 Nav 0 PixMapWrapper 0 SUNAUDIODEV 0 aepack 0 aetypes 0 al 0 applesingle 0 autoGIL 0 buildtools 0 cd 0 cfmfile 0 dbhash 0 dl 0 dummy_threading 0 findertools 0 flp 0 fm 0 fpectl 0 gensuitemodule 0 icopen 0 imageop 0 imgfile 0 jpeg 0 macerrors 0 macostools 0 macresource 0 nis 0 posixfile 0 spwd 0 sunaudiodev 0 symtable 0 videoreader 0 winsound 1 Tix 1 audioop 2 ic 3 Bastion 3 binhex 3 dumbdbm 3 dummy_thread 3 fractions 3 future_builtins 3 mailcap 3 ossaudiodev 3 tabnanny 3 xdrlib 4 ScrolledText 4 macpath 4 stringprep 5 DocXMLRPCServer 5 GL 5 aifc 5 mimify 5 sunau 6 fl 6 pickletools 6 statvfs 6 turtle 7 W 8 codeop 8 multifile 8 nntplib 8 poplib 8 sndhdr 9 EasyDialogs 9 pipes 9 pyclbr 10 dbm 10 gdbm 10 imputil 11 MiniAEFrame 11 fpformat 11 numbers 14 CGIHTTPServer 14 pty 16 rexec 18 netrc 19 msvcrt 19 uu 20 rlcompleter 21 compileall 22 tty 24 lib2to3 24 mutex 25 chunk 25 mhlib 27 whichdb 28 robotparser 29 ssl 30 dircache 32 gl 33 runpy 34 posix 36 aetools 36 wave 37 termios 42 bdb 44 imaplib 46 ast 47 bsddb 47 imghdr 50 crypt 50 smtpd 53 Carbon 57 MimeWriter 57 msilib 60 cmath 66 filecmp 67 syslog 68 MacOS 73 cProfile 74 asynchat 74 repr 75 ftplib 76 htmllib 83 abc 91 quopri 93 pkgutil 98 anydbm 98 telnetlib 99 trace 102formatter 104__main__ 104readline 105colorsys 110_winreg 111curses 113plistlib 115modulefinder 116UserString 121cookielib 125mailbox 126cgitb 128bz2 128sched 134io 146mimetools 147pydoc 148SimpleXMLRPCServer 154mmap 155user 156site 157symbol 159zipimport 166pstats 172fileinput 173encodings 179py_compile 180SimpleHTTPServer 181profile 183cmd 198Tkinter 200fcntl 206copy_reg 225linecache 226hotshot 234multiprocessing 262dis 273UserList 273resource 287SocketServer 289shelve 297sqlite3 317grp 322asyncore 335timeit 339keyword 345sgmllib 363token 367test 383parser 386shlex 421wsgiref 451contextlib 458unicodedata 471tokenize 472pwd 487webbrowser 526hmac 529heapq 542platform 573gettext 594pdb 597popen2 607json 608marshal 619smtplib 621
