Re: [Python-Dev] Migrating to Python 3: the python 3 install issue
On 4 October 2015 at 03:49, Christian Tismer wrote: > Great, that this finally happens. > > I think this was a silent revolution, initiated by nagging > people, distros and larger companies about how mega-out Python2 is, > until they finally started to believe it ;-) While that was part of it (at least initially), the main impediment on the Linux front turned out to be the sheer amount of work involved, and the number of different projects impacted (without even counting the upstream projects that had already added Python 3 support of their own accord). This meant the employee time investment from Canonical, Red Hat and anyone else that contributed to distro package porting wasn't just in development effort - a fair bit of it was in the politics of getting primarily C/C++ projects that happened to have some Python components to accept the migration patches (even while the developers and other users of those projects were still running Python 2 based distributions themselves), as well as in revising distro packaging policies to mandate Python 3 support for new projects. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] An example of Python 3 promotion attitude
On 6 October 2015 at 21:29, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: > Now I sometimes feel that there is not enough sentiment in python-dev > to distance from such ideas. It *is* python-dev job to promote > python3, but it's also python-dev job sometimes to point out that > whatever helps in promoting the python ecosystem (e.g. in case of pypy > is speed) is a good enough reason to do those things. > > I wonder what are other people ideas about that. It's not generally python-dev's job to promote Python 3 either - folks are here for their own reasons, and that's largely a shared aim of making a better programming language and other tools for our own future use (whatever those use cases may be). The fact that there are lots of *other* people that find those tools useful and helpful (to the point of elevating Python to being one of the most popular programming languages in the world) is a beneficial side effect of doing that work in the open, rather than necessarily being the reason people decide to participate. This is the key difference between community open source projects and commercial products that also happen to be open source - in the latter case, good luck getting anything added that doesn't align with the sponsoring company's plans, while in the community driven case, we don't *have* a pre-defined road map, we have a lot of individual contributors with possible ideas for improvement (occasionally company sponsored, usually not), and a range of processes for reviewing, refining and deciding on whether or not to accept those ideas. That said, those of us that get paid to be here (even part time), typically *do* have a significant obligation not to leave current Python 2 users behind, hence the extended lifecycle for the 2.7 series, and the ongoing work in lowering barriers to migration from Python 2 to Python 3. Those of us working for commercial redistributors (depending on our specific role) are also likely to have at least some obligation to our customers to help them understand the implications of the migration, and assure them that we'll help them manage the shift in a minimally disruptive way. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] An example of Python 3 promotion attitude
> On Oct 7, 2015, at 7:12 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 6 October 2015 at 21:29, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: >> Now I sometimes feel that there is not enough sentiment in python-dev >> to distance from such ideas. It *is* python-dev job to promote >> python3, but it's also python-dev job sometimes to point out that >> whatever helps in promoting the python ecosystem (e.g. in case of pypy >> is speed) is a good enough reason to do those things. >> >> I wonder what are other people ideas about that. > > It's not generally python-dev's job to promote Python 3 either - folks > are here for their own reasons, and that's largely a shared aim of > making a better programming language and other tools for our own > future use (whatever those use cases may be). I concur. Our responsibilities are to make Python 3 into an effective tool that makes people *want* to adopt it and to be honest with anyone who asks us about the pros and cons of switching over. Raymond ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
