Re: [Python-ideas] Make functions, methods and descriptor types living in the types module

[Guido van Rossum]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Steve Dower  wrote:

> I certainly have code that joins __module__ with __name__ to create a
> fully-qualified name (with special handling for those builtins that are not
> in builtins), and IIUC __qualname__ doesn't normally include the module
> name either (it's intended for nested types/functions).
>

In fact __qualname__ should never include the module. It should however
include the containing class(es). E.g. for

# __main__.py:
class Outer:
  class Inner:
def f(self): pass

print(Outer.Inner.f.__name__)  # 'f'
print(Outer.Inner.f.__qualname__)  # 'Outer.Inner.f'
print(Outer.Inner.f.__module__)  # '__main__'

IMO the current __module__ for these objects is just wrong (since they
aren't in builtins -- even though they are "built in"). So in principle it
should be okay to set it to 'types'. (Except I wish we didn't have the
types module at all, but that's water under the bridge.)

In practice I expect there to be some failing tests. Maybe investigate this
for Python 3.8?


> Can we make it visible when you import the builtins module, but not in the
> builtins namespace?
>

That would violate the very definition of the builtins module.

PS. There are probably many more of these. E.g. NoneType, dict_keys, etc.

--Guido

On 12Jan2018 0941, Victor Stinner wrote:
>
>> I like the idea of having a fully qualified name that "works" (can be
>> resolved).
>>
>> I don't think that repr() should change, right?
>>
>> Can this change break the backward compatibility somehow?
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> Le 11 janv. 2018 21:00, "Serhiy Storchaka" > > a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Currently the classes of functions (implemented in Python and
>> builtin), methods, and different type of descriptors, generators,
>> etc have the __module__ attribute equal to "builtins"  and the name
>> that can't be used for accessing the class.
>>
>> >>> def f(): pass
>> ...
>> >>> type(f)
>> 
>> >>> type(f).__module__
>> 'builtins'
>> >>> type(f).__name__
>> 'function'
>> >>> type(f).__qualname__
>> 'function'
>> >>> import builtins
>> >>> builtins.function
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "", line 1, in 
>> AttributeError: module 'builtins' has no attribute 'function'
>>
>> But most of this classes (if not all) are exposed in the types module.
>>
>> I suggest to rename them. Make the __module__ attribute equal to
>> "builtins" and the __name__ and the __qualname__ attributes equal to
>> the name used for accessing the class in the types module.
>>
>> This would allow to pickle references to these types. Currently this
>> isn't possible.
>>
>> >>> pickle.dumps(types.FunctionType)
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "", line 1, in 
>> _pickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle : attribute
>> lookup function on builtins failed
>>
>> And this will help to implement the pickle support of dynamic
>> functions etc. Currently the third-party library that implements
>> this needs to use a special purposed factory function (not
>> compatible with other similar libraries) since types.FunctionType
>> isn't pickleable.
>>
>
-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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Re: [Python-ideas] Make functions, methods and descriptor types living in the types module

[Random832]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018, at 17:41, Victor Stinner wrote:
> I like the idea of having a fully qualified name that "works" (can be
> resolved).
> 
> I don't think that repr() should change, right?

What if we made these types available under their current name in the types 
module? e.g. types.module, types.function, etc.
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Re: [Python-ideas] Make functions, methods and descriptor types living in the types module

[Steve Dower]

I certainly have code that joins __module__ with __name__ to create a 
fully-qualified name (with special handling for those builtins that are 
not in builtins), and IIUC __qualname__ doesn't normally include the 
module name either (it's intended for nested types/functions).


Can we make it visible when you import the builtins module, but not in 
the builtins namespace?


Cheers,
Steve

On 12Jan2018 0941, Victor Stinner wrote:

I like the idea of having a fully qualified name that "works" (can be
resolved).

I don't think that repr() should change, right?

Can this change break the backward compatibility somehow?

Victor

Le 11 janv. 2018 21:00, "Serhiy Storchaka" > a écrit :

Currently the classes of functions (implemented in Python and
builtin), methods, and different type of descriptors, generators,
etc have the __module__ attribute equal to "builtins"  and the name
that can't be used for accessing the class.

>>> def f(): pass
...
>>> type(f)

>>> type(f).__module__
'builtins'
>>> type(f).__name__
'function'
>>> type(f).__qualname__
'function'
>>> import builtins
>>> builtins.function
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
AttributeError: module 'builtins' has no attribute 'function'

But most of this classes (if not all) are exposed in the types module.

I suggest to rename them. Make the __module__ attribute equal to
"builtins" and the __name__ and the __qualname__ attributes equal to
the name used for accessing the class in the types module.

This would allow to pickle references to these types. Currently this
isn't possible.

>>> pickle.dumps(types.FunctionType)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
_pickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle : attribute
lookup function on builtins failed

And this will help to implement the pickle support of dynamic
functions etc. Currently the third-party library that implements
this needs to use a special purposed factory function (not
compatible with other similar libraries) since types.FunctionType
isn't pickleable.


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Re: [Python-ideas] Make functions, methods and descriptor types living in the types module

[Victor Stinner]

I like the idea of having a fully qualified name that "works" (can be
resolved).

I don't think that repr() should change, right?

Can this change break the backward compatibility somehow?

Victor

Le 11 janv. 2018 21:00, "Serhiy Storchaka"  a écrit :

> Currently the classes of functions (implemented in Python and builtin),
> methods, and different type of descriptors, generators, etc have the
> __module__ attribute equal to "builtins"  and the name that can't be used
> for accessing the class.
>
> >>> def f(): pass
> ...
> >>> type(f)
> 
> >>> type(f).__module__
> 'builtins'
> >>> type(f).__name__
> 'function'
> >>> type(f).__qualname__
> 'function'
> >>> import builtins
> >>> builtins.function
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> AttributeError: module 'builtins' has no attribute 'function'
>
> But most of this classes (if not all) are exposed in the types module.
>
> I suggest to rename them. Make the __module__ attribute equal to
> "builtins" and the __name__ and the __qualname__ attributes equal to the
> name used for accessing the class in the types module.
>
> This would allow to pickle references to these types. Currently this isn't
> possible.
>
> >>> pickle.dumps(types.FunctionType)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> _pickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle : attribute lookup
> function on builtins failed
>
> And this will help to implement the pickle support of dynamic functions
> etc. Currently the third-party library that implements this needs to use a
> special purposed factory function (not compatible with other similar
> libraries) since types.FunctionType isn't pickleable.
>
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>
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[Python-ideas] Make functions, methods and descriptor types living in the types module

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Currently the classes of functions (implemented in Python and builtin), 
methods, and different type of descriptors, generators, etc have the 
__module__ attribute equal to "builtins"  and the name that can't be 
used for accessing the class.


>>> def f(): pass
...
>>> type(f)

>>> type(f).__module__
'builtins'
>>> type(f).__name__
'function'
>>> type(f).__qualname__
'function'
>>> import builtins
>>> builtins.function
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
AttributeError: module 'builtins' has no attribute 'function'

But most of this classes (if not all) are exposed in the types module.

I suggest to rename them. Make the __module__ attribute equal to 
"builtins" and the __name__ and the __qualname__ attributes equal to the 
name used for accessing the class in the types module.


This would allow to pickle references to these types. Currently this 
isn't possible.


>>> pickle.dumps(types.FunctionType)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
_pickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle : attribute lookup 
function on builtins failed


And this will help to implement the pickle support of dynamic functions 
etc. Currently the third-party library that implements this needs to use 
a special purposed factory function (not compatible with other similar 
libraries) since types.FunctionType isn't pickleable.


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