Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry

[Roedy Green]

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:40:26 GMT, Tim Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  wrote
or quoted :

>I didn't think unicode domain names existed.

you can even buy them. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/domainnames.html

under "Chinese Domain Names".
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Re: Vim capable IDE?

[bruno modulix]

Chris Lasher wrote:
> Hello,
>   Is there a Python-sensitive, Linux compatible IDE out there with
> standard bells and whistles (source browser, symbolic debugger, etc.)
> but with the action-per-keystroke editing capabilities of Vim? I have
> failed to turn up such an IDE in my Googling and IDE project-page
> browsing. :-(

What about a Python IDE that embed Vim as it's editor ?
http://pida.berlios.de/index.php/Main_Page

HTH
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global interpreter lock

[Tommy . Ryding]

I just need confirmation that I think right.

Is the files thread_xxx.h (xxx = nt, os2 or whatever) responsible for
the
global interpreter lock in a multithreaded environment?

I'm currently writing my own thread_VW for VxWorks, thats why I'm
asking. 

//Tommy

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Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry

[Tim Tyler]

Gordon Burditt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote or quoted:

> Before worrying about the possible bugs in the implementations,
> worry about security issues present in the *DESIGN*.  Email ought
> to be usable to carry out a conversation *SAFELY* with some person out
> to get you.  Thus features like this are dangerous (in the *design*,
> not because they *might* hide a buffer-overflow exploit):
> 
> - Hyperlinks to anything *outside* the email in which the link
>   resides ("web bugs").

Acceptable risk, IMO.

> - Any ability to automatically generate hits on sender-specified
>   servers when the email is read.

I hadn't though of that one.  As well as use in DDOS attacks, that
can help let spammers know if they have reached a human :-|

Even a link in a plain text email can be used (though with reduced
effectiveness) in such a context :-(
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Re: UI toolkits for Python

[Alex Martelli]

Paul Rubin  wrote:

> Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Because everybody is capable of running a JS engine, even on
> > computers on which you don't have rights to install something.
> 
> I don't think using JS so heavily without a compelling reason is
> really in the WWW spirit.  Lots of browsers don't have JS.  And lots
> of JS is so annoying that some users like to turn it off even in
> browsers that have it.

I don't have the exact numbers, and I'm pretty certain they'd be
confidential if I did, but I believe the factors you mention (browsers
completely lacking JS, and users turning JS off), *combined*, still
allow JS-rich interfaces to run for well over 95% of visitors to our
sites.  Maybe that's the key difference between the mindset of a
mathematician and that of an engineer -- I consider reaching over 95% of
visitors to be _quite good indeed_, while you appear to disagree because
of "WWW spirit" issues.  Is making a rapidly responsive site (not
requiring roundtrips for every interaction) a "compelling reason"?  It
seems to me that it is -- and why else would one use ANY Javascript,
after all?

My one issue with the JS/AJAX mania is that I really dislike JS as a
language, particularly when you take the mixed mongrel dialect that you
do need to reach all the various browsers and releases needed to make
that 95% goal.  But, alas, there is really no alternative!-(


Alex
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Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry

[Tim Tyler]

In comp.lang.java.programmer Ross Bamford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote or quoted:

> Roedy, I would just _love_ to see the response from the industry when you  
> tell them they should dump their whole mail infrastructure, and switch  
> over to a whole new system (new protocols, new security holes, new  
> problems start to finish). [...]

That's essentially what the IM folk did.

It seems quite possible that future email systems will evolve out of
existing IM ones.

Essentially, IM can do pretty-much everything email can these days, but 
the reverse is not true at all.

IM also seems more evolvable than email is managing to be.

About all email has going for it these days is an open format and a
large existing user base.
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Re: override a property

[Robin Becker]

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Robin Becker a écrit :
> 
>> Is there a way to override a data property in the instance? Do I need 
>> to create another class with the property changed?
> 
> 
> Do you mean attributes or properties ?

I mean property here. My aim was to create an ObserverProperty class 
that would allow adding and subtracting of set/get observers. My current 
implementation works fine for properties on the class, but when I need 
to specialize an instance I find it's quite hard.

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Re: UI toolkits for Python

[Richie Hindle]

[Ken]
> Web interfaces are missing a lot more than this. Here are just a few  
> things that cannot be done with web-based interfaces (correct me  
> where I'm wrong):
> 
> 1) A real word processor.

http://www.writely.com/
http://www.goffice.com/

> 2) Keybindings in a web application

http://rememberthemilk.com/
Google Keys (but what happened to it?  It's disappeared!)

> 3) Drag and drop

http://www.walterzorn.com/dragdrop/dragdrop_e.htm

http://qooxdoo.oss.schlund.de/demo/release/public/test/user/Index.html
(pick "Drag and Drop N" from the dropdown on the right hand side of the top
bar)

> 4) Resizable windows (i.e. not the browser window) within the  
> application.

http://qooxdoo.oss.schlund.de/demo/release/public/test/user/Index.html
(pick "Window N" from the dropdown on the right hand side of the top bar)

http://www.bindows.net/ (click "Click for a quick DEMO")

> 5) Anything other than absolutely trivial graphical programs.

Not sure what you mean by this... Google maps?

> web interfaces are still basically forms that can contain  
> buttons, checkboxes, text fields, and a few other basic controls. I  
> wish it were otherwise.

It *is* otherwise.  You should follow the Ajaxian weblog here:
http://www.ajaxian.com/

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Richie Hindle
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Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry

[Tim Tyler]

In comp.lang.java.programmer Paul Rubin  wrote or 
quoted:
> Tim Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > Are there any examples of HTML email causing security problems - outside
> > of Microsoft's software?
> 
> There was a pretty good one that went something like
> 
>   Click this link to download latest security patch!
>http://www.mxx.com.>Microsoft Security Center
> 
> where "mxx" is "microsoft" with the letter "i" replaced by some
> exotic Unicode character that looks exactly like an ascii "i" in normal 
> screen fonts.  The attacker had of course registered that domain and
> put evil stuff there.

I didn't think unicode domain names existed.

It seems that they are in the pipeline:

``After much debate and many competing proposals, a system called 
  Internationalizing Domain Names in Applications (IDNA) was adopted as 
  the chosen standard, and is currently, as of 2005, in the process of 
  being rolled out.''

 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_names

It looks like the security issues are probably going to be dealt
with via technical fixes:

``On February 17, 2005, Mozilla developers announced that they would ship 
  their next versions of their software with IDN support still enabled, 
  but showing the punycode URLs instead, thus thwarting any attacks while 
  still allowing people to access websites on an IDN domain. This is a 
  change from the earlier plans to disable IDN entirely for the time 
  being.''

 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_names

Anyway, I'm inclined to suggest this is a DNS problem.  It would
apply to any format that allowed rendering of domain names using
the unicode character set they are intended to be displayed using.

Even without unicode, the "homograph attack" is still viable, due
to things like the "l"/"I" issue in many fonts - as pointed out on:

http://www.centr.org/docs/2005/02/homographs.html
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Re: Don't want to serialize a variable of object

[Duncan Booth]

Iyer, Prasad C wrote:

> How do I serialize the object color without serializing the x and
> somechar variables?
> Is there any modifier which prevents the variable from being serialized.
> 
See the pickle documentation. The example given in the documentation 
pickles a class while excluding one of its attributes.

http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/pickle-example.html

> Another question:
>  Is there a concept of private variables?

'private variables' can mean either of two things: hiding the variables to 
prevent accidental naming conflicts in subclasses, or security to prevent 
malicious manipulation of a class's internal state.

Python provides the former (to a certain extent) when you give an attribute 
a name prefixed with a double underscore, but makes no attempt to provide 
the latter. Some other languages (such as C++) make no attempt to provide 
the former and a completely inadequate attempt at the latter.

In other words: Python has a concept of private variables, but it is 
different than in some other languages, and if you google past threads you 
can find endless discussions on the pro's and con's of the Python approach.
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RE: Don't want to serialize a variable of object

[Iyer, Prasad C]

Thanks a lot.

Actually you are right I would be trying same thing now.
Writing my own custom serializable for the object.

But everyone else who face the same problem would come up with their own
Serializable code.

Can't we plug something into cpickle So that it discards some variable from 
being serializable. Similar to __data for private variables. But on second 
thought that would be too much of change that I am asking.

Anyway thanks a lot.

regards
prasad chandrasekaran










--- Cancer cures smoking

#-Original Message-
#From: Tarek Ziadé [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
#Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:01 PM
#To: Iyer, Prasad C
#Cc: python-list@python.org
#Subject: Re: Don't want to serialize a variable of object
#
#Iyer, Prasad C wrote:
#
#>Hi,
#>I got a class which I need to serialize, except for couple of variable.
#>i.e.
#>
#>import cPickle as p
#>class Color:
#>def __init__(self):
#>print "hello world"
#>self.x=10
#>self.somechar="this are the characters"
#>color=Color()
#>f=file('poem.txt', 'w')
#>p.dump(color, f)
#>f.close()
#>
#>How do I serialize the object color without serializing the x and
#>somechar variables?
#>Is there any modifier which prevents the variable from being serialized.
#>
#>
#You can create your own serialization process, by providing some kind of
#serialize() method
# in a base class that would dump part of the object.
#
#Let's say, the instance __dict__ dictionnary ?
#this serialize method can then remove the attributes that starts with '_v_'
#(that's what we do in Zope to avoid pickling some attribute)
#
#>
#>
#>
#>Another question:
#>  Is there a concept of private variables?
#>
#>
#That's a long discussion, you should look at the archives in the list.
#
#But anyway, all attributes that starts with '__' are considered private
#to the class.
#(ie: can't be reached by "instance.__attribute")
#
#even though you can find it if you dig into instance.__dict__
#
#
#Regards,
#
#Tarek


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make: circular dependency for Modules/signalmodule.o

[James Buchanan]

Hi group,

I'm preparing Python 2.4.2 for the upcoming Minix 3.x release, and I
have problems with make.  configure runs fine and creates the makefile,
but right at the end ends with an error about a circular dependency in
Modules/signalmodule.o.

I'm new to makefiles and makefile rules, so I can understand what this
means, but I don't know how I can fix this problem.  Looks like I'll
need to rewrite one or more makefile rules and during Minix builds add
some code to patch it up for those rules (as opposed to perhaps porting
a more capable `make` like gmake right now).

Can someone please help me make this problem go away?

Thanks!
James Buchanan

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Re: bug in os.system?

[Steve Holden]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What happens when you try it without the single quotes?
>  result = os.system("pythonbugtest.exe" "test")
> 
That would be equivalent to

   result = os.system("pythonbugtest.exetest")

which almost certainly won't do anything useful.

regards
  Steve
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Re: Don't want to serialize a variable of object

[Tarek Ziadé]

Iyer, Prasad C wrote:

>Hi,
>I got a class which I need to serialize, except for couple of variable.
>i.e.
>
>import cPickle as p
>class Color:
>def __init__(self):
>print "hello world"
>self.x=10
>self.somechar="this are the characters"
>color=Color()
>f=file('poem.txt', 'w')
>p.dump(color, f)
>f.close()
>
>How do I serialize the object color without serializing the x and
>somechar variables?
>Is there any modifier which prevents the variable from being serialized.
>  
>
You can create your own serialization process, by providing some kind of 
serialize() method
 in a base class that would dump part of the object.

Let's say, the instance __dict__ dictionnary ?
this serialize method can then remove the attributes that starts with '_v_'
(that's what we do in Zope to avoid pickling some attribute)

>
>
>
>Another question:
>   Is there a concept of private variables?
>  
>
That's a long discussion, you should look at the archives in the list.

But anyway, all attributes that starts with '__' are considered private 
to the class.
(ie: can't be reached by "instance.__attribute")

even though you can find it if you dig into instance.__dict__


Regards,

Tarek

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Re: Dynamic generation of doc-strings of dynamically generated classes

[Mikael Olofsson]

Alex Martelli wrote:
> The best way to make classes on the fly is generally to call the
> metaclass with suitable parameters (just like, the best way to make
> instances of any type is generally to call that type):
> 
> derived = type(base)('derived', (base,), {'__doc__': 'zipp'})

and George Sakkis said something similar.

Thanks, both of you. As I expected, there was a much better way than my 
clumsy way. Anyway, this took me to section 3.3.3 in the reference 
manual, and that will help me further.

Thanks again. Back to the keyboard!

/MiO
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Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ

[Peter T. Breuer]

In comp.os.linux.misc Richard Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here in comp.os.linux.misc,
> John Wingate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spake unto us, saying:

>>Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>> It seems to me that I was using 3.x. Maybe it was 3.1? I seem to
>>> remember an earlier major ... was there a 2.8 or 2.9?
>>
>>Dunno.  The first version I used was 3.4, in 1987.

> MS-DOS 3.3 was the most popular DOS release back in 1987/1988.  I don't
> recall there ever being a 3.4 release, though.

We were talking sunOS. At least I was!

Peter
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Re: bug in os.system?

[wjzrules]

What happens when you try it without the single quotes?
 result = os.system("pythonbugtest.exe" "test")

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Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ

[John Bokma]

Roedy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 18 Oct 2005 06:20:56 GMT, John Bokma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
> or quoted :
> 
>>
>>That an HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445:2000) and an HTML recommendation by 
>>w3c (4.01 for example) are two different things, and mixing them up by 
>>calling both standards is a bad thing.
> 
> Because ... what are the consequences?

If you mean if you are put in jail for 20 years, and tortured, none.

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